2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting

[nymr83]

[Guest Edgy DC]

LWFS gives a pretty compelling argument for Edgy Martinez. That career .418 OBP is tastey.

He was borderline no for me. But I'm preparing myself to switch to a borderlline yes.

[Frayed Knot]

[MFS62]

Then in how many games does a player have to wear a glove before he crosses the border? Martinez' 3 - 4 seasons is too few IMO. It is less than half of the 10 year eligibility required for the Hall. And I feel if you let him in, it is (channelling Law and Order here) a "slippery slope".
Frank Thomas will be a more interesting case because he at least tried to play a position (some would say horrifically, if there is such a word) for most of his career.

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't think it's a question of how many years or games or such he played defense, but how much he didn't accomplish there vs. how much he did accomplish above and beyond elsewise.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Then in how many games does a player have to wear a glove before he crosses the border? Martinez' 3 - 4 seasons is too few IMO. It is less than half of the 10 year eligibility required for the Hall. And I feel if you let him in, it is (channelling Law and Order here) a "slippery slope".

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

You could make a case that Thomas-- not to mention each one of an elephant's shitload of HOFed oldsters-- would've been more valuable to his teams as a full-time DH, and that Edgar was therefore MORE valuable than an equivalent-hitting number-- McCovey, say-- of the subpar-fielding, supreme-batting all-time squad.

It would probably feel a lot more weaselly than it actually is, but you could make that argument.

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

[Benjamin Grimm]

Well, we know that there are at least 23 voters (since that's how many Alomar got) which means that for 75%, a player needs at least 18 votes.

So if Alomar was named on every ballot, that means that he, Blyleven, and Martinez are in, and Raines and Larkin fall just short.

(As of now, Alomar has 23 votes, Blyleven 19, Martinez 18, Larkin and Raines 17.)

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, the flags suggest we have 12 ballots cast, which suggests Alomar has been named 193% of all ballots! Take that, Seaver!

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Well, the flags suggest we have 12 ballots cast, which suggests Alomar has been named 193% of all ballots! Take that, Seaver!

[bmfc1]

If it helps your count, I voted. I wanted to vote for no one but didn't have that option.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Yeah! Raise the flag!

[HahnSolo]

Umm, here's my flag.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Seven from me:

Roberto Alomar, Bert Blyleven, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Mark McGwire, Tim Raines, Alan Trammell.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

If it helps your count, I voted. I wanted to vote for no one but didn't have that option.[/quote:34peocb6]

Curious: PED/character issues, or baseball-achievement issues?

[bmfc1]

If it helps your count, I voted. I wanted to vote for no one but didn't have that option.[/quote:1r1b445f]
Curious: PED/character issues, or baseball-achievement issues?[/quote:1r1b445f]

Thanks for asking. I want to see Keith, Gil and Marvin Miller in before anyone else so I've adopted a childish stance: if they aren't in, no one gets in.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Trammell looks like he's falling short. I'd like to know why. There are 21 shortstops in the hall of fame (including Ernie Banks, John Ward, George Davis and mebbe a few others that played significant portions of their careers at other positions). Throw Larkin, A-Rod and Schmerrick Schmeeter in with that list. BBTF's hall of merit has 25 shortstops, throwing Bill Dahlen, Jack Glasscock, Pop Lloyd, Dick Lundy, Dobie Moore, Dickey Pearce, Willie Wells, George Wright and (natch) Alan Trammell into the discussion. That's 32 shortstops, ostensibly the best that ever played.

Where does Trammell fit on that list for you? Chone Smith ranks him the 11th best shortstop of all time (69th best position player overall). I don't see him much lower than, say, seventeen, if you can even drop him that far. What did he do wrong?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Thanks for asking. I want to see Keith, Gil and Marvin Miller in before anyone else so I've adopted a childish stance: if they aren't in, no one gets in.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Trammell's a hero out here. Nice guy, too, from all reports. Whitaker deserved better than he got in the voting, too, dropping off very early. Tram's misfortune is that he came along just as Skank-Rod and Cal were changing the position.

Like Dawson, there would be worse players in the Hall if Tram got in.

[G-Fafif]

I'd vote for Roberto Alomar if he'd agree to retire before 2002.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Like Dawson, there would be worse players in the Hall if Tram got in.[/quote:1maddefs]


Yabbut, unlike Dawson, the Hall wouldn't be worse with him in it.

And by worse, I just mean Dawson is below the standards of the Hall (outside of the Maranville- or Tinker-type mistakes) while Trammell is well within those standards.

[Valadius]

[Valadius]

Update from Baseball Think Factory:

Hall of Fame Ballot Gathering Machine % Leaderboard after 84 Full Ballots� 88.1 - Alomar 81.0 - Blyleven 81.0 - Dawson 58.3 - Larkin 51.2 - J. Morris 42.9 - T. Raines 42.9 - Edgar 40.5 - Lee Smith 32.1 - McGwire 26.2 - Trammell 21.4 - McGriff 9.5 - D. Murphy 9.5 - Baines 9.5 - Parker 7.1 - Mattingly Top Partial Ballot Leaders� (112 Full/Partials) 80 - Alomar 77 - Dawson 74 - Blyleven

I think Mattingly has a great shot of falling off the ballot this year. The collective sound of MFY fans' heads exploding will be delicious.

[Chad ochoseis]

Alomar, Larkin, Blyleven, Martinez

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/01/04/heyman.hall/index.html

Heyman's explanations are so out there, that they're a must read.

[G-Fafif]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/01/04/heyman.hall/index.html

Heyman's explanations are so out there, that they're a must read.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I disagree with Heyman a lot but never have I read so long and seen almost nothing there to agree or disagree with. After paragraph after paragraph getting around to why he didn't vote for Blyleven, he says nothing and nothing and nothing, until finally saying he didn't get enough Cy Young support.

And then, it's pretty much a monstrosity along the lines of:
"The numerically inclined may number numbers as a reason to vote for his impressive numbers. Me, I don't number his numbers un-impressive for a Hall of FAME, but I notice that his Cy Young numbers and the numbers he garnered during his first years of candidacy don't meet my numerical standards."

[MFS62]

I disagree with Heyman a lot but never have I read so long and seen almost nothing there to agree or disagree with. After paragraph after paragraph getting around to why he didn't vote for Blyleven, he says nothing and nothing and nothing, until finally saying he didn't get enough Cy Young support.

And then, it's pretty much a monstrosity along the lines of:
"The numerically inclined may number numbers as a reason to vote for his impressive numbers. Me, I don't number his numbers un-impressive for a Hall of FAME, but I notice that his Cy Young numbers and the numbers he garnered during his first years of candidacy don't meet my numerical standards."[/quote:32r4tzxa]
He should be locked in a warm, humid room, and have his columns piped in over the PA system, read by an automated voice. The automated voice would be reading them with more brains than it took him to write them.

Later