IGT 4/17/10 - Johan Begins The Turnaround

[Frayed Knot]

PotG is going to take some careful examination here.
More than ever this one is about when and how each player made his contribution as opposed to just the pure stats.

Cora, Takahashi (getting out of that 1st-3rd/none out sit.), Blanco's caught stealings, etc.

[metirish]

Jerry on the post game said the reason Pelf pitched is because Mike lobbied to get in the game.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I wasn't in the IGT, but was watching on a slight TiVo delay.

I'd have to say that Jerry outmanaged the genius [crossout:2ocpogxw]this afternoon[/crossout:2ocpogxw] tonight.

[batmagadanleadoff]

So where were you on 7/4/85?

[metirish]

K-Rod says his arm was dead, thinks he threw over 100 pitches warming up.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Jerry on the post game said the reason Pelf pitched is because Mike lobbied to get in the game.[/quote:19szuvfn]

Cool. So when's Assistant GM Adam Rubin going to speak on the matter?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

So where were you on 7/4/85?[/quote:3sk5qntx]

I was enjoying the brief period in New York State history when the legal drinking age was 19 but not yet 21.

I'd missed 18, and it would be 21 the following New Year's Eve, so those few months would be all I had for a year-and-a-half.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

So where were you on 7/4/85?[/quote:2c3g8pi7]

Healing from a summer camp wrist fracture, sippin' on Ssips, wishing I was Doc. Or Michael Jackson. Or Hulk Hogan.

[metirish]

Is this Cora sitting next to Pelf?

[Guest Edgy DC]

I was lamenting Gooden's first bad start of the year.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I was enjoying a brief period of unemployment between college graduation and starting my first job. I remember thinking how glad I was that I didn't have to go to work in the morning. I remember watching until 4 a.m., as McCarver and Zabriskie kept getting goofier and goofier, and Ralph kept getting crankier and crankier.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I was out on a date. When I came back somewhere between 1 and 2 a.m., I was pleasantly surprised to discover that the Mets game was still being played.

Are there any forum members who were born after that game was played?

[G-Fafif]

2010: Downstairs cursing out everybody and everything until it worked, as recorded here.

1985: All over the South Shore of Long Island (not far from where I sit, but somehow a quarter-century away), as recalled here.

I'm sure it was said pages and pages ago, but Eff LaRussa.

[ashie62]

1985: Playing in a rockabilly band

[stevejrogers]

K-Rod says his arm was dead, thinks he threw over 100 pitches warming up.[/quote:1qlko9ds]

Weak excuse for an All Star, "record breaking" closer to make.

[stevejrogers]

I think we come back tomorrow, kick butt and call April 17 the day the season turned around.[/quote:2euq7q91]

Great, I'll get the Delorian and go back to 1985.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I say Maine has to go six innings tonight, no matter how much he may get clobbered.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

So where were you on 7/4/85?[/quote:2w57pn3d]

Started the day at my parents' house for a barbecue, dropped my wife and son at home and went to work the midnight shift at the ADP Data Center at 42 Broadway. I listened to the end of the game on the radio. It got me through a good chunk of the shift.

[Guest Edgy DC]

K-Rod says his arm was dead, thinks he threw over 100 pitches warming up.[/quote:vnmnh4oy]

Weak excuse for an All Star, "record breaking" closer to make.[/quote:vnmnh4oy]
Give me a break.

[Valadius]

On 7/4/85, I was about a year and a half away from being born.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

On 7/4/85 my wife and I were enjoying the Independence Day festivities at Grant Park in Chicago with another couple. I had recently graduated with my doctorate in late May and had my (current) job lined up, but still had to pass the NC State Board in August in order to be allowed to work. Most of the time I was studying 8-10 hours a day, but I'm sure I took a few days off around Independence Day.


Valadius - "On 7/4/85, I was about a year and a half away from being born."

You missed out on a great year in 1986. Hopefully, the Mets will provide you with a championship to savor in the reasonably near future.

[Gwreck]

So I missed this game...did anything interesting happen?

