M*A*S*H Unit - Duque & Valentin

[Guest attgig]

="Yancy Street Gang"] ="Mayo Clinic"]You have more than 150 bursae in your body. These small, fluid-filled sacs lubricate and cushion pressure points between your bones and the tendons and muscles near your joints. Holy Crap! I didn't know I had any of those things! It sounds like the main reason Park would get this start is because of his current position in the New Orleans rotation. If he pitches and bombs tonight, they may well realign things so that Sosa can start next time around.

yeap, either that or align Sosa to Pelfrey's starts so that if Pelfrey bombs out in his next start, Sosa comes to replace him, and Pelfrey goes to AAA.

[Willets Point]

Centerfield wrote: I don't like how these reports don't have a timetable accompanying them.

Liberal cut-n-runner!

[Centerfield]

I never said I didn't support the effort, I just want to see some sort of plan.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

See the plan? Who do you think you are CF, ambler?

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

The Snooze today suggests that if Alou hits the DL with shoulder issues -- he hurt it diving in DC -- the likely callup is Carlos Gomez, since both Milledge and Ben Johnson are hurt.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: The Snooze today suggests that if Alou hits the DL with shoulder issues -- he hurt it diving in DC -- the likely callup is Carlos Gomez, since both Milledge and Ben Johnson are hurt.

I knew I recognized that guy!

Well, I guess we have our Met traffic injury of 2007 out of the way.

[Centerfield]

Ok. No more getting hurt.

[metirish]

Seeing Gomez would be exciting though.

[Vic Sage]

2B was a problem area this off-season, with nothing in the Mets pipeline at this position, for the forseeable future. The Mets answer was to re-sign Valentin, expecting him to repeat his excellent season.

And, despite a bad start, Valentin had come around and WAS giving us similar production. But he's out 2-4 weeks with a partially torn ACL. And, at his age, it might take longer than that for him to return to any level of effective production.

There is still nothing in the pipeline (Gotay and Anderson are barely adequate AAA players). So...

Question: Is there anybody in the minors with whom we can pull a "Kelly Johnson"? If not, is there any point in trading for a Ron Belliard type?

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't think anybody expected Valentin to repeat his season. If they did, they wouldn't have made bids on Julio Lugo and such.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yeah, but they did abandon the 2B search immediately after Lugo slipped away.

They didn't even talk to Marcus Giles.

It seems anyway that in their view Valentin was the second best option out there, after Lugo.

[Guest Edgy DC]

No, there were others. And Giles wasn't available until after Valentin was signed.

And I'm not sure Valentin wasn't a better option than Lugo.

Whatever disagreements we may have over their behavior in the free agent market, I don't think they point to the Mets believeing that Valentin was going to repeat, more likely that they thought he could do welle nough for the money. Plus they got Easley, who isn't so bad.

[Vic Sage]

Whatever the Mets thought or didn't think in the off-season, they went into the season without an answer at 2b other than "oh,well, lets resign Jose and hope for the best". If they didn't think he was capable of repeating, or at least approaching decent production, then re-signing him was irresponsible. And it wasn't like they waited till the last possible moment to re-sign him. As i recall (and my memory may be entirely faulty on this point, i'll grant you), they signed him pretty quickly after Lugo signed with Boston, without really exploring all other options... or at least that was how it seemed to me at the time.

And Easley? He has sucked BHMC for most of his major league career. He may or may not have been an upgrade over Woodward, but he certainly doesn't add up to "oh, well... valentin has gone down but at least we have Damian Easley!"

Anyway, i didn't bring it up to rehash what they did or didn't do in the off-season. I brought it up to explore the options about what, if anything, Omar should do NOW.

Do we take this opportunity to address our long-term problem at this position by finding a Kelly Johnson in our system?
Is there a trade for an adequate replacement available out there?
Do we just ride it out with Easley/Gotay, with the hope that Valentin can come back in a month?

[Guest Edgy DC]

You're throwing red herrings here and I'm not sure why.

Vic Sage wrote: Whatever the Mets thought or didn't think in the off-season, they went into the season without an answer at 2b other than "oh,well, lets resign Jose and hope for the best".

Every signing includes a liberal dose of hoping for the best.

