Left Field 2010

[Guest Edgy DC]

Maybe I spelled it wrong.[/quote:386k6m8c]
You were nowhere close.

And Frayed Knot is giving you too much credit. You're not claiming it's the players refusing to come here because of these things that sound kind of like words, but their agents steering them away. Agents advising their clients to turn down the most money over multi-year deals.

Agents, as a group --- except somehow for the agents fo all those players Frayed Knot cites? Really? You really think that's a sustainable argument?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Peter Gammons did a live-radio interview with the Red Sox radio network a few days ago. Here's a highlight of what Gammons had to say about free agent Jason Bay:

I think [bay would] rather be playing in Beirut than Queens.... I think in Jason�s case, it would have been really easy to take 4 x 15 [million dollars] in July, which I thought, actually, at the time was a little bit high as an offer. It was clear that the Red Sox just wanted to get him signed and get him out of the way. While the Mets offer is four [years] for 65 [million], it�s so backloaded that I�ve been told by Mets people that it�s far less than what the Red Sox were offering in present-day value. And he obviously doesn�t want to play there.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2009/12/25/peter-gammons-on-dale-holley/

[Guest Edgy DC]

I can believe that the backloading of the Mets offer makes the contracts comparable. But the Beirut thing is Gammons talking, and he has a professional interest in Bay coming back to Boston.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

hey, Gammons...

[Frayed Knot]

Peter Gammons did a live-radio interview with the Red Sox radio network a few days ago. Here's a highlight of what Gammons had to say about free agent Jason Bay:

I think [bay would] rather be playing in Beirut than Queens.... I think in Jason�s case, it would have been really easy to take 4 x 15 [million dollars] in July, which I thought, actually, at the time was a little bit high as an offer. It was clear that the Red Sox just wanted to get him signed and get him out of the way. While the Mets offer is four [years] for 65 [million], it�s so backloaded that I�ve been told by Mets people that it�s far less than what the Red Sox were offering in present-day value. And he obviously doesn�t want to play there.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2009/12/25/peter-gammons-on-dale-holley/

[Guest Edgy DC]

Jason Bay --- The One-Man Trend.

[metirish]

The guy isn't a Mets player and I'm sick of him already.

[ashie62]

Jason Bay --- The One-Man Trend.[/quote:2m8xsaed]


you forgot Lackey

[Benjamin Grimm]

Lackey never, as far as we know, got an offer from the Mets, so it's hard to argue that he snubbed them in any way.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I didn't forget a thing.

[Mex17]

You saw what you saw and by that have concluded that players all over MLB are of a collective mindset to refuse to come here for fear of their health based on ... ummm, Bay not signing yet?

[metirish]

Holliday?

Bay may be Mets' backup plan By: Rob Bradford Speaking at the ninth annual "21 Days of Clemente" in New York, honoring the late Roberto Clemente, Mets general manager Omar Minaya told NY Sports Day that his team is, indeed, still interested in free agent outfielder Matt Holliday, as well as Jason Bay. "We are pursuing Matt Holliday," Minaya said. "It seems to be easier to make a deal for Jason Bay." It appears the St. Louis Cardinals have made the biggest push to sign Holliday, although according to ESPN.com if that plan falls through the Cards would turn their attention to pitching rather than make a run at Bay. In other Hot Stove news, the Chicago Tribune is reporting that the Yankees may have interest in free agent outfielder Jermaine Dye.

Not sure what Omar's quote means right there.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't know either. I guess the best way I can take it is that Holliday has a first choice in the Cardinals (and is perhaps not fielding other offers until he's hit a standstill there), while Bay is currently wide open.

[Benjamin Grimm]

They could have dropped a key word when quoting him. (Or maybe Omar himself dropped it.)

But the quote would make more sense in the context of the article, and would be a minor bombshell (if that's not an oxymoron) if this is what he actually said:

"We are pursuing Matt Holliday," Minaya said. "It seems to be easier {than} to make a deal for Jason Bay."

