Madoff's Curveball" by Jeffrey Toobin & other Wilpon stories

[Gwreck]

This is really very simple, and it indeed appears that Cerrone has reported incorrectly. Check out the key difference in the verbs:

Cerrone's story says that Megdal believes the Mets don't like Megdal's reporting.
Megdal's editor says the Mets said they don't like Megdal's reporting.

Either way, the Mets are morons for doing this, particularly after they already trashed Megdal publicly. There is no way they come out looking anything but petty.

[Edgy MD]

I understand that distinction. And Cerrone reviewed it, apologized, and rephrased. It's point worth making but no big whoop and when you publicly unload on the guy with seven straight attacking tweets, you don't exactly come across as the pro's pro you're claiming to be.

[metirish]

Cerrone came across like a dick with his " did YOU talk to Jay himself?", " oh it was your agent and you take his word on that?"..paraphrasing there but come the fuck on right there.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Cerrone came across like a dick with his " did YOU talk to Jay himself?", " oh it was your agent and you take his word on that?"..paraphrasing there but come the fuck on right there.

Well that's what makes his wording correct. "Megdal believes" because it's not a first hand report.

[Edgy MD]

It wasn't his agent but his editor. (If Megdal had an agent, I'd be a touch jealous.) I didn't read necessarily sarcasm in Cerrone, just clarifying --- limited to 140 characters in a public forum. And he made the corrections.

[metirish]

editor, ok , still a dick .

[MFS62]

Sports reporter Larry Merchant worked for a newspaper in Philadelphia.
When he was fired (for being critical of local teams) the back page (sports) headline was:
"Merchant Put on Waivers".

Later

[stevejrogers]

Whistleblower is saying that the Mets knew exactly what Madoff was, and chose to do nothing about it. Despite having her looking over the books. http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/null/2012/02/5234058/whistleblower-returns-noreen-harrington-once-star-witness-spitzer-crusa

[Edgy MD]

"You don't get it, do you? This is a privilege. You don't get to ask questions.�

This tack has has always worked for me with the chicks.

[metirish]

Interesting, she would seem to be credible.

[Edgy MD]

I just love the account of the patronizing backslapping dude-on-dude environment she must swim in every day, making fools out of a bunch of jockstraps.

Which is to say, yeah, she could prove very damaging.

[Ceetar]

again murky financial stuff I barely understand, but it sounds like she's attesting that they should have known that it was crooked. (And didn't the court decide that Picard must prove that they _did_ know, not they should have known?) She infers that they didn't want to do the due diligence in investigating it.

It's easy to say in hindsight, 9 years later, "I knew that guy was crooked! I told you so!"

[metsmarathon]

no, she's saying "i told thm back then that it was crooked, and likely a big scam, and they kept pouring more money into it"

that's pretty fucking damning.

[Ceetar]

metsmarathon wrote: no, she's saying "i told thm back then that it was crooked, and likely a big scam, and they kept pouring more money into it" that's pretty fucking damning.

What's a "feeder fund"? And was that testimony that she discovered that back then, or that's what it turned out to be?

Because the lawsuit isn't about this Merkin guy, and she never really got to investigate/meet Madoff.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Banner day banner Jay Horwitz bans Noreen Harrington from participating in the Mets upcoming Banner Day. See link, below.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: metsmarathon wrote: no, she's saying "i told thm back then that it was crooked, and likely a big scam, and they kept pouring more money into it" that's pretty fucking damning. What's a "feeder fund"? And was that testimony that she discovered that back then, or that's what it turned out to be? Because the lawsuit isn't about this Merkin guy, and she never really got to investigate/meet Madoff.

That's because who the fuck is Noreen Harrington to get to ask any questions?

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ceetar wrote: metsmarathon wrote: no, she's saying "i told thm back then that it was crooked, and likely a big scam, and they kept pouring more money into it" that's pretty fucking damning. What's a "feeder fund"? And was that testimony that she discovered that back then, or that's what it turned out to be? Because the lawsuit isn't about this Merkin guy, and she never really got to investigate/meet Madoff. That's because who the fuck is Noreen Harrington to get to ask any questions?

irrelevant of course, since Picard has to prove they asked said question and got a "we're cheating" response. But again, is there a difference between hearing it from Merkin and not Madoff?

[Edgy MD]

It's a lot of things. But it's not irrelevant.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: It's a lot of things. But it's not irrelevant.

It's irrelevant to my question about feeder funds.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: metsmarathon wrote: no, she's saying "i told thm back then that it was crooked, and likely a big scam, and they kept pouring more money into it" that's pretty fucking damning. What's a "feeder fund"? And was that testimony that she discovered that back then, or that's what it turned out to be? Because the lawsuit isn't about this Merkin guy, and she never really got to investigate/meet Madoff. That's because who the fuck is Noreen Harrington to get to ask any questions? irrelevant of course, since Picard has to prove they asked said question and got a "we're cheating" response. But again, is there a difference between hearing it from Merkin and not Madoff?

