2009 World Baseball Classic

[Gwreck]

WBC to use the totally-ridiculous rule from the Olympics re: extra innings:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3870558

[A Boy Named Seo]

Jeezus.

[Guest themetfairy]

The Dugout's 2 Cents On The Matter[/url:3vxty9j0]

[MFS62]

="Edgy DC":2wqaxhlm]Listed as "Auxiliary Coaches": Mike Schmidt, Barry Larkin and Billy Ripken [/quote:2wqaxhlm] That looks like a question in a children's textbook. "Which one of these doesn't belong?" Where's Cal? Later

Edgy DC Feb 05 2009 11:36 AM

Jimmy Rollins to back up Derek Jeter? http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2009/02/05/sports/doc498b0918eb0ef575544613.txt I expect that kind of crap from Buck Martinez, but not Davey Johnson.

metirish Feb 05 2009 11:55 AM

I find it funny how other players defer to Jeter like he's the Jordan of baseball.

Edgy DC Feb 05 2009 12:18 PM

]"It has nothing to do with pride (or) who's better," Rollins said. "This is a team, it's not about me or him, it's about us taking the WBC title home. I'm just fortunate to be on the team - to be on the team is enough. When I do play, I hope to contribute." Well, it may have nothing to do with pride, Jimmy, but taking the title home has a lot to do with who's better.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 05 2009 01:30 PM

It's nice how Jimmy is deferential and humble when he's talking about Derek Jeter, and brash and disrespectful when he talks about the Mets. Gotta love the guy.

smg58 Feb 05 2009 02:17 PM

Just for fun we can count the ground balls Jeter can't make plays on that Rollins would have fielded cleanly.

Nymr83 Feb 05 2009 02:24 PM

if the US doesnt win the tournament I want to lose on a Jeter doubleplay grounder with the bases loaded and 1 out.

Edgy DC Feb 06 2009 08:22 AM

]Derek Jeter, the New York captain, said yesterday he will play for the United States against the Yankees in a spring-training game on March 3. "Hopefully, I won't see any pitches inside," joked Jeter, who will be playing for the U.S. team in a warm-up for the World Baseball Classic. "It will be funny. It will be fun." Will designated assasin Shelley Duncan be in uniform for the Yankees?

metirish Feb 09 2009 08:18 PM

Johan Santana feels great but will not play in the upcoming WBC.