[Frayed Knot]

I read it as:
* "We are pursuing Matt Holliday," -- Translation: despite what you may have heard, we're not exclusively Bay-ophiles
* "It seems to be easier to make a deal for Jason Bay -- Translation: we pursued Bay earlier and harder because we assumed a deal for him would come easier ... IOW, no Boras

[MFS62]

Joel Sheehan at BP has a great post up about the Mets and what he thinks they should do this off-season. It's a subscription site, so I can only post a few snippets:

"With so many suitors finding other answers, both Jason Bay and Matt Holliday are still available, and presumably at a price that gets a little better every day. I've recommended staying away from both, as both are declining stocks, good-but-not-great players likely to be overpaid because of their status as the top guys in a weak year. The Mets, however, are a special case, a big-market club with some money to spend, a core that would allow either player to be the fifth-best on the team, and a short time horizon. For the Mets, Matt Holliday could make sense, as he's a gap-to-gap hitter who should play well in Citi Field, he's good enough defensively to cover ground in those same gaps, and he fits within the payroll parameters. Bay would likely be less expensive and require a shorter commitment, but his defensive issues would give back a lot of the offense he provides. This will be the first time I've recommended this for anyone, but the Mets should sign Matt Holliday for up to $18 million per season on up to a five-year deal. They'll be hurting a little on the back end of that, but the improvement over Murphy or Pagan (who is a strong fourth outfielder, and probably better than Francoeur) in the short term is worth that.

The Mets have to fix their offense before they fix their pitching. They should be spending their money on bats, rather than on starters, and given the high-risk pitching that's out there, money spent on Joel Pineiro or Jon Garland or Jarrod Washburn doesn't change things for them, it just adds the type of pitcher they already have but with more recent success. The Mets needed a John Lackey, someone to be a clear second starter between Johan Santana and the rest of the field, and there was exactly one John Lackey available this season. A move for a high-upside player, such as Ben Sheets or Erik Bedard, would make more sense for them, while allowing them to stay in the market for hitters."

His take on Molina:

"Signing Bengie Molina wasn't going to help things. The Mets, in fact, got a player who provides 90 percent of Molina's value when they signed Henry Blanco to a one-year, $750,000 contract. Blanco has a legitimate cannon behind the plate and he hits left-handed pitching well enough to carry that half of a platoon. Moreover, there's little temptation to bat him high in the lineup or give him a bigger job than that. Molina's inflated RBI counts hide the fact that he's an offense-killer, posting a sub-.300 OBP in two of the previous three seasons. He's also one of the slowest men in the game, and not a particularly good defensive catcher. To sign him and bat him sixth in 125 games would make the Mets actively worse. What they need is a lefty bat to pair with Blanco; I'm open to the idea that Josh Thole can be that player, but Thole has to hit .290 to play and it's an open question whether his Mike LaValliere act will carry forward to the majors. Josh Bard, who can't throw and might hit, could serve as a stopgap while Thole spends two months at Buffalo, but the real key here is to avoid signing Bengie Molina. It would be wasted money."

There's much, much more. It's a great read, and I highly recommend subscribing if you don't already.

I think his use of the past tense when talking about a Molina signing is kind of interesting, like he considered it to have been a done deal by the time the article would be published.

Later

[nymr83]

I think his use of the past tense when talking about a Molina signing is kind of interesting, like he considered it to have been a done deal by the time the article would be published.

I think he was using the past tense to refer to the Blanco signing

[MFS62]

Now that you mention it, I think you're right.

Also about:

"We are pursuing Matt Holliday," Minaya said.

I would like to take this opportunity to announce that I am pursuing Angelina Jolie.

Unfortunitely, I think Omar and I will have the same degree of success.

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, he said "wasn't going to help things," which implies that the Mets have moved on, though I don't know that we have evidence that supports that.

I agree that Blanco gives you most of what you want in Molina. The upside of Molina would then be reduncancy, and that can be had more cheaply. It's the Left Field thread, but Josh Bard? Wy not? He has a Piazza connection.

[Centerfield]

Joel Sheehan at BP has a great post up about the Mets and what he thinks they should do this off-season. It's a subscription site, so I can only post a few snippets:

"With so many suitors finding other answers, both Jason Bay and Matt Holliday are still available, and presumably at a price that gets a little better every day. I've recommended staying away from both, as both are declining stocks, good-but-not-great players likely to be overpaid because of their status as the top guys in a weak year. The Mets, however, are a special case, a big-market club with some money to spend, a core that would allow either player to be the fifth-best on the team, and a short time horizon. For the Mets, Matt Holliday could make sense, as he's a gap-to-gap hitter who should play well in Citi Field, he's good enough defensively to cover ground in those same gaps, and he fits within the payroll parameters. Bay would likely be less expensive and require a shorter commitment, but his defensive issues would give back a lot of the offense he provides. This will be the first time I've recommended this for anyone, but the Mets should sign Matt Holliday for up to $18 million per season on up to a five-year deal. They'll be hurting a little on the back end of that, but the improvement over Murphy or Pagan (who is a strong fourth outfielder, and probably better than Francoeur) in the short term is worth that.

