SCHAEFER METS PLAYER AND PITCHER OF THE MONTH, APRIL 2008

[Benjamin Grimm]

SCHAEFER METS PLAYER AND PITCHER OF THE MONTH, APRIL 2008

The Schaefer Mets Player of the Month for April 2008 is DAVID WRIGHT. This is the sixth time that David has been Player of the Month. (He won three times in 2007, and once each in 2005 and 2006. He's also won the Player of the Year award in each of the past three seasons.) David's productive first half of April allowed him to withstand a challenge from Ryan Church, who also had a strong month. Wright led the Mets in April with 4 home runs, 20 rbi, 47 total bases, a slugging percentage of .511 and an OBP of .409. His 8 doubles in April tied for the club lead with Carlos Beltran, as did his 22 walks. Church led the Mets with a .319 batting average and had 3 home runs and 18 rbi.

The Schaefer Mets Pitcher of the Month for April 2008 is JOHAN SANTANA. This is, obviously, Johan's first win. He narrowly missed outpolling David Wright as Player of the Month. (The fact that his first game of the season was played on March 31 was a factor.) Santana was 2-2 with a team-best 3.24 ERA in five April starts. He led the Mets with 31 strikeouts and only walked 6. He also led the club in innings pitched with 33.1.


Month-to-date totals for April 2008
Through game of April 30, 2008

Rank	Name	Points
1	David Wright	18.78
2	Ryan Church	17.59
3	Johan Santana	17.31
4	Carlos Beltran	12.90
5	Jos� Reyes	12.21
6	Angel Pagan	11.73
7	John Maine	11.09
8	Nelson Figueroa	10.75
9	Carlos Delgado	9.94
10	Oliver Perez	9.77
11	Mike Pelfrey	7.69
12	Billy Wagner	7.63
13	Aaron Heilman	6.45
14	Jorge Sosa	6.42
15	Luis Castillo	6.03
16	Brian Schneider	6.01
17	Joe Smith	5.42
18	Damion Easley	4.63
19	Raul Casanova	4.44
20	Duaner Sanchez	4.02
21	Pedro Feliciano	3.79
22	Scott Schoeneweis	3.56
23	Endy Chavez	1.86
23	Carlos Muniz	1.86
25	Marlon Anderson	1.13
26	Brady Clark	0.70
27	Pedro Martinez	0.04
28	Gustavo Molina	0.02

Season-to-date totals for 2008
Through game of April 30, 2008

Rank	Name	Points
1	Johan Santana	21.72
2	David Wright	21.09
3	Ryan Church	17.83
4	Carlos Beltran	13.89
5	Jos� Reyes	12.91
6	Angel Pagan	12.24
7	John Maine	11.09
8	Nelson Figueroa	10.75
9	Carlos Delgado	9.94
10	Oliver Perez	9.77
11	Mike Pelfrey	7.69
12	Billy Wagner	7.63
13	Aaron Heilman	6.75
14	Jorge Sosa	6.65
15	Luis Castillo	6.19
16	Brian Schneider	6.03
17	Joe Smith	5.42
18	Damion Easley	4.63
19	Raul Casanova	4.44
20	Duaner Sanchez	4.02
21	Pedro Feliciano	3.79
22	Scott Schoeneweis	3.66
23	Endy Chavez	1.86
23	Carlos Muniz	1.86
25	Marlon Anderson	1.17
26	Brady Clark	0.70
27	Pedro Martinez	0.04
28	Gustavo Molina	0.02

[Valadius]

That Ryan Church has sure been worth it so far, hasn't he?

[Frayed Knot]

So does this mean Santana was the PotM for March?
Seems to me that I would include the occasional stray March games into the April totals but if that's not the way we've been doing it ...

[Willets Point]

Regular season games in October are similarly slighted in PotM.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yeah, there's a script that does all the totaling, and it breaks it down strictly by month.

So Santana will have to content himself with Pitcher of the Month for April, but he's also Player AND Pitcher of the Month for March, I suppose.

[Guest *62]

Johan wants a re-count with his first start factored in.

Script can't punk a brother like that.

[Guest Triple Dee]

] Billy Wagner 7.63 Aaron Heilman 6.75

That's not what I would call an accurate reflection.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

="Triple Dee"] ] Billy Wagner 7.63 Aaron Heilman 6.75 That's not what I would call an accurate reflection.

Take it up with Willie. Heilman's getting twice the opportunity.

[Guest AG/DC]

Agreed, but voters have to answer for some of that also.

[Frayed Knot]

I think that's at least partially the result of a prejudice that's common to baseball fans in general and is reflected in the PotG voting.
What happens is that when a middle reliever throws a scoreless 6th, 7th or 8th he's usually lauded with cries of 'great job' or 'kept us in the game', while a closer tossing a scoreless 9th it's considered 'just doing his job' and not looked at as anything special. It's like we expect the middle guys to give up runs and therefore a scoreless inning is considered a huge plus while with closers we expect perfection so anything short of a 1-2-3 inning in a 1-run game is treated as merely ho-hum and not worthy of much praise.

Now I'd have to go back to each game to see if that's the specific reason why this looks skewed, but I've definitely seen Schafer voting where that's been the case.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm guilty of that to a degree -- but its more a function of not overrewarding the closer while trying to make note of the contributions from the middle guys. I'm not sure how to solve that ... as said above I'm more concerned about "player brand equity" bias seeping into voting.

[Guest AG/DC]

Lost games oft lead to throwing hunks of meat at the relievers who threw scoreless innings that the offense didn't take advantage of, but closers are almost always only eligible in victories where they are competing with other fine performances.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I generally give points to relief pitchers based on the score and the number of innings pitched.