MFS62 Feb 09 2009 09:30 PM

="Edgy DC":3ekr2o8j] Will designated assasin Shelley Duncan be in uniform for the Yankees?[/quote:3ekr2o8j] IIRC Shelly Duncan was released by the Yankees when they signed one of their free agents this off season. I commented at the time that he might have made an nice pickup for the bench. Then someone called my attention to his stats..... Never noticed the Yanks re-signing him to a minor league contract after that. Did they? Later Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 09:43 PM I wasn't actually serious, but yes, he remains on the payroll as a non-roster player, and no, I don't want him. Fman99 Feb 10 2009 07:43 AM ="metirish":2uepqax4]Johan Santana feels great but will not play in the upcoming WBC.[/quote:2uepqax4] Perfect. Frayed Knot Feb 10 2009 07:44 AM Ichiro to pitch in WBC?!? Probably not, but maybe[/url:1a2k82o1] Edgy DC Feb 13 2009 07:29 AM Mets making the wrong sort of enemies. Chavez wants players cleared for WBC Associated Press CARACAS, Venezuela -- President Hugo Chavez urged major league baseball teams on Thursday to allow Venezuelan players to represent their country in next month's World Baseball Classic. "They take away the athlete's right and duty ... to represent Venezuela," said Chavez, speaking during a ceremony to honor Venezuela's under-20 soccer team. "It's constructive criticism of professional sports." Chavez said baseball should follow the example of professional soccer teams in Europe and the United States, which are forced under FIFA regulations to clear players when they want to join their national teams in international competitions. Edwin Zerpa, president of the Venezuelan Baseball Federation, said Thursday that he was particularly concerned that the New York Mets might not clear ace Johan Santana to pitch. "What's most worrisome is that they attempt to stop the pitchers, who are in excellent condition, from playing," Zerpa said. "Without good pitching, you cannot win in baseball." Mets general manager Omar Minaya has said he is in favor of having players in the WBC. Other big league stars on the Venezuela roster include: Mets closer Francisco Rodriguez, Detroit outfielder Magglio Ordonez, and Los Angeles Angels outfielder Bobby Abreu. Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press Frayed Knot Feb 13 2009 10:02 AM Maybe someone should mention to Hugo about the players who were thinking about not playing because they believe that bureaucrats within the gov't of Venezuela are pocketing much of the money intended for the players. Fman99 Feb 13 2009 10:07 AM ="Frayed Knot":2co5mxmt]Maybe someone should mention to Hugo about the players who were thinking about not playing because they believe that bureaucrats within the gov't of Venezuela are pocketing much of the money intended for the players.[/quote:2co5mxmt] Still you can't be mad at Chavez. He made that sick catch in Game 7 of the 2006 NLCS! Oh wait, what? Frayed Knot Feb 13 2009 10:17 AM Easy to confuse the two, they're both Venezuelan lefties. metirish Feb 14 2009 04:38 PM High cost of insurance is reason why Johan will not play in WBC ] PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- Although the withdrawal of Johan Santana from the World Baseball Classic was for weeks a foregone conclusion within the Mets' organization, Santana said Saturday the club never withheld its approval for him to participate with the Venezuelan team in the international tournament. Santana's remarks came one day after the Classic released a statement explaining that the issue that would deny Santana an opportunity to pitch for his country was the high cost of an insurance premium. Santana, who underwent left knee surgery Oct. 1, said he is one of a number of big league players who will not participate in the Classic because of the insurance issue. He named no others. "It has nothing to do with my willingness to play in the [Classic]," Santana said. "I was preparing myself. Everything was on the right track." Santana said he had heard from his agent, Peter Greenberg, on Friday that the Classic had made a decision. Mets general manager Omar Minaya confirmed the situation with Santana on Saturday morning. "We never had to make a decision about his participation," Minaya said. "It's tough," Santana said. "It's sad. I wanted to pitch." LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 15 2009 10:03 PM Speaking of things Venezuelan: IN (provisional roster): Victor F-ing Zambrano OUT: Freddy Garcia Really? (HAS to be a lack of interest on the Chief's part.) Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 08:31 AM Albert Pujols, out. The pattern seems that any player who had any sort of offseason surgery, and hasn't yet returned to action (like playing winter ball) is uninsurable. Nymr83 Feb 17 2009 08:41 AM ="Edgy DC":3foyo3u8]Albert Pujols, out. The pattern seems that any player who had any sort of offseason surgery, and hasn't yet returned to action (like playing winter ball) is uninsurable.[/quote:3foyo3u8] Seems like a wise policy to me. F. Garcia was injured, if he wants to make the Mets' opening day roster he's probably better off avoiding the WBC anyway and concentrating on getting healthy to the Mets' satisfaction. I hope Zambrano gets rocked. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 10:58 PM Endy and K-Rod are playing for the 'Zuelas, too. I'll enjoy the games, I'm sure... but a little part of me will be rooting against with too many of Flushing's finest on 'em, if only in hope of fewer injuries. Also, needs more team mascots. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 05:55 AM Endy was the unlikely star for Venezueal three years ago. Brought his power stick then also. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 01:17 PM Fare thee well, Metsies, and come back safe: Beltran Cora Delgado Feliciano Figueroa (shouldn't he be reppin' Brooklyn?) Ollie P. Putz Reyes KRod Wright Am I missing anyone? Edgy DC Mar 02 2009 01:56 PM You've got to be. I saw reports saying the Mets and Red Sox led the bigs in WBC-bound players with 15 each. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 02:01 PM Had everyone on the 40-man... but was missing a handful, yet. As broken down by country in Newsday: Australia Stefan Welch Canada Shawn Bowman Dominican Republic Jose Reyes Mexico Elmer Dessens Oliver Perez Panama Ruben Tejada Puerto Rico Pedro Feliciano Nelson Figueroa Alex Cora Carlos Delgado Carlos Beltran Jesus Feliciano United States J.J. Putz David Wright Venezuela Francisco Rodriguez So... who else is rooting for Cuba-Japan II? Nymr83 Mar 02 2009 02:04 PM Shawn Bowman (Canada), Stefan Welch (Australia), Ruben Tejada (Panama), and Jesus Feliciano (Puerto Rico) are all listed as part of the Mets' organization and are on the rosters on espn.com edit- i got beat to it, but Elmer Dessens is listed as a Brave not a Met here: [url:3izz30jv]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3844570[/url:3izz30jv] Edgy DC Mar 05 2009 11:17 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 24 2009 11:38 AM So, if you're the manager of Equipo DR, and you lose Alex Rodriguez, who is your thirdbaseman? Do you go to Adrian Beltre or do you move Hanley Ramirez (or Miguel Tejada) over there and free up short for Jose Reyes? Nymr83 Mar 05 2009 12:13 PM mpve Ramirez so that you have no trouble starting both him and Reyes Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:11 AM Answer is Tejada. Yeah, I'd move Hanley there also, or move one of them to second, keep Tejada at third and go with the three shortstop lineup. metirish Mar 09 2009 10:27 AM In his minor and major league career Rameriz has played one game at third , Alou can't just slot him in there surely. Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:32 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 09 2009 10:36 AM Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner. metirish Mar 09 2009 10:33 AM Sounds good but I wonder what his club would think about moving him. Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:44 AM If some alleged negative consequence of Ramirez playing third for a few games is upsetting Florida, I'd sure like Alou to push the issue to find out exactly how much kowtowing the WBC managers are expected to do. At any rate, nobody stopped him from moving Tejada over. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 09 2009 10:46 AM The Snooze tried, not very hard not very effectively, to make Reyes' remark that he's be play wherever Alou asked into a controversy which "may make Met management cringe" in a tortured allusion to the Matsui-at-SS thing in '04. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 09 2009 01:56 PM ="Edgy DC":2elgx6dp]Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner.[/quote:2elgx6dp] Porque no? This tournament means a LOT more to the Dominicans than it does to us. The criticism from the leadup and after game one has been so harsh, GM Stan Javier's already tendered his verbal resignation, effective after the games. One key error by an out-of-place guy, and who knows what happens to Felipe Alou's house postgame. They shoot people over dominoes in the DR. (Well, okay... the psychotic, 100-mph-armed ones whose names rhyme with "Gurgos," anyway.) Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 02:49 PM Well, like I said, they already are playing a shortstop out of position, and world stayed intact. High stakes mean high pressure. It's no place for the weak-kneed, but you still want to make the most effective decision. I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation. Benjamin Grimm Mar 09 2009 02:52 PM ="Edgy DC":1u447jdd]I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation.[/quote:1u447jdd] I would think so. And the difference between third base and shortstop is, I think, less than the difference between second and short. At third the key difference is that you have to react a bit quicker, and at second it's the trickier turn of the double play. MFS62 Mar 09 2009 06:42 PM Many years ago, I spoke with Yank utility player Gil McDougald who played in the majors for several years. http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcdougi01.shtml I asked him about the difference in playing the three positions and about the preparation for playing each. He mentioned the things you folks said above. Then he added that it only took him a few throws during pre-game at the position he was going to play that day to get his arm ready. That surprised me. I guess that's why he was so valuable to the Yanks of that era. Later metirish Mar 18 2009 01:56 PM I like the opening paragraph. That scout for the Marlins talking about the Koreans using BP to work on moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field is what Manuel was preaching at the start of camp. I wonder if that is still a big part of BP for the Mets. Scouts See Works of Art in Asian Teams� Workouts ] By ALAN SCHWARZ Published: March 18, 2009 SAN DIEGO � He could see Meadowlark Lemon turning two, almost hear �Sweet Georgia Brown� whistling through vacuous Petco Park. As Japanese and Korean infielders gobbled up grounders during infield practice Tuesday and whipped the balls among themselves in bouncy syncopation, Mark Weidemaier sensed he was watching a different sport, a different show. �They�re the Harlem Globetrotters,� said Weidemaier, who has spent this week scouting the San Diego bracket of the World Baseball Classic for the Los Angeles Dodgers. �They�re not flashy or showy, I don�t mean that. But the footwork and timing. They�re going full bore, full speed. They go through every play that needs to be made in the game. They�ll get more ground balls than a big-leaguer takes in a week.� Baseball scouts are known for watching games, but the best in the business focus just as much on pregame practice, sometimes more. Three games can pass without getting to see how a shortstop can flash into the hole, or how well a second baseman charges a slow grounder. But when top Asian teams take batting practice, a scout�s inner aesthete awakens to the beauty of the game. Tuesday night � when Korea beat Japan, 4-1, to advance to this weekend�s W.B.C. semifinals � presented a double shot for the two dozen scouts in attendance. All of them want to be prepared in case any player becomes available to be signed, and both teams� hour of pregame drills had oodles to eyeball. �Korea has a B.P. routine they use where it�s more about moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field,� said Orrin Freeman, a longtime scout for the Florida Marlins who has watched international baseball since the 1980s. �You watch a major league team in the United States take B.P., and most of the guys are just playing home run derby.� As Japan and Korea practiced before Tuesday�s game, Freeman watched from the loge seats behind first base. He saw a distinctly Korean defensive drill in which any ball that goes beyond outfielder depth draws an infielder deep onto the grass to take a relatively short cutoff throw, in large part because third-base coaches tend to hold runners if cutoff men already have the ball. After Korea left the field, Japanese infielders took fungoed grounders at almost infield-in depth, pushing their reflexes so that the real game would feel easier, not unlike how a hitter might swing three bats in the on-deck circle. Rob Ducey, a former major league outfielder who scouts for the Toronto Blue Jays, sat beside the third-base dugout and enjoyed a sonata of skills rarely seen in the majors. He saw Japanese shortstop Yasuyuki Kataoka field grounders in perfect position to turn double plays, and other infielders moving to balls on angles that would make Euclid proud. Korean third baseman Bum Ho Lee charged grounders with the intensity of October, which for many foreign players this W.B.C. might as well be. �They work their craft a whole lot more than we do,� Ducey said. �They work on their swings instead of being pull, pull, pull.� Asked how a typical major-leaguer might respond to pregame practices as intense as those of Asian teams, Ducey said: �They�d feel like it was overkill � �I don�t want to get gassed.� Major league players, not all of them, but they do enough to get by because physically they�re such gifted athletes.� Not unlike how Asia�s practices are more rigorously exacting than those in the major leagues, several scouts said that Japan�s infield drills are generally more taut than Korea�s, a difference they ascribed to Korea�s having larger players with more power and less reliance on basic run-at-a-time fundamentals. Cleanup hitter Tae Kyun Kim packs 220 pounds on his six-foot frame, while first baseman Dae Ho Lee stands a downright behemoth 6-foot-4, 264. Japan has only one regular who weighs as much as 205: catcher Kenji Johjima, who perhaps not coincidentally makes his living with the Seattle Mariners. �The Japanese, they are far superior fundamentally,� said Ducey, the Blue Jays� coordinator of Pacific Rim operations. �They take thousands of ground balls a week, not just the young guys, all of them. The Japanese run hard down the line all the time. Koreans, it�s a little haphazard at times. And Koreans are generally more physical, more aggressive at the plate. They�re more suited for our game.� And still, a few hours later, the Koreans proved that they were plenty fundamental, more so, on this night, than Japan. They beat Japan on execution alone, all in the first inning. It started with the first two batters of the game: second baseman Keun Woo Jeong grabbed a high chopper and threw to first to barely nip Japan�s speedy Ichiro Suzuki, and on the next play, first baseman Tae Kyun Kim dived to his right for a hard ground ball and threw to the pitcher hustling over to cover first. Rather than an early first-and-second, no-out jam, the inning soon ended peacefully. And in the bottom half of the inning, Japan looked uncharacteristically clumsy. After a leadoff single, second baseman Akinori Iwamura double-clutched a ground ball in the hole for what was ruled a single; later, with Iwamura trying to start a double play, Kataoka could not handle Iwamura�s low throw and got no out at all. Two batters later, Korea�s Jin Young Lee stroked a beautiful opposite-field single through the left side for two runs, a 3-0 Korea lead and San Diego�s best imitation of Tony Gwynn in years. With the loss, Japan left itself having to play Cuba on Wednesday night to stay alive in the tournament it won three years ago. Disappointing for Japanese fans, but a treat for American scouts. Just another day at the symphony. �Watching the Japanese fungo hitters is great,� Weidemaier noted. �They�re hitting every type of ball that can happen to an infielder: to the left and right, backhand, sharp one-hoppers, backspin, top spin, slow rollers. Rat-a-tat-tat, they�re so precise in all their movements. To me, that�s what makes this game so beautiful.� metirish Mar 24 2009 07:36 AM I think this quote from Davey Johnson in a way ties in nicely with the observation above from the scout. ] "I'm kinda feeling like Earl Weaver, I don't push the running game," Johnson said. "I don't think that was a big factor when I was playing in Japan. I don't think it is today. I think the stolen base and the bunt base hit, those are becoming less and less a factor in the game." Is "small ball" as Davey suggests becoming less a factor in the MLB game ? Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 07:41 AM A difficulty in such discussions is that we treat "small ball" as a monolith. Not all small ball approaches have the same merit. metirish Mar 24 2009 07:47 AM True , I shouldn't have used that term. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 08:01 AM Not at all. It's how the writers use it. metsmarathon Mar 24 2009 08:34 AM americans love to americanize their sports. and by that, i mean that we love to turn every sport into football. american football. who needs quickness and finesse when you can have power and strength? we prefer our sports to be blunt instruments presided over by blunter athletes. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 11:40 AM Not a bad allusion. Centerfield Mar 24 2009 11:58 AM Dae Ho Lee. Not about speed and quickness. Not to rain on the "Playing baseball the right way" parade, but am I the only one that thinks the Asian players lack fundamentals? At least at the plate anyway. They all step in the bucket, they all overswing, and some of their leg kicks are ridiculous. There isn't a short, compact swing on either team.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Jimmy Rollins to back up Derek Jeter?

http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2009/02/05/sports/doc498b0918eb0ef575544613.txt

I expect that kind of crap from Buck Martinez, but not Davey Johnson.

[metirish]

I find it funny how other players defer to Jeter like he's the Jordan of baseball.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]"It has nothing to do with pride (or) who's better," Rollins said. "This is a team, it's not about me or him, it's about us taking the WBC title home. I'm just fortunate to be on the team - to be on the team is enough. When I do play, I hope to contribute."

Well, it may have nothing to do with pride, Jimmy, but taking the title home has a lot to do with who's better.

[Benjamin Grimm]

It's nice how Jimmy is deferential and humble when he's talking about Derek Jeter, and brash and disrespectful when he talks about the Mets.

Gotta love the guy.

[smg58]

Just for fun we can count the ground balls Jeter can't make plays on that Rollins would have fielded cleanly.

[nymr83]

if the US doesnt win the tournament I want to lose on a Jeter doubleplay grounder with the bases loaded and 1 out.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]Derek Jeter, the New York captain, said yesterday he will play for the United States against the Yankees in a spring-training game on March 3. "Hopefully, I won't see any pitches inside," joked Jeter, who will be playing for the U.S. team in a warm-up for the World Baseball Classic. "It will be funny. It will be fun."

Will designated assasin Shelley Duncan be in uniform for the Yankees?

[metirish]

Johan Santana feels great but will not play in the upcoming WBC.

[MFS62]

="Edgy DC":3ekr2o8j] Will designated assasin Shelley Duncan be in uniform for the Yankees?[/quote:3ekr2o8j] IIRC Shelly Duncan was released by the Yankees when they signed one of their free agents this off season. I commented at the time that he might have made an nice pickup for the bench. Then someone called my attention to his stats..... Never noticed the Yanks re-signing him to a minor league contract after that. Did they? Later

Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 09:43 PM

I wasn't actually serious, but yes, he remains on the payroll as a non-roster player, and no, I don't want him.

