Ankiel and HGH

[Gwreck]

Apparently he rec'd a year's shipment of it in 2004...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/09/06/2007-09-06_ankiel_received_12month_supply_of_hgh_ne.html

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

If he had invested in Valium, instead of HGH, he would likely be in the midst of a terrific pitching career.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Nothing going right if you're a Cardinal fan.

Still, Jocketty speaking in the passive voice is distressing. Most of these things aren't just happening to the Cardinals, but stuff the Cardinals have done. Jocketty has got to start looking at it that way.

[soupcan]

-Ankiel has had several injuries/surgeries since 2001 that anyone in his position would have wanted to recover from at a rapid pace

-Evidence was also found of shipments of HGH to former major league pitcher Steve Woodard. Woodard and Ankiel were teammates with the Triple-A Memphis Redbirds in 2004

-Hit two home runs, a double and had seven RBI yesterday against the Pirates at Busch Stadium, giving him nine home runs in 81 at-bats since his remarkable major league comeback began on Aug. 10.

Guilty as charged!

However -

-No proof that he recieved any HGH after the MLB ban was implemented in 2005.

[metirish]

I'm not shocked ,surprised or disappointed ,certainly a year for the Cardinals to forget of the field at least,perhaps on it too.

[Guest sharpie]

Cards are only a game out, though.

[Benjamin Grimm]

It would really annoy me if the Cardinals won another World Series with a win total in the low 80's.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

They're all filthy drug-using cheaters. They should move the entire franchise to the WWF.

[Guest Edgy DC]

The St. Louis Cardinals: the heartwarming story of group of individuals and their struggle to triumph over adversity brought on by themselves in their struggle to triumph over adversity.

[Willets Point]

Way to ruin the feel good story of the year, Ankiel.

[Frayed Knot]

I read this on another board Yesterday Morning - a full half-day before the story broke.

"The thing that amazes me most about [Ankiel] is how much he has transformed his body. I saw him up close and personal last week and he looks to be much stronger in his upper body and his lower body is much more lean. Good for him. He looks like he's worked very hard."


No idea where or how this guy saw him "up close and personal" or how accurate his observations are, but that was almost freaky timing for a toss-off line in the middle of a fan board discussion.



There's a lack of consensus about whether this HGH stuff really does anything for you athletic-wise, and that there appears to be only evidence that he received this stuff prior to the substance being banned means that there's likely little MLB can do officially.
What it does do is trash all the feel-good stories this guy has built up over the last year or two and particularly over the last 6 weeks.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

People should stop falling for feel-good stories and that includes the writers who write them. Seems like the outrage is always greatest when the going-in story is the warmest.

Athletes are untrustworthy bastards.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Sure, but, at some level, feeling good is what we're in it for. We kind of want to fall.

Better journalism that holds their subjects accountable and guides us more completely to the truth should be what the press is in it for.

Did the News really break this story?

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Yes. TJ Quinn has been all over the performance enhancement thing.

[Guest holychicken]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: They're all filthy drug-using cheaters. They should move the entire franchise to the WWF.

I didn't realize that the World Wildlife Fund was notorious for the use of performance enhancing drugs, let alone had any reason to actually use them.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I do believe that Mets had a panda in Class A who hit 45 home runs in a half-season before flunking a drug test.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ah, yes, the heartrending case of Dian Hu. What a disappointment.

[Centerfield]

That's scary edgy.

[Willets Point]

Edgy DC wrote: Sure, but, at some level, feeling good is what we're in it for. We kind of want to fall.

Actually I watch sports because I like to see human beings succeed at things at a higher level than the typical person, not to see them fail.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

[metirish]

Predictably St.Louis fans are upset.....with everyone it seems.

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=11

[stevejrogers]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: They're all filthy drug-using cheaters. They should move the entire franchise to the WWF.

Mike Piazza, Edgardo Alfonzo
Len Dysktra, Howard Johnson

As I said in the past, make sure you can deal with news about your favorite team's players if it is revealed that there is fire where there once was just some smoke in the same way you are about other teams (Giants, Cardinals, Yankees) just because you have a personal hatred for that team and/or its players.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

1. Shut up Steve
2. You missed the point
3. Shut up steve
4. Panda baseball. WTF

[soupcan]

I don't think anyone here thinks that just because a guy played for our favorite team that means they didn't use performance enhancing drugs.

Panda baseball: 548. Beat that Ankiel.

[metirish]

Did I miss some news regarding Piazza,Fonzie ,Lenny and HoJo?

[stevejrogers]

metirish wrote: Did I miss some news regarding Piazza,Fonzie ,Lenny and HoJo?

No I'm just sick of the virtiol fans have of teams they hate (Yankees, Cardinals, Dodgers, ect) and are willing to make permanent bans on guys like Giambi, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Sheffield for what they did for what seems only based on their hatred for the teams and players.

If you are that upset, then stop following baseball entirely because chances are you rooted for someone who DID cheat. And the four aforementioned Mets are among the biggest ex-Mets that have whispers and innuendo thrown around by non-Met fans or Met haters.

Here is something from another board that actually makes sense comparing Aaron and Bonds on the issue of steroids and greenies. Kind of making the point I'm trying to about making emotional, irrational statements based on your hate for one team/player when stuff like this has been going on for decades, and possibly by guys you like or teams you like

]Greenies would give you increased stamina and physical energy. Steroids give you increased stamina and physical energy with the added benifit of making muscle fibers heal more quickly. You don't take steroids and get strong. You take steroids and it allows you to do some crazy intense workouts for long periods of time (increased stamina and physical energy by the way). When you workout, the muscle fibers have to heal in order to get the best results. Usually this is you waiting until the soreness is gone to work out the same muscle group again, but on steroids, the muscle fibers heal faster allowing you to work out again faster. Greenies would give you similar effects minus you feeling sore in less time. Increased stamina and physical energy towards the middle of the season when your body starts getting fatigued is very much a performance enhancer. And why do people think Aaron took greenies? Because he would have been a minority among baseball players in his time if he didn't. The majority of the players took them (some estimates say 75% of them took the REGULARLY) in that time period. The reason you don't hear accusations about Aaron is that by the time Greenies were seen as a bad thing and banned (some, what, 30+ years later) Aaron was already a beloved national hero. No one was going to go back and point anything like that out. And like I said, if 75% of the league was using them then, who gives a fuck. They weren't doing what Aaron was doing so it wouldn't diminish his greatness in my eyes. Same with Bonds. Unless you truely believe tha the was one of the FEW guys taking something back when it wasn't against the rules to get an edge, then you have to know that yes, drugged up Bonds was playing against drugged up players and was doing what no one else was doing. As for Aaron and the video, back when everyone figured it would be Ken Griffey Jr. to catch his total, he gave an interview where he said he wouldn't be there when it happened because he wouldn't be traveling around waiting for the last home run and that the guy that broke it should have his moment because he already had his. The press pretending that he didn't show up as a slight to Bonds are just being misleading...as always.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Steve, please stop.

I think if you spent as much time reading as writing, you'd find a lot of people here with a more nuanced perspective than you give them credit for.

[metirish]

I don't recall anyone here defending Mota or any other Mets player that was suspended from the game,in fact I recall a lot of talk about weather the Mets were doing the right thing in having Mota back on the team.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Steve seems to be trying to step into the "everybody's an idiot but me" role.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

That will require a pretty huge step, probably more of a flying leap actually.