If they pitch one inning or less, they have to have been unscored upon. (Or at least, no earned runs.) If they pitch more than one, they can earn points from me even if they're not scoreless.

A scoreless inning in a tie- or one-run game gets more from me than a scoreless inning when the Mets have a three-run lead.

So if Feliciano pitches a scoreless 8th when the Mets are up 2-1, and then the Mets score two more runs and Wagner pitches a scoreless ninth with a 4-1 lead, I'll give more to Feliciano.

I also give more points to guys who come in with runners on base and get out of the jam (something Wagner almost never gets a chance to do) or to guys who face three tough hitters, as opposed to the bottom of the order.

[Frayed Knot]

Opportunities are definitely part of it, and even in Wagner's near-perfection so far only a couple of his outings have been cliff-hangers.

It's just that there have been numerous times where I've found myself shaking my head at votes like:
Feliciano - 1.0 (7th)
Heilman - 1.0 (8th)
Wagner - 0.5 (9th)
as the result of virtually identical situations - and if Wagner's inning isn't "clean" (ie. he allows a baserunner) or comes in something other than a 1-run game his points can disappear almost completely.

[Guest Triple Dee]

I recall somebody (I can't remember who -- not that I wish to name name's in any case) gave Heilman "4" for the two outs he recorded against Phillies earlier in the season, which struck me as a bit excessive.

Be that as it may, does anybody think it would be a good idea to introduce a Schaefer Reliever award, because it is next to impossible for a reliever to win the pitcher's award.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Here are the games in which Wagner earned Schaefer points, and the number of points earned by his fellow relievers:

Date          Player             Points  ip    h     r     er    so    bb    ibb   decision
04/02/2008    Nelson Figueroa     0.09     1     0     0     0     1     0     0
04/02/2008    Billy Wagner        0.02     1     0     0     0     1     0     0
04/02/2008    Pedro Feliciano     0.02     1     1     0     0     0     0     0

04/10/2008    Pedro Feliciano     0.97     1     0     0     0     3     1     0
04/10/2008    Scott Schoeneweis   0.93   1.1     0     0     0     0     0     0
04/10/2008    Billy Wagner        0.54     1     0     0     0     2     1     0
04/10/2008    Joe Smith           0.43   1.1     2     0     0     1     1     0
04/10/2008    Jorge Sosa          0.18   0.1     0     0     0     0     0     0   W

04/11/2008    Billy Wagner         0.9     1     0     0     0     0     0     0   Sv
04/11/2008    Aaron Heilman       0.79     1     0     0     0     2     0     0
04/11/2008    Joe Smith           0.74     1     0     0     0     0     0     0

04/16/2008    Joe Smith           0.93   1.1     0     0     0     2     0     0
04/16/2008    Billy Wagner        0.72     1     0     0     0     1     0     0   Sv

04/17/2008    Jorge Sosa          1.18     2     2     0     0     2     1     0   W
04/17/2008    Joe Smith           0.91   1.1     0     0     0     1     0     0
04/17/2008    Duaner Sanchez      0.87   1.2     1     0     0     1     1     0
04/17/2008    Aaron Heilman       0.62     1     0     0     0     1     0     0
04/17/2008    Billy Wagner        0.58     1     0     0     0     1     0     0
04/17/2008    Pedro Feliciano     0.03     0     0     0     0     0     1     0

04/18/2008    Billy Wagner        0.85     1     0     0     0     0     0     0   Sv
04/18/2008    Pedro Feliciano     0.11   0.1     0     0     0     1     0     0

04/19/2008    Aaron Heilman       1.39   0.2     1     0     0     2     0     0
04/19/2008    Billy Wagner        0.95     1     0     0     0     1     0     0   Sv
04/19/2008    Duaner Sanchez      0.36   0.1     0     0     0     0     0     0

04/23/2008    Duaner Sanchez      0.56     1     0     0     0     1     0     0
04/23/2008    Billy Wagner        0.46     1     0     0     0     2     1     0

04/26/2008    Billy Wagner        1.19     1     0     0     0     1     0     0   Sv
04/26/2008    Duaner Sanchez      0.75   0.2     0     0     0     0     0     0
04/26/2008    Scott Schoeneweis   0.69     1     0     0     0     1     1     0
04/26/2008    Aaron Heilman       0.02     1     2     1     1     1     0     0
04/26/2008    Pedro Feliciano     0.01   0.1     1     0     0     1     0     0

04/27/2008    Billy Wagner        0.71     1     1     0     0     1     0     0   Sv
04/27/2008    Pedro Feliciano     0.59     1     0     0     0     0     0     0
04/27/2008    Scott Schoeneweis   0.45     1     1     0     0     0     0     0
04/27/2008    Joe Smith           0.23   0.2     0     0     0     0     0     0

04/29/2008    Billy Wagner        0.71     2     2     1     0     2     0     0
04/29/2008    Jorge Sosa          0.68     1     1     0     0     0     0     0   W
04/29/2008    Scott Schoeneweis   0.43   0.2     0     0     0     0     0     0
04/29/2008    Pedro Feliciano     0.42   0.1     0     0     0     0     0     0

05/04/2008    Jorge Sosa          0.66   0.2     0     0     0     0     0     0   W
05/04/2008    Billy Wagner        0.63     1     0     0     0     1     0     0   Sv
05/04/2008    Pedro Feliciano      0.1   0.1     2     0     0     0     0     0

[TransMonk]

