Jose Reyes dances all crazy + his hat is 2 big... trade him?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

But it isn't ironic.

If they didn't require salary relief, that Reyes-Beltran for Upton-Drew would be interesting.

I'm still not certain that I'd want this, mind you. I'm pretty certain, though, that the Snakes wouldn't do this.

[ashie62]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: But it isn't ironic. If they didn't require salary relief, that Reyes-Beltran for Upton-Drew would be interesting. I'm still not certain that I'd want this, mind you. I'm pretty certain, though, that the Snakes wouldn't do this.

If the snakes would do this I will drives Reyes & Beltran to AZ and bring back Upton & Drew.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Ashie62 wrote: I'm warming up the car to drive Reyes to the airport.

Ashie62 wrote: If the snakes would do this I will drives Reyes & Beltran to AZ and bring back Upton & Drew.

I think all this anti-Reyes nonsense is really just Ashie's way of saying he really, really, really wants to go on a roadtrip with the guy. Who's manning the radio? Who'll break down and ask for a pit stop first? Who'll win license plate bingo?

[seawolf17]

First person who trades Reyes gets a serious smack upside the head. I'm talking to you, Sandy Alderson.

[Centerfield]

Yeah, I'm trying to be detached and logical about this, but I find myself more and more in seawolf's camp. After he's done, I'll smack him on the other side.

[bmfc1]

seawolf17 wrote: First person who trades Reyes gets a serious smack upside the head. I'm talking to you, Sandy Alderson.

Even if you want to trade him to improve your minor league depth and plan for '12, you're not going to get full value for Jose coming off another season with injuries. Same with Beltran. Keep them, hope they stay healthy, and if they are and you're not in contention and you don't want to resign them, then move them before the trade deadline.

[Vic Sage]

yeah, i'm sick of all this "buy-high-sell-low" thinking.

[seawolf17]

bmfc1 wrote: seawolf17 wrote: First person who trades Reyes gets a serious smack upside the head. I'm talking to you, Sandy Alderson. Even if you want to trade him to improve your minor league depth and plan for '12, you're not going to get full value for Jose coming off another season with injuries. Same with Beltran. Keep them, hope they stay healthy, and if they are and you're not in contention and you don't want to resign them, then move them before the trade deadline.

NO NO NO NO NO NO. If Reyes is healthy and good, then he IS your plan for 2012. Resign him NOW.

[batmagadanleadoff]

One thing to consider is that speed is the first tool to go. When I say "speed", I'm not talking about bat speed, or reflex speed in getting to a grounder -- I'm talking foot speed ... running speed. As it is, Reyes is already a half a step to a full step slower than he was under Willie Small Balls. Could another leg injury strip him of more foot speed? Will he slow down regardless of any new injuries? What's Reyes' value should he lose his blazing foot speed?

TBD

[bmfc1]

I agree w/you seawolf17: I don't want him gone, either. My point was that if you are going to do so, something I don't want to see happen, then you certainly don't do it now when he is not at full value.

[ashie62]

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: Ashie62 wrote: I'm warming up the car to drive Reyes to the airport. Ashie62 wrote: If the snakes would do this I will drives Reyes & Beltran to AZ and bring back Upton & Drew. I think all this anti-Reyes nonsense is really just Ashie's way of saying he really, really, really wants to go on a roadtrip with the guy. Who's manning the radio? Who'll break down and ask for a pit stop first? Who'll win license plate bingo?

it's been a long year.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Reyes is announcing that he won't talk extension during the season. He wants to focus on winning (and isn't that always the reason?).

It's his perogative, but I think he signed his last extension in season, and I think his tune will change if he logs a good first half.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Reyes is announcing that he won't talk extension during the season. He wants to focus on winning (and isn't that always the reason?). It's his perogative, but I think he signed his last extension in season, and I think his tune will change if he logs a good first half.

As is normal, the quote is being twisted to fit the story. I believe Reyes didn't say he "won't" but that "he doesn't want to". That he wants to focus on baseball and not deal with distractions and non-baseball dicussions. Makes sense, but it sounded like if Sandy wanted to sit down and discuss it in May, he wouldn't turn him away.

But I still dont' see any reason this can't and won't happen in February.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Ceetar wrote: But I still dont' see any reason this can't and won't happen in February.

