ESPN Baseball Tonight

[Fman99]

God do I loathe Steve Phillips' commentary and general smugness. He's a big dumb ****.

Yes, we get it. Brian Bannister would look good in the rotation right now. That trade was a year and a half ago. Let's move on, shall we?

I wish every time he did this someone would remind him that he traded Izzy and McMichael for Billy Fucking Taylor or Melvin Mora for Mike Fucking Bordick.

There, I feel better now.

[metirish]

Unfortuantly it's not just Phillips or ESPN , last night after the game SNY had some baseball "experts" on( no idea who but nearly anyone that has a show or does updates on the FAN gets to be on SNY now) and one called it without doubt the worst trade ever by Minaya yyybbb...

[soupcan]

Phillips IS a huge bag of douche.

How about that Kazmir trade - can we revisit that now that he's having elbow issues?

[Guest AG/DC]

Maybe we can get a few more innings out of Bartolome Fortunato to make up some ground on that one.

[Benjamin Grimm]

soupcan wrote: Phillips IS a huge bag of douche. How about that Kazmir trade - can we revisit that now that he's having elbow issues?

That was a Jim Duquette trade, wasn't it?

[soupcan]

Not blaming that on Phillips just making a point about these blowhards in general.

[Guest Triple Dee]

AG/DC wrote: Maybe we can get a few more innings out of Bartolome Fortunato to make up some ground on that one.

And we got Joselo Diaz back!

[metsmarathon]

i don't mind phillips so much. not sure why, actually, but i don't. i disagree with him a lot and all, but he doesn't grate me too much. very weird...

hey, are there any plans whatsoever for burgos to pitch this year?

[Gwreck]

metsmarathon wrote: hey, are there any plans whatsoever for burgos to pitch this year?

Maybe in August/September. He's recovering from TJ surgery, I believe.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I don't think Phillips is anywhere near the worst TV Jock out there. He's capable of insight at times too. He was also maybe not the worst GM ever.

[Centerfield]

Phillips doesn't bother me. But if he bothers you, send him an email reminding him that the Mets are still paying Bobby Bonilla.

[Benjamin Grimm]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: He's capable of insight at times too. He was also maybe not the worst GM ever.

That 1999 team he put together was pretty darn good.

[Guest Triple Dee]

Phillips drafted significantly better than Omar has up until this point.

[Gwreck]

Little premature to judge that, no?

[Guest AG/DC]

Triple Dee wrote: Phillips drafted significantly better than Omar has up until this point.

Yeah, the jury is probably still be out on that. To look at it, Phillips draft status rests largely on the selection of Wright.

GM	Year	Pos.	Round 1	Sandwich	Round 2	Sandwich	Round 3	Best	Baseball Cube Draft Score Rank	Other Big Leaguers (Unsigned Guys in Italics)
McIllvaine	1997	6	Geoff Goetz	--	Tyler Walker	--	Cesar Crespo	Jason Phillips (17)	16	Garrett Atkins (10), Eric Cammack, Jason Roach, Brandon Lyon (37), Randy Kiesler (40), David DeJesus (43), Mike Tonis (52)
Phillips	1998	2	Jason Tyner	--	Pat Strange	--	Jason Saenz	Ty Wigginton (17)	2*	Craig Brazell (5), Ryan Buddle (12), Jiame Cerda (23), Earl Snyder (36)
Phillips	1999	22	--	--	Neal Musser	Jake Joseph	Jeremy Griffiths	Mike Jacobs (38)	28	Angel Pagan (4), Prentice Redman (10)
Phillips	2000	16	Billy Traber	Bob Keppel	Matt Peterson	--	Josh Reynolds	Traber	28	Chris Basak (6), Jeff Duncan (7)
Phillips	2001	18	Aaron Heilman	David Wright	Alhaji Turay	Corey Ragsdale	Lenny Dinardo	Wright	9	Danny Garcia (5), Joe Hietpas (16)
Phillips	2002	15	Scott Kazmir	--	--	--	--	Kazmir	22	Matt Lindstrom (10)
Phillips	2003	12	Lastings Milledge	--	--	--	--	Brian Bannister (7)	20	Carlos Muniz (13)
Duquette	2004	3	Phil Humber	--	Matt Durkin	--	Gaby Hernandez	Humber	15	None
Minaya	2005	9	Mike Pelfrey	--	--	--	--	Pelfrey	5	None
Minaya	2006	18	--	--	--	Kevin Mulvey	Joe Smith	Smith	17	None
Minaya	2007	12	--	Eddie Kunz and Nathan Vineyard	Scott Moviel	Brant Rustich	Eric Niesen	Unknown	16	None

* This ranking system is banjaxed, and I'm honestly unsure if a ranking of 30 is best or a ranking of 1. This year, due to an apparent database error, they are crediting the Mets with picking a 52-year-old Tom Paciorek in round 43 this year. Maybe it was his son, but Paciorek retired after 1987.

Edited April 3, 2008 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

[MFS62}The choice of Corey Ragsdale in the 2nd round negates all the other
successes of that 2001 draft and renders it a wash at best[/MFS62]

[Benjamin Grimm]

Baseball Cube gets players mixed up sometimes.

