For Real?

[Guest sharpie]

Is there a Mrs. Church?

[HahnSolo]

Ehhh, Mrs. Schneider would be a fourth outfielder on a really good Wifey Watch team.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Shawn Green, on learning of his replacement:

"I may be going to Hell, but Ryan Church is going to the Mets."

[Benjamin Grimm]

Washington Post in 2005 wrote: The Washington Nationals suspended a volunteer chaplain and distributed an apology from outfielder Ryan Church yesterday, two days after Church was quoted in a front-page Post article as suggesting that Jews are headed for eternal damnation.

I have a brother-in-law who said the same thing about Catholics. (Fortunately, for family harmony, he didn't say it in my presence. I don't believe in heaven or hell, but I know hate when I see it.)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

sharpie wrote: Is there a Mrs. Church?

Yes. I'm sending out an APB for photos of Tina Church.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Has Omar begun speaking yet?

[Guest iramets]

If you mean, in semi-coherent street English, the answer is a big "No."

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

There must be another shoe dropping at some point that would make this deal make sense.

Because right now, it doesn't.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I have YES on my TV and Omar is about to come on to talk to Mike and Chris after the commercial break.

[Guest iramets]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: There must be another shoe dropping at some point that would make this deal make sense. Because right now, it doesn't.

You know, I heard an awful lot of this wishful thinking with Kazmir-for Zambrano. "It's sooooo dumb, it MUST be part of something awully smart. It's just gotta be..."

[seawolf17]

Omar must have been blinded by Church's Burrelllike line against the Mets last year: 13-41, 5 2B, 4 HR, 12 RBI, far and away his best numbers against any team last year. He was 10 for 25 at Shea.

[Valadius]

Omar at the very least was familiar with both of them by virtue of his stint with the Expos.

Hopefully this means that we hold on tighter to Gomez and Martinez.

But Omar probably got too desperate to trade Milledge.

[HahnSolo]

Per Omar:
Ryan Church, your starting right fielder.

[willpie]

Huh. Maybe I am as irrationally optimistic as my wife says, but I don't hate (or even especially dislike) the trade.
It's not what I had in mind for Milledge, but in the absence of better offers, they essentially turned Mota (ugh) and Milledge into Church (meh) and an honest-to-god platoon at catcher.
Hell, they had me at "Mota's gone."
Now, there had better be some pitching on the way from somewhere (or else they're really in for it; I may even de-lurk for a real bitch-fest! That'll show 'em!), but I think Milledge's potential was overstated, he got hurt every season, and he had a real gift for alienating teammates and employers alike. I'll miss the kid, but I don't feel like a chunk of the sky just hit me in the head.

[soupcan]

Omar's on now.

Geez he's hard to listen to.

Wants Church to play everyday...

Didn't want LoDuca back solely for defensive reasons (yeah, uh-huh)...

Torrealba's agent and the Mets agreed not to comment on why the Yorvit deal fell through. Not concerned now that Yorvit's agent is making noise about legal action ("Dese thins happen in my biznezz, youknowhateyemzayin...?")

[Guest Edgy DC]

Who do you think overstated Milledge's potential?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Mota's departure had nothing to do with this trade.

[Valadius]

Oh good lord.

Way to aim low, Omar. Ryan Church as the starting right fielder? How are you going to replace Lo Duca's offense?

I'm hoping this is some kind of David Justice flip.

[soupcan]

"Lasting's value didn't decrease, Church and Schneider are established productive MLers. Good trade for both sides, blah, blah, blah, blah....."

[Centerfield]

The more I think about it, the less sense this makes. Schneider stinks. He's not any better than Estrada, who the Mets already had, so trading for him is no benefit at all. Which essentially makes this Milledge for Church. If Milledge were given the starting job, he would most likely put up at least Church's numbers. In fact, it would probably be a disappointment if he only produced at that level.

I can understand trading away a player with upside for known entity, but when that known is mediocre, it makes no sense at all.

[nymr83]

from the other thred:

]MINAYA ON WFAN. (i'm paraphrasing here and there but not distorting the content) Mike: what is church's role? Minaya: everyday player. (cites counting stats) Mad dog: he only did that once Minaya:exciting to give him the chance Minaya:i think those numbers could improve, remember this was in a big ballpark in washington minaya: good numbers, (admits difference in age) but says church will produce better numbers with the opportunity to drive in runs Mike: why make mota deal if you're gonna do this? Minaya: fair to say it was a salary dump, gave us an option going forward Mike: why no loduca, any worries about torrealba lawsuit against you which was rumored? Minaya: no worries about that, we agreed with agent not to discuss the reason why it didnt work out. Dog: anything to do with the mitchell report? Minaya: no. Mike: loduca? Minaya: its about how we are building our team going forward...yadayada...about speed, defense, loduca did a good job, loduca better offensively than schnieder but schneider's defense is what we need. had nothing to do with loduca's off the field conduct. Minaya: we hadda change things up with how the season ended last year Minaya: the way the team is setup now i'm a big believer in being strong (defensively) up the middle Dog: get a big pitcher in trade? do you have enough prospects? Minaya: there are pitchers being shopped i cant named them, we're talking, clubs have interest in our players. pitchers like defense so they'll want to come here Mike: any problem with wagner's comments Minaya: talked to him, told him to watch what he says, says wagner was then pleased with omar's explanations Dog: do yank moves put pressure on you? Minaya: no. Minaya: we should have won more games last yeat, trade "changes things up some." "i like our team the way it is right now" only difference is we lost glavine and added pedro martinez (for a full year- haha) and church, we will hopefully work in the winter meetings, i do believe there'll be other pieces of this team. Mike: reyes untouchable? Minaya: reyes part of nucleus/core, one of best young players in game, not trading reyes. Dog: (question about milledge's stock) Minaya: hes been considered a big prospect, we have other big prospects, a couple of years ago if you told me we'd make this trade i'd be happy to get an outfielder who will produce and who we control for 4 years. "tough deal for me to make" "good baseball trade for both sides" -end interview-

