Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

[Ceetar]

Fman99 wrote: Seriously. Kick him over to SNY, where he can only hurt people with banal postgame claptrap (see Ojeda, Bob.) I think the ideal Mets hitting coach is another '86 alum, in the booth. Too bad he has no interest in the full time gig. Not that I blame him, the idea of working 110 days per year sounds just ducky to me also.

Sometimes I think just having the SNY audio feed piped into the dugout would be enough to replace Hojo and Warthen both.

[seawolf17]

Ceetar wrote: Fman99 wrote: Seriously. Kick him over to SNY, where he can only hurt people with banal postgame claptrap (see Ojeda, Bob.) I think the ideal Mets hitting coach is another '86 alum, in the booth. Too bad he has no interest in the full time gig. Not that I blame him, the idea of working 110 days per year sounds just ducky to me also. Sometimes I think just having the SNY audio feed piped into the dugout would be enough to replace Hojo and Warthen both.

You know, the team of manager Gary Cohen, hitting coach Keith Hernandez, and pitching coach Ron Darling sounds awfully appealing.

[metirish]

I can't recall Keith and Ron giving anything other than the standard answers / jargon regarding hitting and pitching, certainly they don't offer any thoughts on how to get Bay going or Ollie going...according to Keith Bay has been 'close' for the past two weeks.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: I can't recall Keith and Ron giving anything other than the standard answers / jargon regarding hitting and pitching, certainly they don't offer any thoughts on how to get Bay going or Ollie going...according to Keith Bay has been 'close' for the past two weeks.

I'm constantly hearing Ron say things like "He should throw a low outside fastball here." Keith occasionally makes comments about what to do as a hitter, what to look for. Bay's had a good game here or there, just not power wise. But it's more strategic observations I notice than specific 'fixing' advice.

[Guest Edgy DC]

They are certainly both bright. But coaching is hard work with high stakes, and those two have cashed in their sweat equity a long time ago.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Metirish wrote: I can't recall Keith and Ron giving anything other than the standard answers / jargon regarding hitting and pitching, certainly they don't offer any thoughts on how to get Bay going or Ollie going...according to Keith Bay has been 'close' for the past two weeks.

Were Keith minted as batting coach, and were he to give the media the same access that early-period Peterson did, I suspect that "flying open" would reach a par with "battling" in terms of haunting Mets fans' ears. And as good as Darling is at explaining inside-baseball-- both jargon and clubhouse/coach-type stuff-- to initiates (my Mom loves him)... that's no guarantor that he'd be any great shakes at motivating/correcting guys who are in the game.

Let them do what they do well.

[Centerfield]

I seem to be in the minority here, and perhaps the bad taste of Willie Randolph is still to fresh, but I really like Jerry Manuel. I think he's personable, funny, and it really seems like he has a great relationship with his players while also maintaining their respect. I like that he's not some idiot out there arguing every call, but that he brings the fight when he feels wronged. I think he's a great mixture of calm and fire. Personality wise, I think he's better suited for the managerial position than even Bobby Valentine.

I just don't think he's very smart. His in-game decisions are questionable, his love of bunting is driving me nutty, and I don't understand why the team played such bad fundamental baseball last year (though this year, they are much, much better).

I am all for replacing Jerry with Bobby Valentine, because I think he is the best overall fit for the Mets. (You give away some "personable" but you get a lot more "smart" and "interesting".) But if it's going to be some of these other hacks, I'd just as soon keep Jerry.

[metirish]

WOW, as I was reading the first paragraph I thought someone must have broken in to your account CF....the first line of the second paragraph eased my worries......seriously though, Jerry seems like a nice guy but I am at the point in our relationship were everything thing he does irritates me. Someone needs to go.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I've got nothing against his personality. I've got everything against his bullpen usage and his bunting. It's just seems so doomed, especially after seeing bullpens break down in past years. I root not for his axing, but his awakening, but I fear the team is losing confidence in his leadership and in themselves.

