The First Desperate Move

[Edgy MD]

You've been given Terry's job --- what's the first thing you do in the face of this desperate tailspin? You more or less have a manager's authority, so you can't make big-time personnel decisions like transactions, but you can request promotions and demotions, and presumably any reasonable ones would be granted.

I guess you can offer what one move a GM should do next--- but again, please stay within the realm of reality.

Because damned if I know. I'm certainly an advocate of sticking to a plan despite the circumstances, but sometimes (now), circumstances can be so demoralizing, so as to undercut months of effort and untold millions worth of investment.

[metirish]

I call another team meeting.......nice one Terry


I call my managers in the minors and see who's hitting, get them up here and try win with them.....same for the pitching....but how many moves would that be really?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Say you're in jury duty. Say you forget to bring your book/iPad, and you're stuck in the courtroom all day. In the same way that someone with an average-to-below-average pulchritudinal score in your jury-duty group during this terrible, terribly-run jury trial might become really attractive over the course of a long, stultifying afternoon of waiting... that's the way all the ideas I've come up with intrigue me. They're mirages, born of boredom and bone-deep exhaustion.

Strategy-wise, I'd probably go with the ride-'em-until-they-start-to-fall-apart, multiple-innings-per-reliever plan... and forbid bunting (for the time being). But, yeah... I'm dry-- fandom- and dramatic-move-wise.

[Ceetar]

I don't know. something stupid. play everyone out of position to make them really think about defense? start pitchers in the outfield? Ike in centerfield? Thole at Shortstop. Make Valdespin catch.

Give an entire postgame meeting with circus music paying in the background? Spike the coffee with Bailey's. Ban batting practice and pregame drills for a day, have 'em stretch and get out there, no time to overthink and plan?

Ask Adam Rubin what to do?

[Edgy MD]

I guess I try to move (or if I'm manager, convince my GM to move) some dead wood at the back end of the roster --- Cedeno and Turner (hasn't really had much time anyhow). Tell me Cincy couldn't replace Cairo with one of them?

And then try to get some warm bodies in their place --- even if the talent's not there, surely there's somebody Wally thinks will inject some energy into a demoralized roster.

Maybe something crazy to make them realize how embarrassing this is getting. Everybody move over a position. Or better yet --- all outfielders are now infielders and vice versa. All you starters are relievers. Edgin, you start tomorrow.

[Frayed Knot]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: ... and forbid bunting (for the time being).

Now you see I would forbid them to field bunts for the time being, that way they'd at least avoid turning them into two-run doubles.
So the new standing order would be to allow any bunts to simply roll to a stop before picking them up - or, at worst, go down into a goaltender's 'butterfly' move in order to knock down and stop any hard bunts that are in danger of going into the outfield. But for crissakes don't try to pick them up and throw them!

[G-Fafif]

Get Duda back up here and put him at first for a couple of weeks. Davis hasn't earned a pass (and maybe needs to rest up from valley fever residual effects) and Duda, who is a horrible outfielder, should be given a stretch to see if he can hit consistently somewhere. Crank up his trade value or decide he's a keeper. Or give up on him. Too much in 2012 hinged on the assumption Duda would progress. Give him one more shot where he's allegedly comfortable.

Pick a position for Valdespin and leave him there for two weeks. Not against righties, but against everybody. Enough with Hairston in the starting lineup. Trade him and get something. If Valdespin is still more idiot than horse, consider him not in your plans. But give him an extended look to find his inner horse.

Let Thole catch Dickey, let out-of-shape Shoppach catch everybody else for a couple of weeks. Thole's earned nothing. Shoppach looks like nothing also, but he's the new nothing.

Rauch closes. Francisco can be the 8th inning guy. Parnell can come in last week.

This is a limited deck and there are few cards to play.

