Memories of the Collapse (split from Baseball Prospectus)

[Benjamin Grimm]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: The other crazy thing that night was the Phillies concurrently overcoming a 6-0 deficit and winning. That's the other thng about the Collapse. It was a big failure on our part to be sure, but easy to forget the Phillies had to play almost as good as we played bad to take it, and they did.

Yes, that's why it was all so unlikely. The Mets had to fall apart, and the Phillies had to take full advantage of it.

While the Mets were finishing the season 5-12, the Phillies were going 13-4. Had the Mets gone a mere 7-10, they still would have won the division. And even with the 5-12, if the Phillies had gone 11-6, they still wouldn't have caught the Mets.

So it's fair to say that the Phillies won it as much as the Mets lost it.

[Centerfield]

I had no confidence in the 2007 team, either to make the playoffs, or to do anything when they reached it.

[Guest holychicken]

This thread has taken over as worst thread ever, IMO.

I successfully drank away all memories of the collapse on the last day of the season and now you all are dredging them back up. I won't be able to sleep until the Mets clinch. . .if they even do.

I think I am going to go cry.

[bmfc1]

No! This shows that we're looking at last year head on and saying "F U!" As has been said many times today, the Mets have half the lead they had last year at this time but we're twice as confident. Jerry said that he liked when people brought it up because it shows that the team isn't afraid of repeating what happened. Next week, I will walk into Nats Park, undoubtedly be flooded with the awful memories of the two games I attended at RFK last September, and say "NO WAY!" [u:c4a3d0a946]Bring on the magic numbers![/u:c4a3d0a946]

[Fman99]

themetfairy wrote: It did make me feel better when we were all in the same elimination boat a few days later.

I agree. Once the Phils/MFYs were knocked out I went right back to being able to watch baseball.

I enjoyed the fact that the Phillies won the same number of playoff games as we did last year.

[G-Fafif]

If the following hadn't been written by me on September 13, 2007, I couldn't make it up now.

Prescience is not my bag, baby.

]There are dumb quotes... "Three-and-a-half-game lead and all, the key numbers are these: six games left against Atlanta and 42 against everybody else. The Mets are advised to kick the ever-lovin' spit out of everybody else in those other 42 in order to secure their second consecutive Eastern Division title and another shot at the belt because I have no confidence, none, that they'll handle the Braves in the other six. Not after four series comprised of one win and two losses every time. I thought we buried this bullshit last year. Apparently we have not." �Me, August 9, in a Willie Harris-inspired snit ...and there are smart quotes: "I've run out of things to say. We're not as good as them. They've won every game against us they had to win. That's why they're where they are. We have to find a way to win these close games, and I am talking about next year as well as the next couple of weeks." �John Smoltz, September 12, in a Met-inspired snit Always use smart quotes. Yeah, I would say I was pretty wrong about these Mets and their ability to pick themselves up, dust themselves off and start all over again following the fourth consecutive Braves series that they lost 2-1. I think I was in that Randy Quaid Major League II (not the good one) mode, where he plays the superloyal Indian fan who drowns out all mounting Tribe criticism with supportive, rationalizing blather until he finally reaches his breaking point and completely turns on his team. I didn't see 2007's Met-Brave dynamic as any more than a faint echo of its Coxian worst until Harris leapt and stole Delgado's ninth-inning, game-tying homer five long weeks ago and unleashed some seething demons of distress. Then and only then was I willing to give in to that old chestnut that we'll never beat the Braves when it counts, woe is us and that whole pile of self-pitying shaving cream Mets fans occasionally like to leap into. Met-a culpa. I take it back. I take it back with a grin that reaches from here high atop the National League East to however far out Smoltz and his teammates sit and stew in the doughy middle of this division. I don't ever like to statistically dismiss any opponent who has enough games left with us to uncomfortably close a gap on us. The Braves have no games left with us. They're 9-1/2 back, primarily a function of their losing five of the six head-to-head chances they had to gain on us since August 31. I do believe I've washed the shaving cream off my face and my hands of them for another season. Floss will take care of that delicious plate of crow I just enjoyed. As we gloat, the Phillies are seven behind the Mets, which isn't just formidable, it's a hoot. Remember that when the Mets were going through one of their modestly competent stretches in their summer of stumbling around, they managed to boost their first-place margin to a surprising seven on August 25. It was almost too soon for this recurrently beleaguered cast of characters to pull away. Indeed, they lost the next night to David Wells and then hit the Turnpike for four more defeats. Since then? A nicely done 10-2. The Phillies? Who cares? We're seven games in front, for the love of Pete Incaviglia. That means that even by sweeping us four � three of them with the force of a red-hot poker � the Philadelphians have picked up no ground on us. None! While we were ten-and-twoing, they've been five-and-sevening. What a waste of evil. They have one left with the thunderous Rockies today and then come here for three. I like to run the worst-case scenarios before every series. Phillies win today and then find their inner pokers and brooms, they will sit 3-1/2 back with two weeks to go. That's a pretty unlikely worst-case scenario, but even if it were to come to pass, there would still be the matter of those 3-1/2. I won't rest until we're not swept this weekend � and maybe with one eye open then � but we're in pretty good shape, according to the Metropolitan Department of Understatement. Y'know what's been particularly gratifying about the recent spurt of quality New York Mets baseball? The way it's been achieved. The last four victories have been posted by scores of 3-1, 4-1, 3-2 and 4-3. It's just been so gosh darn sturdy, a bullpen hiccup here or LOB there notwithstanding. The starting's been solid. The defense, except for the occasional pop fly to deep short/shallow center, has been airtight. There have been just enough big hits to make these wins seem a lot wider than they appear. Nothing wrong with a sprawling victory (unless you're Keith Hernandez), but these have been so...pleasant to watch. Beltran Wednesday night in the eighth was a gunning, running clinic along the basepaths. He probably won't receive more than a token MVP point or two, but � due respect to the vitaminwater Kid � Carlos is by his presence the most valuable Met at any given moment. When he does his Beltran best, we win. Shawn Green (L'Shawn-ah Tovah!) is treating September like it followed on the heels of May, like his dreadful post-foot problems didn't happen or at least healed; I do think a little competition for playing time did his soul good. Marlon Anderson is the best second-half spot player this team has picked up since, geez, maybe ever. Alou...Milledge...the revitalized Reyes...the undeniable David...everybody's been doing something helpful at least every couple of days. I'm almost willing to give Mota a pass because he battled Francoeur so gamely, but mostly I'm willing to give Mota a pass to sit in the stands come October. At Shea. Where else, barring horrific circumstances even I'm having a hard time imagining, would the N.L. East champ be playing its home playoff games?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think this is all very therapeutic.

