New Skipper Candidate Scorecard

[metirish]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: metirish wrote: The drumbeat is starting with vigor for Torre right?, you can see it now with various articles. Drumbeat? I think that's the sound of me banging my head against my desk that you're hearing, there.

LOL....me too.....but you know he's a media darling now with the NY writers.....LupicaDick had him being paired with Backman as the understudy.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Nah, Torre would have Bob Bailor or Doug Flynn as the understudy.

[Guest Kong76]

If Torre is the Mets manager next year I may very well renounce them.

[Frayed Knot]

"I am curious,� [about potential interest from the Mets about their managing job]. �When the season is over, I hope the phone will be ringing.� -- So said Joe Torre to Mike Francesa on yesterday's radio show.

Didn't take long for his not-quite final statements about not returning to the dugout to turn into "hope" that he'll get offers, or at least draw interest.

[MFS62]

Frayed Knot wrote: "I am curious,� [about potential interest from the Mets about their managing job]. �When the season is over, I hope the phone will be ringing.� -- So said Joe Torre to Mike Francesa on yesterday's radio show.

We've wondered whether Jeff Wilpon listens to the fans.
I hope he never listens to Francessa('s show).

Later

[Guest attgig]

gary carter? =)

[Guest Edgy DC]

Frayed Knot wrote: "I am curious,� [about potential interest from the Mets about their managing job]. �When the season is over, I hope the phone will be ringing.� -- So said Joe Torre to Mike Francesa on yesterday's radio show. Didn't take long for his not-quite final statements about not returning to the dugout to turn into "hope" that he'll get offers, or at least draw interest.

So much for the notion that nobody with sense or leverage would be interested in working for Jeff Wilopon.

[dgwphotography]

Kong76 wrote: If Torre is the Mets manager next year I may very well renounce them.

I thought I was the only one thinking this way...

[Benjamin Grimm]

After 40 seasons, it will take a lot more than Joe Torre for me to "renounce" them.

A few more seasons like 2009 and 2010, though, and my interest may hit an all-time low.

[Centerfield]

After 25+ seasons, it will take a lot more than Joe Torre for me to "renounce" them.

A few more seasons like 2009 and 2010, though, and my interest may hit an all-time low.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I made it through Torre once. I can probably make it through twice.

I may be wrong, but he seemed a responsible bullpen user as Yankee manager. But Jerry's blown my perspective shot and everybody else looks responsible right now.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Torre I always thought influenced Willie: Definitely didn't trust everyone in the pen, but strongly devoted to a few. I wouldn't consider it model bullpenning.

Torre' strength though the years has been tremendous respect from the players. He out-juiced Gayrod on the MFYs, that's saying something. I could see where that kind of influence would help the Mets though I would hope that if they spent the $$ it would take to get Joe they would do better to also spend it with Bobby.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Neil Allen was Torre's guy some thirty years ago. I remember arguing this issue with the older teens in my neighborhood --- making the point that Reardon was the better reliever of the two. Allen's stats were glitzier only because Torre used him like a modern day closer.

[Guest Edgy DC]

He used Reardon when behind and Allen when ahead. Both were good, and interestingly both bought them an All Star hitter in mid-career believed to be coked out and prematurely washed up. Reardon bought them the one that actually was, and Allen bought them the one that wasn't.

I don't know that Torre's usage was decidely detrimental to the team. They both got plenty of work. They both had a good idea of when they would be used, and that's important for their mental prep work. But one of them got his ego fed more --- I don't know if it really mattered as much on payday back then who got the saves, but it mattered some.

Both also eventually wrestled with depression issues.

[Frayed Knot]

Edgy DC wrote: I may be wrong, but he seemed a responsible bullpen user as Yankee manager. But Jerry's blown my perspective shot and everybody else looks responsible right now.

Torre the Yank usually had almost a two-tiered caste system with his pen in most years. He had his "good guys" - most notably the Rivera, Stanton, Nelson trio in the dominant years with the set-up men changing slightly later on - and then the fill-in types. The good ones rarely worked except in close games while the others were used almost strictly in mop up roles.
Now sometimes that kind of usage is determined more by personnel than the other way around and so the fact that his 'big three' were so good for a while at the same time that ownership used to pick the oddest places (often the back of the pen) to make a show of "cutting" payroll probably forced him into that kind of usage where in a different scenario he would operate differently.
Yanqui fans used to get upset that he was 'giving up' when, after not going to his horses down by a couple in the middle innings, the game would blow up on him but of course that meant that they were not just available but also fresh when the next game was closer and his teams not only scored more and gave up fewer than just about anyone else in those days but they also beat their 'pythagorean projections' more often than not.

