Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltran)

[Guest Edgy DC]

Pelfrey needs to shut up and pitch. The one who can save Carlos (who could have saved Carlos already) is the one in the mirror, Mike.

Seriously, I hate when folks whine that their team should be acquiring better players at the deadline. They acquired you. Make them look good for it. Anyhow, Pelf and Collins are rhetorically sparring to Mike F. Puma here about poormouthing, and it's not hard to get the idea here (unless you're Mike) that Pelfrey's Met life is on the line.

Collins warns Mets before win over Reds Mets Blog Mets on Twitter By MIKE F. PUMA CINCINNATI -- Subliminal messages -- the same kind manager Terry Collins says have no place in the Mets' universe -- are starting to permeate the clubhouse walls. Negative vibes hit Mike Pelfrey just about every time he hears another trade rumor about Carlos Beltran, who will likely be dealt before Sunday's non-waiver deadline. "I understand that if you want to get something back for him you have to trade him," Pelfrey told The Post before the Mets beat the Reds 4-2 last night. "But in the same sense I would think if we ended up getting rid of him, the front office's view is that we don't have a chance, because he gives us our best chance to win. If he's not here, then they felt we can't rebound from where we're at." The Mets (51-51) desperately want to believe they are alive. Last night they received 6 2/3 strong innings from R.A. Dickey and a four-run outburst in the seventh to snap a two-game skid. Pelfrey's pessimism -- or is it pragmatism? -- is exactly the kind of talk Collins doesn't want to hear. The manager conducted his pre-game chat with the media several minutes after Pelfrey made that comment, unknown to Collins, and was asked what kind of chatter in the clubhouse would alarm him in the aftermath of a Beltran trade. "You're going to hear guys say, 'The front office is giving up on us,' or 'We don't have a chance now' or 'We didn't get much for him,' " Collins said. Then he offered a warning shot: "We've got guys that are playing for their jobs, too. The minute they give up and quit, they won't be here next year. (OUCH, MIKE!) I want the guys to play 162 [games] and play hard." Pelfrey said there are too many professionals in the clubhouse for the Mets, who began last night's play 8� games behind the Braves in the wild-card race, to give up. But he also has been with the team long enough to question the organization's mentality around the trade deadline. "In the past we've kind of been close, and moves are kind of made at the deadline where guys are kind of like 'We could have used this, we could have used that and been right there,' " Pelfrey said. "It hasn't happened a couple of times, and I know it's kind of gotten to some guys." Pelfrey wants the best for Beltran. "For his sake, I hope he goes wherever he goes and wins it all," Pelfrey said. Beltran played a supporting role last night, with a sacrifice fly in the seventh that accounted for the Mets' first run. Daniel Murphy's 2-for-5 performance that included a two-run double in the seventh fueled the Mets' 11-hit attack. Dickey (5-8) allowed two earned runs on eight hits with seven strikeouts and one walk to record his first victory since June 28. Jason Isringhausen loaded the bases in the ninth before striking out Brandon Phillips to end it and earn career save No. 296. Dickey said his faith in Isringhausen never wavered. "I believe in the old man," Dickey said. "He has a lot of tricks up his sleeve." Collins, as much as anybody, would miss Beltran. But the manager says it's his job to remind the players they can still be successful without their All-Star right fielder. "I want to see how they react to the whole situation," Collins said. "What the mood in the clubhouse will be, what the conversations are about and then have a feel for it, and if it's stuff I don't like and it needs to be addressed, certainly address it immediately."

[Ceetar]

Pelf needs to realize this year is not last year. different FO, etc.

But what it boils down to is that Alderson himself said it'd be a white flag if they traded Beltran, and cited the last week or so, where the Mets went 5-6. Had they gone 8-3 they'd be 4 losses back of the Braves and maybe Beltran wouldn't be going anywhere. So if the FO appears to 'give up' on them, it's because they basically deserved it.

[Benjamin Grimm]

It occurred to me a few days ago that it's quite possible that Mike Pelfrey will be non-tendered this offseason.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: It occurred to me a few days ago that it's quite possible that Mike Pelfrey will be non-tendered this offseason.

It's been a common sentiment for a while now. Personally I doubt it, but either him or Dickey are probably the clear 'upgrade' targets if they're going to go after a good pitcher.

[Guest Edgy DC]

If they don't want him, he's probably got trade value, no?

[bmfc1]

Pelfrey should just STFU.

"But in the same sense I would think if we ended up getting rid of him, the front office's view is that we don't have a chance...."

The only time the Mets "don't have a chance" is when he pitches.

[TransMonk]

quoting Terry Collins, Mike Puma wrote: "We've got guys that are playing for their jobs, too. The minute they give up and quit, they won't be here next year. I want the guys to play 162 [games] and play hard."

I love this quote. Nice one, Terry!

I'm getting a little sick of Pelf. It's bad enough that he has been the shittiest starter we have this year. He doesn't need to be the whiniest as well.

[seawolf17]

I've been banging the "trade Pelf" drum for a while now.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Tracky's report in the Snooze this morning expressed the same sentiment but didn't identify the poormouthers. He presented disappointment at no reinforcements leading to poor second-half play last year as fact. I guess in some ways getting Pelfrey straightened out is a test of Terry's leadership in itself, but if it fails it fails.

What Pelfrey probably meant to say was "Let's trade Beltran to the Pirates and become Pirates fans."