What's irrelevant? What are you saying?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Jay Horwitz announces that Miami shortstop Jose Reyes will be banned from entering Citi Field this upcoming season. Press conference at 1PM.

[Edgy MD]

Feeder fund.

[ashie62]

Harrington is a financial expert. She has the sophistication to make complex financial decisions in a fiduciary capacity, in this case, for her boss.

She attempted to perform due diligence on the fund manager and was basically told no you will not.

Feeder Fund... A batch of money is invested with Edgy Co. and Edgy Co. offers investors the opportunity to have it fed to and managed by CeetarCo.

Jose Reyes invests 100 million with JP Morgan in a JP Morgan owned fund farmed but out or fed to a third party ala Madoff to be managed.

Very common now. Well Performing fund managers are in demand to do third party tinkering.

[metsmarathon]

she was the chief investment officer for sterling stamos. she smeleed something fishy about merkin, and madoff too, and reported it to her bosses. she suspected either fraud or illegal activities, either of which sterling stamos shoud have steered clear of, and instead they went all-in.

she's clearly an expert, or she likely would not be in the chief investment officering business. i guess the big question is whether she has credibility in whether or not she actually told the katzes what she says she told them. but she certainly has the credibility in that she has the wherewithal to smell a rat and report on it.

that rat is the fucking wilpons and fucking katzes. fuck them all. get htem the fuck away from my team.

[Ceetar]

feeder funds one of those 'tricks' that kept Madoff from getting caught for so long? Despite people that apparently suspecting/knowing like Harrington?

[ashie62]

metsmarathon wrote: she was the chief investment officer for sterling stamos. she smeleed something fishy about merkin, and madoff too, and reported it to her bosses. she suspected either fraud or illegal activities, either of which sterling stamos shoud have steered clear of, and instead they went all-in. she's clearly an expert, or she likely would not be in the chief investment officering business. i guess the big question is whether she has credibility in whether or not she actually told the katzes what she says she told them. but she certainly has the credibility in that she has the wherewithal to smell a rat and report on it. that rat is the fucking wilpons and fucking katzes. fuck them all. get htem the fuck away from my team.

That about sums it up.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Sterling Stamos was a hedge fund. Noreen Harrington was its CIO. For the right to earn a commission by investing other people's money, Sterling is obligated to perform due diligence. In other words, Sterling is supposed to investigate the companies or funds that it invests its clients' money with. Sterling was overly invested in Madoff, and therefore, "wanted" to diversify -- to spread its risk ... you know ... don't put all your eggs in one basket and all that jazz -- and so Sterling considered also investing with Melkin's fund, because Melkin's profits were as spectacular as Madoff's. Harrington discovered that Melkin's fund was a feeder for Madoff. In other words, Melkin was investing his funds with Madoff. That's why Melkin's profits were able to match Madoff's

This is what feeder funds do: They invest with other funds. In fact, David Boies is currently representing a large class of investors who invested in a hedge fund that in turn, placed much of its capital with Madoff. Boies alleges that this feeder fund did no due diligence at all, and in fact, simply turned over much of its capital to Madoff in return for guaranteed commissions. The fund made multi-millions of dollar while many of their clients were wiped out when Madoff's Ponzi scheme was discovered.

Harrington believed that Madoff's fund was illegitimate; that Madoff was either trading on inside information (frontrunning) or operating a Ponzi scheme and fabricating his earnings statements out of thin air. When Harrington tried to obtain Melkin's research/due diligence, she claims she was thwarted, essentially being told that she has no right to question Melkin's investment decisions.


Fairfield Greenwich Group link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairfield_Greenwich_Group

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Sterling Stamos was a hedge fund. Noreen Harrington was its CIO. For the right to earn a commission by investing other people's money, Sterling is obligated to perform due diligence. In other words, Sterling is supposed to investigate the companies or funds that it invests its clients' money with.

Yes, but wasn't the recent decision that Picard had to prove the Wilpons _knew_ that it was a scam, not that they _should have known_? Isn't that obligation to perform due diligence more should have known?

Or is that just basically what the Wilpons are going to argue in court when Harrington gives her testimony?

[ashie62]

Consider due diligence is being being done by salaried and relatively low paid compliance officers who have no great motivation to throw up red flags.

[metsmarathon]

yes. i suppose the wilpons/katzes could argue that when their top ranked corporate office in charge of investigating their investments told them that their investments were in a bogus fund that was either fraudulent or criminal, they should have either listened or comprehended, but did not.

if ignoring what someone is telling you is a defense against knowing something, then i guess they could be found faultless.

rather, i think that "should have known" means that they should have suspected it but did nothing to investigate nor were ever told by anybody who did any investigating. "knowing" means either learning it oneself or being told it. when she told them that the activity was not above board, at that point, they transitioned from "should have known" to "knowing"

if i tell minimm that he's not allowed to draw on the furniture, and he puts crayon to sofa, i am correct in scolding him "you know you're not supposed to write on the couch."