="AG/DC":3n25rbvz]Lost games oft lead to throwing hunks of meat at the relievers who threw scoreless innings that the offense didn't take advantage of, but closers are almost always only eligible in victories where they are competing with other fine performances.[/quote:3n25rbvz] Ding, ding. Look at the last 2 night's POTG voting. Relievers are getting suds for not letting the game get further out of hand. Those are votes that Wagner can never get. I can't bring myself to give Schaefer in losses...this problem being just one of the reasons.

themetfairy May 07 2008 10:25 AM

]TransMonk Ding, ding. Look at the last 2 night's POTG voting. Relievers are getting suds for not letting the game get further out of hand. Those are votes that Wagner can never get. On the other hands, middle relievers who pitch well in games where a lot of runs score tend to get left out of the suds. So if they get a little more recognition in games where the offense is lacking, I'm fine with that. There are plenty of quirks in the system. The other day Reyes almost hit for the cycle, but there was so much offense all around that there wasn't much beer to give him. Guys who shine in games where everyone else lies down on the job will tend to get more recognition than those who do well when everyone is contributing.

Willets Point May 07 2008 10:34 AM

I think the whole "coming in at the top of the 9th to get three outs and a save" thing is something that doesn't deserve a lot of reward much of the time. If Wagner did the Jamesian thing and came in during tough situations regardless of inning he'd get more points (or not, if he sucked at it).

Benjamin Grimm May 07 2008 11:08 AM

="Willets Point":2psv2sa2]I think the whole "coming in at the top of the 9th to get three outs and a save" thing is something that doesn't deserve a lot of reward much of the time. [/quote:2psv2sa2] That's how I see it too. Sure, if he retires Rollins, Utley, and Howard in a one-run game, then I'd give him a full point, or more. But if it's the 7th and 8th-place hitters, followed by some no-name pinch hitter in a game when the Mets have a three-run lead, that's a whole nother story. AG/DC May 07 2008 11:13 AM Well, it's worth noting that, just as managers save their best pitcher for the ninth no matter what the score, they oft save their best hitters for the ninth, and they almost never face a bad one. Frayed Knot May 07 2008 12:38 PM ="Willets Point":30rr8469]I think the whole "coming in at the top of the 9th to get three outs and a save" thing is something that doesn't deserve a lot of reward much of the time. [/quote:30rr8469] And that's fine, except that at times the guys getting three outs by coming in at the top of the 7th of 8th ARE being rewarded for the same thing we seem to think is routine in the 9th - and I think it's because the expectations factor comes in to play. It would be a bit like rewarding - oh let's say Schneider - more for a 2 HR game than Delgado on the same day (all other things being equal) based on the logic that 'it's what we pay Delgado for' while from Schneider it's unexpected. metsmarathon May 07 2008 03:30 PM wagner is screwed by the fact that he usually only performs in wins. his performances are always normalized and derated due to the increased performances by his peers. in wins, there simply isnt enough schaeffer to go around. in losses, which wagner does not participate in often unless they are by his own hand, a lesser performance is often rewarded by greater beering. for nearly every other player, this effect should balance out. for wagner, it cannot. i think, too, that for teh same reason that we would give wagner more points for a one run save than a two run save - that there is less of a safety net - we should award more points for pitching hte ninth inning than the eighth. if, in his next start, nelson figueroa goes out, pitches a perfect first inning, and leaves the game due to an extended rain delay, the game gets to the eighth inning tied 0-0, wherein duaner sanchez throws a perfect inning, followed by the mets plating a run in the bottom of the eighth, and wagner ices it with a perfect ninth, which of the three pitchers would get the most schaeffer? i'll tell you right now, it wouldn't be nelson. take the same game, and switch it up. lets say it gets to the eigth, and sanchez gives up a run - a perfect inning aside from one measley home run over the center field fence. but the mets score two runs in the bottom of the eighth, and in comes wagner. he, too, pitches a perfect inning, save, of course, for a home run over the center field fence. did one home run affect the outcome of the game more than the other? if we were giving out negative schaeffer points, would more go to sanchez, or to wagner? Frayed Knot May 07 2008 05:11 PM ="Triple Dee":3bof42r3]I recall somebody (I can't remember who -- not that I wish to name name's in any case) gave Heilman "4" for the two outs he recorded against Phillies earlier in the season, which struck me as a bit excessive.[/quote:3bof42r3] It's possible that was m.e.t.b.o.t. - he occasionally dips a bit heavy into the 40 weight oil. metsmarathon May 07 2008 06:54 PM nah... the little guy gave a 1.81 in that game. it was someone else. seawolf17 May 07 2008 07:19 PM It was me. I thought Heilman saved that game. *62 May 07 2008 07:55 PM When awarding points to relievers I favor inherited runners stranded - Feliciano K'ing one hitter with the bases loaded full of Ollie's walks is worth half a point every time, minimum ..... if Wagner pitches a clean ninth, I want to see who he faced first and whether or not it was a save situation ..... if everyone has their own preferences, which we obviously do, it should even out. themetfairy May 07 2008 08:01 PM Like *62, I feel that Inherited Runners Stranded is an important consideration. Benjamin Grimm May 07 2008 09:24 PM Let's try this again... SCHAEFER METS PLAYER AND PITCHERS OF THE MONTH, APRIL 2008 The Schaefer Mets Player of the Month for April 2008 is DAVID WRIGHT. This is the sixth time that David has been Player of the Month. (He won three times in 2007, and once each in 2005 and 2006. He's also won the Player of the Year award in each of the past three seasons.) David's productive first half of April allowed him to withstand a challenge from Ryan Church, who also had a strong month. Wright led the Mets in April with 4 home runs, 20 rbi, 47 total bases, a slugging percentage of .511 and an OBP of .409. His 8 doubles in April tied for the club lead with Carlos Beltran, as did his 22 walks. Church led the Mets with a .319 batting average and had 3 home runs and 18 rbi. The Schaefer Mets Pitcher of the Month for April 2008 is JOHAN SANTANA. This is, obviously, Johan's first win. He narrowly missed outpolling David Wright as Player of the Month. (The fact that his first game of the season was played on March 31 was a factor.) Santana was 2-2 with a team-best 3.24 ERA in five April starts. He led the Mets with 31 strikeouts and only walked 6. He also led the club in innings pitched with 33.1. And inaugurating a new category, the Schaefer Mets Relief Pitcher of the Month for April is BILLY WAGNER. Billy had a 0.00 ERA in April in 11 games. In 12 innings, he had allowed 3 hits and 2 walks, while striking out 12. He saved 6 games. Month-to-date totals for April 2008 Through game of April 30, 2008 Rank Name Points 1 David Wright 18.78 2 Ryan Church 17.59 3 Johan Santana 17.31 4 Carlos Beltran 12.90 5 Jos� Reyes 12.21 6 Angel Pagan 11.73 7 John Maine 11.09 8 Nelson Figueroa 10.75 9 Carlos Delgado 9.94 10 Oliver Perez 9.77 11 Mike Pelfrey 7.69 12 Billy Wagner 7.63 13 Aaron Heilman 6.45 14 Jorge Sosa 6.42 15 Luis Castillo 6.03 16 Brian Schneider 6.01 17 Joe Smith 5.42 18 Damion Easley 4.63 19 Raul Casanova 4.44 20 Duaner Sanchez 4.02 21 Pedro Feliciano 3.79 22 Scott Schoeneweis 3.56 23 Endy Chavez 1.86 23 Carlos Muniz 1.86 25 Marlon Anderson 1.13 26 Brady Clark 0.70 27 Pedro Martinez 0.04 28 Gustavo Molina 0.02 Season-to-date totals for 2008 Through game of April 30, 2008 Rank Name Points 1 Johan Santana 21.72 2 David Wright 21.09 3 Ryan Church 17.83 4 Carlos Beltran 13.89 5 Jos� Reyes 12.91 6 Angel Pagan 12.24 7 John Maine 11.09 8 Nelson Figueroa 10.75 9 Carlos Delgado 9.94 10 Oliver Perez 9.77 11 Mike Pelfrey 7.69 12 Billy Wagner 7.63 13 Aaron Heilman 6.75 14 Jorge Sosa 6.65 15 Luis Castillo 6.19 16 Brian Schneider 6.03 17 Joe Smith 5.42 18 Damion Easley 4.63 19 Raul Casanova 4.44 20 Duaner Sanchez 4.02 21 Pedro Feliciano 3.79 22 Scott Schoeneweis 3.66 23 Endy Chavez 1.86 23 Carlos Muniz 1.86 25 Marlon Anderson 1.17 26 Brady Clark 0.70 27 Pedro Martinez 0.04 28 Gustavo Molina 0.02

