Captain

[Edgy MD]

Interesting on last night's radio broadcast was Howard and Joshua were speaking of David Wright explicitly as captain. Specifically Howie, and when he caught himself saying it, paused very briefly, but rather than outright backtrack into a more political re-phrasing --- "captain-like," "captain candidate" --- he only modified it with something like, "He essentially has been in that role for at least two years or more." I'm paraphrasing there, but it was the sort of modifier that started out as an attempt to correct himself and ended up as doubling down.

So, with the 7 Line pushing this shirt ...



... and with Wright now the longest-serving Met, playing some of the best ball of his life, and still representing as the ever-cheery good citizen he has always been, the long-entertained question seems to be coming to a head, and sure hit the front burner last night. Howie was animated enough that you half expected him to say that it's kinda stupid that we have to pretend that he isn't the captain.

The only issue left to decide is whether the honor should come before pushing to sign Dudley to an extension, during, or after. Honoring him before securing him could certainly come across as a down payment of good will as the negotiations continue. It can also lead to the organization putting their own feet to the fire, as letting him walk or trading him becomes even more unpalatable if he takes off with a C on his jersey.

One would think they'd want to at least be on the same page before conferring such an honor, but based on clubhouse reports, and the way Terry speaks about him, his remarkable start, and the team's battling to defy predictions, the time may simply be ripe.

[Gwreck]

The only thing more ridiculous than the "captain" nonsense that comes out of the Bronx is the "captain" nonsense coming out of Queens regarding David Wright.

[Edgy MD]

Hey man, sorry. It's just a bubbling thing. I certainly concur if you mean to suggest that clamoring for the honor has become one more tired populist cause with which to hammer the allegedly tone-deaf management.

[Ceetar]

I've been beating this drum for years. It's only become that much more obvious. He's on his third GM and fourth manager.

[G-Fafif]

I'm pretty sure it was Marty Noble who told our little Amazin' Tuesday group in 2010 that the C had been offered to DW and he didn't want it. People and preferences change, but Marty's take was David didn't need/want that sort of designation even though he was the de facto Man by then already.

Nice shirt, though.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Team doesn't need a captain and Wright probably doesn't wanna be it anyway. Sure he'd say yes if they asked him but imagine the extra pressure it'll bring the next time he goes into one of those funks. No thunks!

[Edgy MD]

I agree that the team doesn't need one. I agree that it would unfortunately put more pressure on him. I do, however, think he wants it. (Though I'm certainly intrigued that he turned it down in 2010.)

I just think forces of inevitability are aligning. I'd be very surprised if he signs an extension and doesn't wake up with a C under his pastel pillow.

[Ceetar]

G-Fafif wrote: I'm pretty sure it was Marty Noble who told our little Amazin' Tuesday group in 2010 that the C had been offered to DW and he didn't want it. People and preferences change, but Marty's take was David didn't need/want that sort of designation even though he was the de facto Man by then already. Nice shirt, though.

Did he? The way I recall it (I wasn't at the Amazin' Tuesday event) Manuel didn't actually want to give him a C.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Team doesn't need a captain and Wright probably doesn't wanna be it anyway. Sure he'd say yes if they asked him but imagine the extra pressure it'll bring the next time he goes into one of those funks. No thunks!

Well, he's already the captain. actually giving him the C is just a way to celebrate it. Yeah, when he's having a funk or does something people don't like the talk radio will be all "But a captain can't behave like that!" but screw 'em, they're gonna say crap like that anyway. It's really just another way to market your star player. Obviously all the talking heads care about his championships, which is why the clearly not a captain captain across town gets very little crap, but you shouldn't cater to those people, cater to the fans that love Wright and don't mind another reason to celebrate him.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Gwreck wrote: The only thing more ridiculous than the "captain" nonsense that comes out of the Bronx is the "captain" nonsense coming out of Queens regarding David Wright.

ConCur. Am in aCCord I Couldn't give a flying [crossout]fuCk[/crossout] Coitus about the big C on someone's uniform Chest. Unless he gets his C by whining and pouting and exhibiting manipulative behavior to the point of having to be mollified because some other teammate got the C instead. Then he's on my shit list.

If Wright truly and honestly doesn't want the C designation, and this isn't just some bullshit act to get the C that he really wants without it appearing that he really wants the C, well then I'm for David Wright all the more.

[Edgy MD]

Wait, what's the potentially bullshit act? The dugout rhubarb?

(Because if hitting .408 and fielding like he hasn't in five years is a manipulative and pandering, well, pander to me, baby.)

[Benjamin Grimm]

Forget the "C" on the jersey; I can't imagine that he'd turn down the captaincy if it came with the right to wear a hat like this one during the game:

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Since he's not the one arguing calls, or bringing out the lineup, or taking over as manager if Terry's run, what does a "C" mean, practically speaking? Does he get to name the wildcards for clubhouse poker games during playoff games? Does he get to marry couples in the clubhouse, if necessary?

[Edgy MD]

What do you think it means? I think we all have an idea, related but different.

I think all good managers, when they get to a team, figure out who their surrogate between the lines and in the clubhouse is, and cultivates a relationship with that guy, so a gentle word or example from that player to his teammates --- whether it be about defensive positioning or about handing over your keys or whatev --- has the moral authority of the skipper as well as a peer, without the skipper necessarily having to ever get into anybody's bidness.