[DocTee]

the only way this gets worse is if the other shoe reduces the catching log jam by dealing Castro and not Estrada/Schneider

[Guest iramets]

Centerfield wrote: I can understand trading away a player with upside for known entity, but when that known is mediocre, it makes no sense at all.

Yes. Milledge has limitless upside. He could be Hank Aaron, he could be Hank Allen, but you know that Ryan Church is Ryan Church, and it's hard to see a championship team that has him as its everyday RFer.

Of course, we could be believing hype in all our man-love for Milledge, but we did see him out on the field, showing flashes of brilliance, a quick bat, flashes of power. It ain't all hype, and if other GMs were saying that it was, well, you need to hang on to him. If you gave him Church's at bats last year, don't you think he'd have matched 15 HRs and a .270 BA?

[willpie]

="Benjamin Grimm"]Mota's departure had nothing to do with this trade.

Well, it had at least a little to do with it. The Mota/Estrada trade was 1 part salary dump, 1 part Mota dump, and 1 part acquisition of a question mark of a defensive liability catcher who could be the other part of your two-headed catching monster in a pinch, but could just as easily be non-tendered if a better deal came along.
A better deal came along. Not a full-on good deal (and, indeed, taking a longer look at Milledge's stats now that I'm home from work, I feel less good about this, but still mostly in the realm of alright-to-on the fence. Assuming there's still a deal for pitching in the works.)
So, sure, Mota wasn't part of this trade, but there have been many, many less related transactions than this one and the Mota trade.

[willpie]

Yeah, actually, I'm starting to hate this.
Thanks for ruining my rosy outlook.

[seawolf17]

Green Schneider/Estrada
plus we no longer have Milledge.

I don't see how this improves the team at all.

[HahnSolo]

Credit to a caller on FAN who pointed out that one reason the Nats could let Schneider go is that they had Flores in their system, the same Flores they claimed from the Mets last year. So you could look at it like Milledge and Flores for Schneider & Church, which makes it look even worse.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Nah, there's no logical point in framing that way, unless you love salt in your wound.

[Guest iramets]

Anyone with a link the 40 man roster a year ago, when the Mets made Jesus Flores avalable to the Nats? I'd be curious to see some of the illustrious names the Mets felt were more valuable properties at the time than their #1 catching prospect (according to Baseball America).

[bmfc1]

I was stunned to read that Omar thinks that Church will be in the everyday RF. He wasn't good enough to start on the lousy Nationals, so how can he start on a team that wants to win the WS next season?

The excellent http://www.mlbfleecefactor.com agrees--Omar got fleeced!

"In essence, the Mets traded away a young, cheap and promising major trading chip for a 31-year old, light-hitting catcher (their third catcher technically, meaning Johnny Estrada will be non-tendered next month), and a 29-year old OF with minimal upside. Now I know Milledge has had his run-ins with management, but the New York Mets could have done better then Church/Schneider, right?

On SNY this evening, Ken Rosenthal appeared as a guest. He said rival baseball executives were shocked at this deal, primarily because the Mets dealt Milledge away without getting ANY pitching in return. You would think they would have pushed harder for Jon Rauch, Chad Cordero, or even Luis Ayala to help their bullpen.

Omar baffles us all yet again. Schneider is a fine defensive catcher, and Church is a useful player as well, but is he an everyday rightfielder on a competing team? I don�t think so. And it seems that espn.com writer Keith Law agrees that the Nationals won out on this deal (Insider article). It was a pretty cold in NY today� maybe Omar felt like purchasing himself a warm FLEECE?!

Between the Torrealba situation, purchasing Brian Stokes from Tampa Bay, letting Lo Duca walk without even trying to re-sign him (a fan favorite in NY), giving Luis Castillo a multi-year deal, and now trading Milledge for two �decent� players (neither pitchers), Omar Minaya is in the midst of a horrific off-season. This, of course, coming after a horrific collapse. The Mets do not have the chips to deal for a Johan Santana, Danny Haren, Jake Peavy, Erik Bedard, or even a Joe Blanton for that matter (it would appear). If Minaya decides to sign Livan Hernandez at next week�s winter meetings, he deserves a stern talking to from Mets� management at the very least. Bad job, Omar. WAKE UP!"