Last time I was there, they had some ancient 80-year-old catcher in the Mets farm system in place of John Gibbons at every one of Gibbons' stops.

[Guest AG/DC]

Check out all the unsigned late-round gold from McIllvaine's last draft. I wonder if Phillis (1) had a hand in selecting those guys, or (2) had a hand in not signing those guys.

[Guest AG/DC]

Also know Brian Cole was chosen in round 18 of the 1998 draft. Make of that what you will.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Difficult to compare GMs in recent Met because each year it was if they operated under different set of rules and permissions. Omar seems to be agitating to break free of slot-drafting; I'd be surprised if that doesn't make him a better drafter in the eyes of some. Compare that to the pursestrings pulled tight on Duke in 2004. His second-round guy, Durkin, was released this spring.

You could also argue that Phillips became a worse drafter after Omar moved on to Montreal -- the Mets never adequately replaced him, acknowledging as much when they saddled Duke with the silver-haired mavens of doom.

[Fman99]

I know he drafted Wright... he also tried, unsuccessfully, to trade him to Toronto for Jose Cruz Jr. at one point, IIRC.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Well, that's a different subject.

It's one thing to know which young players are worth drafting. And then another to know which of them are worth keeping. Some GM's may just draft in order to get trade fodder.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

Fman99 wrote: I know he drafted Wright... he also tried, unsuccessfully, to trade him to Toronto for Jose Cruz Jr. at one point, IIRC.

http://torontosun.com/Sports/Columnists/Elliott_Bob/2006/07/16/1686900.html

[Guest Triple Dee]

AG/DC wrote: ="Triple Dee"]Phillips drafted significantly better than Omar has up until this point. Yeah, the jury is probably still be out on that. To look at it, Phillips draft status rests largely on the selection of Wright.

If you're judging Phillips purely on drafting alone, you also have to consider Kazmir, Milledge and Heilman all of whom turned out to be above-average big leaguers. He also signed Jose Reyes which is arguably analogous to drafting him.

However, I'm prepared to cut Omar some slack because the organization (stupidly) refused to pay over the slot for drafted players in recent years, and that cannot be considered his fault.

[metirish]

We could have had Jose Cruz Jr.

I'm sure every GM could regale us with stories of how they offered some single A player in a trade and got turned down or how they were offered some single A kid that they turned down and he turned out to be an All-Star....

[Guest AG/DC]

Triple Dee wrote: ="AG/DC"] Triple Dee wrote: Phillips drafted significantly better than Omar has up until this point. Yeah, the jury is probably still be out on that. To look at it, Phillips draft status rests largely on the selection of Wright. If you're judging Phillips purely on drafting alone, you also have to consider Kazmir, Milledge and Heilman all of whom turned out to be above-average big leaguers.

They're all on that table.

And I'm not judging Phillips on drafting alone, I'm just responding to your assertion.

[Guest Triple Dee]

AG/DC wrote: ="Triple Dee"] AG/DC wrote: ="Triple Dee"]Phillips drafted significantly better than Omar has up until this point. Yeah, the jury is probably still be out on that. To look at it, Phillips draft status rests largely on the selection of Wright. If you're judging Phillips purely on drafting alone, you also have to consider Kazmir, Milledge and Heilman all of whom turned out to be above-average big leaguers. They're all on that table. And I'm not judging Phillips on drafting alone, I'm just responding to your assertion.

The way it came across, it sounded like you were reducing judgment of Phillips' drafting legacy to David Wright.

[Guest AG/DC]

No, sorry, I only meant to say that he's the difference maker. Certainly Heilman and Kazmir have shown tangible positive big-league value, but that's something of a wash against Phillips netting very little from 1998-2000, Minaya having a relative paucity of early-round picks, and Minaya's draftees being largely still in development. You may want to also consider that Minaya has been drafting under an apparent agreeement by the Mets to keep bonuses pinned to draft slots. I don't know whether or not the Mets were being such good little anti-trusting citizens during Phillips' era.

The demerit on Minaya so far is the scarce contributions of Mike Pelfrey, especially coming out of what's shaping out as a gorgeous draft class of 2005. But if we're contrasting with Phillips, we've also got to review the selections of Tyner, Travers, and Keppel.

And I don't really want to do that.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Guest

[Guest Triple Dee]

AG/DC wrote: You may want to also consider that Minaya has been drafting under an apparent agreeement by the Mets to keep bonuses pinned to draft slots. I don't know whether or not the Mets were being such good little anti-trusting citizens during Phillips' era.

During the Phillips era, Kazmir and Milledge were paid over the slot, and if memory serves correctly, so was Heilman. I'm not sure about DW5. I seem to recall Phillips once saying that Wilpon had a veto over such matters.

But by the same token Pelfrey and Humber were both paid over the slot during the Omar era. However, it's a practise they've refrained from in recent years. At least, all this will change from this year's draft.

[Guest AG/DC]

Thaks for the background.

Let's not get away, though, from sticking Humber with Jim Duquette.