[Ceetar]

even Wright questioned the FO moves last August. I would hope the players realize this year is pretty different.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't know if it's true or not, but I've read a few reports that said that there is zero interest among other teams in trading for Mike Pelfrey.

The fear, I assume, is that his arbitration award is going to significantly higher than his value.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't know if it's true or not, but I've read a few reports that said that there is zero interest among other teams in trading for Mike Pelfrey. The fear, I assume, is that his arbitration award is going to significantly higher than his value.

It is Boras, but I'd find it hard to believe, unless Pelfrey doesn't allow another run this season, that an abitrator would grant him a raise off this season. $4 mill doesn't really seem like a ton for a starter like Pelfrey.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

One of the things about Pelfrey is that if he weren't on the Mets he'd be the kind of pitcher we'd prolly look to take a chance on. He looks like a change-of-scenery guy or maybe even a change-of-role guy.

It's not unimaginable that Pelfrey becomes, for example, the best closer in Arizona Diamondbacks history.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I agree. He's strong. He's intimidatingly large and athletic. He's got a history of health. He throws 96. He's got sink. There's probably a pitching coach or manager or pitcher or shrink or woman or man out there that can help him turn those ingredients into a recipe for a tasty stew of success.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: I agree. He's strong. He's intimidatingly large and athletic. He's got a history of health. He throws 96. He's got sink. There's probably a pitching coach or manager or pitcher or shrink or woman or man out there that can help him turn those ingredients into a recipe for a tasty stew of success.

I'd rather keep the talent and get a new pitching coach.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'm not advocating a trade. Nor am I suggesting that the person or persons to turn him around are or aren't or the job. I'm saying that he's not a lost cause. And I don't think those in the market would necessarily believe that he is.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't think he's a lost cause either. But if he goes through arbitration, he may end up getting more money than teams want to pay him. Once he's non-tendered (if such a thing does in fact come to pass) I'm sure there will be a bunch of teams interested in picking him up. Without salary as part of the consideration, he's certainly worth keeping.

[TransMonk]

I would not go as far as saying he is a lost cause. But, I think I've stopped thinking that he will eventually be something that he's clearly not.

I don't think he'll ever be able to be consistently relied upon as a top of the rotation stater. He's a poor man's Steve Trachsel.

[seawolf17]

TransMonk wrote: I would not go as far as saying he is a lost cause. But, I think I've stopped thinking that he will eventually be something that he's clearly not. I don't think he'll ever be able to be consistently relied upon as a top of the rotation stater. He's a poor man's Steve Trachsel.

And a head case, too. Let him be someone else's problem.

[Guest attgig]

Ceetar wrote: So if the FO appears to 'give up' on them, it's because they basically deserved it.

my sentiments exactly.

[Guest attgig]

good writeup of pelf's value:
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2011/7/19/2282732/the-merits-of-trading-pelfrey

The article projects 5-6 mil for next year, which would be paying for his WAR - even dollars. not over pay or under pay. I worry about the value of his contract. the only thing he really has going for himself if it goes down to an arbi hearing is the innings pitched. he's on pace for 200 ip, and has hit 200 a couple times already...and that alone may bring that over 6 mil.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Decision for another day. Today they see if there are buyers for him.

[ashie62]

TransMonk wrote: I would not go as far as saying he is a lost cause. But, I think I've stopped thinking that he will eventually be something that he's clearly not. I don't think he'll ever be able to be consistently relied upon as a top of the rotation stater. He's a poor man's Steve Trachsel.

Pelfrey reminds of Heilman..1/3 success 1/3 Failure 1/3 Aggravation...

[batmagadanleadoff]

So how many modern pitchers can you think of that struggled while pitching regularly for about five seasons, before becoming very successful? Sandy Koufax is the obvious example. Mike Scott's another. Any others?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Lots of relief pitchers. I'd guess most guys though have a mix of success and failure. Pelfrey's 2010 was a step ahead, 11 a step back.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

TransMonk wrote: He's a poor man's Steve Trachsel.

This might be the most quietly damning thing I've ever read about any Met ever. (It's like saying, "You don't want to shop there-- that's the bad K-Mart.")

[TransMonk]

Hey now...that's not really what I meant. I say Trachsel was an important part of the 2006 Mets.

He wasn't going to be the best pitcher out there, but you knew that he was going to take the ball every fifth day and keep a very good offense in the game.

FWIW, Trachsel's stats in his 6 year Mets career are better than Pelfrey's in his 6 years.

[metsmarathon]

for what it's worth, pelfrey's list of similary pitchers through age 26 includes such names as todd stottlemyre, jason marquis, jason schmidt, pat hentgen, and john lackey.

not necessarily world beaters, but some solid, if continually maddening, contributors.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Trachs, of course, gave the Mets his six peak years, such as they were.

Nice list. Maybe Pelf should change his first name to Jason.

[metirish]

Saturday's news reports:

� Mike Pelfrey tells Mike Puma in the Post: "It's unrealistic for anybody at the end of last year to come in and say, 'The Mets, this is a one-year thing, next year we're going to win it all.' It's unrealistic."

Puma then quoted an anonymous teammate saying: "He's cutting his own throat. What's his record, six and nine? He's supposed to be the ace of the (bleeping) staff. Why don't you go and win 12 or 13 games?"

Pelfrey added: "The way this year has gone, (the fans) probably don't want me back. ... This organization is headed in the right direction. The front office has done a lot of smart things, and in the end this organization is going to have a chance to be in the playoffs every year."


http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/31963/mets-morning-briefing-8-12-11-2