He not only figures that out, but he works on developing a younger player to grow into that role, inculcating that guy with his philosophy, and if the heavens align and both survive a half dozen years, maybe that player becomes his captain. The machine should by then run like clockwork behind the captain while the manager fills out the lineup card, eats sunflower seeds, and spends much of his time thinking about higher things, holier things, descending from his perch only to move an occasional piece across the board before returning to his exalted state. The surrogate guy doesn't have to wear the C, but that's what he be.

It goes right back to the beginning. Stengel had Hodges and tried to develop Rod Kanehl and then Hunt into the embodiment of his Stengelness (as he had so developed Yogi Berra a generation before, Mantle being a lost cause). Hodges had Charles and then Clendennon, as he developed Seaver. Torre tried to make a man out of Mazzili; Valentine made Alfonzo the walking reflection of the Valentine way. The end of the line for both Torre and Valentine meant the end of the line for their proteges.

Willie Randolph had never managed anywhere before the Mets, but I think he saw this as an important part of leading a team too, and he spent much of his first season indoctrinating Jose Reyes with all the knowledge and philosophical principles of his long career.

Like much of managing, it almost never works out. Seaver remained Gil Hodges' loyal marine, professional and courageous, but there were certainly reported times that his teammates found him disappointingly elitist or aloof rather than leading them from the metaphorical foxhole. Keith Hernandez was certainly the embodiment of Davy Johnson's well-oiled machine on the field, but where was he when it was time to tell Gooden and Strawberry that it was time go home, like Staub had done for him?

So yeah, I think there is something to the role if the manager and the player want there to be, but no, it doesn't need an officlal title. And yeah, else, it's just another marketing angle.

[ashie62]

Leave the Captain designations to hockey.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: Wait, what's the potentially bullshit act? The dugout rhubarb? (Because if hitting .408 and fielding like he hasn't in five years is a manipulative and pandering, well, pander to me, baby.)

David and Terry can do whatever they wanna do. All I was sayin' is that I don't give a flying fuck. Unless you can show me that Jason Bay's gonna hit 10 more HR's that he wouldn't otherwise hit if it weren't for the proposed C on DW's chest. Or that D's C is gonna knock a half a run a game off of No Nose Niese's ERA. Otherwise I file it with the same bullshit that's supposed to convince me that David Eckstein wants to win more than most every other ballplayer just because once upon a time, his bullshit parachute of a hit luckily landed where they weren't and that once upon a time happened to be in the World Series. It's an honor, no doubt, the C, but nonsense as far as effecting anything of consequence, is how I see it.

[Edgy MD]

If Wright truly and honestly doesn't want the C designation, and this isn't just some bullshit act to get the C that he really wants without it appearing that he really wants the C, well then I'm for David Wright all the more.

So, what was this about? The Noble report from 2010?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: If Wright truly and honestly doesn't want the C designation, and this isn't just some bullshit act to get the C that he really wants without it appearing that he really wants the C, well then I'm for David Wright all the more. So, what was this about? The Noble report from 2010?

I just threw that in there. Just in case. Covering all bases.

[Edgy MD]

Buddy Boy took time off of from the All-Star Game to call and encourage Dillon Gee.

Shucks.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Soupcan is my only captain.

[Edgy MD]

Soupcan is a dude, but he's taken much of this season off.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: So yeah, I think there is something to the role if the manager and the player want there to be, but no, it doesn't need an officlal title. And yeah, else, it's just another marketing angle.

Funny you should bring up the marketing angle. And granted I don't think I ever saw a 45Franco T-Shirt or jersey with a "C" on it, but I did hear some theories put out there that the Skanks officially made Jeter the Captain for the marketing aspect, so they could put out merchandise reflecting his being named "Captain".

And it should be pointed out that Jeter has never had a "C" on his jersey. I think the Mets and Reds are only organzations that do that hockey, and now football, tradition of putting the "C" on the jersey of the captain, and with Franco it was quite a while into his captaincy when some hockey loving teammates suggested it. And as far as I can tell, the Yankees have yet to put out an official piece of Jeter specific merchandise with a notification that he is in the Captain role (wouldn't shock me if an officially licensed shirt existed with Jeter among the famous Yankee Captains like Gehrig, Munson and Mattingly).

Not disagreeing with you, nor would it shock me if the Mets made a shirt akin to the above 7Line shirt after making Wright Captain, just saying that it would be the first time such a thing had happened in the New York market.

[Edgy MD]

Using a captaincy as a marketing angle does not necessarily mean authorizing official Captain merchandise.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

[Centerfield]

Did Carter ever have a C on his jersey? I remember Keith did, but as far as I remember, they were co-captains...

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Using a captaincy as a marketing angle does not necessarily mean authorizing official Captain merchandise.

in a sense they've already started that marketing angle with the coverage of Wright this season.

officially licensed merchandise gets mostly shared anyway, which is maybe why the Yankees never put forth much effort in that regard, since they already bitch about it.

[Centerfield]

Whatever happened to soupcan's "C"?

Was he stripped of the title?

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Centerfield wrote: Whatever happened to soupcan's "C"? Was he stripped of the title?

Edgy is fickle.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Did Carter ever have a C on his jersey? I remember Keith did, but as far as I remember, they were co-captains...

From UniWatch:

John Franco, Mets (now with the Astros): "C" worn on left front shoulder (the same placement Keith Hernandez used while captaining the Mets in 1987, although he and Gary Carter both went "C"-less when Carter was named co-captain in 1988).

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Oh, and Sammy Sosa, Mark Grace and other Cubs captains wore a 'C' on their sleeve.

[Edgy MD]