Who's at Second (2012)?

[bmfc1]

Any thoughts on the Mets starting 2B for '12? We know that it won't be Brad Emaus. Beyond that, assume that Ike is back at 1B and Jose is back at SS. Turner? From Amazin' Avenue:

Through 6/1: .320/.364/.470 in 107 plate appearances (.349 BABIP) After 6/1: .246/.319/.298 in 192 plate appearances (.284 BABIP)

http://www.amazinavenue.com/2011/7/26/2294015/justin-turner-mets-is-probably-not-a-starter

Murphy? Boy can he "rake" but boy is he a knucklehead. As a fielder, he's a good DH.

AA says that Duda should play 1B the rest of the season so Murphy can get experience at 2B. Do you agree that Murphy should move to 2B to prepare for 2012?

[TransMonk]

I think it depends a little on who's playing SS. There's a possibility you can throw Tejada in the mix as well.

Murphy gives us the best offense at second (especially against righties), but I think we will still see several players get the chance to play 2B in 2012.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think they start with a Turner/Murphy mix. Certainly they've both played well enough to earn that much.

Where they finish is another story.

I disagree about Murphy being a knucklehead or purely a DH. He's missing a lot but it's not like he brings nothing to the field.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: I think they start with a Turner/Murphy mix. Certainly they've both played well enough to earn that much. Where they finish is another story. I disagree about Murphy being a knucklehead or purely a DH. He's missing a lot but it's not like he brings nothing to the field.

I think Murphy would benefit from one position, as much as his versatility has been valuable this year given the injuries, I think he'd make a couple less mistakes if he could get a little more repetition at one place. I like his range and his aggressiveness.

If the season ended right now I agree with AA that it should be Murphy, but the last two months will be very telling.

Turner .326/.408/.372 (.780) over the last two weeks. He played with bruised and battered thumbs. I don't think he's "clearly not a starter"

I don't think the Mets go outside the organization looking for a 2Bman though.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Maybe we see Reese Havens finally.

I like the way Tyrna plays and Muffy, but not sure either should be everydayers.

Too early to say I think.

[bmfc1]

Good point Ceetar about Turner's thumb injury. I wish he'd stop questioning the bad calls--the umps aren't going to correct their calls and they don't like it when a rookie is demonstrative (Ike is guilty of this, too).

I hope that being at one position will help Murphy but when he's in the field, I don't see "baseball smarts" like we often saw with Tejada (FAFIF has a good take on Murphy today).

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think he benefits more from moving about, and not living under the challenge of refining himself to master a position under a critical spotlight. Moving about allows him to focus on his hitting, and manage his fielding with a combination of hustle, determination, fear of reduced playing time, and the liberal use of late-inning replacements.

In my vision of 2012, he's getting 45% of the starts at second and 20-25% at first, third, and left.

But I bet I could show you a pretty nice highlight reel of ten find Murphy plays just from this month --- including shots of him at first, second, and third.

[metsmarathon]

the good thing about murphy's knuckleheadedness is that it's seemingly borne out of trying really really hard.

i think that he could be pretty ok given a more full-time assignment to second base, but we'd probably be better off with a murphy turner platoon for next year, with options in the minors.

[seawolf17]

[Guest Edgy DC]

As the personal sponsor of Jordany's development, I suggest you look more toward 2013 for his ascendency. For one, you may think Murphy is a knucklehead, but JV has out-errored him 28-9.

Really, I think this team has been so forced to play flawless in order to win, I don't think we appreciate how cleanly they'd been bringing it most of the summer. I count Murphy in there also.

[Theoldmole]

There has been an instance of a reserve player -- never a regular at any position -- winning a batting title. Billy Goodman of the Red Sox in 1950, with .354.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

It's the totality of Muffy's fuckups that makes him so special. He makes dumb baserunning decisions in addition to his many fielding gaffes, not all of which result in errors.

My memory of specifics is shot but there were 3 or 4 games early this year that he singlehandedly cost us with one dumb play or another. Am I right?

I love that goofy bastard.

[Frayed Knot]

Hell, in the last two games alone he's:
- dropped one foul pop-up and over-ran another
- cut off a throw that probably nails a runner at the plate
- tried advancing to 3rd on a come-backer

... and gone 4-for-8 w/2 doubles and 2 RBIs

[Guest Edgy DC]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: It's the totality of Muffy's fuckups that makes him so special. He makes dumb baserunning decisions in addition to his many fielding gaffes, not all of which result in errors. My memory of specifics is shot but there were 3 or 4 games early this year that he singlehandedly cost us with one dumb play or another. Am I right? I love that goofy bastard.

