We Need a Ruling on Last Year's Question

[MFS62]

The question was "Who will be the 800th player to wear a Mets Uniform?".
Of the players acquired by the Mets since the end of last season, two who will probably be on the 25 man roster coming North are Moises Alou and Damion Easley.
It looks like Alou will be in the starting lineup, and Easley won't.
But Easley was signed 10 days earlier than Moises (Nov 17 vs Nov 27 of 2006).

So, which is the correct answer?

Later

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Alou.

[nymr83]

it follows then that if you sign and don't play at all you don't count? (David Justice?)

[Guest Edgy DC]

Yup. There have been 799 Mets who have appeared in games. We really lose control of the definiiton of "Met" if we start counting Bret Boone as one.

[Guest iramets]

Although I think it would be interesting and fun (and frustrating) to draw up a list of such quasi-almost-faux-Mets.

All sorts of categories: Mets who were Mets only nominally (Lee Walls would be the first, I think) but were swapped out before they donned uniforms; Mets who played on ST teams but never made the club; Mets who were acquired in-season but who never played (Im not sure who would fit into this category). We could assemble quite a large squad. Joe Randa, anyone?

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I've been told that Jerry Moses sat on the Mets bench during the regular season in 1975 but never appeared in a game.

Joe Rudi and Rollie Fingers did the same for the Red Sox. I wish they had gotten into that game that they observed in uniform. It would have been all the more interesting once Lucifer Kuhn reversed the deal.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Joe Rudi became a Sock eventually anyhow when the got him for Fred Lynnstone.

I think teams should make guys wear insignia-free hats in spring training until they make the team.

[Gwreck]

Nymr83 wrote: it follows then that if you sign and don't play at all you don't count? (David Justice?)

Justice was acquired via trade (Ventura) and sent away via trade (Mark Guthrie). He never signed a contract with the Mets.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

In-season, on-active-roster guys who never played a game as Mets (aka the Jim Bibby Squad in honor of the only 2-time DNPer in Met history)

P Jim Bibby, 1969 and 1971
C Jerry Moses, 1975
P Mac Suzuki, 1999
C Randy Bobb, 1970
OF Terrel Hansen, 1992
C Billy Cotton, 1972
P Anderson Garcia, 2006

[nymr83]

Gwreck wrote: ="Nymr83"]it follows then that if you sign and don't play at all you don't count? (David Justice?) Justice was acquired via trade (Ventura) and sent away via trade (Mark Guthrie). He never signed a contract with the Mets.

he was under contract with the Mets, a contract the Mets assumed when they traded for him.

[Frayed Knot]

]Of the players acquired by the Mets since the end of last season, two who will probably be on the 25 man roster coming North are Moises Alou and Damion Easley

Don't forget Schoenseis, Newhan, Smith, Sele, and prolly either Burgos or Park.

What I believe we decided a while back was that it would be the first one to "take part" in a game. IOW, whoever batter or pitched first since all would "appear" on the lineup card at the same time. That makes Alou the best candidate as he'd bat no later than the 2nd inning and none of the new pitchers are likely to throw a pitch before then.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

The decision was based on lineup order.

So if for some reason Newhan, for example, is in the starting lineup on Sunday night batting ahead of Alou, he becomes the 800th Met.

I think this makes sense because players are officially in the game once they're announced.

[G-Fafif]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: In-season, on-active-roster guys who never played a game as Mets (aka the Jim Bibby Squad in honor of the only 2-time DNPer in Met history) P Jim Bibby, 1969 and 1971 C Jerry Moses, 1975 P Mac Suzuki, 1999 C Randy Bobb, 1970 OF Terrel Hansen, 1992 C Billy Cotton, 1972 P Anderson Garcia, 2006

Justin Speier in 2001, too, I believe.

Hansen was '93. Because gosh forbid those two seasons be confused.

I remember being excited about Moses because he had been an All-Star in the A.L. And being let down because he didn't get a game.

Joe Hietpas laughs at Jerry Moses. Just a little Metly chuckle.

[stevejrogers]

Steve Rosenberg should also be on the list, he being the only Met to be on the DL for a full season and never getting into a game as a Met during his career. IIRC the year was 1991

[G-Fafif]

Kevin Northrup, 1995, was a case like that, though that's more along the lines of paper Met never on the truly active roster. Was put on the Major League DL in April, sent out on rehab in May and was activated in June for the sole purpose of getting rid of him altogether.

Though that appears to have been an innocent series of transactions leading up to a Rule V draftee simply being dismissed, it was a precursor to the Steve Phillips shenanigans of late Augusts 1999 and 2000 wherein he would purchase the contracts of minor leaguers who were never going to play for the Mets those seasons so he could put them on the DL, thus giving the Mets room to maneuver for the postseason. Those non-Mets were, in '99, Brent Huff and Scott McCrary and, in 2000, Leandro Arias. I believe a rule was added by MLB to cut that spit out as a result.