Fman99 Feb 10 2009 07:43 AM

="metirish":2uepqax4]Johan Santana feels great but will not play in the upcoming WBC.[/quote:2uepqax4] Perfect. Frayed Knot Feb 10 2009 07:44 AM Ichiro to pitch in WBC?!? Probably not, but maybe[/url:1a2k82o1] Edgy DC Feb 13 2009 07:29 AM Mets making the wrong sort of enemies. Chavez wants players cleared for WBC Associated Press CARACAS, Venezuela -- President Hugo Chavez urged major league baseball teams on Thursday to allow Venezuelan players to represent their country in next month's World Baseball Classic. "They take away the athlete's right and duty ... to represent Venezuela," said Chavez, speaking during a ceremony to honor Venezuela's under-20 soccer team. "It's constructive criticism of professional sports." Chavez said baseball should follow the example of professional soccer teams in Europe and the United States, which are forced under FIFA regulations to clear players when they want to join their national teams in international competitions. Edwin Zerpa, president of the Venezuelan Baseball Federation, said Thursday that he was particularly concerned that the New York Mets might not clear ace Johan Santana to pitch. "What's most worrisome is that they attempt to stop the pitchers, who are in excellent condition, from playing," Zerpa said. "Without good pitching, you cannot win in baseball." Mets general manager Omar Minaya has said he is in favor of having players in the WBC. Other big league stars on the Venezuela roster include: Mets closer Francisco Rodriguez, Detroit outfielder Magglio Ordonez, and Los Angeles Angels outfielder Bobby Abreu. Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press Frayed Knot Feb 13 2009 10:02 AM Maybe someone should mention to Hugo about the players who were thinking about not playing because they believe that bureaucrats within the gov't of Venezuela are pocketing much of the money intended for the players. Fman99 Feb 13 2009 10:07 AM ="Frayed Knot":2co5mxmt]Maybe someone should mention to Hugo about the players who were thinking about not playing because they believe that bureaucrats within the gov't of Venezuela are pocketing much of the money intended for the players.[/quote:2co5mxmt] Still you can't be mad at Chavez. He made that sick catch in Game 7 of the 2006 NLCS! Oh wait, what? Frayed Knot Feb 13 2009 10:17 AM Easy to confuse the two, they're both Venezuelan lefties. metirish Feb 14 2009 04:38 PM High cost of insurance is reason why Johan will not play in WBC ] PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- Although the withdrawal of Johan Santana from the World Baseball Classic was for weeks a foregone conclusion within the Mets' organization, Santana said Saturday the club never withheld its approval for him to participate with the Venezuelan team in the international tournament. Santana's remarks came one day after the Classic released a statement explaining that the issue that would deny Santana an opportunity to pitch for his country was the high cost of an insurance premium. Santana, who underwent left knee surgery Oct. 1, said he is one of a number of big league players who will not participate in the Classic because of the insurance issue. He named no others. "It has nothing to do with my willingness to play in the [Classic]," Santana said. "I was preparing myself. Everything was on the right track." Santana said he had heard from his agent, Peter Greenberg, on Friday that the Classic had made a decision. Mets general manager Omar Minaya confirmed the situation with Santana on Saturday morning. "We never had to make a decision about his participation," Minaya said. "It's tough," Santana said. "It's sad. I wanted to pitch." LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 15 2009 10:03 PM Speaking of things Venezuelan: IN (provisional roster): Victor F-ing Zambrano OUT: Freddy Garcia Really? (HAS to be a lack of interest on the Chief's part.) Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 08:31 AM Albert Pujols, out. The pattern seems that any player who had any sort of offseason surgery, and hasn't yet returned to action (like playing winter ball) is uninsurable. Nymr83 Feb 17 2009 08:41 AM ="Edgy DC":3foyo3u8]Albert Pujols, out. The pattern seems that any player who had any sort of offseason surgery, and hasn't yet returned to action (like playing winter ball) is uninsurable.[/quote:3foyo3u8] Seems like a wise policy to me. F. Garcia was injured, if he wants to make the Mets' opening day roster he's probably better off avoiding the WBC anyway and concentrating on getting healthy to the Mets' satisfaction. I hope Zambrano gets rocked. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 10:58 PM Endy and K-Rod are playing for the 'Zuelas, too. I'll enjoy the games, I'm sure... but a little part of me will be rooting against with too many of Flushing's finest on 'em, if only in hope of fewer injuries. Also, needs more team mascots. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 05:55 AM Endy was the unlikely star for Venezueal three years ago. Brought his power stick then also. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 01:17 PM Fare thee well, Metsies, and come back safe: Beltran Cora Delgado Feliciano Figueroa (shouldn't he be reppin' Brooklyn?) Ollie P. Putz Reyes KRod Wright Am I missing anyone? Edgy DC Mar 02 2009 01:56 PM You've got to be. I saw reports saying the Mets and Red Sox led the bigs in WBC-bound players with 15 each. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 02:01 PM Had everyone on the 40-man... but was missing a handful, yet. As broken down by country in Newsday: Australia Stefan Welch Canada Shawn Bowman Dominican Republic Jose Reyes Mexico Elmer Dessens Oliver Perez Panama Ruben Tejada Puerto Rico Pedro Feliciano Nelson Figueroa Alex Cora Carlos Delgado Carlos Beltran Jesus Feliciano United States J.J. Putz David Wright Venezuela Francisco Rodriguez So... who else is rooting for Cuba-Japan II? Nymr83 Mar 02 2009 02:04 PM Shawn Bowman (Canada), Stefan Welch (Australia), Ruben Tejada (Panama), and Jesus Feliciano (Puerto Rico) are all listed as part of the Mets' organization and are on the rosters on espn.com edit- i got beat to it, but Elmer Dessens is listed as a Brave not a Met here: [url:3izz30jv]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3844570[/url:3izz30jv] Edgy DC Mar 05 2009 11:17 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 24 2009 11:38 AM So, if you're the manager of Equipo DR, and you lose Alex Rodriguez, who is your thirdbaseman? Do you go to Adrian Beltre or do you move Hanley Ramirez (or Miguel Tejada) over there and free up short for Jose Reyes? Nymr83 Mar 05 2009 12:13 PM mpve Ramirez so that you have no trouble starting both him and Reyes Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:11 AM Answer is Tejada. Yeah, I'd move Hanley there also, or move one of them to second, keep Tejada at third and go with the three shortstop lineup. metirish Mar 09 2009 10:27 AM In his minor and major league career Rameriz has played one game at third , Alou can't just slot him in there surely. Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:32 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 09 2009 10:36 AM Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner. metirish Mar 09 2009 10:33 AM Sounds good but I wonder what his club would think about moving him. Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:44 AM If some alleged negative consequence of Ramirez playing third for a few games is upsetting Florida, I'd sure like Alou to push the issue to find out exactly how much kowtowing the WBC managers are expected to do. At any rate, nobody stopped him from moving Tejada over. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 09 2009 10:46 AM The Snooze tried, not very hard not very effectively, to make Reyes' remark that he's be play wherever Alou asked into a controversy which "may make Met management cringe" in a tortured allusion to the Matsui-at-SS thing in '04. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 09 2009 01:56 PM ="Edgy DC":2elgx6dp]Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner.[/quote:2elgx6dp] Porque no? This tournament means a LOT more to the Dominicans than it does to us. The criticism from the leadup and after game one has been so harsh, GM Stan Javier's already tendered his verbal resignation, effective after the games. One key error by an out-of-place guy, and who knows what happens to Felipe Alou's house postgame. They shoot people over dominoes in the DR. (Well, okay... the psychotic, 100-mph-armed ones whose names rhyme with "Gurgos," anyway.) Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 02:49 PM Well, like I said, they already are playing a shortstop out of position, and world stayed intact. High stakes mean high pressure. It's no place for the weak-kneed, but you still want to make the most effective decision. I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation. Benjamin Grimm Mar 09 2009 02:52 PM ="Edgy DC":1u447jdd]I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation.[/quote:1u447jdd] I would think so. And the difference between third base and shortstop is, I think, less than the difference between second and short. At third the key difference is that you have to react a bit quicker, and at second it's the trickier turn of the double play. MFS62 Mar 09 2009 06:42 PM Many years ago, I spoke with Yank utility player Gil McDougald who played in the majors for several years. http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcdougi01.shtml I asked him about the difference in playing the three positions and about the preparation for playing each. He mentioned the things you folks said above. Then he added that it only took him a few throws during pre-game at the position he was going to play that day to get his arm ready. That surprised me. I guess that's why he was so valuable to the Yanks of that era. Later metirish Mar 18 2009 01:56 PM I like the opening paragraph. That scout for the Marlins talking about the Koreans using BP to work on moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field is what Manuel was preaching at the start of camp. I wonder if that is still a big part of BP for the Mets. Scouts See Works of Art in Asian Teams� Workouts ] By ALAN SCHWARZ Published: March 18, 2009 SAN DIEGO � He could see Meadowlark Lemon turning two, almost hear �Sweet Georgia Brown� whistling through vacuous Petco Park. As Japanese and Korean infielders gobbled up grounders during infield practice Tuesday and whipped the balls among themselves in bouncy syncopation, Mark Weidemaier sensed he was watching a different sport, a different show. �They�re the Harlem Globetrotters,� said Weidemaier, who has spent this week scouting the San Diego bracket of the World Baseball Classic for the Los Angeles Dodgers. �They�re not flashy or showy, I don�t mean that. But the footwork and timing. They�re going full bore, full speed. They go through every play that needs to be made in the game. They�ll get more ground balls than a big-leaguer takes in a week.� Baseball scouts are known for watching games, but the best in the business focus just as much on pregame practice, sometimes more. Three games can pass without getting to see how a shortstop can flash into the hole, or how well a second baseman charges a slow grounder. But when top Asian teams take batting practice, a scout�s inner aesthete awakens to the beauty of the game. Tuesday night � when Korea beat Japan, 4-1, to advance to this weekend�s W.B.C. semifinals � presented a double shot for the two dozen scouts in attendance. All of them want to be prepared in case any player becomes available to be signed, and both teams� hour of pregame drills had oodles to eyeball. �Korea has a B.P. routine they use where it�s more about moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field,� said Orrin Freeman, a longtime scout for the Florida Marlins who has watched international baseball since the 1980s. �You watch a major league team in the United States take B.P., and most of the guys are just playing home run derby.� As Japan and Korea practiced before Tuesday�s game, Freeman watched from the loge seats behind first base. He saw a distinctly Korean defensive drill in which any ball that goes beyond outfielder depth draws an infielder deep onto the grass to take a relatively short cutoff throw, in large part because third-base coaches tend to hold runners if cutoff men already have the ball. After Korea left the field, Japanese infielders took fungoed grounders at almost infield-in depth, pushing their reflexes so that the real game would feel easier, not unlike how a hitter might swing three bats in the on-deck circle. Rob Ducey, a former major league outfielder who scouts for the Toronto Blue Jays, sat beside the third-base dugout and enjoyed a sonata of skills rarely seen in the majors. He saw Japanese shortstop Yasuyuki Kataoka field grounders in perfect position to turn double plays, and other infielders moving to balls on angles that would make Euclid proud. Korean third baseman Bum Ho Lee charged grounders with the intensity of October, which for many foreign players this W.B.C. might as well be. �They work their craft a whole lot more than we do,� Ducey said. �They work on their swings instead of being pull, pull, pull.� Asked how a typical major-leaguer might respond to pregame practices as intense as those of Asian teams, Ducey said: �They�d feel like it was overkill � �I don�t want to get gassed.� Major league players, not all of them, but they do enough to get by because physically they�re such gifted athletes.� Not unlike how Asia�s practices are more rigorously exacting than those in the major leagues, several scouts said that Japan�s infield drills are generally more taut than Korea�s, a difference they ascribed to Korea�s having larger players with more power and less reliance on basic run-at-a-time fundamentals. Cleanup hitter Tae Kyun Kim packs 220 pounds on his six-foot frame, while first baseman Dae Ho Lee stands a downright behemoth 6-foot-4, 264. Japan has only one regular who weighs as much as 205: catcher Kenji Johjima, who perhaps not coincidentally makes his living with the Seattle Mariners. �The Japanese, they are far superior fundamentally,� said Ducey, the Blue Jays� coordinator of Pacific Rim operations. �They take thousands of ground balls a week, not just the young guys, all of them. The Japanese run hard down the line all the time. Koreans, it�s a little haphazard at times. And Koreans are generally more physical, more aggressive at the plate. They�re more suited for our game.� And still, a few hours later, the Koreans proved that they were plenty fundamental, more so, on this night, than Japan. They beat Japan on execution alone, all in the first inning. It started with the first two batters of the game: second baseman Keun Woo Jeong grabbed a high chopper and threw to first to barely nip Japan�s speedy Ichiro Suzuki, and on the next play, first baseman Tae Kyun Kim dived to his right for a hard ground ball and threw to the pitcher hustling over to cover first. Rather than an early first-and-second, no-out jam, the inning soon ended peacefully. And in the bottom half of the inning, Japan looked uncharacteristically clumsy. After a leadoff single, second baseman Akinori Iwamura double-clutched a ground ball in the hole for what was ruled a single; later, with Iwamura trying to start a double play, Kataoka could not handle Iwamura�s low throw and got no out at all. Two batters later, Korea�s Jin Young Lee stroked a beautiful opposite-field single through the left side for two runs, a 3-0 Korea lead and San Diego�s best imitation of Tony Gwynn in years. With the loss, Japan left itself having to play Cuba on Wednesday night to stay alive in the tournament it won three years ago. Disappointing for Japanese fans, but a treat for American scouts. Just another day at the symphony. �Watching the Japanese fungo hitters is great,� Weidemaier noted. �They�re hitting every type of ball that can happen to an infielder: to the left and right, backhand, sharp one-hoppers, backspin, top spin, slow rollers. Rat-a-tat-tat, they�re so precise in all their movements. To me, that�s what makes this game so beautiful.� metirish Mar 24 2009 07:36 AM I think this quote from Davey Johnson in a way ties in nicely with the observation above from the scout. ] "I'm kinda feeling like Earl Weaver, I don't push the running game," Johnson said. "I don't think that was a big factor when I was playing in Japan. I don't think it is today. I think the stolen base and the bunt base hit, those are becoming less and less a factor in the game." Is "small ball" as Davey suggests becoming less a factor in the MLB game ? Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 07:41 AM A difficulty in such discussions is that we treat "small ball" as a monolith. Not all small ball approaches have the same merit. metirish Mar 24 2009 07:47 AM True , I shouldn't have used that term. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 08:01 AM Not at all. It's how the writers use it. metsmarathon Mar 24 2009 08:34 AM americans love to americanize their sports. and by that, i mean that we love to turn every sport into football. american football. who needs quickness and finesse when you can have power and strength? we prefer our sports to be blunt instruments presided over by blunter athletes. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 11:40 AM Not a bad allusion. Centerfield Mar 24 2009 11:58 AM Dae Ho Lee. Not about speed and quickness. Not to rain on the "Playing baseball the right way" parade, but am I the only one that thinks the Asian players lack fundamentals? At least at the plate anyway. They all step in the bucket, they all overswing, and some of their leg kicks are ridiculous. There isn't a short, compact swing on either team.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I wasn't actually serious, but yes, he remains on the payroll as a non-roster player, and no, I don't want him.