I can think of 29 reasons he'd prefer to wait on this.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I certainly don't mean to twist anything, but I really don't think there's a particuarly meaningful distinction between "I won't" and "I don't want to." It's a (very typical) negotiating ploy either way.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Edgy DC wrote: I think he signed his last extension in season

He did, but the difference this time is that free agency is beckoning.

Sandy has said (or at least strongly suggested) that he doesn't want to sign Jose until he sees what he can do on the field. That would seem to rule out February, but perhaps not March. But it's not clear how much Sandy needs to see. Would two strong weeks in spring training really be enough? Or does he want to see two or three solid months? If it's the latter, then obviously it would have to be an in-season deal.

I wonder how distracted players are by this kind of stuff? They're generally not at the negotiating table. The real distraction would be from the press, I'd think. If the negotiations happen quietly, and get resolved quickly, the fact of the signing should make things less distracting, since things would no longer be up in the air.

I do think it's possible that they'll sign him in-season. There are really five possibilities: Sign him in the spring, sign him during the season, sign him after the season, trade him, or let him sign elsewhere. I don't have any clear sense which of those options are more likely than any of the others.

[Centerfield]

This is stupid. Sign an extension now when his value is not great. Sure, in the worst case scenario, you may dodge a bullet if he tanks this year, but barring an unmitigated disaster, there is little to gain. The scenarios as I see them are:

1. If he has a great year, you end up paying more. Lots more.

2. If he has a so-so year, you still have to bring him back (there are no other real options, within the organization, or via free agency) but then you pay more because other teams are in the mix.

3. If he has a bad year, you may be able to save some money, but you have to bank on the fact that no team will pony up the cash and gamble that he returns to form. In other words, you might save money, but you might not.

4. If he has a bad year, and suffers some sort of injury that will affect the rest of his career, you've dodged a bullet.

To me, scenarios 3 and 4 are not enough to offset 1 and 2, which I feel, are more likely to happen anyway. Plus he's a home-grown player. Sandy should be talking to him right now.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm with Sandy (and Jose Jose) on this one, and it behooves both to wait on this.

If Reyes wants a big fat juicy contract he's going to have to have a good, injury-free year first and he'd obviously drive up his price if multiple teams are bidding on him. And if I'm the Mets, I'm looking at his health record (plus how crazy he dances, natch) and hesitating to make an offer unless its one that would insult the guy and create bad feelings.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: I certainly don't mean to twist anything, but I really don't think there's a particuarly meaningful distinction between "I won't" and "I don't want to." It's a (very typical) negotiating ploy either way.

I just don't take throw away questions in interviews in events focused on something else (kids) to be ultimatums about "You better not talk to me during the season!"

It's the most mundane of responses. I want to focus on baseball. I'm going to work hard. I just need to make my pitches. We have the players to win. I like our team's chances. I'm in the best shape of my life.

As far as I can see, Sandy only made the one comment "Let's see how he plays" to Boomer and Carton one morning. But what does that really mean? All season? That he shows up healthy? That he hasn't actually thought about it much yet because he was focused on 2011? (despite what some people would like to think) No one's ruled out mid-season negotiations. And even if Reyes says he won't negotiate, would that even stop the media from asking him at every juncture? "Hey Jose, you went 15/20 this week with 2 HR, 5 SB and a game winning Balk! How do you think this affects your contract situation?"

It may just be my opinion, but I think Sandy takes one look at Jose tearing around the bases and affecting the game in the Spring and thinks to himself "Do I raelly want to invision a team without this guy? W hat am I waiting for?"

[metirish]

Reyes is a player I would hate to see playing elsewhere , still , I agree with Alderson here and Reyes actually.....it's his shot at FA and it's Alderson's chance to get a good look at him. I have little doubt if Alderson thinks he can get something done in season then he will.

[Ceetar]

Aldy's buzzword has been flexibility. You get an incredible discount by doing Reyes' contract now. That creates more flexibility going forward. Even if he puts up a 2010 standard year, the demand will be greater with other teams involved. and even if the idea is to see him play healthy, all you're doing is having the same injury risk in 2012 at a greater value because it'll be more money.