[Guest themetfairy]

]TransMonk Ding, ding. Look at the last 2 night's POTG voting. Relievers are getting suds for not letting the game get further out of hand. Those are votes that Wagner can never get.

On the other hands, middle relievers who pitch well in games where a lot of runs score tend to get left out of the suds. So if they get a little more recognition in games where the offense is lacking, I'm fine with that.

There are plenty of quirks in the system. The other day Reyes almost hit for the cycle, but there was so much offense all around that there wasn't much beer to give him. Guys who shine in games where everyone else lies down on the job will tend to get more recognition than those who do well when everyone is contributing.

[Willets Point]

I think the whole "coming in at the top of the 9th to get three outs and a save" thing is something that doesn't deserve a lot of reward much of the time. If Wagner did the Jamesian thing and came in during tough situations regardless of inning he'd get more points (or not, if he sucked at it).

[Benjamin Grimm]

="Willets Point":2psv2sa2]I think the whole "coming in at the top of the 9th to get three outs and a save" thing is something that doesn't deserve a lot of reward much of the time. [/quote:2psv2sa2] That's how I see it too. Sure, if he retires Rollins, Utley, and Howard in a one-run game, then I'd give him a full point, or more. But if it's the 7th and 8th-place hitters, followed by some no-name pinch hitter in a game when the Mets have a three-run lead, that's a whole nother story.

AG/DC May 07 2008 11:13 AM

Well, it's worth noting that, just as managers save their best pitcher for the ninth no matter what the score, they oft save their best hitters for the ninth, and they almost never face a bad one.