In all seriousness, Jerry Manuel being outmanaged by Tony LaRussa, after LaRussa gave up on the game, is embarrassing.

[MFS62]

So where were you on 7/4/85?[/quote:3sg13i13]
Are you kidding?
I can't remember what I had for breakfast.

Later

[soupcan]

K-Rod says his arm was dead, thinks he threw over 100 pitches warming up.[/quote:3a7bsmq9]

Weak excuse for an All Star, "record breaking" closer to make.[/quote:3a7bsmq9]
Give me a break.[/quote:3a7bsmq9]

I'll buy that from Frankie - 100 pitches is 100 pitches. It does beg the question though - did Jerry mismange his pen last night and what's up with the communication there? "Hey Skip, K-Rod's thrown over 50 pitches out here so far, if you're gonna use him, NOW (whatever point in the game 'now' may have been) might be the time..."

[metirish]

Because Rodriguez is the "closer" Manuel had to keep him for that situation.


Scanning the St' Louis Post Dispatch and LaRussa is getting fairly hammered for his managing of the game, On Holiday he said eh got all he could form him , remember he was sick....

"It's real obvious, if you double-switch Holliday out of the game, unless you have a really deep bench, you've got a problem," La Russa said. "But I looked at five at-bats for a guy who got punched out three times, who's obviously not himself � he's forcing it. I think it's kind of criminal to leave him in the game The way the game turned out, maybe (Holliday) would have won it before that, but if he had to play another four, five innings?" La Russa said. "Nah. I have no regrets about that. ... Matt had given us more than what he had to give, and that was enough."

Of course some of their fans think Manuel out-managed LaRussa.....


http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/D975D6A9FE1719B88625770900100907?OpenDocument

[batmagadanleadoff]

On 7/4/85, I was about a year and a half away from being born.[/quote:3eflzghb]

Jeez Vlad, you're championshipless.

[Frayed Knot]

To me it's more like LaRussa under-managed Jerry. Hard to claim that anyone out-managed anyone during that fiasco.


As far as Frankie Rod: I suspect the "100" pitches in the pen is likely an exaggeration. Watching via a network it's tough to tell how often or how long he was up because they've always got so many other things going on so I have no actual idea, but it's a condition of today's game that the closer is so often "saved" for the situation which may never come up that he often warms up more than once in anticipation of the spot which may or may not come up.
I'd just rather he use him earlier and hopefully for longer and get it all over with.

[metirish]

Hard to claim that anyone out-managed anyone during that fiasco.

.[/quote:1svukzps]

exactly


Rodriguez said he got up to get ready 10 times, throwing full bore for a lot of them.....believe what we will I suppose, he didn't look all that sharp when he did get a chance.

[Guest Edgy DC]

K-Rod says his arm was dead, thinks he threw over 100 pitches warming up.[/quote:1sz3gqjv]
Weak excuse for an All Star, "record breaking" closer to make.[/quote:1sz3gqjv]
Give me a break.[/quote:1sz3gqjv]
I'll buy that from Frankie - 100 pitches is 100 pitches. It does beg the question though - did Jerry mismange his pen last night and what's up with the communication there? "Hey Skip, K-Rod's thrown over 50 pitches out here so far, if you're gonna use him, NOW (whatever point in the game 'now' may have been) might be the time..."[/quote:1sz3gqjv]
Exactly, which is the umpteenth reason why sitting on your closer in extra innings is counterproductive.

Thiink of it as a hourglass. As you approach the ninth, you should move from the lesser-effectiveness/greater-innings pitchers toward the greater-effectiveness/lesser-innings pitchers. From the ninth onward, you move in the opposite direction.

This should be an article of faith with managers.

[smg58]

I watched the first part of the 7/4/85 game. I can't remember what inning it was when I thought "this could go on all night" and went to bed, but I do remember waking up the next morning to discover I was more right about that little detail than I had expected. I remember being happy the Mets won, but the defining highlight was Danny Heep raising his hands in exasperation as the Rick Camp home run sailed over his head.