Karma, perhaps, that the Mets couldn't do anything with their roster after the rainout of Game One of last year's NLCS. The baseball gods never did much care for Steve Phillips and took it out on his former assistant.

[Gwreck]

Nymr83 wrote: ="Gwreck"] Nymr83 wrote: it follows then that if you sign and don't play at all you don't count? (David Justice?) Justice was acquired via trade (Ventura) and sent away via trade (Mark Guthrie). He never signed a contract with the Mets. he was under contract with the Mets, a contract the Mets assumed when they traded for him.

...which is *not* the same thing as "you sign and don't play."

[nymr83]

yes it is

[Guest Edgy DC]

Should we vote on whether it's the same thing?

[stevejrogers]

MFS62 wrote: The question was "Who will be the 800th player to wear a Mets Uniform?". Of the players acquired by the Mets since the end of last season, two who will probably be on the 25 man roster coming North are Moises Alou and Damion Easley. It looks like Alou will be in the starting lineup, and Easley won't. But Easley was signed 10 days earlier than Moises (Nov 17 vs Nov 27 of 2006). So, which is the correct answer? Later

The only way a listing of Easley before Alou would be used in some sort of uber-tenuered listing of the Met roster; Rather than the player's debut with team, but a "How The Mets Were Built" sort of listing. Other than that, if Alou appears in a game before Easley, Moises Alou will be numbered before Damon Easley. Even in listings of newcomers for 2007 which are usually in alphabetical order!

I guess the only other time is based on the fact that infielders are generally listed before outfielders whenever roster sheets are provided!

[Guest Edgy DC]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I think this makes sense because players are officially in the game once they're announced.

A caveat. It's been ruled you can't extend a games-played streak this way. An appearance for a non-pitcher only counts once you reach the plate or have a defensive chance. (Ask Hidecki Matsui.)

So I think if somebody gets a chance before Moises faces a pitch (or gets a chance), he's our guy.

[Frayed Knot]

The technicality that got the Matsui streak busted was [u:2ffc610885]not completing a half-inning[/u:2ffc610885] on defense or coming to bat - so his streak wouldn't have continued even if he wound up catching that ball on the play that injured him in the top of the 1st inning.

But minutae like that is put in simply to negate the ability to manipulate streak-type records. Matsui (I'm almost certain) received credit for a game played in that case (just like a pinch-runner would) just not for credit for purposes of "streak" records.
So if Alou were to run into the wall while chasing Eckstein's hit off of Glavine's first pitch of the game and never play again, I'm sure the official record book - not to mention both UMDB & MBTN - would still consider him to have played for the Mets and, for purposes of this discussion here, to have been Met #800.

BTW, this thread screams out for a listing of the other "100's" Mets.
I think someone doped out the first 7 a while back.

[Guest Edgy DC]

So it's first completed half inning, chance, or plate-appearance.

[Frayed Knot]

I don't see where a chance has anything to do with it.

- For simply a game played stat it doesn't matter whether you field a chance or not
- To continue a streak record you need to complete the half-inning, again, regardless of chances
- and for purposes of determining the 800th Met, since there is no "official" standard and we're pretty much making them up as we go along, Yancy says he's going with batting order.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

100: Jimmie Schaffer (July 26, 1965)
200: Bill Sudakis (July 11, 1972)
300: Phil Mankowski (April 11, 1980)
400: Randy Milligan (Sept. 12, 1987)
500: Kelly Stinnett (April 5, 1994)
600: Lenny Harris (July 4, 1998)
700: Tom Glavine (March 31, 2003)

[metsmarathon]

if its a home game, i would lean towards pitcher first, then the batting order.

if its a road game, then simply the batting order should suffice.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Frayed Knot wrote: I don't see where a chance has anything to do with it.

It should. If you complete a play, you've played.

[metsmarathon]

standing in the outfield while the third baseman completes a play is also playing.

[nymr83]

Edgy DC wrote: ="Frayed Knot"]I don't see where a chance has anything to do with it. It should. If you complete a play, you've played.

you've played once you take the field on defense whether the ball is hit to you or not. in fact you've "played" once your name is on the official lineup card, because you've been used at that point and cant be brought in later if you're replaced now

[Guest Edgy DC]

Yes, my brother, but completing a play is playing in a greater sense. A ghost can be written onto a lineup card, but cannot snare a line drive.

And once a play is made, one can't retroactively wipe that player's appearance from the record books as lightly. He made an out, shed some enemy blood. This cannot be undone.

If Morandini didn't play, I'd argue, then nobody caught my liner, and I can keep running.

[metsmarathon]

you don't give ghosts nearly enough credit.