Vic Sage wrote: If they didn't think he was capable of repeating, or at least approaching decent production, then re-signing him was irresponsible.

Nobody said anything about decent production. Of course they thought he was capable of decent production. I imagine you do also.

Vic Sage wrote: And it wasn't like they waited till the last possible moment to re-sign him. As i recall (and my memory may be entirely faulty on this point, i'll grant you), they signed him pretty quickly after Lugo signed with Boston, without really exploring all other options... or at least that was how it seemed to me at the time.

He signed in November, not early, but not particularly late in the free-agent season. If you recall, the market didn't have a whole lot of attractive second-base candidates and a few were signed and they went for the bird in hand. I don't know what inquiries they made once Bret Boone became available, but I'd've liked to have seen an offer also.

Vic Sage wrote: And Easley? He has sucked BHMC for most of his major league career. He may or may not have been an upgrade over Woodward, but he certainly doesn't add up to "oh, well... valentin has gone down but at least we have Damian Easley!"

I'm not sure I meant to say that. He's a decent backup. Though he may have spent more time losing than any player in baseball.

Vic Sage wrote: Anyway, i didn't bring it up to rehash what they did or didn't do in the off-season. I brought it up to explore the options about what, if anything, Omar should do NOW. Do we take this opportunity to address our long-term problem at this position by finding a Kelly Johnson in our system? Is there a trade for an adequate replacement available out there? Do we just ride it out with Easley/Gotay, with the hope that Valentin can come back in a month?

I think observe (and maybe inquire) for a week or two. It'd sure be nice to solve the issue long-term as well as short-term. Remember that shortstop prospects like Coronado are also second-base prospects.

[Guest Rotblatt]

]I brought it up to explore the options about what, if anything, Omar should do NOW.

I think Omar should definitely be targeting some 2Bs. I don't think he should make a move for its own sake, but if he find an even-steven deal to make, I'm all for it. My caveats would be: the dude should ideally be young enough that we could audition him as starter for next year; we shouldn't give up one of our top, say, 5 prospects for him, unless we're getting a player with similar or equal upside.

We probably don't want to break in a AAAA guy, but there are a couple back-up dudes who might be worth trying to acquire:

Mark Loretta (good OBP, zero power). Currently backing up Biggio at 2B & Ensberg at 3B. At 35, he doesn't exactly fit my "young dude" caveat, but he might be available for cheap. $2.5M this year, FA next year. Career line: .299/.363/.402/.765 OPS
Aaron Miles (mediocre OBP, zero power). Languishing on Cards' bench. 30 YO. $1M this year, arb eligible 2008-09. career line: .280/.321/.358/.679 OPS
Ryan Theriot (young, did a great job off the bench in 06). Currently riding a hot streak as starting SS, but officially he's backing up DeRosa at 2nd. 27 YO. Career line: .308/.381/.444/.825 OPS
Chris Gomez (decent OBP, filled in nicely for B. Roberts last year, with surprising pop). Backing up Roberts at 2B. 35 YO, $850K. Career line: .260/.326/.360./686 OPS
Jose Castillo (young, decent pop, K's a lot, poor OBP). Back-up utility man for the Pirates. Had a nice Spring, but has seen only 29 AB this year and has sucked in each of them (.329 OPS). 26 YO, arb-eligible through 09. Career line: .256/.299/.384/.683 OPS
Jerry Hairston Jr. (atrocious 2006, but historically decent OBP, little pop, good speed). Currently backing up Kinsler at 2B. He's a FA next year and is 30 YO. Career line: .257/.329/.362/.691 OPS
Omar Infante (young, decent pop, high K's). Languishing on the Tiggers' bench as a backup utility man. 25 YO, $1.3M, 2008-09 arb eligible. Career line: .252/.296/.388/.684 OPS

Pretty slim pickings out there in 2B land, really . . .

[nymr83]

can Scott Hairston still play the infield? Arizona has been moving him around and STILL not playing him for afew years now as he steadily gets older and less prospect-y.