[Fman99]

="metirish":2uepqax4]Johan Santana feels great but will not play in the upcoming WBC.[/quote:2uepqax4] Perfect.

Frayed Knot Feb 10 2009 07:44 AM

Ichiro to pitch in WBC?!? Probably not, but maybe[/url:1a2k82o1]

Edgy DC Feb 13 2009 07:29 AM

Mets making the wrong sort of enemies. Chavez wants players cleared for WBC Associated Press CARACAS, Venezuela -- President Hugo Chavez urged major league baseball teams on Thursday to allow Venezuelan players to represent their country in next month's World Baseball Classic. "They take away the athlete's right and duty ... to represent Venezuela," said Chavez, speaking during a ceremony to honor Venezuela's under-20 soccer team. "It's constructive criticism of professional sports." Chavez said baseball should follow the example of professional soccer teams in Europe and the United States, which are forced under FIFA regulations to clear players when they want to join their national teams in international competitions. Edwin Zerpa, president of the Venezuelan Baseball Federation, said Thursday that he was particularly concerned that the New York Mets might not clear ace Johan Santana to pitch. "What's most worrisome is that they attempt to stop the pitchers, who are in excellent condition, from playing," Zerpa said. "Without good pitching, you cannot win in baseball." Mets general manager Omar Minaya has said he is in favor of having players in the WBC. Other big league stars on the Venezuela roster include: Mets closer Francisco Rodriguez, Detroit outfielder Magglio Ordonez, and Los Angeles Angels outfielder Bobby Abreu. Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press

Frayed Knot Feb 13 2009 10:02 AM

Maybe someone should mention to Hugo about the players who were thinking about not playing because they believe that bureaucrats within the gov't of Venezuela are pocketing much of the money intended for the players.

