Massive Heart Attack For Steinbrenner

[soupcan]

Am I jealous of the Yankees success? Sure, who wouldn't be? But this revisionist history of 'The Boss' being the architect of the Jeter-Mariano-Pettite-Posada dynasty just is not true. If he weren't suspended at the time those guys came up his track record prior to that shows that in all likelihood, each one of them would have been traded. Yankee fans should be kissing the feet of Gene Michael and Bob Watson for allowing those players to mature and become the players they became as Yankees and not Mariners or Braves. Once Steinbrenner was allowed to come back, those players were already entrenched as key contributors. It was a no-brainer to keep them. I wonder what Dave Winfield has to say about Herr Steinbrenner?

I don't think you can blame a lot of these Yankee fans for having no clue though, most of them only became self-aware circa 1994.

The only good thing I can say about Steinbrenner is that he wasn't cheap when it came to paying for free agents and I'm not entirely sure that's a good thing.

[Ceetar]

soupcan wrote: Am I jealous of the Yankees success? Sure, who wouldn't be? But this revisionist history of 'The Boss' being the architect of the Jeter-Mariano-Pettite-Posada dynasty just is not true. If he weren't suspended at the time those guys came up his track record prior to that shows that in all likelihood, each one of them would have been traded. Yankee fans should be kissing the feet of Gene Michael and Bob Watson for allowing those players to mature and become the players they became as Yankees and not Mariners or Braves. Once Steinbrenner was allowed to come back, those players were already entrenched as key contributors. It was a no-brainer to keep them. I wonder what Dave Winfield has to say about Herr Steinbrenner? I don't think you can blame a lot of these Yankee fans for having no clue though, most of them only became self-aware circa 1994. The only good thing I can say about Steinbrenner is that he wasn't cheap when it came to paying for free agents and I'm not entirely sure that's a good thing.

I think it could be argued that Steinbrenner's overpaying for free agents helped pave the way so that guys like C.C. and AJ were valued at levels that few but the Yankees could afford.

[Guest Edgy DC]

CNN wrote: 'The Boss' of baseball, George Steinbrenner, dies Yankees owner George Steinbrenner died today of a heart attack. He was a pop culture icon, appearing on "Seinfeld" and lampooning himself in ads.

He wasn't the "Boss" of baseball, but the Yankees, and he didn't "appear" on Seinfeld.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ceetar wrote: soupcan wrote: Am I jealous of the Yankees success? Sure, who wouldn't be? But this revisionist history of 'The Boss' being the architect of the Jeter-Mariano-Pettite-Posada dynasty just is not true. If he weren't suspended at the time those guys came up his track record prior to that shows that in all likelihood, each one of them would have been traded. Yankee fans should be kissing the feet of Gene Michael and Bob Watson for allowing those players to mature and become the players they became as Yankees and not Mariners or Braves. Once Steinbrenner was allowed to come back, those players were already entrenched as key contributors. It was a no-brainer to keep them. I wonder what Dave Winfield has to say about Herr Steinbrenner? I don't think you can blame a lot of these Yankee fans for having no clue though, most of them only became self-aware circa 1994. The only good thing I can say about Steinbrenner is that he wasn't cheap when it came to paying for free agents and I'm not entirely sure that's a good thing. I think it could be argued that Steinbrenner's overpaying for free agents helped pave the way so that guys like C.C. and AJ were valued at levels that few but the Yankees could afford.

By design or no, this... is a significant understatement.

The Yankees practically invented the massive FA overpayment.

[Guest Edgy DC]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: He was a bully and a cheater his whole life. Perhaps, but how else does one amass the wealth and power that Steinbrenner enjoyed?

Well, inheriting a burgeoning empire from your father helps.

Also, astutely backing megasuccesses like Legs Diamond is a good trick.

[metirish]

The coverage is getting close to Diana nauseating.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Six honorary Schaefer points to whoever comes up with the best George-Steinbrenner-themed "Candle in the Wind" parody!

[metirish]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Six honorary Schaefer points to whoever comes up with the best George-Steinbrenner-themed "Candle in the Wind" parody!

Great idea, looking forward to some brilliant entries.

"It's fitting that he died on this day".......really ?

I've heard this a few times today on various news casts.

Steinbrenner never struck me as a big ASG fan unless it was at MFYII

[HahnSolo]

Edgy DC wrote: He wasn't the "Boss" of baseball, but the Yankees, and he didn't "appear" on Seinfeld.

Actually, he did appear as himself on one episode.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Surprise to me.