Frayed Knot May 07 2008 12:38 PM

="Willets Point":30rr8469]I think the whole "coming in at the top of the 9th to get three outs and a save" thing is something that doesn't deserve a lot of reward much of the time. [/quote:30rr8469] And that's fine, except that at times the guys getting three outs by coming in at the top of the 7th of 8th ARE being rewarded for the same thing we seem to think is routine in the 9th - and I think it's because the expectations factor comes in to play. It would be a bit like rewarding - oh let's say Schneider - more for a 2 HR game than Delgado on the same day (all other things being equal) based on the logic that 'it's what we pay Delgado for' while from Schneider it's unexpected. metsmarathon May 07 2008 03:30 PM wagner is screwed by the fact that he usually only performs in wins. his performances are always normalized and derated due to the increased performances by his peers. in wins, there simply isnt enough schaeffer to go around. in losses, which wagner does not participate in often unless they are by his own hand, a lesser performance is often rewarded by greater beering. for nearly every other player, this effect should balance out. for wagner, it cannot. i think, too, that for teh same reason that we would give wagner more points for a one run save than a two run save - that there is less of a safety net - we should award more points for pitching hte ninth inning than the eighth. if, in his next start, nelson figueroa goes out, pitches a perfect first inning, and leaves the game due to an extended rain delay, the game gets to the eighth inning tied 0-0, wherein duaner sanchez throws a perfect inning, followed by the mets plating a run in the bottom of the eighth, and wagner ices it with a perfect ninth, which of the three pitchers would get the most schaeffer? i'll tell you right now, it wouldn't be nelson. take the same game, and switch it up. lets say it gets to the eigth, and sanchez gives up a run - a perfect inning aside from one measley home run over the center field fence. but the mets score two runs in the bottom of the eighth, and in comes wagner. he, too, pitches a perfect inning, save, of course, for a home run over the center field fence. did one home run affect the outcome of the game more than the other? if we were giving out negative schaeffer points, would more go to sanchez, or to wagner? Frayed Knot May 07 2008 05:11 PM ="Triple Dee":3bof42r3]I recall somebody (I can't remember who -- not that I wish to name name's in any case) gave Heilman "4" for the two outs he recorded against Phillies earlier in the season, which struck me as a bit excessive.[/quote:3bof42r3] It's possible that was m.e.t.b.o.t. - he occasionally dips a bit heavy into the 40 weight oil. metsmarathon May 07 2008 06:54 PM nah... the little guy gave a 1.81 in that game. it was someone else. seawolf17 May 07 2008 07:19 PM It was me. I thought Heilman saved that game. *62 May 07 2008 07:55 PM When awarding points to relievers I favor inherited runners stranded - Feliciano K'ing one hitter with the bases loaded full of Ollie's walks is worth half a point every time, minimum ..... if Wagner pitches a clean ninth, I want to see who he faced first and whether or not it was a save situation ..... if everyone has their own preferences, which we obviously do, it should even out. themetfairy May 07 2008 08:01 PM Like *62, I feel that Inherited Runners Stranded is an important consideration. Benjamin Grimm May 07 2008 09:24 PM Let's try this again... SCHAEFER METS PLAYER AND PITCHERS OF THE MONTH, APRIL 2008 The Schaefer Mets Player of the Month for April 2008 is DAVID WRIGHT. This is the sixth time that David has been Player of the Month. (He won three times in 2007, and once each in 2005 and 2006. He's also won the Player of the Year award in each of the past three seasons.) David's productive first half of April allowed him to withstand a challenge from Ryan Church, who also had a strong month. Wright led the Mets in April with 4 home runs, 20 rbi, 47 total bases, a slugging percentage of .511 and an OBP of .409. His 8 doubles in April tied for the club lead with Carlos Beltran, as did his 22 walks. Church led the Mets with a .319 batting average and had 3 home runs and 18 rbi. The Schaefer Mets Pitcher of the Month for April 2008 is JOHAN SANTANA. This is, obviously, Johan's first win. He narrowly missed outpolling David Wright as Player of the Month. (The fact that his first game of the season was played on March 31 was a factor.) Santana was 2-2 with a team-best 3.24 ERA in five April starts. He led the Mets with 31 strikeouts and only walked 6. He also led the club in innings pitched with 33.1. And inaugurating a new category, the Schaefer Mets Relief Pitcher of the Month for April is BILLY WAGNER. Billy had a 0.00 ERA in April in 11 games. In 12 innings, he had allowed 3 hits and 2 walks, while striking out 12. He saved 6 games. Month-to-date totals for April 2008 Through game of April 30, 2008 Rank Name Points 1 David Wright 18.78 2 Ryan Church 17.59 3 Johan Santana 17.31 4 Carlos Beltran 12.90 5 Jos� Reyes 12.21 6 Angel Pagan 11.73 7 John Maine 11.09 8 Nelson Figueroa 10.75 9 Carlos Delgado 9.94 10 Oliver Perez 9.77 11 Mike Pelfrey 7.69 12 Billy Wagner 7.63 13 Aaron Heilman 6.45 14 Jorge Sosa 6.42 15 Luis Castillo 6.03 16 Brian Schneider 6.01 17 Joe Smith 5.42 18 Damion Easley 4.63 19 Raul Casanova 4.44 20 Duaner Sanchez 4.02 21 Pedro Feliciano 3.79 22 Scott Schoeneweis 3.56 23 Endy Chavez 1.86 23 Carlos Muniz 1.86 25 Marlon Anderson 1.13 26 Brady Clark 0.70 27 Pedro Martinez 0.04 28 Gustavo Molina 0.02 Season-to-date totals for 2008 Through game of April 30, 2008 Rank Name Points 1 Johan Santana 21.72 2 David Wright 21.09 3 Ryan Church 17.83 4 Carlos Beltran 13.89 5 Jos� Reyes 12.91 6 Angel Pagan 12.24 7 John Maine 11.09 8 Nelson Figueroa 10.75 9 Carlos Delgado 9.94 10 Oliver Perez 9.77 11 Mike Pelfrey 7.69 12 Billy Wagner 7.63 13 Aaron Heilman 6.75 14 Jorge Sosa 6.65 15 Luis Castillo 6.19 16 Brian Schneider 6.03 17 Joe Smith 5.42 18 Damion Easley 4.63 19 Raul Casanova 4.44 20 Duaner Sanchez 4.02 21 Pedro Feliciano 3.79 22 Scott Schoeneweis 3.66 23 Endy Chavez 1.86 23 Carlos Muniz 1.86 25 Marlon Anderson 1.17 26 Brady Clark 0.70 27 Pedro Martinez 0.04 28 Gustavo Molina 0.02

[Guest AG/DC]

Well, it's worth noting that, just as managers save their best pitcher for the ninth no matter what the score, they oft save their best hitters for the ninth, and they almost never face a bad one.