Fman99 Feb 13 2009 10:07 AM

="Frayed Knot":2co5mxmt]Maybe someone should mention to Hugo about the players who were thinking about not playing because they believe that bureaucrats within the gov't of Venezuela are pocketing much of the money intended for the players.[/quote:2co5mxmt] Still you can't be mad at Chavez. He made that sick catch in Game 7 of the 2006 NLCS! Oh wait, what? Frayed Knot Feb 13 2009 10:17 AM Easy to confuse the two, they're both Venezuelan lefties. metirish Feb 14 2009 04:38 PM High cost of insurance is reason why Johan will not play in WBC ] PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- Although the withdrawal of Johan Santana from the World Baseball Classic was for weeks a foregone conclusion within the Mets' organization, Santana said Saturday the club never withheld its approval for him to participate with the Venezuelan team in the international tournament. Santana's remarks came one day after the Classic released a statement explaining that the issue that would deny Santana an opportunity to pitch for his country was the high cost of an insurance premium. Santana, who underwent left knee surgery Oct. 1, said he is one of a number of big league players who will not participate in the Classic because of the insurance issue. He named no others. "It has nothing to do with my willingness to play in the [Classic]," Santana said. "I was preparing myself. Everything was on the right track." Santana said he had heard from his agent, Peter Greenberg, on Friday that the Classic had made a decision. Mets general manager Omar Minaya confirmed the situation with Santana on Saturday morning. "We never had to make a decision about his participation," Minaya said. "It's tough," Santana said. "It's sad. I wanted to pitch." LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 15 2009 10:03 PM Speaking of things Venezuelan: IN (provisional roster): Victor F-ing Zambrano OUT: Freddy Garcia Really? (HAS to be a lack of interest on the Chief's part.) Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 08:31 AM Albert Pujols, out. The pattern seems that any player who had any sort of offseason surgery, and hasn't yet returned to action (like playing winter ball) is uninsurable. Nymr83 Feb 17 2009 08:41 AM ="Edgy DC":3foyo3u8]Albert Pujols, out. The pattern seems that any player who had any sort of offseason surgery, and hasn't yet returned to action (like playing winter ball) is uninsurable.[/quote:3foyo3u8] Seems like a wise policy to me. F. Garcia was injured, if he wants to make the Mets' opening day roster he's probably better off avoiding the WBC anyway and concentrating on getting healthy to the Mets' satisfaction. I hope Zambrano gets rocked. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 10:58 PM Endy and K-Rod are playing for the 'Zuelas, too. I'll enjoy the games, I'm sure... but a little part of me will be rooting against with too many of Flushing's finest on 'em, if only in hope of fewer injuries. Also, needs more team mascots. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 05:55 AM Endy was the unlikely star for Venezueal three years ago. Brought his power stick then also. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 01:17 PM Fare thee well, Metsies, and come back safe: Beltran Cora Delgado Feliciano Figueroa (shouldn't he be reppin' Brooklyn?) Ollie P. Putz Reyes KRod Wright Am I missing anyone? Edgy DC Mar 02 2009 01:56 PM You've got to be. I saw reports saying the Mets and Red Sox led the bigs in WBC-bound players with 15 each. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 02:01 PM Had everyone on the 40-man... but was missing a handful, yet. As broken down by country in Newsday: Australia Stefan Welch Canada Shawn Bowman Dominican Republic Jose Reyes Mexico Elmer Dessens Oliver Perez Panama Ruben Tejada Puerto Rico Pedro Feliciano Nelson Figueroa Alex Cora Carlos Delgado Carlos Beltran Jesus Feliciano United States J.J. Putz David Wright Venezuela Francisco Rodriguez So... who else is rooting for Cuba-Japan II? Nymr83 Mar 02 2009 02:04 PM Shawn Bowman (Canada), Stefan Welch (Australia), Ruben Tejada (Panama), and Jesus Feliciano (Puerto Rico) are all listed as part of the Mets' organization and are on the rosters on espn.com edit- i got beat to it, but Elmer Dessens is listed as a Brave not a Met here: [url:3izz30jv]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3844570[/url:3izz30jv] Edgy DC Mar 05 2009 11:17 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 24 2009 11:38 AM So, if you're the manager of Equipo DR, and you lose Alex Rodriguez, who is your thirdbaseman? Do you go to Adrian Beltre or do you move Hanley Ramirez (or Miguel Tejada) over there and free up short for Jose Reyes? Nymr83 Mar 05 2009 12:13 PM mpve Ramirez so that you have no trouble starting both him and Reyes Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:11 AM Answer is Tejada. Yeah, I'd move Hanley there also, or move one of them to second, keep Tejada at third and go with the three shortstop lineup. metirish Mar 09 2009 10:27 AM In his minor and major league career Rameriz has played one game at third , Alou can't just slot him in there surely. Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:32 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 09 2009 10:36 AM Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner. metirish Mar 09 2009 10:33 AM Sounds good but I wonder what his club would think about moving him. Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:44 AM If some alleged negative consequence of Ramirez playing third for a few games is upsetting Florida, I'd sure like Alou to push the issue to find out exactly how much kowtowing the WBC managers are expected to do. At any rate, nobody stopped him from moving Tejada over. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 09 2009 10:46 AM The Snooze tried, not very hard not very effectively, to make Reyes' remark that he's be play wherever Alou asked into a controversy which "may make Met management cringe" in a tortured allusion to the Matsui-at-SS thing in '04. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 09 2009 01:56 PM ="Edgy DC":2elgx6dp]Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner.[/quote:2elgx6dp] Porque no? This tournament means a LOT more to the Dominicans than it does to us. The criticism from the leadup and after game one has been so harsh, GM Stan Javier's already tendered his verbal resignation, effective after the games. One key error by an out-of-place guy, and who knows what happens to Felipe Alou's house postgame. They shoot people over dominoes in the DR. (Well, okay... the psychotic, 100-mph-armed ones whose names rhyme with "Gurgos," anyway.) Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 02:49 PM Well, like I said, they already are playing a shortstop out of position, and world stayed intact. High stakes mean high pressure. It's no place for the weak-kneed, but you still want to make the most effective decision. I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation. Benjamin Grimm Mar 09 2009 02:52 PM ="Edgy DC":1u447jdd]I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation.[/quote:1u447jdd] I would think so. And the difference between third base and shortstop is, I think, less than the difference between second and short. At third the key difference is that you have to react a bit quicker, and at second it's the trickier turn of the double play. MFS62 Mar 09 2009 06:42 PM Many years ago, I spoke with Yank utility player Gil McDougald who played in the majors for several years. http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcdougi01.shtml I asked him about the difference in playing the three positions and about the preparation for playing each. He mentioned the things you folks said above. Then he added that it only took him a few throws during pre-game at the position he was going to play that day to get his arm ready. That surprised me. I guess that's why he was so valuable to the Yanks of that era. Later metirish Mar 18 2009 01:56 PM I like the opening paragraph. That scout for the Marlins talking about the Koreans using BP to work on moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field is what Manuel was preaching at the start of camp. I wonder if that is still a big part of BP for the Mets. Scouts See Works of Art in Asian Teams� Workouts ] By ALAN SCHWARZ Published: March 18, 2009 SAN DIEGO � He could see Meadowlark Lemon turning two, almost hear �Sweet Georgia Brown� whistling through vacuous Petco Park. As Japanese and Korean infielders gobbled up grounders during infield practice Tuesday and whipped the balls among themselves in bouncy syncopation, Mark Weidemaier sensed he was watching a different sport, a different show. �They�re the Harlem Globetrotters,� said Weidemaier, who has spent this week scouting the San Diego bracket of the World Baseball Classic for the Los Angeles Dodgers. �They�re not flashy or showy, I don�t mean that. But the footwork and timing. They�re going full bore, full speed. They go through every play that needs to be made in the game. They�ll get more ground balls than a big-leaguer takes in a week.� Baseball scouts are known for watching games, but the best in the business focus just as much on pregame practice, sometimes more. Three games can pass without getting to see how a shortstop can flash into the hole, or how well a second baseman charges a slow grounder. But when top Asian teams take batting practice, a scout�s inner aesthete awakens to the beauty of the game. Tuesday night � when Korea beat Japan, 4-1, to advance to this weekend�s W.B.C. semifinals � presented a double shot for the two dozen scouts in attendance. All of them want to be prepared in case any player becomes available to be signed, and both teams� hour of pregame drills had oodles to eyeball. �Korea has a B.P. routine they use where it�s more about moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field,� said Orrin Freeman, a longtime scout for the Florida Marlins who has watched international baseball since the 1980s. �You watch a major league team in the United States take B.P., and most of the guys are just playing home run derby.� As Japan and Korea practiced before Tuesday�s game, Freeman watched from the loge seats behind first base. He saw a distinctly Korean defensive drill in which any ball that goes beyond outfielder depth draws an infielder deep onto the grass to take a relatively short cutoff throw, in large part because third-base coaches tend to hold runners if cutoff men already have the ball. After Korea left the field, Japanese infielders took fungoed grounders at almost infield-in depth, pushing their reflexes so that the real game would feel easier, not unlike how a hitter might swing three bats in the on-deck circle. Rob Ducey, a former major league outfielder who scouts for the Toronto Blue Jays, sat beside the third-base dugout and enjoyed a sonata of skills rarely seen in the majors. He saw Japanese shortstop Yasuyuki Kataoka field grounders in perfect position to turn double plays, and other infielders moving to balls on angles that would make Euclid proud. Korean third baseman Bum Ho Lee charged grounders with the intensity of October, which for many foreign players this W.B.C. might as well be. �They work their craft a whole lot more than we do,� Ducey said. �They work on their swings instead of being pull, pull, pull.� Asked how a typical major-leaguer might respond to pregame practices as intense as those of Asian teams, Ducey said: �They�d feel like it was overkill � �I don�t want to get gassed.� Major league players, not all of them, but they do enough to get by because physically they�re such gifted athletes.� Not unlike how Asia�s practices are more rigorously exacting than those in the major leagues, several scouts said that Japan�s infield drills are generally more taut than Korea�s, a difference they ascribed to Korea�s having larger players with more power and less reliance on basic run-at-a-time fundamentals. Cleanup hitter Tae Kyun Kim packs 220 pounds on his six-foot frame, while first baseman Dae Ho Lee stands a downright behemoth 6-foot-4, 264. Japan has only one regular who weighs as much as 205: catcher Kenji Johjima, who perhaps not coincidentally makes his living with the Seattle Mariners. �The Japanese, they are far superior fundamentally,� said Ducey, the Blue Jays� coordinator of Pacific Rim operations. �They take thousands of ground balls a week, not just the young guys, all of them. The Japanese run hard down the line all the time. Koreans, it�s a little haphazard at times. And Koreans are generally more physical, more aggressive at the plate. They�re more suited for our game.� And still, a few hours later, the Koreans proved that they were plenty fundamental, more so, on this night, than Japan. They beat Japan on execution alone, all in the first inning. It started with the first two batters of the game: second baseman Keun Woo Jeong grabbed a high chopper and threw to first to barely nip Japan�s speedy Ichiro Suzuki, and on the next play, first baseman Tae Kyun Kim dived to his right for a hard ground ball and threw to the pitcher hustling over to cover first. Rather than an early first-and-second, no-out jam, the inning soon ended peacefully. And in the bottom half of the inning, Japan looked uncharacteristically clumsy. After a leadoff single, second baseman Akinori Iwamura double-clutched a ground ball in the hole for what was ruled a single; later, with Iwamura trying to start a double play, Kataoka could not handle Iwamura�s low throw and got no out at all. Two batters later, Korea�s Jin Young Lee stroked a beautiful opposite-field single through the left side for two runs, a 3-0 Korea lead and San Diego�s best imitation of Tony Gwynn in years. With the loss, Japan left itself having to play Cuba on Wednesday night to stay alive in the tournament it won three years ago. Disappointing for Japanese fans, but a treat for American scouts. Just another day at the symphony. �Watching the Japanese fungo hitters is great,� Weidemaier noted. �They�re hitting every type of ball that can happen to an infielder: to the left and right, backhand, sharp one-hoppers, backspin, top spin, slow rollers. Rat-a-tat-tat, they�re so precise in all their movements. To me, that�s what makes this game so beautiful.� metirish Mar 24 2009 07:36 AM I think this quote from Davey Johnson in a way ties in nicely with the observation above from the scout. ] "I'm kinda feeling like Earl Weaver, I don't push the running game," Johnson said. "I don't think that was a big factor when I was playing in Japan. I don't think it is today. I think the stolen base and the bunt base hit, those are becoming less and less a factor in the game." Is "small ball" as Davey suggests becoming less a factor in the MLB game ? Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 07:41 AM A difficulty in such discussions is that we treat "small ball" as a monolith. Not all small ball approaches have the same merit. metirish Mar 24 2009 07:47 AM True , I shouldn't have used that term. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 08:01 AM Not at all. It's how the writers use it. metsmarathon Mar 24 2009 08:34 AM americans love to americanize their sports. and by that, i mean that we love to turn every sport into football. american football. who needs quickness and finesse when you can have power and strength? we prefer our sports to be blunt instruments presided over by blunter athletes. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 11:40 AM Not a bad allusion. Centerfield Mar 24 2009 11:58 AM Dae Ho Lee. Not about speed and quickness. Not to rain on the "Playing baseball the right way" parade, but am I the only one that thinks the Asian players lack fundamentals? At least at the plate anyway. They all step in the bucket, they all overswing, and some of their leg kicks are ridiculous. There isn't a short, compact swing on either team.