Oh, and make everybody run laps. Or do something they don't want to do, besides take the field, which it is not clear they enjoy doing.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Ditch Jason Bay (there's no point even pretending that he'll ever contribute anything meaningful) and spend the rest of 2012 trying to figure out what the 2013 outfield is going to be. I realize that at least one or two, and possibly three, of next year's starting outfielders may not currently be in the organization, but at least try to get a better sense of what the current internal options are. I don't know if it's at all reasonable to expect that the Mets will contend in 2013, but if they have any hopes, they'll need more than zero outfielders.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Ditch Jason Bay (there's no point even pretending that he'll ever contribute anything meaningful) and spend the rest of 2012 trying to figure out what the 2013 outfield is going to be. I realize that at least one or two, and possibly three, of next year's starting outfielders may not currently be in the organization, but at least try to get a better sense of what the current internal options are. I don't know if it's at all reasonable to expect that the Mets will contend in 2013, but if they have any hopes, they'll need more than zero outfielders.

problem with this imo is that it rewards Valdespin.

but yeah, get Duda back up here. is Kirk feeling better? bring up den Dekker too. why not?

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Bring up Wheeler and have him pitch the sixth-thru-ninth innings of Young's starts. That keeps Wheeler within an innings limit and gets you a look at him, and gets Young out before the shelling starts.

Get anything I can for Torres and Hairston - any reasonable offer accepted. Put Kirk back in CF and let him play every day. Valdespin plays OF every day as well. Bay and Baxter can platoon.

[Edgy MD]

I like G's thinking mostly.

G-Fafif wrote: Get Duda back up here and put him at first for a couple of weeks. Davis hasn't earned a pass (and maybe needs to rest up from valley fever residual effects) and Duda, who is a horrible outfielder, should be given a stretch to see if he can hit consistently somewhere. Crank up his trade value or decide he's a keeper. Or give up on him. Too much in 2012 hinged on the assumption Duda would progress. Give him one more shot where he's allegedly comfortable.

I like.

G-Fafif wrote: Pick a position for Valdespin and leave him there for two weeks. Not against righties, but against everybody. Enough with Hairston in the starting lineup. Trade him and get something. If Valdespin is still more idiot than horse, consider him not in your plans. But give him an extended look to find his inner horse.

I like this too.

G-Fafif wrote: Let Thole catch Dickey, let out-of-shape Shoppach catch everybody else for a couple of weeks. Thole's earned nothing. Shoppach looks like nothing also, but he's the new nothing.

I'm down with giving more time to Shoppie, but I don't see why he shouldn't get a crack at catching Dickey also. I think part of his potential value is that he has some history catching knucklers.

G-Fafif wrote: Rauch closes. Francisco can be the 8th inning guy. Parnell can come in last week.

I'm down with promoting Rauch, but I can't see why Francisco should even be the eighth-inning guy, or why we should ever use the term "eighth-inning guy" ever again. It's a tool of Satan's, that term.

[bmfc1]

Swan Swan H wrote: Get anything I can for Torres and Hairston - any reasonable offer accepted.

Yes. I'm still pissed that Sandy didn't do anything at the deadline, as if a bad offer was an insult and he'd rather lose Hairston for nothing than get something. That doesn't mean you take crap but you're going to lose these guys anyway so build up the farm; you never know who will blossom. I'd include Rauch in the trade-able list (he's going well right now so trade him fast in case he reverts back to his 1st-half form).

[bmfc1]

G-Fafif wrote: Pick a position for Valdespin and leave him there for two weeks. Not against righties, but against everybody. Enough with Hairston in the starting lineup. Trade him and get something. If Valdespin is still more idiot than horse, consider him not in your plans. But give him an extended look to find his inner horse. Let Thole catch Dickey, let out-of-shape Shoppach catch everybody else for a couple of weeks. Thole's earned nothing. Shoppach looks like nothing also, but he's the new nothing.

I'd love to see JV at 2B. JV seems to be a little "lacking in baseball instincts" so I'd rather see him at 2B, where he has people behind him, then in the the OF. We know what Murphy can do.