[Frayed Knot]

="Willets Point":30rr8469]I think the whole "coming in at the top of the 9th to get three outs and a save" thing is something that doesn't deserve a lot of reward much of the time. [/quote:30rr8469] And that's fine, except that at times the guys getting three outs by coming in at the top of the 7th of 8th ARE being rewarded for the same thing we seem to think is routine in the 9th - and I think it's because the expectations factor comes in to play. It would be a bit like rewarding - oh let's say Schneider - more for a 2 HR game than Delgado on the same day (all other things being equal) based on the logic that 'it's what we pay Delgado for' while from Schneider it's unexpected.

metsmarathon May 07 2008 03:30 PM

wagner is screwed by the fact that he usually only performs in wins. his performances are always normalized and derated due to the increased performances by his peers. in wins, there simply isnt enough schaeffer to go around. in losses, which wagner does not participate in often unless they are by his own hand, a lesser performance is often rewarded by greater beering. for nearly every other player, this effect should balance out. for wagner, it cannot. i think, too, that for teh same reason that we would give wagner more points for a one run save than a two run save - that there is less of a safety net - we should award more points for pitching hte ninth inning than the eighth. if, in his next start, nelson figueroa goes out, pitches a perfect first inning, and leaves the game due to an extended rain delay, the game gets to the eighth inning tied 0-0, wherein duaner sanchez throws a perfect inning, followed by the mets plating a run in the bottom of the eighth, and wagner ices it with a perfect ninth, which of the three pitchers would get the most schaeffer? i'll tell you right now, it wouldn't be nelson. take the same game, and switch it up. lets say it gets to the eigth, and sanchez gives up a run - a perfect inning aside from one measley home run over the center field fence. but the mets score two runs in the bottom of the eighth, and in comes wagner. he, too, pitches a perfect inning, save, of course, for a home run over the center field fence. did one home run affect the outcome of the game more than the other? if we were giving out negative schaeffer points, would more go to sanchez, or to wagner?

Frayed Knot May 07 2008 05:11 PM

="Triple Dee":3bof42r3]I recall somebody (I can't remember who -- not that I wish to name name's in any case) gave Heilman "4" for the two outs he recorded against Phillies earlier in the season, which struck me as a bit excessive.[/quote:3bof42r3] It's possible that was m.e.t.b.o.t. - he occasionally dips a bit heavy into the 40 weight oil. metsmarathon May 07 2008 06:54 PM nah... the little guy gave a 1.81 in that game. it was someone else. seawolf17 May 07 2008 07:19 PM It was me. I thought Heilman saved that game. *62 May 07 2008 07:55 PM When awarding points to relievers I favor inherited runners stranded - Feliciano K'ing one hitter with the bases loaded full of Ollie's walks is worth half a point every time, minimum ..... if Wagner pitches a clean ninth, I want to see who he faced first and whether or not it was a save situation ..... if everyone has their own preferences, which we obviously do, it should even out. themetfairy May 07 2008 08:01 PM Like *62, I feel that Inherited Runners Stranded is an important consideration. Benjamin Grimm May 07 2008 09:24 PM Let's try this again... SCHAEFER METS PLAYER AND PITCHERS OF THE MONTH, APRIL 2008 The Schaefer Mets Player of the Month for April 2008 is DAVID WRIGHT. This is the sixth time that David has been Player of the Month. (He won three times in 2007, and once each in 2005 and 2006. He's also won the Player of the Year award in each of the past three seasons.) David's productive first half of April allowed him to withstand a challenge from Ryan Church, who also had a strong month. Wright led the Mets in April with 4 home runs, 20 rbi, 47 total bases, a slugging percentage of .511 and an OBP of .409. His 8 doubles in April tied for the club lead with Carlos Beltran, as did his 22 walks. Church led the Mets with a .319 batting average and had 3 home runs and 18 rbi. The Schaefer Mets Pitcher of the Month for April 2008 is JOHAN SANTANA. This is, obviously, Johan's first win. He narrowly missed outpolling David Wright as Player of the Month. (The fact that his first game of the season was played on March 31 was a factor.) Santana was 2-2 with a team-best 3.24 ERA in five April starts. He led the Mets with 31 strikeouts and only walked 6. He also led the club in innings pitched with 33.1. And inaugurating a new category, the Schaefer Mets Relief Pitcher of the Month for April is BILLY WAGNER. Billy had a 0.00 ERA in April in 11 games. In 12 innings, he had allowed 3 hits and 2 walks, while striking out 12. He saved 6 games. Month-to-date totals for April 2008 Through game of April 30, 2008 Rank Name Points 1 David Wright 18.78 2 Ryan Church 17.59 3 Johan Santana 17.31 4 Carlos Beltran 12.90 5 Jos� Reyes 12.21 6 Angel Pagan 11.73 7 John Maine 11.09 8 Nelson Figueroa 10.75 9 Carlos Delgado 9.94 10 Oliver Perez 9.77 11 Mike Pelfrey 7.69 12 Billy Wagner 7.63 13 Aaron Heilman 6.45 14 Jorge Sosa 6.42 15 Luis Castillo 6.03 16 Brian Schneider 6.01 17 Joe Smith 5.42 18 Damion Easley 4.63 19 Raul Casanova 4.44 20 Duaner Sanchez 4.02 21 Pedro Feliciano 3.79 22 Scott Schoeneweis 3.56 23 Endy Chavez 1.86 23 Carlos Muniz 1.86 25 Marlon Anderson 1.13 26 Brady Clark 0.70 27 Pedro Martinez 0.04 28 Gustavo Molina 0.02 Season-to-date totals for 2008 Through game of April 30, 2008 Rank Name Points 1 Johan Santana 21.72 2 David Wright 21.09 3 Ryan Church 17.83 4 Carlos Beltran 13.89 5 Jos� Reyes 12.91 6 Angel Pagan 12.24 7 John Maine 11.09 8 Nelson Figueroa 10.75 9 Carlos Delgado 9.94 10 Oliver Perez 9.77 11 Mike Pelfrey 7.69 12 Billy Wagner 7.63 13 Aaron Heilman 6.75 14 Jorge Sosa 6.65 15 Luis Castillo 6.19 16 Brian Schneider 6.03 17 Joe Smith 5.42 18 Damion Easley 4.63 19 Raul Casanova 4.44 20 Duaner Sanchez 4.02 21 Pedro Feliciano 3.79 22 Scott Schoeneweis 3.66 23 Endy Chavez 1.86 23 Carlos Muniz 1.86 25 Marlon Anderson 1.17 26 Brady Clark 0.70 27 Pedro Martinez 0.04 28 Gustavo Molina 0.02