[Frayed Knot]

Ichiro to pitch in WBC?!?

Probably not, but maybe[/url:1a2k82o1]

[Guest Edgy DC]

Mets making the wrong sort of enemies.

Chavez wants players cleared for WBC

Associated Press

CARACAS, Venezuela -- President Hugo Chavez urged major league baseball teams on Thursday to allow Venezuelan players to represent their country in next month's World Baseball Classic.

"They take away the athlete's right and duty ... to represent Venezuela," said Chavez, speaking during a ceremony to honor Venezuela's under-20 soccer team. "It's constructive criticism of professional sports."

Chavez said baseball should follow the example of professional soccer teams in Europe and the United States, which are forced under FIFA regulations to clear players when they want to join their national teams in international competitions.

Edwin Zerpa, president of the Venezuelan Baseball Federation, said Thursday that he was particularly concerned that the New York Mets might not clear ace Johan Santana to pitch.

"What's most worrisome is that they attempt to stop the pitchers, who are in excellent condition, from playing," Zerpa said. "Without good pitching, you cannot win in baseball."

Mets general manager Omar Minaya has said he is in favor of having players in the WBC.

Other big league stars on the Venezuela roster include: Mets closer Francisco Rodriguez, Detroit outfielder Magglio Ordonez, and Los Angeles Angels outfielder Bobby Abreu.

Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press

[Frayed Knot]

Maybe someone should mention to Hugo about the players who were thinking about not playing because they believe that bureaucrats within the gov't of Venezuela are pocketing much of the money intended for the players.

[Fman99]

="Frayed Knot":2co5mxmt]Maybe someone should mention to Hugo about the players who were thinking about not playing because they believe that bureaucrats within the gov't of Venezuela are pocketing much of the money intended for the players.[/quote:2co5mxmt] Still you can't be mad at Chavez. He made that sick catch in Game 7 of the 2006 NLCS! Oh wait, what?

Frayed Knot Feb 13 2009 10:17 AM

Easy to confuse the two, they're both Venezuelan lefties.

metirish Feb 14 2009 04:38 PM

High cost of insurance is reason why Johan will not play in WBC ] PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- Although the withdrawal of Johan Santana from the World Baseball Classic was for weeks a foregone conclusion within the Mets' organization, Santana said Saturday the club never withheld its approval for him to participate with the Venezuelan team in the international tournament. Santana's remarks came one day after the Classic released a statement explaining that the issue that would deny Santana an opportunity to pitch for his country was the high cost of an insurance premium. Santana, who underwent left knee surgery Oct. 1, said he is one of a number of big league players who will not participate in the Classic because of the insurance issue. He named no others. "It has nothing to do with my willingness to play in the [Classic]," Santana said. "I was preparing myself. Everything was on the right track." Santana said he had heard from his agent, Peter Greenberg, on Friday that the Classic had made a decision. Mets general manager Omar Minaya confirmed the situation with Santana on Saturday morning. "We never had to make a decision about his participation," Minaya said. "It's tough," Santana said. "It's sad. I wanted to pitch."

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 15 2009 10:03 PM

Speaking of things Venezuelan: IN (provisional roster): Victor F-ing Zambrano OUT: Freddy Garcia Really? (HAS to be a lack of interest on the Chief's part.)

Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 08:31 AM

Albert Pujols, out. The pattern seems that any player who had any sort of offseason surgery, and hasn't yet returned to action (like playing winter ball) is uninsurable.

Nymr83 Feb 17 2009 08:41 AM

="Edgy DC":3foyo3u8]Albert Pujols, out. The pattern seems that any player who had any sort of offseason surgery, and hasn't yet returned to action (like playing winter ball) is uninsurable.[/quote:3foyo3u8] Seems like a wise policy to me. F. Garcia was injured, if he wants to make the Mets' opening day roster he's probably better off avoiding the WBC anyway and concentrating on getting healthy to the Mets' satisfaction. I hope Zambrano gets rocked. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 10:58 PM Endy and K-Rod are playing for the 'Zuelas, too. I'll enjoy the games, I'm sure... but a little part of me will be rooting against with too many of Flushing's finest on 'em, if only in hope of fewer injuries. Also, needs more team mascots. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 05:55 AM Endy was the unlikely star for Venezueal three years ago. Brought his power stick then also. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 01:17 PM Fare thee well, Metsies, and come back safe: Beltran Cora Delgado Feliciano Figueroa (shouldn't he be reppin' Brooklyn?) Ollie P. Putz Reyes KRod Wright Am I missing anyone? Edgy DC Mar 02 2009 01:56 PM You've got to be. I saw reports saying the Mets and Red Sox led the bigs in WBC-bound players with 15 each. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 02:01 PM Had everyone on the 40-man... but was missing a handful, yet. As broken down by country in Newsday: Australia Stefan Welch Canada Shawn Bowman Dominican Republic Jose Reyes Mexico Elmer Dessens Oliver Perez Panama Ruben Tejada Puerto Rico Pedro Feliciano Nelson Figueroa Alex Cora Carlos Delgado Carlos Beltran Jesus Feliciano United States J.J. Putz David Wright Venezuela Francisco Rodriguez So... who else is rooting for Cuba-Japan II? Nymr83 Mar 02 2009 02:04 PM Shawn Bowman (Canada), Stefan Welch (Australia), Ruben Tejada (Panama), and Jesus Feliciano (Puerto Rico) are all listed as part of the Mets' organization and are on the rosters on espn.com edit- i got beat to it, but Elmer Dessens is listed as a Brave not a Met here: [url:3izz30jv]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3844570[/url:3izz30jv] Edgy DC Mar 05 2009 11:17 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 24 2009 11:38 AM So, if you're the manager of Equipo DR, and you lose Alex Rodriguez, who is your thirdbaseman? Do you go to Adrian Beltre or do you move Hanley Ramirez (or Miguel Tejada) over there and free up short for Jose Reyes? Nymr83 Mar 05 2009 12:13 PM mpve Ramirez so that you have no trouble starting both him and Reyes Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:11 AM Answer is Tejada. Yeah, I'd move Hanley there also, or move one of them to second, keep Tejada at third and go with the three shortstop lineup. metirish Mar 09 2009 10:27 AM In his minor and major league career Rameriz has played one game at third , Alou can't just slot him in there surely. Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:32 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 09 2009 10:36 AM Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner. metirish Mar 09 2009 10:33 AM Sounds good but I wonder what his club would think about moving him. Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:44 AM If some alleged negative consequence of Ramirez playing third for a few games is upsetting Florida, I'd sure like Alou to push the issue to find out exactly how much kowtowing the WBC managers are expected to do. At any rate, nobody stopped him from moving Tejada over. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 09 2009 10:46 AM The Snooze tried, not very hard not very effectively, to make Reyes' remark that he's be play wherever Alou asked into a controversy which "may make Met management cringe" in a tortured allusion to the Matsui-at-SS thing in '04. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 09 2009 01:56 PM ="Edgy DC":2elgx6dp]Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner.[/quote:2elgx6dp] Porque no? This tournament means a LOT more to the Dominicans than it does to us. The criticism from the leadup and after game one has been so harsh, GM Stan Javier's already tendered his verbal resignation, effective after the games. One key error by an out-of-place guy, and who knows what happens to Felipe Alou's house postgame. They shoot people over dominoes in the DR. (Well, okay... the psychotic, 100-mph-armed ones whose names rhyme with "Gurgos," anyway.) Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 02:49 PM Well, like I said, they already are playing a shortstop out of position, and world stayed intact. High stakes mean high pressure. It's no place for the weak-kneed, but you still want to make the most effective decision. I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation. Benjamin Grimm Mar 09 2009 02:52 PM ="Edgy DC":1u447jdd]I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation.[/quote:1u447jdd] I would think so. And the difference between third base and shortstop is, I think, less than the difference between second and short. At third the key difference is that you have to react a bit quicker, and at second it's the trickier turn of the double play. MFS62 Mar 09 2009 06:42 PM Many years ago, I spoke with Yank utility player Gil McDougald who played in the majors for several years. http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcdougi01.shtml I asked him about the difference in playing the three positions and about the preparation for playing each. He mentioned the things you folks said above. Then he added that it only took him a few throws during pre-game at the position he was going to play that day to get his arm ready. That surprised me. I guess that's why he was so valuable to the Yanks of that era. Later metirish Mar 18 2009 01:56 PM I like the opening paragraph. That scout for the Marlins talking about the Koreans using BP to work on moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field is what Manuel was preaching at the start of camp. I wonder if that is still a big part of BP for the Mets. Scouts See Works of Art in Asian Teams� Workouts ] By ALAN SCHWARZ Published: March 18, 2009 SAN DIEGO � He could see Meadowlark Lemon turning two, almost hear �Sweet Georgia Brown� whistling through vacuous Petco Park. As Japanese and Korean infielders gobbled up grounders during infield practice Tuesday and whipped the balls among themselves in bouncy syncopation, Mark Weidemaier sensed he was watching a different sport, a different show. �They�re the Harlem Globetrotters,� said Weidemaier, who has spent this week scouting the San Diego bracket of the World Baseball Classic for the Los Angeles Dodgers. �They�re not flashy or showy, I don�t mean that. But the footwork and timing. They�re going full bore, full speed. They go through every play that needs to be made in the game. They�ll get more ground balls than a big-leaguer takes in a week.� Baseball scouts are known for watching games, but the best in the business focus just as much on pregame practice, sometimes more. Three games can pass without getting to see how a shortstop can flash into the hole, or how well a second baseman charges a slow grounder. But when top Asian teams take batting practice, a scout�s inner aesthete awakens to the beauty of the game. Tuesday night � when Korea beat Japan, 4-1, to advance to this weekend�s W.B.C. semifinals � presented a double shot for the two dozen scouts in attendance. All of them want to be prepared in case any player becomes available to be signed, and both teams� hour of pregame drills had oodles to eyeball. �Korea has a B.P. routine they use where it�s more about moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field,� said Orrin Freeman, a longtime scout for the Florida Marlins who has watched international baseball since the 1980s. �You watch a major league team in the United States take B.P., and most of the guys are just playing home run derby.� As Japan and Korea practiced before Tuesday�s game, Freeman watched from the loge seats behind first base. He saw a distinctly Korean defensive drill in which any ball that goes beyond outfielder depth draws an infielder deep onto the grass to take a relatively short cutoff throw, in large part because third-base coaches tend to hold runners if cutoff men already have the ball. After Korea left the field, Japanese infielders took fungoed grounders at almost infield-in depth, pushing their reflexes so that the real game would feel easier, not unlike how a hitter might swing three bats in the on-deck circle. Rob Ducey, a former major league outfielder who scouts for the Toronto Blue Jays, sat beside the third-base dugout and enjoyed a sonata of skills rarely seen in the majors. He saw Japanese shortstop Yasuyuki Kataoka field grounders in perfect position to turn double plays, and other infielders moving to balls on angles that would make Euclid proud. Korean third baseman Bum Ho Lee charged grounders with the intensity of October, which for many foreign players this W.B.C. might as well be. �They work their craft a whole lot more than we do,� Ducey said. �They work on their swings instead of being pull, pull, pull.� Asked how a typical major-leaguer might respond to pregame practices as intense as those of Asian teams, Ducey said: �They�d feel like it was overkill � �I don�t want to get gassed.� Major league players, not all of them, but they do enough to get by because physically they�re such gifted athletes.� Not unlike how Asia�s practices are more rigorously exacting than those in the major leagues, several scouts said that Japan�s infield drills are generally more taut than Korea�s, a difference they ascribed to Korea�s having larger players with more power and less reliance on basic run-at-a-time fundamentals. Cleanup hitter Tae Kyun Kim packs 220 pounds on his six-foot frame, while first baseman Dae Ho Lee stands a downright behemoth 6-foot-4, 264. Japan has only one regular who weighs as much as 205: catcher Kenji Johjima, who perhaps not coincidentally makes his living with the Seattle Mariners. �The Japanese, they are far superior fundamentally,� said Ducey, the Blue Jays� coordinator of Pacific Rim operations. �They take thousands of ground balls a week, not just the young guys, all of them. The Japanese run hard down the line all the time. Koreans, it�s a little haphazard at times. And Koreans are generally more physical, more aggressive at the plate. They�re more suited for our game.� And still, a few hours later, the Koreans proved that they were plenty fundamental, more so, on this night, than Japan. They beat Japan on execution alone, all in the first inning. It started with the first two batters of the game: second baseman Keun Woo Jeong grabbed a high chopper and threw to first to barely nip Japan�s speedy Ichiro Suzuki, and on the next play, first baseman Tae Kyun Kim dived to his right for a hard ground ball and threw to the pitcher hustling over to cover first. Rather than an early first-and-second, no-out jam, the inning soon ended peacefully. And in the bottom half of the inning, Japan looked uncharacteristically clumsy. After a leadoff single, second baseman Akinori Iwamura double-clutched a ground ball in the hole for what was ruled a single; later, with Iwamura trying to start a double play, Kataoka could not handle Iwamura�s low throw and got no out at all. Two batters later, Korea�s Jin Young Lee stroked a beautiful opposite-field single through the left side for two runs, a 3-0 Korea lead and San Diego�s best imitation of Tony Gwynn in years. With the loss, Japan left itself having to play Cuba on Wednesday night to stay alive in the tournament it won three years ago. Disappointing for Japanese fans, but a treat for American scouts. Just another day at the symphony. �Watching the Japanese fungo hitters is great,� Weidemaier noted. �They�re hitting every type of ball that can happen to an infielder: to the left and right, backhand, sharp one-hoppers, backspin, top spin, slow rollers. Rat-a-tat-tat, they�re so precise in all their movements. To me, that�s what makes this game so beautiful.� metirish Mar 24 2009 07:36 AM I think this quote from Davey Johnson in a way ties in nicely with the observation above from the scout. ] "I'm kinda feeling like Earl Weaver, I don't push the running game," Johnson said. "I don't think that was a big factor when I was playing in Japan. I don't think it is today. I think the stolen base and the bunt base hit, those are becoming less and less a factor in the game." Is "small ball" as Davey suggests becoming less a factor in the MLB game ? Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 07:41 AM A difficulty in such discussions is that we treat "small ball" as a monolith. Not all small ball approaches have the same merit. metirish Mar 24 2009 07:47 AM True , I shouldn't have used that term. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 08:01 AM Not at all. It's how the writers use it. metsmarathon Mar 24 2009 08:34 AM americans love to americanize their sports. and by that, i mean that we love to turn every sport into football. american football. who needs quickness and finesse when you can have power and strength? we prefer our sports to be blunt instruments presided over by blunter athletes. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 11:40 AM Not a bad allusion. Centerfield Mar 24 2009 11:58 AM Dae Ho Lee. Not about speed and quickness. Not to rain on the "Playing baseball the right way" parade, but am I the only one that thinks the Asian players lack fundamentals? At least at the plate anyway. They all step in the bucket, they all overswing, and some of their leg kicks are ridiculous. There isn't a short, compact swing on either team.