Later on, when the set-up crew wasn't nearly as good, Torre would stand accused of totally over-working the likes of Tanyon Sturtze and others who were not as good as Stanton/Nelson at their best but were the best Joe had leading up to Rivera and so the two-tiered system was suddenly not as effective. Funny how that works sometimes.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

What's his name that guy, Torre used him all the time then he followed him to LA. Hard thrower from the Dodgers in the Ventura deal. Bradley. Reynolds. Dammit, brain fried.

[Frayed Knot]

Scott Proctor probably.
Paul Quantrill also was a cog on the Torre abuse-train for a season or two.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yup Proctor.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Frayed Knot wrote: Yanqui fans used to get upset that he was 'giving up' when, after not going to his horses down by a couple in the middle innings, the game would blow up on him but of course that meant that they were not just available but also fresh when the next game was closer and his teams not only scored more and gave up fewer than just about anyone else in those days but they also beat their 'pythagorean projections' more often than not.

And this is where I give him credit. Jerry used his horses any time the game was within reach, which meant most every day --- until the good guys fell apart and got asisgned to the bad guys part of the pen. Fernando Nieve Syndrome, baby.

But, to judge from the above few posts, Torre suffered from FNS in the latter half of his tenure also.

[Benjamin Grimm]

It's so strange that this conversation is even taking place. Joe Torre as a future Mets manager? Thirty years later??? The same guy who managed Ed Kranepool, Jerry Koosman, and Jerry Grote might manage Ike Davis, Jon Niese and Josh Thole???

[Guest Kong76]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: After 40 seasons, it will take a lot more than Joe Torre for me to "renounce" them. A few more seasons like 2009 and 2010, though, and my interest may hit an all-time low.

Centerfield wrote: After 25+ seasons, it will take a lot more than Joe Torre for me to "renounce" them. A few more seasons like 2009 and 2010, though, and my interest may hit an all-time low.

Well really, who am I kidding anyway ... I'm like the drug addict
who can't hold a razor in the morning and says he's kickin' for good
and is out on the streets by noon ...

[Benjamin Grimm]

Beth Harris, Associated Press wrote: Torre said if he was looking for a job, and he�s not, he wouldn�t have gone to New York. �I think people tend to forget that I spent 12 years with the Yankees and formed too good of a relationship with their fans to move across the water and all of a sudden make them mad at me,� he said. �I�m closing the door on managing the Mets, and probably everybody else. I don�t want to mislead anybody.�

What a weenie.

[Guest Edgy DC]

So, do you think of Collins as a candidate? He's running the team's fall instructional workouts right now. (They're not in St. Lucie, but instead borrowing fields from the Red Sox, because no other team near St. Lucie was working out minor leaguers this fall.)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The New Skipper Candidate Scorecard doesn't indicate he'd be much of a contender.

[HahnSolo]

The whole player mutiny thing (deserved or not) might be a red flag.

[Guest Edgy DC]

This interview from May suggests he's got the respect of Omar and the ownership, was a serious candidate back in 2004, and any strides forward by the team in development this season have to refelect well on him, but he closes by experssing disinterest in returning to the hot seat.