What's coming back at me is the caught stealing at third in the midst of the 5-13 start. They got swept in a doubleheader on Friday, had a rainout on Saturday, and were in the process of getting swept Sunday with the Mets down 3-0 in the sixth. Murph led off the inning with a double and was promptly thrown out stealign third. Got his head ripped off in the dugout by Collins.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ATL/ATL201104162.shtml

That Collins subsequently came to rely on him so much this season is to his credit. I'm afraid Manuel would have dealt with the situation by pretending Murphy didn't exist.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Hard to see Murphy hit the ball hard time after time after time the way he is and think the Mets will be in the market for a scondbaseman next year. I mean, maybe he ends up traded or in left or something, but right now, between Murphy and Turner, the Mets have more secondbaseman than most teams. Throw Tejada and the minor league Mets into the mix, and we are spoiled for choice.

[TransMonk]

Always better to have too many options than not enough.

[MFS62]

metsmarathon wrote: the good thing about murphy's knuckleheadedness is that it's seemingly borne out of trying really really hard.

Tim McCarver calls those "errors of enthusiasm".

I have always like Murphy's approach to hitting. When I first heard the "not enough power to play a corner infield position" I reminded folks that's what they said about Wade Boggs, too. Mole mentioned Billy Goodman, another example of a guy with no position, who could hit. But IIRC, the year he won the batting title, he mostly played all the infield positions.

Aslo- Most of Valdespin's errors have come as a shortstop. I think those might drop significantly if he were moved to second. But 2013 seems about right for his first major league game.

Later

[Farmer Ted]

Turner.

[Guest attgig]

murph has hit too well not to deserve a spot. they may try a platoon, but i just see turner becoming the bench guy.

[smg58]

According to the Fielding Bible, Murphy has been exactly average at third, above average at first (especially on bunts), and below average at second (the big issue being turning two). He has turned some routine plays into misadventures, but his overall defense is sound, and I think most people who follow the Mets can see that. And he's proving that his bat can play at this level.

The question remains, can he play second base well enough? I do think that's a question the Mets should try to answer this season.

He's welcome to prove me wrong, but my current impression of Turner is that he's a fifth infielder on a winning team.

I think Tejada's bat needs to develop further before I'd feel comfortable starting him.

[Guest Edgy DC]

You can kind of platoon Turner and Duda down the stretch, with Murphy playing second against righties and first against lefties.

[ashie62]

When Sandy sat in the booth a couple of weeks ago he spoke highly of Turner..Not to trade him I'd imagine.

[Vic Sage]

When I first heard the "not enough power to play a corner infield position" I reminded folks that's what they said about Wade Boggs, too.

yeah, but Boggs came up and immediately established himself, with an OB% consistently over .400. You do that, you can play a corner. hell, you can play anywhere.

The problem for Murphy isn't a lack of "power" (he's got power, just not citified HR power, which few have). His problem has been, until the last 2 months, a lack of consistent production of a level high enough for the positions he can reasonably handle (1b/3b). Those positions are also capably manned in NY by Wright & Davis. So the question is, if he stays with the Mets, is he a supersub, or is he a starting 2bman? I would think the only way to know is to PLAY him at 2b everyday and live with the consequences until you've made that determination. If his recent production represents a new and consistent level of production, then he's Jeff Kent/Dan Uggla, with fewer HRs but higher BA and a robust overall OPS, and so you live with the glove. But if he turns back into a pumpkin and reverts to a LHed Tim Teufel, then maybe he's really a UT guy. Which is not a bad thing to have either.

[Guest attgig]

if we're seriously thinking about murphy for 2b next year, he should start playing there every day now. I don't think he had enough time to get himself readjusted after having a season ending injury playing 2b last year.

the only problem is, we're on a good stretch, and it seems like they want to see how well we can do this year (ie, maybe catch up to the braves). if that's the case, murphy's staying put at 1b.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Not if they think they can make a better run by putting Duda there some days.

[Farmer Ted]

Would it be easier to convert Murph to RF?

[Guest attgig]

Farmer Ted wrote: Would it be easier to convert Murph to RF?

he was horrible when he was in LF. I do NOT want to see him in the OF ever again. never ever.

[bmfc1]

Keith just said that Murphy is not a 2B and in the off-season has to "work on his corner OF positions... work hard."

[Guest attgig]

hah. exactly what i didn't want....

[Guest Edgy DC]

Old Keith seems to believe in that positional DNA shit.

Young Keith used to say that leftfield was his favorite positiion.