Possible 2012 Outfield

[metirish]

Mets' Jason Bay could move to center field in 2012, team up with Daniel Murphy, Lucas Duda in OF


BY ANDY MARTINO
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Wednesday, August 31st 2011, 9:51 AM

Imperfect circumstances call for creative solutions, and in recent weeks the Mets have kicked around many ideas for 2012. In that spirit, a well-placed front office source said it is "a possibility" that the Mets will move Jason Bay to center field next year. That remains far from likely, the source said, but its consideration is interesting in what it reveals about the Mets' view of three players: Bay, Daniel Murphy and Angel Pagan. Bay, signed to a four-year, $66 million contract before last season, has not displayed the power he once wielded in Pittsburgh and Boston. He was 0-for-4 in the Mets' 6-0 loss to Florida Tuesday night at Citi Field. But teammates and management continue to be impressed by Bay's leadership and positive clubhouse presence, and the Mets are searching for a way to make his career here work (although they will also likely try to gauge his trade value this winter). As a second team official observed, moving Bay to center would remove the onus to be a slugging outfielder. A center fielder who hits 12-15 homers, runs the bases well and posts a respectable on-base percentage is more acceptable than a corner outfielder who offers that production. As for Bay's defense, advanced metrics and scouts agree that he is a good left fielder - but the scouts say that center could be challenging for him. One metric, defensive runs saved, rates Bay as the National League's third-best left fielder, with two runs saved (Arizona's Gerardo Parra and St. Louis' Matt Holliday are ahead of him). A National League scout who has seen the Mets many times this year said, "He's a pretty good left fielder, but he might not have the speed for center, and that's a pretty big outfield in New York." Within the clubhouse, there was some enthusiasm for the idea. "Jason is our best outfielder," one player said. Bay said that he was willing to do whatever the team asked, but did not otherwise wish to comment on a hypothetical. To be clear: The Mets understand that this move would create a shaky defensive outfield. But they are searching for ways to help Bay, and to include Murphy's bat in the lineup. When Murphy suffered a season-ending knee injury while trying to turn a double play, team brass wondered if he needed another position. GM Sandy Alderson, stressing the need to find a home for Murphy's bat, said that he might move to the outfield. Obviously, Murphy cannot play center. Duda is expected to be in right. So if Murphy is an outfielder, he would be back in left, a position he tried and failed to play in 2009. And if Murphy is in left, Bay is either on another team, or in center. The scout was not enthusiastic about a Murphy-Bay-Duda outfield. "Oh my God," he said. Still, he endorsed the idea of again trying Murphy in left. "We all know Murphy can hit," the scout said. "So stick him in left and see what he can give you. There are a lot of bad (defensive) left fielders." It is also possible that Pagan will return. Although some in the new regime are profoundly unimpressed, Pagan has hit .330 in August after Tuesday night, offering a reminder of the talent that emerged in 2010. It is conceivable that the Mets would offer arbitration to Pagan and keep him in center, make Murphy the second baseman again, and either look to trade Bay or keep him in left. Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2011/08/31/2011-08-31_bay_at_center_of_1_met_plan.html#ixzz1WcJOQyQu

[seawolf17]

Let him try it out in Buffalo for a year first, then we'll think about it for 2013.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I suppose Bay's production would be a little more palatable from a center fielder. I think it would be even more palatable from somebody ten years younger and making 5 per cent of Jason Bay's salary.

In theory, I like that they're going to explore trading Bay, but in practice I can't imagine them getting anything back other than somebody else's overpaid player. (One of those change-of-scenery deals.) It's hard to see such a deal having too much upside, but I suppose it's possible.

[batmagadanleadoff]

But teammates and management continue to be impressed by Bay's leadership and positive clubhouse presence, and the Mets are searching for a way to make his career here work (although they will also likely try to gauge his trade value this winter). As a second team official observed, moving Bay to center would remove the onus to be a slugging outfielder. A center fielder who hits 12-15 homers, runs the bases well and posts a respectable on-base percentage is more acceptable than a corner outfielder who offers that production.

Leadership? Positive clubhouse presence? Who's running this team? Is my boy Jeffie overruling the GM again?

Perhaps the Mets could move Bay into the starting pitching rotation. Then there'd be no pressure on Bay to hit.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I keep closing my eyes to picture a Murphy-Bay-Duda outfield, but all I see in my mind is a Hieronymus Bosch painting, or Kathy Bates' hot tub scene in About Schmidt, or a gigantic diaper filled with "recycled" blue-and-orange curry.

[metirish]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I keep closing my eyes to picture a Murphy-Bay-Duda outfield, but all I see in my mind is a Hieronymus Bosch painting, or Kathy Bates' hot tub scene in About Schmidt, or a gigantic diaper filled with "recycled" blue-and-orange curry.

nothing to add to that.....

[Benjamin Grimm]

You know, maybe they would be better off trading Bay for a pitcher with an awful contract. A pitcher who will get $30 million or so over the next two years and will give you 100 bad innings per year. It's still wasted money, but at least it would free up an outfield spot. (This move only makes sense if there's a good enough outfielder ready to fill that spot.)

[DocTee]

Victor. Effin. Zambrano.

[DocTee]

Or Carlos.

Must. Get. Coffee.

[ashie62]

That could be a decent oufield offensively although it has a stopgap feel to it, for what I don't know.

Now, the over/under on collisions among the three? hmmmm.

[metirish]

DocTee wrote: Victor. Effin. Zambrano.