[Frayed Knot]

Easy to confuse the two, they're both Venezuelan lefties.

[metirish]

High cost of insurance is reason why Johan will not play in WBC

] PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- Although the withdrawal of Johan Santana from the World Baseball Classic was for weeks a foregone conclusion within the Mets' organization, Santana said Saturday the club never withheld its approval for him to participate with the Venezuelan team in the international tournament. Santana's remarks came one day after the Classic released a statement explaining that the issue that would deny Santana an opportunity to pitch for his country was the high cost of an insurance premium. Santana, who underwent left knee surgery Oct. 1, said he is one of a number of big league players who will not participate in the Classic because of the insurance issue. He named no others. "It has nothing to do with my willingness to play in the [Classic]," Santana said. "I was preparing myself. Everything was on the right track." Santana said he had heard from his agent, Peter Greenberg, on Friday that the Classic had made a decision. Mets general manager Omar Minaya confirmed the situation with Santana on Saturday morning. "We never had to make a decision about his participation," Minaya said. "It's tough," Santana said. "It's sad. I wanted to pitch."

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Speaking of things Venezuelan:

IN (provisional roster): Victor F-ing Zambrano

OUT: Freddy Garcia

Really? (HAS to be a lack of interest on the Chief's part.)

[Guest Edgy DC]

Albert Pujols, out.

The pattern seems that any player who had any sort of offseason surgery, and hasn't yet returned to action (like playing winter ball) is uninsurable.

[nymr83]

="Edgy DC":3foyo3u8]Albert Pujols, out. The pattern seems that any player who had any sort of offseason surgery, and hasn't yet returned to action (like playing winter ball) is uninsurable.[/quote:3foyo3u8] Seems like a wise policy to me. F. Garcia was injured, if he wants to make the Mets' opening day roster he's probably better off avoiding the WBC anyway and concentrating on getting healthy to the Mets' satisfaction. I hope Zambrano gets rocked.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 10:58 PM

Endy and K-Rod are playing for the 'Zuelas, too. I'll enjoy the games, I'm sure... but a little part of me will be rooting against with too many of Flushing's finest on 'em, if only in hope of fewer injuries. Also, needs more team mascots.

Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 05:55 AM

Endy was the unlikely star for Venezueal three years ago. Brought his power stick then also.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 01:17 PM

Fare thee well, Metsies, and come back safe: Beltran Cora Delgado Feliciano Figueroa (shouldn't he be reppin' Brooklyn?) Ollie P. Putz Reyes KRod Wright Am I missing anyone?

Edgy DC Mar 02 2009 01:56 PM

You've got to be. I saw reports saying the Mets and Red Sox led the bigs in WBC-bound players with 15 each.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 02:01 PM

Had everyone on the 40-man... but was missing a handful, yet. As broken down by country in Newsday: Australia Stefan Welch Canada Shawn Bowman Dominican Republic Jose Reyes Mexico Elmer Dessens Oliver Perez Panama Ruben Tejada Puerto Rico Pedro Feliciano Nelson Figueroa Alex Cora Carlos Delgado Carlos Beltran Jesus Feliciano United States J.J. Putz David Wright Venezuela Francisco Rodriguez So... who else is rooting for Cuba-Japan II?

Nymr83 Mar 02 2009 02:04 PM

Shawn Bowman (Canada), Stefan Welch (Australia), Ruben Tejada (Panama), and Jesus Feliciano (Puerto Rico) are all listed as part of the Mets' organization and are on the rosters on espn.com edit- i got beat to it, but Elmer Dessens is listed as a Brave not a Met here: [url:3izz30jv]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3844570[/url:3izz30jv]

Edgy DC Mar 05 2009 11:17 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 24 2009 11:38 AM

So, if you're the manager of Equipo DR, and you lose Alex Rodriguez, who is your thirdbaseman? Do you go to Adrian Beltre or do you move Hanley Ramirez (or Miguel Tejada) over there and free up short for Jose Reyes?

Nymr83 Mar 05 2009 12:13 PM

mpve Ramirez so that you have no trouble starting both him and Reyes

Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:11 AM

Answer is Tejada. Yeah, I'd move Hanley there also, or move one of them to second, keep Tejada at third and go with the three shortstop lineup.

metirish Mar 09 2009 10:27 AM

In his minor and major league career Rameriz has played one game at third , Alou can't just slot him in there surely.

Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:32 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 09 2009 10:36 AM

Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner.

metirish Mar 09 2009 10:33 AM

Sounds good but I wonder what his club would think about moving him.

Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:44 AM

If some alleged negative consequence of Ramirez playing third for a few games is upsetting Florida, I'd sure like Alou to push the issue to find out exactly how much kowtowing the WBC managers are expected to do. At any rate, nobody stopped him from moving Tejada over.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 09 2009 10:46 AM

The Snooze tried, not very hard not very effectively, to make Reyes' remark that he's be play wherever Alou asked into a controversy which "may make Met management cringe" in a tortured allusion to the Matsui-at-SS thing in '04.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 09 2009 01:56 PM

="Edgy DC":2elgx6dp]Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner.[/quote:2elgx6dp] Porque no? This tournament means a LOT more to the Dominicans than it does to us. The criticism from the leadup and after game one has been so harsh, GM Stan Javier's already tendered his verbal resignation, effective after the games. One key error by an out-of-place guy, and who knows what happens to Felipe Alou's house postgame. They shoot people over dominoes in the DR. (Well, okay... the psychotic, 100-mph-armed ones whose names rhyme with "Gurgos," anyway.) Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 02:49 PM Well, like I said, they already are playing a shortstop out of position, and world stayed intact. High stakes mean high pressure. It's no place for the weak-kneed, but you still want to make the most effective decision. I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation. Benjamin Grimm Mar 09 2009 02:52 PM ="Edgy DC":1u447jdd]I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation.[/quote:1u447jdd] I would think so. And the difference between third base and shortstop is, I think, less than the difference between second and short. At third the key difference is that you have to react a bit quicker, and at second it's the trickier turn of the double play. MFS62 Mar 09 2009 06:42 PM Many years ago, I spoke with Yank utility player Gil McDougald who played in the majors for several years. http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcdougi01.shtml I asked him about the difference in playing the three positions and about the preparation for playing each. He mentioned the things you folks said above. Then he added that it only took him a few throws during pre-game at the position he was going to play that day to get his arm ready. That surprised me. I guess that's why he was so valuable to the Yanks of that era. Later metirish Mar 18 2009 01:56 PM I like the opening paragraph. That scout for the Marlins talking about the Koreans using BP to work on moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field is what Manuel was preaching at the start of camp. I wonder if that is still a big part of BP for the Mets. Scouts See Works of Art in Asian Teams� Workouts ] By ALAN SCHWARZ Published: March 18, 2009 SAN DIEGO � He could see Meadowlark Lemon turning two, almost hear �Sweet Georgia Brown� whistling through vacuous Petco Park. As Japanese and Korean infielders gobbled up grounders during infield practice Tuesday and whipped the balls among themselves in bouncy syncopation, Mark Weidemaier sensed he was watching a different sport, a different show. �They�re the Harlem Globetrotters,� said Weidemaier, who has spent this week scouting the San Diego bracket of the World Baseball Classic for the Los Angeles Dodgers. �They�re not flashy or showy, I don�t mean that. But the footwork and timing. They�re going full bore, full speed. They go through every play that needs to be made in the game. They�ll get more ground balls than a big-leaguer takes in a week.� Baseball scouts are known for watching games, but the best in the business focus just as much on pregame practice, sometimes more. Three games can pass without getting to see how a shortstop can flash into the hole, or how well a second baseman charges a slow grounder. But when top Asian teams take batting practice, a scout�s inner aesthete awakens to the beauty of the game. Tuesday night � when Korea beat Japan, 4-1, to advance to this weekend�s W.B.C. semifinals � presented a double shot for the two dozen scouts in attendance. All of them want to be prepared in case any player becomes available to be signed, and both teams� hour of pregame drills had oodles to eyeball. �Korea has a B.P. routine they use where it�s more about moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field,� said Orrin Freeman, a longtime scout for the Florida Marlins who has watched international baseball since the 1980s. �You watch a major league team in the United States take B.P., and most of the guys are just playing home run derby.� As Japan and Korea practiced before Tuesday�s game, Freeman watched from the loge seats behind first base. He saw a distinctly Korean defensive drill in which any ball that goes beyond outfielder depth draws an infielder deep onto the grass to take a relatively short cutoff throw, in large part because third-base coaches tend to hold runners if cutoff men already have the ball. After Korea left the field, Japanese infielders took fungoed grounders at almost infield-in depth, pushing their reflexes so that the real game would feel easier, not unlike how a hitter might swing three bats in the on-deck circle. Rob Ducey, a former major league outfielder who scouts for the Toronto Blue Jays, sat beside the third-base dugout and enjoyed a sonata of skills rarely seen in the majors. He saw Japanese shortstop Yasuyuki Kataoka field grounders in perfect position to turn double plays, and other infielders moving to balls on angles that would make Euclid proud. Korean third baseman Bum Ho Lee charged grounders with the intensity of October, which for many foreign players this W.B.C. might as well be. �They work their craft a whole lot more than we do,� Ducey said. �They work on their swings instead of being pull, pull, pull.� Asked how a typical major-leaguer might respond to pregame practices as intense as those of Asian teams, Ducey said: �They�d feel like it was overkill � �I don�t want to get gassed.� Major league players, not all of them, but they do enough to get by because physically they�re such gifted athletes.� Not unlike how Asia�s practices are more rigorously exacting than those in the major leagues, several scouts said that Japan�s infield drills are generally more taut than Korea�s, a difference they ascribed to Korea�s having larger players with more power and less reliance on basic run-at-a-time fundamentals. Cleanup hitter Tae Kyun Kim packs 220 pounds on his six-foot frame, while first baseman Dae Ho Lee stands a downright behemoth 6-foot-4, 264. Japan has only one regular who weighs as much as 205: catcher Kenji Johjima, who perhaps not coincidentally makes his living with the Seattle Mariners. �The Japanese, they are far superior fundamentally,� said Ducey, the Blue Jays� coordinator of Pacific Rim operations. �They take thousands of ground balls a week, not just the young guys, all of them. The Japanese run hard down the line all the time. Koreans, it�s a little haphazard at times. And Koreans are generally more physical, more aggressive at the plate. They�re more suited for our game.� And still, a few hours later, the Koreans proved that they were plenty fundamental, more so, on this night, than Japan. They beat Japan on execution alone, all in the first inning. It started with the first two batters of the game: second baseman Keun Woo Jeong grabbed a high chopper and threw to first to barely nip Japan�s speedy Ichiro Suzuki, and on the next play, first baseman Tae Kyun Kim dived to his right for a hard ground ball and threw to the pitcher hustling over to cover first. Rather than an early first-and-second, no-out jam, the inning soon ended peacefully. And in the bottom half of the inning, Japan looked uncharacteristically clumsy. After a leadoff single, second baseman Akinori Iwamura double-clutched a ground ball in the hole for what was ruled a single; later, with Iwamura trying to start a double play, Kataoka could not handle Iwamura�s low throw and got no out at all. Two batters later, Korea�s Jin Young Lee stroked a beautiful opposite-field single through the left side for two runs, a 3-0 Korea lead and San Diego�s best imitation of Tony Gwynn in years. With the loss, Japan left itself having to play Cuba on Wednesday night to stay alive in the tournament it won three years ago. Disappointing for Japanese fans, but a treat for American scouts. Just another day at the symphony. �Watching the Japanese fungo hitters is great,� Weidemaier noted. �They�re hitting every type of ball that can happen to an infielder: to the left and right, backhand, sharp one-hoppers, backspin, top spin, slow rollers. Rat-a-tat-tat, they�re so precise in all their movements. To me, that�s what makes this game so beautiful.� metirish Mar 24 2009 07:36 AM I think this quote from Davey Johnson in a way ties in nicely with the observation above from the scout. ] "I'm kinda feeling like Earl Weaver, I don't push the running game," Johnson said. "I don't think that was a big factor when I was playing in Japan. I don't think it is today. I think the stolen base and the bunt base hit, those are becoming less and less a factor in the game." Is "small ball" as Davey suggests becoming less a factor in the MLB game ? Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 07:41 AM A difficulty in such discussions is that we treat "small ball" as a monolith. Not all small ball approaches have the same merit. metirish Mar 24 2009 07:47 AM True , I shouldn't have used that term. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 08:01 AM Not at all. It's how the writers use it. metsmarathon Mar 24 2009 08:34 AM americans love to americanize their sports. and by that, i mean that we love to turn every sport into football. american football. who needs quickness and finesse when you can have power and strength? we prefer our sports to be blunt instruments presided over by blunter athletes. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 11:40 AM Not a bad allusion. Centerfield Mar 24 2009 11:58 AM Dae Ho Lee. Not about speed and quickness. Not to rain on the "Playing baseball the right way" parade, but am I the only one that thinks the Asian players lack fundamentals? At least at the plate anyway. They all step in the bucket, they all overswing, and some of their leg kicks are ridiculous. There isn't a short, compact swing on either team.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Endy and K-Rod are playing for the 'Zuelas, too.

I'll enjoy the games, I'm sure... but a little part of me will be rooting against with too many of Flushing's finest on 'em, if only in hope of fewer injuries.

Also, needs more team mascots.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Endy was the unlikely star for Venezueal three years ago. Brought his power stick then also.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Fare thee well, Metsies, and come back safe:

Beltran
Cora
Delgado
Feliciano
Figueroa (shouldn't he be reppin' Brooklyn?)
Ollie P.
Putz
Reyes
KRod
Wright

Am I missing anyone?

[Guest Edgy DC]

You've got to be. I saw reports saying the Mets and Red Sox led the bigs in WBC-bound players with 15 each.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Had everyone on the 40-man... but was missing a handful, yet. As broken down by country in Newsday:

Australia
Stefan Welch

Canada
Shawn Bowman

Dominican Republic
Jose Reyes

Mexico
Elmer Dessens
Oliver Perez

Panama
Ruben Tejada

Puerto Rico
Pedro Feliciano
Nelson Figueroa
Alex Cora
Carlos Delgado
Carlos Beltran
Jesus Feliciano

United States
J.J. Putz
David Wright

Venezuela
Francisco Rodriguez

So... who else is rooting for Cuba-Japan II?

[nymr83]

Shawn Bowman (Canada), Stefan Welch (Australia), Ruben Tejada (Panama), and Jesus Feliciano (Puerto Rico) are all listed as part of the Mets' organization and are on the rosters on espn.com


edit- i got beat to it, but Elmer Dessens is listed as a Brave not a Met here:
[url:3izz30jv]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3844570[/url:3izz30jv]