It's Dawson. Just Dawson

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

So says AP in a newsroom scroll.

Blyleven 74.2 percent, Alomar 73.3 percent

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

wtf

[TransMonk]

I'm not opposed to Dawson, but c'mon.

[HahnSolo]

Did Hirschbeck have a vote?

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

One vote for each probably would have done it.

[Guest Edgy DC]

How many years on the ballot is that for Blyleven?

I guess an MVP takes you a long way.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

I think this was No. 13, and has two more.

So Heyman can take pride in keeping him out with all those lame-assed excuses he made.

[G-Fafif]

Who knew so many voters watched the 2002 and 2003 Mets so closely?

[G-Fafif]

Re: other Mets not voted in:-- Seven votes for Robin, one for Segui, one for Appier, none for Zeile -- not even frequent flyer points.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

One vote for each probably would have done it.

Thank Jay Mariotti, a complete douchehandle, who remarked in a recent chat:

Now, the baseball gods can strike me down, Reali (sic), but guess what? I didn�t vote for anybody in the baseball hall of fame this year. Ya know why? To me�the first ballot is sacred. I think Roberto Alomar is an eventual Hall of Famer, not the first time. Edgar Martinez, designated hitter, eventually, but not the first time. Same goes for maybe Fred McGriff. As far as Blyleven and Dawson�if they haven�t gotten in for years and years I cannot vote them in now. Ripken, Rickey Henderson and Gwynn. They are true first ballot Hall of Famers, but I didn�t vote for anybody, throw me out of the Baseball Writers. I don�t care.

here's more on that irresponsible dickhead:

http://www.baseballink.com/archives/stories/mariotti-volunteers-to-be-thrown-out-of-the-bbwaa-4061053

[Guest Edgy DC]

Zeile's numbers would look a lot sweeter with ", c" after his name.

It's Torre's revenge.

[Centerfield]

One vote for each probably would have done it. Thank Jay Mariotti, a complete douchehandle, who remarked in a recent chat: Now, the baseball gods can strike me down, Reali (sic), but guess what? I didn�t vote for anybody in the baseball hall of fame this year. Ya know why? To me�the first ballot is sacred. I think Roberto Alomar is an eventual Hall of Famer, not the first time. Edgar Martinez, designated hitter, eventually, but not the first time. Same goes for maybe Fred McGriff. As far as Blyleven and Dawson�if they haven�t gotten in for years and years I cannot vote them in now. Ripken, Rickey Henderson and Gwynn. They are true first ballot Hall of Famers, but I didn�t vote for anybody, throw me out of the Baseball Writers. I don�t care. here's more on that irresponsible dickhead: http://www.baseballink.com/archives/stories/mariotti-volunteers-to-be-thrown-out-of-the-bbwaa-4061053

This is what I was talking about when I said certain guys should be stripped of their vote.

I'm guessing he would care if they threw him out.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Saying that the "first ballot is sacred" is stupid.

I'm surprised Alomar didn't get in.

[Guest Edgy DC]

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Forget "first ballot" is sacred... in literally his next breath, he says that he won't vote for Blyleven and Dawson because they didn't get in earlier. Forget stripping him of his HOF voting privileges-- Mariotti should be stripped of his press credentials, period. He's a dishonorable, self-contradicting hack... and worst of all, he's boring. [My favorite writing about Mariotti, addressing his cowardly exit from the Sun-Times last year-- preach on, brother Roger!]

I wonder who the old Arizona guy voted for. His reasoning can't be any more convoluted than Heyman's or Mariotti's.

[Guest Edgy DC]

See, I'm less pissed at Mariotti than I am at ESPN, Yahoo, and whoever else who give gobshites like him a voice.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

The announcement's over at the BBWAA site (which was recently updated from c. 1986-style to c. 1996-style-- bully!).

405 were needed for election. Blyleven got 400, Alomar 397. (They would have been one vote less short, had 5 writers not gone to the trouble of submitting blank ballots. Awesome!)

Dropping off the ballot: Baines, Galarraga, Ventura, Burks, Karros, Appier, Hentgen, Segui, Jackson, Lankford, Reynolds, and Zeile.

What I'm wondering is when the HOF-- a beautifully-designed little museum, with pretty terribly run entry protocols-- becomes the Academy Awards of baseball: something that's fun to look at, but not something any SERIOUS baseball scholar ever looks at as anything but an entertaining trifle?

[Frayed Knot]

Count me among those who had no idea Mariotti was even a member of the BBWAA.
I guess that means he actually covered the sport at one time but, to me, he's just an ESPN dickhead who only talks loudly on TV but rarely about baseball and when he does it's only to either knock it or tell us that you don't pay attention anymore.

And if you want to turn in a blank ballot at least do so for non-dickhead reasons.

[Chad ochoseis]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Dropping off the ballot: Baines, Galarraga, Ventura, Burks, Karros, Appier, Hentgen, Segui, Jackson, Lankford, Reynolds, and Zeile.

Baines stays on, actually (6.1% of the vote). The rest of the post, yeah, pretty much on the mark.

[Frayed Knot]

The winner plus those who live to fight another day.
539 votes cast, 405 needed for induction

----	VOTES	Pct
Andre Dawson	420	77.9%
Bert Blyleven	400	74.2%
Roberto Alomar	397	73.7%
Jack Morris	282	52.3%
Barry Larkin	278	51.6%
Lee Smith	255	47.3%
Edgar Martinez	195	36.2%
Tim Raines	164	30.4%
Mark McGwire	128	23.7%
Alan Trammel	121	22.4%
Fred McGriff	116	21.5%
Don Mattingly	87	16.1%
Dave Parker	82	15.2%
Dale Murphy	63	11.7%
Harold Baines	33	6.1%

[RealityChuck]

Why anyone goes along with this "first ballot" crap is beyond me. If the person deserve to be in the HOF, then getting in on the first ballot is no different from getting in on the second.

