Makeup Game IGT; Mets - Pirates. 8/11

[Vic Sage]

well, then.
after they blow CF, they can blow me, too.
i don't mind sloppy seconds.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Jerry needs to go into Omar's office -- not the clubhouse -- and turn over the spread, stomp around and tell him to get his head out of his ass. All the other contenders did something to improve themselves.

Either
A) he can't do the job, or
he doesn't think we're contenders.

The Bradford deal is the one that's a kick in the shins. I know we couldn't get him on waivers. But why not before the deadline? That's exactly the type of player we needed.

[bmfc1]

MGIM nails it. Bradford was available but either the Orioles wanted too much or Omar didn't want him enough, if at all. Whichever it was, Omar has done nothing to improve this team this season. He was lucky that Santana "fell back" (his words) to the Mets, and got lucky with Tatis, but he hasn't made any trades this season which leads to disasters like we saw today. The bullpen helped get Willie fired and it will do the same to Jerry. We keep hearing that Omar will work the waiver wire but a) he hasn't done so yet and even if he picked up somebody tonight, it wouldn't change today's result. He has been passive to a fault.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

Well fuck, they were winning when I left.

Games like this do a lot to make me feel better about not being able to watch them after I move south.

[Guest KC]

I disagree with both of you, sorta. There are too many innings in a row,
game to game, when this offense goes into snooze mode with a lead.

Wright had a nice game, but threw his bat down in disgust in his last AB
because he knew it. They needed another run or two. Easley sucked today.

Sure they could use a guy to step up in the pen or have traded for this
'magical guy' that every team needs ... tossing buffet tables or marching
into GM offices is a bit over-dramatic in my opinion.

I think it's time to give Kunz a shot at a save, I think we'll see that next
time there is the opportunity for one.

OE: typing slowly and talking to bm and mgim, not OO.

[Guest PiazzaFan411]

What I want to know is what Manuel said in the dugout that made the fuckwad of a home-plate umpire to toss him. I know he had a good point at least, they gave the Pirates the BOTD on the close ones and not the Mets. I was shocked to see him get tossed that fast.

Otherwise it seemed that Wright, Martinez and Sanchez seemed to be doing most of the work tonight.

[soupcan]

KC wrote: I disagree with both of you, sorta. There are too many innings in a row, game to game, when this offense goes into snooze mode with a lead. Wright had a nice game, but threw his bat down in disgust in his last AB because he knew it. They needed another run or two. Easley sucked today.

If they had won 5-1 you wouldn't have written this. The offense is not the problem, the defense is not the problem, the starting pitching is not the problem, the manager is not the problem.

It's the bullpen. Last year, this year.

[Guest KC]

Ok, so go turn over a buffet table.

[soupcan]

...and it ain't the assorted meats.

[Guest KC]

My underlying beef here was more in response to they shoulda done this
and other teams did that. That's easy crap to type when you're pissed.

I don't recall anyone saying Wagner looks spent, or he looks hurt at the
trade deadline. I also take issue with people who think the bullpen is just
an easy thing to prop up via a quick trade ... everyone needs middle relief
pitching, it's the nature of today's game.

The assorted meats comment is probably funny, but I don't get it.

[metirish]

Oh stop making sense KC , now is not the time.

[bmfc1]

"I also take issue with people who think the bullpen is just an easy thing to prop up via a quick trade."

It's not but you gotta try. Omar didn't. Wouldn't you rather have Bradford than Joe Smith? I would. What's the expression? Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That's the Mets bullpen these days.

"That's easy crap to type when you're pissed" I wouldn't say that about your opinion. This is the CPF, not a MFY board.

[metirish]

Well I think Minaya probably tried and the asking price in his determination was too high , I'm down with that...knowwhatimean?

[bmfc1]

I hope that was the case metirish--I just don't understand how most other teams, including the MFYs, got something when our team got nothing and needed something in the 'pen so badly.

[stevejrogers]

="bmfc1"]"I also take issue with people who think the bullpen is just an easy thing to prop up via a quick trade." It's not but you gotta try. Omar didn't. Wouldn't you rather have Bradford than Joe Smith? I would. What's the expression? Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That's the Mets bullpen these days. "That's easy crap to type when you're pissed" I wouldn't say that about your opinion. This is the CPF, not a MFY board.

That's insanity.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

KC wrote: Ok, so go turn over a buffet table.

I didn't mean literally.

My point is that the blame is headed to the wrong place. You can only blame Feliciano and Heilman so much, because they've proven time and again that they do what they do. If they could change, they would. But they're either burned out or don't have the skills.

The blame is for the people who send them out game after game.

It's not Manuel's fault, though I'd like to see Kunz in there for a change. But he's going with the horses he's got.

Everybody knew at the end of last year that the bully couldn't get the job done. And the best he could do was Matt Wise?

Yes, Omar upgraded the rotation. Props for that. And I suppose that when you have better starters and they pitch deeper, that's less strain on the pen and the pen is better.

But hell, we knew by May that the pen wasn't any better. And he'd done nothing to improve it.

We gave up a chunk of farm to get the best pitcher in the game in his prime, and we're pissing him away because he has to pitch a complete game to get a stinking win.

With this happening time and again, how do you do nothing? I'm not saying to give up what's left of the farm for Huston Street or Brian Fuentes. But you'd think there was someone out there who would be even a little upgrade.

[soupcan]

KC wrote: The assorted meats comment is probably funny, but I don't get it.

