What's on 2nd? ... I don't know (3rd base)

[Frayed Knot]

FOX's Ken Rosenthal drops a line about the Mets looking into the mascot-looking David Eckstein with the thought about moving him over to 2nd base.

A FA who is coming off making $4.5mil in the final year of a 3 year/$10.5mil deal, Eckstein's offense is essentially the same as Luis Castillo's:
DE (2005-2007): 1,564 ABs; .297/.345/.375; 13 HRs
LC (2005-2007): 1,570 ABs; .295/.369/.368' 8 HRs

The concern about his defense was that he didn't have the arm for SS where he's been his whole career. Presumably that wouldn't be a problem at 2nd although you wonder if he has the quick release you'd like for turning DPs. He always seemed to have an almost Pennington-like slow release which took almost max effort just to get the ball across the diamond.

He'll turn 33 in January, some 8 months older than Castillo.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Dreckstein. Nein!

[Guest Edgy DC]

Eckstein could join Aaron Heilman in our subculture of Catholic players with Judeophonic names.

I don't see too many other things to get excited about.

[metirish]

I'd pass, I'm sure his agent would try to sell him as a player that gives his all every night, winning attitude and all that good stuff.

[seawolf17]

No.

[soupcan]

"I've got a Gold Glove in my closet..."

[Guest Iubitul]

Sign ARod, and move Wright or Reyes to second.

(no, I'm not serious)

[HahnSolo]

Eckstein doesn't limp every time he runs to first, however.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Iubitul wrote: Sign ARod, and move Wright or Reyes to second. (no, I'm not serious)

Sign Rodriguez, put him at first base, and deal Delgado.

Of course, that wouldn't solve second base at all.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, you'd be dealing Delgado for a keystoner, silly.

[Vic Sage]

Deal for Barfield!
His stock is down, but he's young and talented.
Buy low for a change.
Do it. Do it now.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think the store is closed until after the World Series.

[Guest vtmet]

Vic Sage wrote: Deal for Barfield! His stock is down, but he's young and talented. Buy low for a change. Do it. Do it now.

I was thinking the same thing...Barfield lost his starting 2B job in Cleveland to Cabrera...Barfield is a young RH hitting 2B with some talent...Gotay is a 2B that shows promise from the left side...could make a good young 2B plattoon and if one really shines could claim the job (competition between young players fighting for playing time isn't always a bad thing)...

[Guest Mendoza Line]

Vic Sage wrote: Deal for Barfield! His stock is down, but he's young and talented. Buy low for a change. Do it. Do it now.

I was talking to an Indians fan about Barfield, who forgot how to hit sometime in mid-season. The Indians main need is corner OF, so Barfield would probably cost us Gomez.

I don't know if I'd trade Gomez for someone who isn't close to a guaranteed improvement over Gotay at 2B. If we really can buy low (where low = some corner OF who isn't Milledge, Gomez, or Endy), a Gotay/Barfield platoon wouldn't be a bad option.

[Guest vtmet]

Mendoza Line wrote: ="Vic Sage"]Deal for Barfield! His stock is down, but he's young and talented. Buy low for a change. Do it. Do it now. I was talking to an Indians fan about Barfield, who forgot how to hit sometime in mid-season. The Indians main need is corner OF, so Barfield would probably cost us Gomez. I don't know if I'd trade Gomez for someone who isn't close to a guaranteed improvement over Gotay at 2B. If we really can buy low (where low = some corner OF who isn't Milledge, Gomez, or Endy), a Gotay/Barfield platoon wouldn't be a bad option.

Ambres, Anderson Hernandez and Ben Johnson for Barfield...and if they ask nicely, how about throwing in Ricky Ledee...

[bmfc1]

Too late--the Mets released Ledee today, according to [u:dc63077f49]Baseball America[/u:dc63077f49]. (I'm sure that Omar is getting ready to re-sign him next summer).
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=620

[nymr83]

]Mets looking into...[name] with the thought about moving him over to [position he doesn't play.]

i don't like this.

[Guest vtmet]

Nymr83 wrote: ]Mets looking into...[name] with the thought about moving him over to [position he doesn't play.] i don't like this.

I could be wrong on this one, but...I believe that Eckstein was originally a 2nd baseman throughout his minor league career in the Red Sox organization...and then when acquired by the Angels was moved to shortstop because the Angels had Adam Kennedy as a 2nd baseman but not much at SS...So, he became a shortstop in the same manner that Doug Flynn and Joe McEwing became shortstops (due to a need, not due being natural shortstops...which also explains why he has the arm of a 2nd baseman and takes so long to unload a throw from shortstop because he has to put everything that he has into the throw)...one nice thing about Eckstein would be that Reyes would actually have someone that could sub for him on occasions since Eckstein has both played shortstop and has batted leadoff...

[metsmarathon]

Nymr83 wrote: ]Mets looking into...[name] with the thought about moving him over to [position he doesn't play.] i don't like this.

jose valentin

[Guest vtmet]

metsmarathon wrote: ="Nymr83"] ]Mets looking into...[name] with the thought about moving him over to [position he doesn't play.] i don't like this. jose valentin

and Jose Valentin was a much better 2nd baseman than he ever was at SS or 3B...goes to show that it doesn't take as much to excell at 2B as it does to excell at SS or even 3B...and at the same token, David Wright for all his flaws is a much better 3B than Valentin ever was, but I don't know how many fans state as a FACT that there is no way that David Wright could handle a transition to 2nd base...