Q&A with Mets minor-league field coordinator Terry Collins Published: Monday, May 03, 2010, 12:00 PM pdated: Sunday, May 02, 2010, 11:35 PM Brian Costa/The Star-Ledger The Mets� farm system, much-maligned last summer, has had a mini-resurgence this year. The emergence of Ike Davis, Jenrry Mejia and Jon Niese has helped the Mets at the major-league level. And there is considerably more depth at the upper levels of the farm system, which was barren by the end of last summer. Triple-A Buffalo is in first place in the International League's north division at 15-9, and Double-A Binghamton has the second best record in the Eastern League, at 14-9. Toward the end of spring training, I talked to Mets minor-league field coordinator Terry Collins, who was hired during the offseason to help fill the void left by the firing of Tony Bernazard, the former vice president of player development. Collins, 60, managed the Angels and Astros in the 1990s and interviewed for the Mets� managerial opening in late 2004. Most recently, he managed the Orix Buffaloes in the Japanese Professional League. Collins talked about his approach to the job, his thoughts on how quickly to move players up through the system, and whether he wants to be a major-league manager again. Q: Why did you take this job? A: �It came about when I came back from Japan late last summer. Omar (Minaya) called and said, �Hey, what are you going to do?� I hadn�t thought about it, but I said I was going to make some calls at the end of the season and see what might be out there, and he said, �We might have an opportunity. I�d love to have you join the organization.� We�ve been friends for many years. When I interviewed for the job when Willie (Randolph) got the job, I thought it was the best interview I had been through. The most comprehensive. I was very impressed. So I said, �Let me know what�s available.� So he called me over the winter and said, �Look, I have this field coordinator�s job,� which I had just done with the Dodgers before I went to Japan. He said, �Would you be interested?� I said yeah. So I went in and interviewed and they hired me.� Q: What do you like about working on the player development side? A: �This game is about player development. Obviously the major leagues are where the money is, but the nuts and bolts of this game are scouting and player development. That�s how everybody got there. And to see a young player get better and improve, it�s really fun. These guys keep you young. They�re young, they�re energetic, they�re fun to be around, so I like it. I enjoyed it with the Dodgers. I went to Japan because I craved getting back on the field. I was also the farm director for the Dodgers besides the field coordinator. I�m a field guy. So when this came about I thought gosh, I enjoyed it once. I�d enjoy it again.� Q: What does the job of a minor-league field coordinator entail? A: �Basically, in spring training I outline the daily stuff and we talk about what needs to be taught and what certain players need to work on. We come up with a game plan for how we go about teaching it. Then once the season starts, I go from team to team to make sure stuff is getting done, make sure players are getting better not just on the individual side but the team side. Making sure some of the plans we set down in spring training are being followed. My whole thing I tell coaches is, when I come back into town the next time, something had better be better. Whether it�s cutoffs or relay throws or whatever, something had better be better.� Q: You look like you have more energy at 8 a.m. than some of these guys have at noon. Where does that come from? �I don�t know. I guess it�s just me. I have a lot of energy. It drives some people crazy. I care about the game a lot. I respect the game a lot. So I put energy back into it. I�ve always felt along the way that people will, especially when you�re managing a team, your players will take on your personality a little bit. I�ve seen it work, so I try to make sure each day I bring some energy to the field, because I want the staff and players to have the same thing. As a matter of fact, I run from field to field, and they tease me every day. When they see me walking, they tease me about not running. As long as they do it, they can tease me all they want.� Q: Last year obviously was a tough year for this system. Is there something in particular you feel you can bring that will help? A: �I have to be honest, I�ve heard all the stories about the last few years. I wasn�t here, so it�s hard for me to talk about it. The only thing I can tell you is what I did in Los Angeles and how we went about it, and the players bought into it. ... There was a plan in place. We tried to make it fun. It�s hard game. They have to understand that, but there�s a way to go about it. So I�ve tried to bring that here, a philosophy of, �Look, let�s enjoy it when we�re out here. Let�s get the work done. Let�s go home and come back tomorrow.�� Q: It seems like it�s been a good spring for several of the upper-level prospects, at least the ones we�ve seen on the major-league side. What�s been your early impression from what you�ve seen? A: �They�ve got some players here. There are some legitimate prospects here. There are guys on the pitching side who have really good arms. Now we�ve got to get them to throw strikes. On the position player side, they�ve got some talent here. They�ve got some guys who can swing the bat. They don�t have a lot of speed, but we�ve got some players that have the ability to be pretty good base runners. So I think there�s something to build on, for sure. We�re going to try to slow the process down just a bit. I know everybody wants to rush players to the big leagues. I think that can be a hindrance as much as it can be a help. I do believe players need to be challenged when the time comes. They need to learn how to fail, because they�re going to be humbled in the big leagues sometime. They need to learn that in the minor leagues, how to get through those things. So when the time is right, we�re going to challenge them. But to put them over their heads right now and let them drown, I don�t think that�s fair. I believe in playing with confidence. I really think that means something. And I want to move players up, not back.� Q: Do you still want to be a major-league manager again one day? Is that still a goal? A: �It isn�t. I did my thing. I had a great time. I was very fortunate to be around good players. When I first got my first major-league managing job, my whole thing was to prove that I belonged there, and I think I did that. So for me, I�m happy doing what I�m doing. I�m working with great people. My job right now is to build this organization up to where our minor leagues are going to produce not only major-league players for the Mets but major-league players throughout baseball. So if Omar needs to make a trade to make them better, we�ve got pieces that can help.�

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I like him where he is.

Unrelatedly, he's got a small face.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I do also.

I wouldn't mind him on Bobby's staff, perhaps, as an alternative.

[Frayed Knot]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Beth Harris, Associated Press wrote: Torre said if he was looking for a job, and he�s not, he wouldn�t have gone to New York. �I think people tend to forget that I spent 12 years with the Yankees and formed too good of a relationship with their fans to move across the water and all of a sudden make them mad at me,� he said. �I�m closing the door on managing the Mets, and probably everybody else. I don�t want to mislead anybody.� What a weenie.

Yeah really. Not to mention how what he's essentially saying is; 'today I'm telling you the truth and I was lying yesterday'.
You're already in a hole Joe. Stop digging and STFU.


And while we're on the subject -- a Tim Kurkjian radio interview praised the Mattingly hire saying he was a really smart player in his day and is a lot tougher than his calm demeanor lets on. "I'll tell you what" Tim added [paraphrasing], "guys like Matt Kemp and others won't get away with the loafing they've been getting away with this year"
Ummm, isn't that a pretty strong indictment of Torre?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Not to mention a strong indictment of Torre's staff, including Mattingly.