Zambrano

12:$18M, 13:$19.25M vesting player option


I was going to say Zito

12:$19M, 13:$20M, 14:$18M club option ($7M buyout)


Bay

12:$16M, 13:$16M, 14:$17M club option ($3M buyout)
2014 option guaranteed with 600 PAs in 2013 or 500 PAs in both 2012, 2013
full no-trade clause


good luck with all of that GM's..

crazy

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Victor. Effin. Zambrano. Zambrano 12:$18M, 13:$19.25M vesting player option I was going to say Zito 12:$19M, 13:$20M, 14:$18M club option ($7M buyout) Bay 12:$16M, 13:$16M, 14:$17M club option ($3M buyout) 2014 option guaranteed with 600 PAs in 2013 or 500 PAs in both 2012, 2013 full no-trade clause good luck with all of that GM's.. crazy

best option there is Zambrano (That's Carlos, presumably, not Victor) and simply prevent him vesting (what's the terms?) but I wouldn't take any of those guys. You've gotta find someone that's particularly better than Pelfrey or Gee and that'd you'd rather start. Unless you're pencilling this guy into the Cap's spot that Santana hopefully takes, if not early in 2012, somewhat there after.

[Frayed Knot]

Carlos Zambrano probably hits better than Bay at this point.

[metirish]

Terms

Zambrano receives 2013 player option if 1) he is first or second in 2011 Cy Young vote or if he finishes in top 4 in 2012 Cy Young vote and 2) he is healthy at end of 2012

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

The plus side to Zambrano: depending on whether Hairston was brought back, Ol' Ca-Rage-cas would immediately become the team's best righty PH.

[G-Fafif]

Though you'd be sacrificing something in the vaunted leadership and positive clubhouse presence department.

I wonder if that's Martinospeak for "I don't want to lose a good source."

I don't doubt Bay's good-guyness, but honestly, what is he leading them to: fourth place?

[metirish]

Yeah that stuff is over rated BS....Mike Jacobs was positive in the clubhouse too.

[Benjamin Grimm]

metirish wrote: Terms Zambrano receives 2013 player option if 1) he is first or second in 2011 Cy Young vote or if he finishes in top 4 in 2012 Cy Young vote and 2) he is healthy at end of 2012

Wow... if the Mets could trade Bay for Zambrano, I'd be inclined to do it. Bay is guaranteed $35 million. Zambrano is only guaranteed $18 million, and it would go up to $37.5 if Zambrano has a very strong 2012.

And if Zambrano sucks, you bump him to long relief and he's gone after one year. You still come out $17 million ahead.

I don't imagine the Cubs would do a straight-up swap, but maybe if the Mets threw in some cash.

[Lefty Specialist]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I keep closing my eyes to picture a Murphy-Bay-Duda outfield, but all I see in my mind is a Hieronymus Bosch painting, or Kathy Bates' hot tub scene in About Schmidt, or a gigantic diaper filled with "recycled" blue-and-orange curry.

Me, I see MC Escher drawings.

[smg58]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I keep closing my eyes to picture a Murphy-Bay-Duda outfield, but all I see in my mind is a Hieronymus Bosch painting, or Kathy Bates' hot tub scene in About Schmidt, or a gigantic diaper filled with "recycled" blue-and-orange curry.

This.

[smg58]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: You know, maybe they would be better off trading Bay for a pitcher with an awful contract. A pitcher who will get $30 million or so over the next two years and will give you 100 bad innings per year. It's still wasted money, but at least it would free up an outfield spot. (This move only makes sense if there's a good enough outfielder ready to fill that spot.)

Depends on how you feel about F-Mart or Nick Evans (or a platoon of them), or what you think Pelfrey could bring back in a trade.

I'd take Zambrano for Bay, simply because 2013 is the ETA for a lot of pitching talent and we'd have no bad commitments at that point.

But I think the fact that Pagan has been a better hitter than Bay by a comfortable margin, struggles and all, before you even consider what this would do to the Mets' defense, is more than enough reason not to take the Bay in center rumor too seriously.

[TransMonk]

Andy Martino wrote: A center fielder who hits 12-15 homers, runs the bases well and posts a respectable on-base percentage is more acceptable than a corner outfielder who offers that production.

I hate this line of thinking. A centerfielder who can play centerfield is more acceptable than a corner outfielder who cannot.

Offensive goals from your outfield should be cumulative, not based on where the guys play defense. Inversely, you should not be considered an asset at any defensive position based on what your offensive stat line reads.

[Guest attgig]

no way cubs take on bay's salary for Z. they'd be better just dfa'ing him, and paying him for nothing. If they were taking Bay, I think they'd rather try to get rid of Soriano's contract. That I can see happening, but no way we touch him. his only tool is power, and that would disappear in citifield.

trading bay would require a zito-ish contract, though I don't see sf eager to trade with us again.

How about trading Bay for....
yeah, i got nothing.

[Chad ochoseis]

Carlos Zambrano probably hits better than Bay at this point.

Bay's OPS as a Met: .697

Zambrano's OPS, same period: .682.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Rumors today say the Mets are considering... ENDY CHAVEZ as a possible fourth outfielder for 2012.

[Guest attgig]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Rumors today say the Mets are considering... ENDY CHAVEZ as a possible fourth outfielder for 2012.

they're lowering the walls just in time.

[Edgy MD]

TransMonk wrote: Andy Martino wrote: A center fielder who hits 12-15 homers, runs the bases well and posts a respectable on-base percentage is more acceptable than a corner outfielder who offers that production. I hate this line of thinking. A centerfielder who can play centerfield is more acceptable than a corner outfielder who cannot. Offensive goals from your outfield should be cumulative, not based on where the guys play defense. Inversely, you should not be considered an asset at any defensive position based on what your offensive stat line reads.

Ah, c'mon, man.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Edgy posts more photos of shirtless Mets than everyone else combined.

[Edgy MD]

I came back in today just to get my skin shots off the hard drive.

[ashie62]

Oh the humanity.