[Centerfield]

Edgy DC wrote: I've got nothing against his personality. I've got everything against his bullpen usage and his bunting.

Exactly. To clarify my post earlier, when I say "questionable", I mean "really, really bad".

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Centerfield wrote: I seem to be in the minority here, and perhaps the bad taste of Willie Randolph is still to fresh, but I really like Jerry Manuel. I think he's personable, funny, and it really seems like he has a great relationship with his players while also maintaining their respect. I like that he's not some idiot out there arguing every call, but that he brings the fight when he feels wronged. I think he's a great mixture of calm and fire. Personality wise, I think he's better suited for the managerial position than even Bobby Valentine.

He's married.

So are you, with a beeyoot of a kid, nonetheless.

Take it easy, brother.

[Frayed Knot]

I don't dislike Jerry either and I suspect some of the things that seem to bother people about him: the chuckling, the over-used phrases, etc., wouldn't even be noticed if the team weren't floundering around out there -- just like for me the way what I found annoying about Fran Healy drove me even more batty during lousy games.
It's just that at some point "mgmt" - whether that means Omar or Jeffie or whoever - are going to have to decide whether the way JM runs his game strategy is what they want in a field manager. If it doesn't bother them then he very well might be here for a while. If it does I wonder if they have a notion about how the likely fill-ins would do differently and how/if that would figure into their decision.

Of course if Reyes is going to continue to pop-up for a living and Bay stays a very expensive singles hitter than none of this is going to matter. At least not much.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Frayed Knot wrote: I don't dislike Jerry either and I suspect some of the things that seem to bother people about him: the chuckling, the over-used phrases, etc., wouldn't even be noticed if the team weren't floundering around out there -- just like for me the way what I found annoying about Fran Healy drove me even more batty during lousy games. It's just that at some point "mgmt" - whether that means Omar or Jeffie or whoever - are going to have to decide whether the way JM runs his game strategy is what they want in a field manager. If it doesn't bother them then he very well might be here for a while. If it does I wonder if they have a notion about how the likely fill-ins would do differently and how/if that would figure into their decision. Of course if Reyes is going to continue to pop-up for a living and Bay stays a very expensive singles hitter than none of this is going to matter. At least not much.

This is sort of where I am. Part of his problem is that he's way too passive and doesn't manage particularly well day to day; the other is that he's been given a less than perfect team to work with.

[Benjamin Grimm]

A manager has a number of roles. One of them is in-game strategy, but that's not the only thing. It is, however, the thing that's most apparent to us. And I think that most of us agree that it's a weakness for Jerry, not a strength.

But the Mets are going to judge him on all facets of the job. If they like the other stuff, then they're less likely to fire him because of in-game strategy. (He bunts too much, he doesn't know how to handle a relief staff...)

If the losses pile up, he'll eventually get canned, of course. And then his in-game moves, his schmoozing, his player relations, etc. won't save him. But the losses haven't piled up quite yet. The Mets actually are still above .500. I think that 8-game winning streak bought Jerry a bit of time. I don't see a firing before June 1, at the earliest.

And it's possible that the Mets may make the playoffs in spite of Jerry's moves. (Not likely, but possible, if the talent that they have finds a way to gel.) And if that happens, we'll still be kvetching about Jerry in 2011.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I just think he deals with the team playing poorly by trying to solve problems himself --- bunt for single runs because they're not hitting, use the same pitchers daily because he doesn't trust the others, play the stars and rest the secondary players because he can't afford to sit them the way the team is hitting.

A manager shouldn't find answers in strategy, but in the players themselves. Find opportunties for everybody to show what they bring to the table, and if they don't bring anything, for pity's sake, find someone who does.

Get Carter his at-bats. Bat Reyes second not for any political reason, but because it compromises his speed game with his RBI game. Let pitchers pitching well pitch. Take a lesson from the strengths movement, and stop trying to solve all the problems (you will never bullet-proof the pen, even if you're given 10,000 games to try) and instead focus on the liberating the strengths of these beautiful players.