I just hope this doesn't happen again! Sometimes the other shoe does drop, you know.

[metirish]

I like that Manuel is not afraid to talk about it , this should be required reading for the Mets and their fans.

I hear that Fred Wilpon will be on Oprah tomorrow .

[DocTee]

A thread with this title, on this day, that refers to anything other than the fall of the twin towers, is in poor taste.

[soupcan]

="DocTee"]A thread with this title, on this day, that refers to anything other than the fall of the twin towers, is in poor taste.

You know - I was thinking about saying something but, it's just us and we're not a callous group of people. It was not meant as an affront or to disrespect the memory.

[Gwreck]

1. It's in the baseball forum, not the non-baseball forum.

2. Around the Mets, "the collapse" is a pretty well-understood term for September 2007.

3. I've never heard anyone refer to any of events of 9/11/01 as "the collapse" with any regularity.

[metirish]

Is this a joke? , I have never heard 9/11 referred to as the "the collapse".

[Guest holychicken]

metirish wrote: I like that Manuel is not afraid to talk about it , this should be required reading for the Mets and their fans.

I am reading it, but I feel like I am repeatedly whipping myself on the back.

(not necessarily directed at you, irish)

I understand that this year is different, I am pretty sure I noted in an earlier thread about current confidence saying something like, "I was more confident last year that we would make the playoffs, but I feel better about this team than I did about the team last year (at that time)."

It is just that this season is long from over. As frayed (I believe) said in the other thread, we were playing hot right before the final collapse last year . . .

This is baseball and, as we learned the hard way last year, anything can happen. All this thread does is make me feel nervous like I did last year.

And that is why it gets my vote for worst thread ever.

[Guest holychicken]

metirish wrote: Is this a joke? , I have never heard 9/11 referred to as the "the collapse".

This.

9/11 is 9/11. I have never heard it referred to as anything else.

[DocTee]

When I see the date, and the word "collapse" one thing comes to mind, whether it's in a baseball forum or elsewhere.

Call me hypersensitive, if you want. I don't think it was done with any bad intent, but it's a bit unsettling.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Sorry. Wasn't the intent.

[G-Fafif]

Paraphrasing from memory here, but somebody in the Voice covering the ecstasy-laden 2002 Division Series loss by the Yankees to the Angels referred to Yankee pitching as having "collapsed like...(too soon?)" Yes, I thought. Too soon. Always would be too soon.

"Our" collapse, on the other hand, is practically trademarked and tasteproofed by context. Never occurred to me last year when the word gained currency (over the more mundane choke) that it had anything to do with more serious matters. Nor did it today of all days.

For what it's worth, seven years ago today, I never thought I'd take something as piddling as blowing a division title in 2-1/2 weeks as a tragedy. Funny how that works if you're lucky.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Well, context is everything.

It was a tragedy in a baseball-fan sense. It didn't otherwise affect my life, although I was a bit jittery for a couple of weeks there.

By October 1 it was just an unpleasant memory. But now I'm getting the deja vu feeling, so I'm more jittery than I would be otherwise about the Mets.