I'm for anything that decreases Thole's playing time.

[Edgy MD]

I don't see the wisdom in dumping Torres as he's not being pushed in centerfield by anybody.

As for "you never know who will blossom," I agree, but you pay folks a good amount of money to bring professionally formed opinions to their guesswork. And if their opinions were that nobody was being offered that was likely to bring more to the team than even Hairston was, I can accept that.

Until we have actual names of who was being offered, we have nothing. No time for looking back now. This isn't that thread.

[Ceetar]

Gotta play Kelly during Dickey starts too, that's part of evaluating if he's goingto be viable next year. because just like with the other free-agents but maybe re-sign guys Cedeno, Rauch?, Hairston, etc you've got all of October and a week after the WS as an exclusive window.

Figure Frank Frank is the suckiest guy that's here next year that needs 'fixing'. granted you can just release him, but you're doing that in favor of like..Acosta or other random guys we'll bring in to fail next year. So let him close. Subject him to the hateful boos of Mets fans so he's enamored to it next year.

Or just pitch Parnell more.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: I don't see the wisdom in dumping Torres as he's not being pushed in centerfield by anybody.

Since Kirk went down and Torres hasn't been 'pushed' I feel like he's gone from league average to replacement level again. (again, everyone else is still worse. Kirk hasn't played in three weeks. den Dekker's hot again right?.. hmm..)

I worry a little about bringing up guys like dD though. gives other teams video to look at him next year and they might get the book on him earlier. Seems like what happened with Nieuwenhuis. If he's only going to be a 2 month flash in the pan jolt, rather it happen mid-season?

[MFS62]

Torres isn't a long term solution to center, but why not find out if Valdespin can be? Casey Stengel recognized that the skills of a shortstop (speed, quickness, and arm) are similar to those needed to play center. He turned a string of so-so shortstops (who could hit) into a series of good or good+ center fielders. He did it with Mantle, Murcer, Tresh and Kubek. The formula was used in the reverse when Centerfielder Mickey Stanley was moved to shortstop from center by Detroit in a World Series. Why not give it a try?

As for Kelly, ride that pony to see what he can do once he scrapes the rust off his game. He too may not be a very long term solution, but I hope he isn't just a Schop-gap measure, either.

I also like the idea of Bringing back Duda and putting him in left field. I still don't know why Bay wasn't played in right instead of left, because he does have the arm to play right.

As for the pitching, as others have said if a reliever is pitching well, keep him in the game.

Of course, there have been things done by managers in the past to shake things up without commiting a felony. They have included skipping an occasional batting practice to give the team a rest. But in the case of the Mets, I'd use that time for extra fielding practice.
Annother thing that's been done (as per Jim Brosnam's book) was to post a lineup in position numerical order - pitcher first, catcher second, etc. As the manager (Solly Hemus?) said, "we couldn't do any worse".

Later

[Vic Sage]

Play the kids, plus whatever vets are signed for next year. You know what? that includes Bay. At least he works hard and doesn't make stupid mental errors. He catches the ball, throws to the right base, runs out grounders, knows when and how to steal a base. I don't know if he'll ever hit again, but guess what ... we've got $17m going to him next season, so lets see if he can. Bat him 7th. At least it will demonstrate that we're committed to sound fundamental mistake-free and attitude-free baseball, which is what Terry is ostensibly about.

Play Valdespin (all `tude, but no gude) in CF; i don't think he can hit enough to be a corner OFer so lets see if he can play CF (like they began to do with him in the minors). Frankly, i think he's shiite, but certainly Torres is useless and Niewy and VDK are not ready. RF is good for Baxter for now. I've liked what i've seen from him so far. You can try and trade Hairston (we could have gotten more for him when i recommended this a month ago, but whatever).