YEAH!

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Free to Be... You and Manuel?

[Frayed Knot]

It could be worse I suppose.
You could have Ron Gardenhire intentionally walking Teixeira to load the bases and then specifically bring in Matt Guerrier to face Alex Rodriguez even though Rodriguez was 4 for 7 with 3 HRs against him.
Two pitches later he was 5 for 8 with 4 HRs and the Twins 1-run lead was now a 3-run deficit.

[ashie62]

My issues with Manuel are his allowing so much bunting. As in of late letting your #3 hitter bunt, especially with men on? I have tired of Jerry's mix n match bullpen. I also am weary of his postgame press confidence. What appears to be honest I know take as flippant.

Firing? If it happens I'll go with after the next underwhelming road trip.

[MFS62]

Much has been said over the years (including on the CPF) about how Dallas Green ruined an entire generation (K) of top pitching prospects by mis-use. And much has been posted here about Jerry's overwork of some pitchers.
I'm more concerned about any strategic (long term) effect Jerry doing that may have on some of the current pitchers, rather than any particular tactical (in-game) decision.
Not that I'm defending any particular in-game decision but stuff happens.

As for when he gets fired? I don't do grisly predictions.

Later

[ashie62]

For bold death predictions one can try this

http://www.tombclock.com/

[Zvon]

Ashie62 wrote: For bold death predictions one can try this http://www.tombclock.com/

lol. ty Ashie

[Guest Kong76]

Omar on his way to Hotlanta according to Post Game Live.
Maybe they'll Willie Jerry later.

[Zvon]

The day the Mets are 7 games out.

Even tho I truly feel that its Omar who shud pack his bags.
Thats surprising to me cuz I've always been an Omar supporter.
But his agenda has hurt the team at this point.
Two contracts that keep on hittin me over the head: Castillo and Perez.
Castillo is not as bad as I thought he would end up being, not by far,
but he was not worth what he was given. No way.
Perez? Hope in one hand and shit in the other.
He gambled. Looks like a big loss at this point.

Better yet, I hope the Wilpons sell the team.
Whats Doubleday up to these days?

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I have no idea of the actual date, but it has to be much closer after this sweep at the hands of the Marlins. This team seems stuck in reverse.

[ashie62]

Rockin' Doc wrote: I have no idea of the actual date, but it has to be much closer after this sweep at the hands of the Marlins. This team seems stuck in reverse.

They are certainly not stuck in overdrive

[ashie62]

Cut the cord with Manuel. It is time to start working to rebuild and remove the fart cloud that has enveloped this team since 09/07

[Guest Edgy DC]

Here goes the tabloid drumbeat.

He actually comes close to making a useful argument in paragraph two, describing him as "the manager whose message no longer resonates and whose vision is no longer focused." Those are two good reasons to move on, but rather than support them (and they certainly are supportable), he resorts to tired arguments that amount to the team is losing, somebody got hurt, it's upsetting, whack the guy.

[metirish]

Points for not going with Howe here

You know whom Manuel sounds like when he constantly praises his team for not quitting? He sounds like Rich Kotite. Absent anything resembling a representative Jets team back in the day, Kotite made playing hard sound like a sacrament rather than a job requirement. It is of little consequence that the Mets play hard more often than not; they also lose more often than not.

I didn't see much of this series.....watched a movie Saturday night and went to the Zoo yesterday..

[Benjamin Grimm]

It seems pretty clear that the goodwill that came from that eight-game winning streak is already completely gone. And it evaporated even sooner than I thought it would.

[Frayed Knot]

metirish wrote: I didn't see much of this series.....watched a movie Saturday night and went to the Zoo yesterday..

Well, Saturday's game was like seeing a bad movie and Sunday's was like watching monkeys play ball ... so you sort of did see them.