'Cuz if you're flipping over the buffet table aren't you blaming the food...?

[Guest themetfairy]

It was frustrating being there as the final third of the game unfolded. Feh!

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

]You can only blame Feliciano and Heilman so much, because they've proven time and again that they do what they do. If they could change, they would. But they're either burned out or don't have the skills.

I vote "both"

Heilman is leading the NL in appearances with 62 (tied with Blaine Boyer of ATL). Feliciano is tied for 2nd with 61. Smith has 58 apps, tied for 9th.

[bmfc1]

Matt Cerrone opines, today:

�if all else fails, the Mets should put Omar Minaya on the mound, because, frankly, it�s starting to feel as though his lack of action � be it in the off-season, or at the trade deadline � is starting to bite his staff in the behind�

�this is essentially the exact same bullpen that failed him in 2007, and yet omar�s only moves were Matt Wise, who is on the disabled list; Steven Register, who was cut and sent back to the Rockies; and hoping for a strong return from Duaner Sanchez, who has totally lost his fastball in recent weeks�

�to omar�s credit, though, the buzz from shea during July was that he had been working hard to change the dynamic of the pen, as he tried to acquire a relief pitcher to add in the mix�however, teams were asking for too much, which is obvious when you consider that like Huston Street, JJ Putz, George Sherrill, etc., were not traded � they were not traded at all, so clearly teams were asking too much in return�

�that said, Arthur Rhodes and Chad Bradford were traded in exchange for one minor-leaguer�and while a player like Scott Eyre is hardly exciting, as he was recently traded to the Phillies, at least he�s some one different�

�it�s a shame really, because, between the Mets, Phillies and Marlins, the Mets have the easiest schedule from now through the end of the season�of course, that means nothing if the bullpen isn�t there to close the deal�

[metirish]

Huston Street is no longer the closer for the A's , apparently he is going through his own troubles on the mound. His replacement is rookie Brad Ziegler.

[Guest AG/DC]

It strikes me that we have some kind of team rule where we have to give away a win to Pittsburgh once a year.

[Gwreck]

From your CPF research department:

2008: This thread, this game.

2007: August 16, 2007. Mets up 7-4 after 5 innings. Lose 10-7. Mota/Feliciano/Heilman give back 3 runs in the 6th and 7th to tie. Errors by Wright and DiFelice lead to 3 unearned runs in the 8th for the Pirates.

Relive the misery here.

2006: September 16, 2006. 2 outs, bottom of the 9th, tie game. Joe Randa walks, Ronny Paulino RBI double off Heilman scores him. This was the series where any win would have clinched the division for us but we got swept instead.

Relive it here.

2005: July 8, 2005. Mets had just taken 3 of 4 from Washington, who were the division leaders at the time (!). Mets up 5-1 going to the bottom of the 9th. Heilman (umm, him again) loads the bases with two outs, and Willie goes to Looper. After an epic 12-pitch at bat, Tike Redman hits a 2-RBI single; it's followed immediately by a Matt Lawton 2-RBI double.

In the 10th, Looper still in, 2-base throwing error by Miguel Cairo puts the winning run at second. Humberto Cota with the walk-off single.

More misery here.

2004: Whole bunch of crappy loses, one doesn't stick out:

April 16, 2004: Glavine goes 7 IP, 1 H, 0 Runs. In the 8th, the Pirates get 7 runs of the trio of Orber Moreno, Mike Stanton and Dan Wheeler.

April 17, 2004: Pirates starter Oliver Perez goes 6 2/3 shutout innings, but then walks 2 and Wiggington ties it (1-1) with an RBI single. Trachsel gives the run back the next inning and the Mets lose 2-1.

September 19, 2004: Aaron Heilman goes 7 IP, 2 H, 1 R, but again takes the loss against the Pirates when the Mets get 3 hits and no runs for the whole game.

2003: September 25, 2003. Bob Murphy's last game. Mets lose 3-1, only run on a Wiggington solo homer. Also Piazza's first game at first base.

2002: September 24, 2002. Mets up 3-0 after 6. Give up 2 in the 7th and 4 in the 8th to lose 6-3. Steve Reed, Mark Guthrie and David Weathers are your culprits.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Well done.

[Guest AG/DC]

Wow, that's the kind of impression that I hoped was just an impression.

It looks like only the 2003 game wasn't a give-back.

We really need to sweep the season series decisively from them next year. Actually, let's start now.

Gwood gwork, Gwreck.

[Centerfield]

I guess those games could be considered the revenge of Brad Clontz.

[G-Fafif]

="Gwreck"]From your CPF research department: September 19, 2004: Aaron Heilman goes 7 IP, 2 H, 1 R, but again takes the loss against the Pirates when the Mets get 3 hits and no runs for the whole game. Mets swept in a DH that afternoon in PNC, I recall. Art Howe was in his fired/not fired state. The night before we barely hung on. Jason Bay introduced himself to us as ROTY in waiting, one more trade gone south for us. Plus I was out looking for the papers that Sunday and saw reSkankified El Duque on Baseball Weekly cover bragging that he's a great October pitcher and the MFYs were sizzling. It was the most depressed I'd been since, well, the year before. 2004 had seemed, until late August, not so bad. That weekend in Pittsburgh reminded me it had all gone to hell again. Never would have dreamed 2005 would get us above the water line and that we'd stay there for a while. Let's beat them tonight, shall we?