It's a hangover from the 40s when the hall was catching up on all the players who had been retired for years. Newly retired players had to wait, since the voters wanted to induct older players before they died. But it turned into the "Hank Greenberg didn't make it his first year, and you're no Hank Greenberg" fallacy.

[Frayed Knot]

Older players used to not make it on their first try because they didn't have the 5-year rule way back when and so there was this 'we'll get around to you' mentality that existed while they tended to the older folks and made sure the younger ones actually stayed retired*.
And, in a way, that era is still affecting this one as some take the attitude that since DiMaggio didn't make it in year one than nobody else deserves to either as that would represent some kind of insult to Joe D. I had hoped that attitude was dying out as the DiMag-era worshippers ... I mean writers did too, but apparently not.









* In the NHL, Guy LaFleur came back as an active player after he was in the HoF in what struck a lot of people as strange if not embarrassing.
Similarly, the NFL seems to want to wait on Parcells because you never know when and where he'll resurface (or quit) again.

[ashie62]

The announcement's over at the BBWAA site (which was recently updated from c. 1986-style to c. 1996-style-- bully!). 405 were needed for election. Blyleven got 400, Alomar 397. (They would have been one vote less short, had 5 writers not gone to the trouble of submitting blank ballots. Awesome!) Dropping off the ballot: Baines, Galarraga, Ventura, Burks, Karros, Appier, Hentgen, Segui, Jackson, Lankford, Reynolds, and Zeile. What I'm wondering is when the HOF-- a beautifully-designed little museum, with pretty terribly run entry protocols-- becomes the Academy Awards of baseball: something that's fun to look at, but not something any SERIOUS baseball scholar ever looks at as anything but an entertaining trifle?

It already is...congrats Andre*

[Benjamin Grimm]

Frayed Knot wrote: * In the NHL, Guy LaFleur came back as an active player after he was in the HoF in what struck a lot of people as strange if not embarrassing.

I remember Jim Palmer made an attempted comeback after he was inducted. He actually went to spring training with the Orioles, I think. I remember rooting for him to make it, just to see the novelty of an active Hall of Famer.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Dropping off the ballot: Baines, Galarraga, Ventura, Burks, Karros, Appier, Hentgen, Segui, Jackson, Lankford, Reynolds, and Zeile. Baines stays on, actually (6.1% of the vote). The rest of the post, yeah, pretty much on the mark.

I don't see the point of all your fussing over numbers. To me, Baines feels like he's dropped off the ballot, so I'll treat him as such.

Why anyone goes along with this "first ballot" crap is beyond me. If the person deserve to be in the HOF, then getting in on the first ballot is no different from getting in on the second. It's a hangover from the 40s when the hall was catching up on all the players who had been retired for years. Newly retired players had to wait, since the voters wanted to induct older players before they died. But it turned into the "Hank Greenberg didn't make it his first year, and you're no Hank Greenberg" fallacy.

I'd wager that a significant number of the younger first-ballot conservatives don't even know exactly WHY the custom took hold. When I hear a-holes like Mariotti or Shaughnessy, it feels like the management-class construct: the third generation of monkeys telling the fourth not to reach for the once-protected-by-electrified-plates bananas in the middle of the room. Why? Because we've always done it that way.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: * In the NHL, Guy LaFleur came back as an active player after he was in the HoF in what struck a lot of people as strange if not embarrassing. I remember Jim Palmer made an attempted comeback after he was inducted. He actually went to spring training with the Orioles, I think. I remember rooting for him to make it, just to see the novelty of an active Hall of Famer.

By the way, I completely support this, and moreover, completely support changing the criteria to say "20 Years (or 25 or Whatever) from the Person's Debut in Professional Baseball." I think a few active Hall of Famer, with a sleeve patch and all, would be a trip. I certainly don't see the point in waiting until a manager appears to be five years out before inducting him. Five years out from managing for some of these long-time managing guys puts more than a few of them pretty close to the grave.

[smg58]

G-Fafif wrote: Who knew so many voters watched the 2002 and 2003 Mets so closely?

That's exactly what I was thinking. Either that or they're friends of the ump he spat on. Still, if he retired after 2001 would there even be debate?

Fortunately, Blyleven's showing suggests that he's going to get in on one of his last two tries. He should have been in years ago, and I can't believe it's taking this long and we still have to debate this, but I do think he'll ultimately get where he belongs.

[seawolf17]

Lee Smith got more votes than Tim Raines. That's fucking insane.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Dwight Evans, whose career I'd take over Dawson's nine times out of ten.

Year	Election	Votes	Pct
1997	BBWAA	28	5.9%
1998	BBWAA	49	10.4%
1999	BBWAA	18	3.6% and Out

Should have had a cooler nickname.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Edgy DC wrote: Dwight Evans, whose career I'd take over Dawson's nine times out of ten. Year Election Votes Pct 1997 BBWAA 28 5.9% 1998 BBWAA 49 10.4% 1999 BBWAA 18 3.6% and Out Should have had a cooler nickname.

How or why the hell ornery Boston fans rallied around Fenway Phantom Jim Rice and not Dewey, I'll never know.