I checked IMDB, and it says "Scenes Deleted."

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0825859/

That was def the shark-jumping episode for me.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Uni-Watch on double Uni-Tributes: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lukas/100713_uniform_memorials

[Frayed Knot]

I've always despised the "he wanted to win more" line too - even as that one is going to be the mantra from most Yanqui fans, from much of the cliche-driven mediots, and even (or maybe especially) from self-loathing Met fans like Joe Badabingo (he's probably doing so right now which is why I'm not listening). Lauding George for 'choosing to spend more' is like saying Bill Gates is choosing to live in a bigger house than me.

George's Yanx have essentially had two waves of success during his tenure: one right after his purchase and the other right after his suspension. Both have come about due to a mixture of good timing, good luck, and some good business decisions.

- He started by trying to buy into his hometown Cleveland Indians but, when that fell through, the Yanx were a second option and by buying into baseball in the early '70s and the Yanx in particular he hit on a true 'buy low' moment. Baseball was down in the early '70s and the AL in particular. CBS had owned the Yanx for more than a decade and had lost a bundle. But since that was only a small portion of their operation it was easy for them to swallow their buy-high/sell-low mistake. George headed a group which bought them for $10 million and his initial put-up cash was something like 100K.

- By getting in just as the FA era was about to begin, Steinbrenner had the dual advantage of not being burdened by the mind-set that players weren't supposed to be able to earn free-market wages and that much of his competition still was (see: Grant, M. Donald). The Yanqui "over-spending" then wasn't really over-spending at all (at least not automatically) but rather just seemed high as compared to the artificially low wages from before. The phrase 'gotta spend it to earn it' definitely applied there and George was one of the first to realize it in a business where the others were used to having things their own way. Good job by him.
After a few years, though, new owners and new thinking caught up to him at which point he was forced into actual over-spending mainly because he lacked the smarts and judgement to do anything else, a period which led to the longest NYY-less playoff stint since the pre-Ruth era. Without an advantage, his brief window of glory closed fast.

- The second wave of Steinbrenner-led success came after their landmark TV deal with MSG network, one which gave the Yanx some $50mil/year in local TV money at a time when many teams were earning less than $5mil. Small differences in TV revenues were one thing in a sport where teams traditionally relied on gate receipts as their biggest source but - even though MLB does share all their national money (despite what you'll hear from many commentators on this subject in the next few days) - they never saw this coming and trying to put in a plan to more evenly split local money after the fact was viewed more akin to simply taking from one team to give to another. As a result, no plan was there to deal with it and so the Yanx were free to exploit the advantage. Again, great business decision* but that's a big step away from the cliche about him simply "wanting it" more or about how other owners with similar personal wealth are cruelly opting to pocket money while George 'puts his back into the team'. This new financial edge, coinciding with a series of good picks, good signings, and good trades (many of which - as has been pointed out - may not have been made or would have been reversed had GMSIII not been barred from running his own team at the time) put into motion the late-'90s dynasty. That, of course, further widened the financial gap, something MLB only recently started to address in its last few CBAs even as the Yanx fought it at every stage.










* Doubleday, meanwhile, had himself a pretty good cable deal signed in the early '80s but, unlike Steinbrenner, opted to sign a long-term deal and was therefore locked into one with some 15 years to go on it when the NYY one came up for re-negotiation at the much higher rate. The book 'Lords of the Realm' has someone at MLB offices trying to talk Nelson out of confining himself to such as long-term contract. Doubleday, not wanting to be told how to run his business, is quoted as replying; "Go fuck yourself"

[Fman99]

Bye, George.

[Zvon]

That's a great post FK, ty for taking the time to share your knowledge .

I do wanna make a joke here but first I will respect the man and salute him.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Frayed Knot wrote: * Doubleday, meanwhile, had himself a pretty good cable deal signed in the early '80s but, unlike Steinbrenner, opted to sign a long-term deal and was therefore locked into one with some 15 years to go on it when the NYY one came up for re-negotiation at the much higher rate. The book 'Lords of the Realm' has someone at MLB offices trying to talk Nelson out of confining himself to such as long-term contract. Doubleday, not wanting to be told how to run his business, is quoted as replying; "Go fuck yourself"

That's the deal the Mets coughed up $30 mills to get out of in '04 (and probably, cost us Vlad Guererro). I think by then it wasn't Steiny but Goldman Sachs who was pulling the financial strings. I kind of see the MFYs as the sports version of the new superpremium level of shit created in the pre-recession days.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

My friend, the baseball researcher, once pointed out that Steinbrenner was rarely the one to break barriers and set the highest salaries. It was usually people like Hicks and the ARod deal, smaller market teams that would bust their banks to add one player, but not be able to have enough left to build a team around.