[Valadius]

Leave David at third. He can play the position, and that's where he can stand out in this league.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think the evidence shows that Jose Valentin was an excellent shortstop before he got hurt --- as recently as 2004. He wasn't signed for the purpose of moving him fulltime to second. He was signed to give him andopportunity to reclaim his career as a poorly paid utility player after a wretched injury-wrecked 2005. Second base was just where things opened up, but two guys had to fail there first. Three, if you count Bret Boone.

Guys acquired as starters with the express purpose of moving them to a different position as a starter are few. There's a handful of guys moving from one outfield position to another --- Roger Cede�o and Vince Coleman jump to mind. It's not very informative, and the conclusions you'd draw would be bad. More illustrative would be guys like Todd Zeile, Richie Hebner, and Jim Fregosi.

None of those situaitons are remembered fondly, though, in most cases, he did more or less as well as you had a right to expect. In most cases as well, the player has some experience at the position he's moving to.

Edited October 10, 2007 by Guest

[Vic Sage]

with eckstein's "offense" (and i use the term loosely), he'd have to be an established gold-glove caliber 2bman to seriously consider signing him.

[Vic Sage]

and as for Barfield, he's not even 25 yet, with 2 major league seasons under his belt. Before coming up with SD, he rose thru their minor league system with impressive power/speed numbers and real run production at every level. The kid took a step back last season, but his upside is very real.

That Cleveland has another strong young player at that position is to the advantage of anyone who wants to "buy low" on Barfield.

I don't buy the notion at ALL that Gomez is so much a better prospect. I'd trade him for Barfield even up. So far, Gomez is all potential and no production (except for SBs), even on the minor league level. He's fast, with a great glove, but he looks overmatched at the plate, has little power, and didn't do anything to match barfield's minor league numbers. Plus speedy outfielders are more plentiful than 2bmen with power and speed. Barfield drove in over 120 runs a few years ago!

put it this way, best case scenario:

Barfield = Craig Biggio
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=885

Gomez = Devon White
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=5537
i do this deal in a heartbeat.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Guest

[metsmarathon]

yup.

[smg58]

Like the writer said, he's equivalent to Castillo, so for starters he'd have to be asking for less money.

Everybody always knocks Eckstein. I remember some ESPN writer a couple of years ago listing the Cardinals' signing of Eckstein as one of the worst moves of the offseason. And if he doesn't think being the World Series MVP counts for anything, he'll probably say he was right.

I think Wright could handle moving to 2B. He has the speed, and his arm would be less of an issue. To seriously consider moving Wright, though, would require A-Rod taking the discount to wear the orange and blue that he says he would have done seven years ago, or Mike Lowell taking a comparable deal to what Eckstein or Castillo would get.

Guys like Barfield or Chris Burke are worth looking at, but their stock value has to be well below that of Gomez at this point. I can't justify demanding value for a guy who played his way out of the lineup. The Indians could use pitching, too, and I might consider Pelfrey or Humber and somebody of lesser value for Barfield and Kelly Shoppach.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Guest

[Guest Edgy DC]

Part of the thing about Gomez is that he's part of the new regime of pushing prospects faster than previously, not allowing them to establish sustained quality performance at any level. He's been younger than the mean at every level he's played. Even before Minaya took over, the best hitters have been coming down the Mets pipeline too rapidly to put up a dominant season at any level. That includes Milledge, Reyes, and Wright too until his last half season before jumping.

Not a lot of minor league dominance there, but, like Gomez, they were making somebody's prospect list, not just the internal one.

Which isn't saying that I'm CAHNfident that Gomez is going to pan out. I'm not. Though I think he's got more power in that body than he's put up thus far.

[metsmarathon]

are there terribly many players who make the switch, successfully or not, from third base to second base?

my concern for dwright is not his arm or glove, but his ability to make the pivot, especially standing in there to take the hit on a close play against an aggressive runner. i don't think that learning curve is trivial.

[metsmarathon]

why are we assuming that arod would be the better third baseman, forcing wright to move to either first or second?

[Vic Sage]

i agree that Gomez has talent. And his build definitely indicates more power in the future. But he's still just potential, while Barfield has produced, including a solid rookie year in the majors (unlike Burke, who has yet to demonstrate he can hit major league pitching).

as for Barfield/Shoppach, i already made that proposal.: Gomez/Humber

With regard to Eckstein, he's got a career OPS+ of 89. The only reason he's now comparable to Castillo is that Eck plays on 2 legs to Castillo's 1. When Castillo was in his prime he put up 3 seasons of 108-110 OPS+, with a few gold gloves. In fact, Barfield's rookie season was as good or better than any season Eckstein has had in all but 2 of his 7 major league seasons. And while its true Eckx was a 2bman in the minors, the last time he played the position was the 14 games he played for the Angels 6 years ago.

While i agree that Eck would not be substantially different than castillo at this point in Luis' career, i don't think either of them are that desirable. I'd rather try for Barfield, or give Gotay more of a shot, and save the $$ for pitching or catching.