[Centerfield]

In the News, it says Valentin has elected to rehab (and is expected to take about 4 wks) instead of surgery. Valentin is candid saying he doesn't want to lose time because of his contract. The article suggests that surgery could wipe out his season, or cost him three months. My question is this, which is it? If it's 3 months, he should get it done. Come back for August, September and October. If surgery means he's done for the season, then I guess there's no harm in trying the rehab first.

Does rehab ever work? It's a partialy torn ACL...as far as I know, I don't think they heal themselves.

[MFS62]

(Ducking)
Ty Wigginton?

Later

[metirish]

From what I read Jose tried this before when with LA,wore a brace and said himself that he was never comfortable wearing it...if he were a soccer player with a torn ACL then he'd be having surgery,not sure what my point is there in saying that.

Looking at your list Rotblatt are any of them big upgrades over what we have?

[Guest Rotblatt]

]Looking at your list Rotblatt are any of them big upgrades over what we have?

No, in my mind, with the exceptions of Loretta and Infante--and maybe Theroit and Castillo. Easley's got decent pop (.405 career SLG), and has a pretty good eye at the plate, which allows him to have a decent OBP (career .328) despite not hitting for average (.251).

Any of them would be an upgrade over Gotay, though, IMO, and they could act as a little extra insurance for Easley. I mean, if Wright or Reyes gets injured before Valentin comes back (God forbid), we'll find ourselves in a dark, dark place. Easley moves to short/third and Gotay to second, and Hernandez comes up to hit off the bench. U-G-L-Y, in my opinion. I'd prefer to see us build a little middle infield depth, preferably of the younger variety. Infante & Castillo fit that bill, and I think Loretta would be worth picking up too, based solely on his superior OBP. And veteran presense, of course.

PECOTA projections (red means below replacement--includes defense):

Easley: .245/.321/.388/.709 OPS
Gotay: .252/.313/.395/.708
Hernandez:.254/.296/.344/.640 (PECOTA thinks his defense will make him just a shade over replacement level despite his limp bat)

Loretta: .276/.341/.388/.729
Miles: .236/.284/.302/.586
Theroit: .272/.331/.360/.691
Gomez: .280/.336/.366/.702
Castillo: .264/.317/.407/.724
Hairston Jr: .255/.318/.350/.668
Infante: .263/.310/.422/.732

[metirish]

Newhan can play second base,lets not forget him.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Nah, let's.

[Guest patona314]

maybe omar's thinking this spring was to use jose/damon/etal as a stop gap. isn't orlando hudson on the market next year?

[Frayed Knot]

I want Ryan Theriot just for the best nickname: Ryan The Riot

[Vic Sage]

]Easley's got decent pop (.405 career SLG), and has a pretty good eye at the plate, which allows him to have a decent OBP (career .328) despite not hitting for average (.251).

A .328 OB% is NOT "decent", unless by decent you mean "below league average"... same is true of his "decent" pop. Easley would be adequate filling in here and there, or platooning against LHPs, but if he's our everyday 2bman for the next 6 weeks or so, we've got another hole in our lineup.

Who is our top SS prospect right now?

[Vic Sage]

here is our off-season thread on "Second Base", where we discussed these very issues.

http://www.getalifealready.com/cpf/archives/5100/f1_t5154.shtml

some interesting things there. They signed Valentin within 2 weeks of the end of the season. They pursued Lugo but when he signed with BoSox in December, Omar declared them "satisfied" with Valentin at 2b. We watched Barfield get traded to Cleveland, saw Loretta, Belliard, DeRosa and Aurillia sign elsewhere, and made no play for Vidro.

[Willets Point]

="Frayed Knot"]I want Ryan Theriot just for the best nickname: Ryan The Riot

I have a friend with that name and we called her The Riot, although it is actually pronounced Teary-Oh.

[Frayed Knot]

Those damn French don't know how to pronounce anything!

There's also an NHL player with that name (which is where I stole the nickname from).

[Guest Edgy DC]

The top shortstop prospect is probably Jose Coronado, who is scuffling at Binghamton. The top secondbase prospect is likely Hector Pellot, who is repeating Savannah and started slow but has come on of late.

The Mets are pushing both aggressively.

[Willets Point]

Frayed Knot wrote: Those damn French don't know how to pronounce anything!

I believe the pronounce anything as nim-poor kwah (n'importe quoi).