IF? Trade Murphy. seriously. let Cedeno finish the season. Bring up whatever MI has been doing well in the minors to give them a reward, even if not much playing time. but some. AS for Ike, he came back a bit in the 2nd half, but never all the way back and has regressed again. Put him on the 60-day DL and let him come back fresh next year. Give Duda the ABs. I'd also rather see Cam Maron, no matter how raw, or one of our other catching prospects, than see another game appearance wasted on Shoppach.

Put Santana on the DL; he's done. if there's anything to be gotten from him, it'll have to be next year. Cut Hefner and bring up Wheeler and Mejia. Bullpen by committee, the way the baseball gods intended.

no bunting.

Sit any guy who fails to run out a grounder, throws to the wrong base, runs at the wrong time, mouths off, or otherwise displays a bad attitude.

pick lineups out of a hat.

fireworks nite every nite.

mandatory tailgating; nobody over the age of 21 admitted to the park sober.

live zither music

a fan contest where the winner gets to whack Mr. Met's melon with a polo mallet until it busts open like a pinata and bobbleheads fall out. the contest losers have to keep the bobbleheads.

disco demolition night

Bring Koosman back as a 5th starter. Hell, as the 3rd starter.

a dunking tank with Jeffy inside, wearing a tutu.

wait'll next year.

[Edgy MD]

In left field, we have Jason Bay. He can't hit but
never bats out of order, and on this team that's
no small thing. What's the use of having a real
humdinger if he never knows when he's batting?
I give you Jason Bay and there it is.

Murphy probably couldn't clear waivers, so trading options are few at this point.

[Vic Sage]

but what about the zither music?

[Edgy MD]

I'm not a zither guy, but live music of any sort is appealing and reasons to go to Citifield are running thin.

[Ceetar]

What's with this down on Ike stuff?

last 7 days OPS: 1.118
last 14 days OPS: .866
last 28 days OPS: .886
second half OPS: .858
August: .844
July: .794 (poor July really, only .257 OBP but 9 HR)

If anything he's been pretty consistent since his original slump. This is extremely valuable imo since the Mets seem very feast or famine sometimes. So guys that can sorta fake it even when they're not hitting that well can be extremely valuable. You'd like Ike to take more walks when he's scuffing a bit like in July, but hopefully that comes with experience.

My real knock is that he seems to me to press in some pressure spots. both fielding and at the plate. Tejada too. I'm hoping this is just an experience/youth thing.

[TransMonk]

I'm not a zither guy, but live music of any sort is appealing and reasons to go to Citifield are running thin.

Live at Citi Field:

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: So guys that can sorta fake it even when they're not hitting that well can be extremely valuable.

I'll say. If you don't count any of the outs Ike Davis made, he's probably the best hitter in the history of baseball.

[Vic Sage]

Ceetar wrote: What's with this down on Ike stuff? last 7 days OPS: 1.118 last 14 days OPS: .866 last 28 days OPS: .886 second half OPS: .858 August: .844 July: .794 (poor July really, only .257 OBP but 9 HR)

okay, didn't realize this; he's had an excellent month, so i take it back.
He's basically returned to form... a .260 power hitter who doesn't walk enough, and can't hit lefties or at CitiField. and streakier, apparently, than The Flash.
yippee.

[Edgy MD]

I'm not a zither guy, but live music of any sort is appealing and reasons to go to Citifield are running thin. Live at Citi Field:

When you're a Billy Joel tribute act, it might help your marketing if Billy Joel's name was bigger than B.B. King's.

[Ceetar]

I'd like to see Ike's lefty splits since July first actually.

[Fman99]

I tear down Citi Field and rebuild Shea. THAT'S HOW I ROLL.

[MFS62]

Fman99 wrote: I tear down Citi Field and rebuild Shea. THAT'S HOW I ROLL.

You always were the master of subtlety.
Later

[Lefty Specialist]

If we're going to do music, we need haunting Peruvian Flutes.

If I'm Terry, I begin drinking heavily.

Or I do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=PnIaqAsnSxU