[metsmarathon]

wagner is screwed by the fact that he usually only performs in wins. his performances are always normalized and derated due to the increased performances by his peers. in wins, there simply isnt enough schaeffer to go around. in losses, which wagner does not participate in often unless they are by his own hand, a lesser performance is often rewarded by greater beering.

for nearly every other player, this effect should balance out. for wagner, it cannot.

i think, too, that for teh same reason that we would give wagner more points for a one run save than a two run save - that there is less of a safety net - we should award more points for pitching hte ninth inning than the eighth.

if, in his next start, nelson figueroa goes out, pitches a perfect first inning, and leaves the game due to an extended rain delay, the game gets to the eighth inning tied 0-0, wherein duaner sanchez throws a perfect inning, followed by the mets plating a run in the bottom of the eighth, and wagner ices it with a perfect ninth, which of the three pitchers would get the most schaeffer? i'll tell you right now, it wouldn't be nelson.

take the same game, and switch it up. lets say it gets to the eigth, and sanchez gives up a run - a perfect inning aside from one measley home run over the center field fence.

but the mets score two runs in the bottom of the eighth, and in comes wagner. he, too, pitches a perfect inning, save, of course, for a home run over the center field fence.

did one home run affect the outcome of the game more than the other? if we were giving out negative schaeffer points, would more go to sanchez, or to wagner?

[Frayed Knot]

="Triple Dee":3bof42r3]I recall somebody (I can't remember who -- not that I wish to name name's in any case) gave Heilman "4" for the two outs he recorded against Phillies earlier in the season, which struck me as a bit excessive.[/quote:3bof42r3] It's possible that was m.e.t.b.o.t. - he occasionally dips a bit heavy into the 40 weight oil.

metsmarathon May 07 2008 06:54 PM

nah... the little guy gave a 1.81 in that game. it was someone else.

seawolf17 May 07 2008 07:19 PM

It was me. I thought Heilman saved that game.

*62 May 07 2008 07:55 PM

When awarding points to relievers I favor inherited runners stranded - Feliciano K'ing one hitter with the bases loaded full of Ollie's walks is worth half a point every time, minimum ..... if Wagner pitches a clean ninth, I want to see who he faced first and whether or not it was a save situation ..... if everyone has their own preferences, which we obviously do, it should even out.

themetfairy May 07 2008 08:01 PM

Like *62, I feel that Inherited Runners Stranded is an important consideration.

Benjamin Grimm May 07 2008 09:24 PM

Let's try this again... SCHAEFER METS PLAYER AND PITCHERS OF THE MONTH, APRIL 2008 The Schaefer Mets Player of the Month for April 2008 is DAVID WRIGHT. This is the sixth time that David has been Player of the Month. (He won three times in 2007, and once each in 2005 and 2006. He's also won the Player of the Year award in each of the past three seasons.) David's productive first half of April allowed him to withstand a challenge from Ryan Church, who also had a strong month. Wright led the Mets in April with 4 home runs, 20 rbi, 47 total bases, a slugging percentage of .511 and an OBP of .409. His 8 doubles in April tied for the club lead with Carlos Beltran, as did his 22 walks. Church led the Mets with a .319 batting average and had 3 home runs and 18 rbi. The Schaefer Mets Pitcher of the Month for April 2008 is JOHAN SANTANA. This is, obviously, Johan's first win. He narrowly missed outpolling David Wright as Player of the Month. (The fact that his first game of the season was played on March 31 was a factor.) Santana was 2-2 with a team-best 3.24 ERA in five April starts. He led the Mets with 31 strikeouts and only walked 6. He also led the club in innings pitched with 33.1. And inaugurating a new category, the Schaefer Mets Relief Pitcher of the Month for April is BILLY WAGNER. Billy had a 0.00 ERA in April in 11 games. In 12 innings, he had allowed 3 hits and 2 walks, while striking out 12. He saved 6 games. Month-to-date totals for April 2008 Through game of April 30, 2008 Rank Name Points 1 David Wright 18.78 2 Ryan Church 17.59 3 Johan Santana 17.31 4 Carlos Beltran 12.90 5 Jos� Reyes 12.21 6 Angel Pagan 11.73 7 John Maine 11.09 8 Nelson Figueroa 10.75 9 Carlos Delgado 9.94 10 Oliver Perez 9.77 11 Mike Pelfrey 7.69 12 Billy Wagner 7.63 13 Aaron Heilman 6.45 14 Jorge Sosa 6.42 15 Luis Castillo 6.03 16 Brian Schneider 6.01 17 Joe Smith 5.42 18 Damion Easley 4.63 19 Raul Casanova 4.44 20 Duaner Sanchez 4.02 21 Pedro Feliciano 3.79 22 Scott Schoeneweis 3.56 23 Endy Chavez 1.86 23 Carlos Muniz 1.86 25 Marlon Anderson 1.13 26 Brady Clark 0.70 27 Pedro Martinez 0.04 28 Gustavo Molina 0.02 Season-to-date totals for 2008 Through game of April 30, 2008 Rank Name Points 1 Johan Santana 21.72 2 David Wright 21.09 3 Ryan Church 17.83 4 Carlos Beltran 13.89 5 Jos� Reyes 12.91 6 Angel Pagan 12.24 7 John Maine 11.09 8 Nelson Figueroa 10.75 9 Carlos Delgado 9.94 10 Oliver Perez 9.77 11 Mike Pelfrey 7.69 12 Billy Wagner 7.63 13 Aaron Heilman 6.75 14 Jorge Sosa 6.65 15 Luis Castillo 6.19 16 Brian Schneider 6.03 17 Joe Smith 5.42 18 Damion Easley 4.63 19 Raul Casanova 4.44 20 Duaner Sanchez 4.02 21 Pedro Feliciano 3.79 22 Scott Schoeneweis 3.66 23 Endy Chavez 1.86 23 Carlos Muniz 1.86 25 Marlon Anderson 1.17 26 Brady Clark 0.70 27 Pedro Martinez 0.04 28 Gustavo Molina 0.02