[Centerfield]

Can I ask a simple question here? Why does Alderson need to see how he plays this season to get a good look at him? Does he not have access to game tapes? Is SNY blocked in his neighborhood for some reason? I mean, if he needs me to compile his stats and put together a little video montage, I'm happy to do so.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Ceetar wrote: Aldy's buzzword has been flexibility. You get an incredible discount by doing Reyes' contract now. That creates more flexibility going forward. Even if he puts up a 2010 standard year, the demand will be greater with other teams involved. and even if the idea is to see him play healthy, all you're doing is having the same injury risk in 2012 at a greater value because it'll be more money.

Yeah, OK. And what makes you guys think Reyes will agree to a cheap deal?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I wonder how distracted players are by this kind of stuff?

They aren't, I think. "I don't want to be distracted" is code for "I want to put my team's feet to the fire NOW!!!!"

centerfield wrote: This is stupid. Sign an extension now when his value is not great.

I'm sure his agent would tell him to that they are so taking advantage of him, and advise him to ignore any lowballs, play out the season, and protect his thyroid.

ceetar wrote: I just don't take throw away questions in interviews in events focused on something else (kids) to be ultimatums about "You better not talk to me during the season!"

I certainly didn't include "better not," nor an exclamation point. Let's not get twisty. You've clarified that he said he "doesn't want to." Understood.

ceetar wrote: It's the most mundane of responses.

I didn't say otheriwise, but it's a statement that speaks to his negotiating stance so I thought It a propos to revisit this thread about Jos� Reyes' contract status.

[metirish]

Well I am sure he knows all the stats and can view all the tape, I don't think it's at all unreasonable that he has stated he wants to see him for himself.....

[Guest Edgy DC]

Centerfield wrote: Can I ask a simple question here? Why does Alderson need to see how he plays this season to get a good look at him? Does he not have access to game tapes? Is SNY blocked in his neighborhood for some reason? I mean, if he needs me to compile his stats and put together a little video montage, I'm happy to do so.

Because his condition and his ability are perhaps best viewed through the most current snapshots.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Centerfield wrote: Can I ask a simple question here? Why does Alderson need to see how he plays this season to get a good look at him? Does he not have access to game tapes? Is SNY blocked in his neighborhood for some reason? I mean, if he needs me to compile his stats and put together a little video montage, I'm happy to do so.

Don't forget to include the highlight reels of Wilson Delgado and Alex Cora, and be sure to highlight that OBP from last year too.

[Guest Edgy DC]

And who is "Aldy"? "Sandy" isn't a twee enough endearment?

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Ceetar wrote: Aldy's buzzword has been flexibility. You get an incredible discount by doing Reyes' contract now. That creates more flexibility going forward. Even if he puts up a 2010 standard year, the demand will be greater with other teams involved. and even if the idea is to see him play healthy, all you're doing is having the same injury risk in 2012 at a greater value because it'll be more money. Yeah, OK. And what makes you guys think Reyes will agree to a cheap deal?

It depends on if Reyes is actually serious about wanting to stay here. If he's like Cliff Lee or A-Rod and drooling over big paydays, then sure he's gonna hit free agency and let everyone else tell him what he's worth. But right now those teams aren't allowed to tell him they'll give him 22 million a year. a modest raise would still be a lot of money, but probably significantly less than he'd make on the free agent market.

On the other hand, there is the whole "Guys play better in walk years" thing. In which case, I expect to go to the playoffs because walk year numbers from Beltran and Reyes would pretty much beat the rest of the league into submission.

[Centerfield]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Centerfield wrote: Can I ask a simple question here? Why does Alderson need to see how he plays this season to get a good look at him? Does he not have access to game tapes? Is SNY blocked in his neighborhood for some reason? I mean, if he needs me to compile his stats and put together a little video montage, I'm happy to do so. Don't forget to include the highlight reels of Wilson Delgado and Alex Cora, and be sure to highlight that OBP from last year too.

That's fine. Those things should absolutely be part of the equation, which is why it makes sense to talk to him now. Take that into account, make him an offer that reflects his performance these past few years, the years before those, and what you reasonably expect from him in the future. If Jose rejects it, then it's on him. But at least you try.

Taking the stance that you want to wait until next year, in my opinion, is not worth the gamble. Like I said before, it seems far more likely that you will end up paying more.

The notion that Sandy needs to watch him play in person (and I don't think he actually said this, but it's been used as a justification by others for the wait and see approach) makes no sense. That logic is almost Omarian.