Steinbrenner, on the other hand, could afford a mega-star player's contract -- and five more just below that level. When he was overpaying, it wasn't for the guys at the very top, but for the guys in the middle to lower top, which is what made it so tough for the other teams.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Now I want to see one of you Photoshoppers change the fa�ade on an image of YSIII to read Superpremium Level of Shit Stadium.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

It's not "Candle," and it's a little splintered (

) but...

When I saw those Major Deegan lights
On summer nights,
TV tuned to Rizzuto and Bill White.
Bobby Bonds, lord you really should have been there,
Sparklin' like Legs Diamond parked in a padded leather chair.
One five-dollar beer,
Your plaid wouldn't bug me anymore.
We've been plateauing lately,
Bill Virdon's nice,
But does Billy Martin suit us more?

But someone banned your ass from here, Georgie boy
You almost met your Watergate
CREEPy boy
You really larded on those lies
Conviction bound, felony-ized
Sweet B. Kuhn handed down two years
But you're a donor, guy,
And donors, guy, are free to fly,
Pardon-ay, pardon-ez, a toi.

I never forgot the Azocars
Nokes and Blowers,
The Andy Hawkinses walking whole teams.
At Columbus there may be a bubbling scene
Developing slow, free from domineering mien
But right now, the Bronx is mourning!
Damn it!
This team, it is no good!
I'm hip-deep in Scott Sandersons!
No Maas Tarta-bull! At least Bob Sheppard's still alive...

'Cause someone banned your ass from here, Georgie boy
You almost had some dirt on Dave
Don't be coy
You tied his charity up tight,
But Howard Spira testified,
Fay Vincent whispered in your ear
"You're a goner, guy...
And, by the way, you're gone for life.
Go away, O-Hi-away bye bye."

And you could have gone right on
Moved the team 'cross the Hudson River,
Forever perched on third
Thinking you'd tripled yourself there, 'Brenner.
But they did you a backhand favor
When they went and sent you home

Someone banned your ass that's right
Michaels saved your ass that's right
Someone banned your ass that's right
Michaels saved your ass that's right
Someone saved your rep that night
So save your breath
To thank the Fay-tes that sent you home

Someone saved your rep right there, meshuggah boy
Almost cut off your own shmuck
You tubby goy
But now your team has five more flags
And Bronxite goons and Jersey loons
-- Sweet jesus-- spitting in my ear
"He's a winner! Ay!"
And tabloid hacks are prone to lie
Lie away, write away, lie lie

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Bravo

[Willets Point]

soupcan wrote: Cue the Bill Gallo cartoon with General Von Steingrabber and Sheppard sitting in clouds looking down upon the Yankees/Yankee Stadium and saying something along the lines of 'We left them in good shape...'

How 'bout this one?

[G-Fafif]

I understand the Captain has an arrangement in which all of his enormously bloated paychecks will be signed by Mr. Steinbrenner for the rest of his career.

[Frayed Knot]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: My friend, the baseball researcher, once pointed out that Steinbrenner was rarely the one to break barriers and set the highest salaries. It was usually people like Hicks and the ARod deal, smaller market teams that would bust their banks to add one player, but not be able to have enough left to build a team around.

In fact, George at one point had a standing rule that he didn't care where the payroll was as long as it wasn't the top. Of course he would routinely break his own rule by adding players (often over the heads of his own "baseball people") as the year went on but the MFY payroll was rarely #1 overall as the season started.
His pride actually used to screw himself into bad deals. By not signing Jeter early, for instance, he wound up paying him much more than he would have just for the "honor" of saying that he didn't set the price for SSs because ARod's deal was bigger. The Yanx & Jeter had some $118mil deal on the table but by the time they finished stalling it was up to $180, but hey, it was less than $252!

Steinbrenner, on the other hand, could afford a mega-star player's contract -- and five more just below that level. When he was overpaying, it wasn't for the guys at the very top, but for the guys in the middle to lower top, which is what made it so tough for the other teams.

The reason for that is that the whole Jeter/Posada/Rivera/Pettitte/Bernie group was so good so quickly that they were, in effect, being under-paid for so long because of the way service time works in baseball deals that he could go over-board with deals for middling players and still keep the payroll within shouting distance of other teams -- Remember a bench consisting of Strawberry, Fielder, Raines, Girardi, Chili Davis, and Rueben Sierra?
Years later, as those cheap players reached their arb/FA years and were no longer so cheap, the payroll (both in number and relatively) became so much higher even as the bench and pen got a lot worse.