[metsmarathon]

nah... the little guy gave a 1.81 in that game. it was someone else.

[seawolf17]

It was me. I thought Heilman saved that game.

[Guest *62]

When awarding points to relievers I favor inherited runners stranded - Feliciano K'ing one hitter with the bases loaded full of Ollie's walks is worth half a point every time, minimum ..... if Wagner pitches a clean ninth, I want to see who he faced first and whether or not it was a save situation ..... if everyone has their own preferences, which we obviously do, it should even out.

[Guest themetfairy]

Like *62, I feel that Inherited Runners Stranded is an important consideration.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Let's try this again...



SCHAEFER METS PLAYER AND PITCHERS OF THE MONTH, APRIL 2008

The Schaefer Mets Player of the Month for April 2008 is DAVID WRIGHT. This is the sixth time that David has been Player of the Month. (He won three times in 2007, and once each in 2005 and 2006. He's also won the Player of the Year award in each of the past three seasons.) David's productive first half of April allowed him to withstand a challenge from Ryan Church, who also had a strong month. Wright led the Mets in April with 4 home runs, 20 rbi, 47 total bases, a slugging percentage of .511 and an OBP of .409. His 8 doubles in April tied for the club lead with Carlos Beltran, as did his 22 walks. Church led the Mets with a .319 batting average and had 3 home runs and 18 rbi.

The Schaefer Mets Pitcher of the Month for April 2008 is JOHAN SANTANA. This is, obviously, Johan's first win. He narrowly missed outpolling David Wright as Player of the Month. (The fact that his first game of the season was played on March 31 was a factor.) Santana was 2-2 with a team-best 3.24 ERA in five April starts. He led the Mets with 31 strikeouts and only walked 6. He also led the club in innings pitched with 33.1.

And inaugurating a new category, the Schaefer Mets Relief Pitcher of the Month for April is BILLY WAGNER. Billy had a 0.00 ERA in April in 11 games. In 12 innings, he had allowed 3 hits and 2 walks, while striking out 12. He saved 6 games.

Month-to-date totals for April 2008
Through game of April 30, 2008

Rank	Name	Points
1	David Wright	18.78
2	Ryan Church	17.59
3	Johan Santana	17.31
4	Carlos Beltran	12.90
5	Jos� Reyes	12.21
6	Angel Pagan	11.73
7	John Maine	11.09
8	Nelson Figueroa	10.75
9	Carlos Delgado	9.94
10	Oliver Perez	9.77
11	Mike Pelfrey	7.69
12	Billy Wagner	7.63
13	Aaron Heilman	6.45
14	Jorge Sosa	6.42
15	Luis Castillo	6.03
16	Brian Schneider	6.01
17	Joe Smith	5.42
18	Damion Easley	4.63
19	Raul Casanova	4.44
20	Duaner Sanchez	4.02
21	Pedro Feliciano	3.79
22	Scott Schoeneweis	3.56
23	Endy Chavez	1.86
23	Carlos Muniz	1.86
25	Marlon Anderson	1.13
26	Brady Clark	0.70
27	Pedro Martinez	0.04
28	Gustavo Molina	0.02

Season-to-date totals for 2008
Through game of April 30, 2008

Rank	Name	Points
1	Johan Santana	21.72
2	David Wright	21.09
3	Ryan Church	17.83
4	Carlos Beltran	13.89
5	Jos� Reyes	12.91
6	Angel Pagan	12.24
7	John Maine	11.09
8	Nelson Figueroa	10.75
9	Carlos Delgado	9.94
10	Oliver Perez	9.77
11	Mike Pelfrey	7.69
12	Billy Wagner	7.63
13	Aaron Heilman	6.75
14	Jorge Sosa	6.65
15	Luis Castillo	6.19
16	Brian Schneider	6.03
17	Joe Smith	5.42
18	Damion Easley	4.63
19	Raul Casanova	4.44
20	Duaner Sanchez	4.02
21	Pedro Feliciano	3.79
22	Scott Schoeneweis	3.66
23	Endy Chavez	1.86
23	Carlos Muniz	1.86
25	Marlon Anderson	1.17
26	Brady Clark	0.70
27	Pedro Martinez	0.04
28	Gustavo Molina	0.02