The Mets have to fix their offense before they fix their pitching. They should be spending their money on bats, rather than on starters, and given the high-risk pitching that's out there, money spent on Joel Pineiro or Jon Garland or Jarrod Washburn doesn't change things for them, it just adds the type of pitcher they already have but with more recent success. The Mets needed a John Lackey, someone to be a clear second starter between Johan Santana and the rest of the field, and there was exactly one John Lackey available this season. A move for a high-upside player, such as Ben Sheets or Erik Bedard, would make more sense for them, while allowing them to stay in the market for hitters."

His take on Molina:

"Signing Bengie Molina wasn't going to help things. The Mets, in fact, got a player who provides 90 percent of Molina's value when they signed Henry Blanco to a one-year, $750,000 contract. Blanco has a legitimate cannon behind the plate and he hits left-handed pitching well enough to carry that half of a platoon. Moreover, there's little temptation to bat him high in the lineup or give him a bigger job than that. Molina's inflated RBI counts hide the fact that he's an offense-killer, posting a sub-.300 OBP in two of the previous three seasons. He's also one of the slowest men in the game, and not a particularly good defensive catcher. To sign him and bat him sixth in 125 games would make the Mets actively worse. What they need is a lefty bat to pair with Blanco; I'm open to the idea that Josh Thole can be that player, but Thole has to hit .290 to play and it's an open question whether his Mike LaValliere act will carry forward to the majors. Josh Bard, who can't throw and might hit, could serve as a stopgap while Thole spends two months at Buffalo, but the real key here is to avoid signing Bengie Molina. It would be wasted money."

There's much, much more. It's a great read, and I highly recommend subscribing if you don't already.

I think his use of the past tense when talking about a Molina signing is kind of interesting, like he considered it to have been a done deal by the time the article would be published.

Later[/quote:13cftfq4]

Yes. Absolutely. Joel Sheehan for GM!

[ashie62]

Would a Santos/Blanco platoon be so bad while waiting for Thole?

[MFS62]

Would a Santos/Blanco platoon be so bad while waiting for Thole?[/quote:1p7v33tk]
Not unless you feel that you have to have a lefty hitting catcher.

Later

[metirish]

The more time that has passed and the more I have read here on this site and elsewhere about Molina the more I don't want him on the Mets.....

[ashie62]

The more time that has passed and the more I have read here on this site and elsewhere about Molina the more I don't want him on the Mets.....[/quote:1l5uwwmn]

As time goes on I don't want Molina, Bay, Holliday or much else out there. It is becoming tiring.

I am OK with Jermaine Dye being signed and on to spring training**

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Would a Santos/Blanco platoon be so bad while waiting for Thole?[/quote:fk5jhjgf]
Not unless you feel that you have to have a lefty hitting catcher.

Later[/quote:fk5jhjgf]

Gregg Zaun would have been a PERFECT, cheap fit here. And overpaying for him would have meant less money than the Royals gave f-ing Jason Kendall.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Peter Gammons did a live-radio interview with the Red Sox radio network a few days ago. Here's a highlight of what Gammons had to say about free agent Jason Bay:

I think [bay would] rather be playing in Beirut than Queens.... I think in Jason�s case, it would have been really easy to take 4 x 15 [million dollars] in July, which I thought, actually, at the time was a little bit high as an offer. It was clear that the Red Sox just wanted to get him signed and get him out of the way. While the Mets offer is four [years] for 65 [million], it�s so backloaded that I�ve been told by Mets people that it�s far less than what the Red Sox were offering in present-day value. And he obviously doesn�t want to play there.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2009/12/25/peter-gammons-on-dale-holley/

[batmagadanleadoff]

While the Mets offer is four [years] for 65 [million], it�s so backloaded that I�ve been told by Mets people that it�s far less than what the Red Sox were offering in present-day value.

The Mets like to hold on to their money a little longer than other teams do because Wilpon knows this hedge fund guy that guarantees hefty inflation beating profits on any investments made.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Bay or Holliday. Holliday or Bay. So did any other NL East team improve their left field going into 2010 as much as the Mets did?

[smg58]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-bay-deal-and-the-time-value-of-money

Fangraphs has an interesting article on Bay and the value of backloaded contracts. The conclusion is there's no way of doing the math that would make the Mets' offer less than the Sox' alleged offer.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, the Dow Jones could grow 40% in the next five years.