In 2008 - as the Yanx were going down and missing the playoffs - it became popular for YLDBs to call for the team to stop signing FAs and return to those days of only somewhat high payrolls in the mid-90s as a way to get back to those glory days - not realizing that the odds of tearing it all down and starting again depends on the remote possibility of them finding the next crop of guys who are going to go from the minors to the top of their position in a short time and all at the same time. Blinded by the success of that group, they think repeating it is simply a matter of deciding to do so.

[Zvon]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Bravo

To LWFS, what he said^

And wow, that actual song brings back so many memories.
Slices of life, man.
Slices of life.

[Zvon]

If I ever had a brew with you, FK, I think I'd wanna just sit there and listen.
And eat pretzels.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: It's not "Candle," and it's a little splintered (a la the song) but... I never forgot the Azocars Nokes and Blowers, The Andy Hawkinses walking whole teams. At Columbus there may be a bubbling scene Developing slow, free from domineering mien But right now, the Bronx is mourning! Damn it! This team, it is no good! I'm hip-deep in Scott Sandersons! No Maas Tarta-bull! At least Bob Sheppard's still alive... 'Cause someone banned your ass from here, Georgie boy You almost had some dirt on Dave Don't be coy You tied his charity up tight, But Howard Spira testified, Fay Vincent whispered in your ear "You're a goner, guy... And, by the way, you're gone for life. Go away, O-Hi-away bye bye." /i]

WOW!!!!! Amazingly good!

(And "Someone saved...." was one of the first 45s I ever bought, got it right there are the Sam Goody in the Sunrise Mall. That store seemed massive at the time.)

[G-Fafif]

Tearless remembrance from Dave Anderson in the Times, telling it like it was.

f you worked for Steinbrenner, who died Tuesday at age 80, in the three decades before his health deteriorated several years ago, as any Yankees employee of that era would confirm, you were an almost daily victim of his impatient bluster and bombast. He fired managers and public-relations directors and anybody who didn�t get his lunch order correct.

[Frayed Knot]

The biggest sign of a bully - as JCL called him earlier - is that the lower down on the totem pole you were in the Yanx org the worse you were treated.
It's going to be easy, particularly w/the ASG going on, to get quotes about what a 'tough but fair' guy he was from the group he gave multi-million dollar contracts to and whom he needed more than they needed him. Besides, they all still have to deal with his kids. And, yes, there are numerous Steiny stories - like Mole's - of spontaneous acts of charity. But the good journos* are going to be the ones who'll also track down those of the clubhouse boys he mercilessly mistreated simply because he could and because he had a childish temper which caused him to blame others for his failings, or for losses which were no one fault save for the fact that the other team was trying too, or for just plain bad luck.

There's the one story which George told on himself frequently about how he has/had a secretary who he fired a dozen (or was it dozen[u:ym3duz1m]s[/u:ym3duz1m]?) times. The reason he was the one to relate the story is that he thinks the fact that he always re-hired her back makes him the good guy in the tale.
No it doesn't George.







* I could see Newsday dragging Steve Jacobson out of retirement for a guest column this week. He was the Yanqui beat guy back in the early Stein-years. After a while he realized that what George wanted most was his name in the paper and so Jacobson, when he became a columnist, simply refused to mention him by name, mostly calling him 'That man'.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Guest

[metirish]

Just finished watching CBS New with Katie Couric then the local CBS channel here in NY goes to a CBS Special " Remembering the Boss".....are you fucking kidding me.....

[Guest Kong76]

I'm amazed how many blurbs and blogs there are saying if he owned
the Mets how much better things would have been. The wound lickers
are out in force today with the Vlads, Rods, 'n the like. Ya know, ya don't
HAVE to be a Mets fan if it's that painful for yas ...

[Zvon]

metirish wrote: Just finished watching CBS New with Katie Couric then the local CBS channel here in NY goes to a CBS Special " Remembering the Boss".....are you fucking kidding me.....

I haven't even turned on the TV cause I don't wanna be over saturated.
It'll be enough that tonight's game will be a tribute to him and his name will be mentioned around 714 times.

I think he died last week, but had the time to tell one of his lieutenant's to sit on him til the All Star break.
Sheppard discovered what was goin on and was gonna reveal it, so he had to be knocked off.
That's my story and I'm stickin to it.