2ND BASE

[seawolf17]

Get back, Loretta.

[metirish]

sharpie wrote: I thought Loretta was signing with Cincy.

From Reds.com

] Rumors surfaced that Cincinnati offered free-agent second baseman Mark Loretta a two-year deal worth $6 million. The club emphatically denied the report. "We have not made an offer to Mark Loretta, I can tell you that," Reds manager Jerry Narron said without hesitation. Both Narron and general manager Wayne Krivsky confirmed there have been talks with Loretta's agent, Bob Garber. "I've talked to his agent, but I've talked to a lot agents," Krivsky said.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

At this point I think I'd rather have Belliard over Loretta.

Last season was a down year for Ronnie, by his own standards, but his OBP was only .022 less than Loretta's constantly heralded output. Belliard has much better power, and is a better defensive player. Both are right-handed hitters who improve against lefty pitching (except for Belliard's abysmal performance last year, which is highly out of character for him).

No doubt, Belliard had a bad season in '06, and was out-performed by Loretta. But he seems to have the advantage in all around talent and could prove last season to be a fluke.

A lot also depends on other variables. Length of the contract. Is Loretta willing to split time? Do we want a guy with extra base pop, or someone to hit in the 8 spot and get on base?

Either way, it's better than Lugo.

[Guest sharpie]

I sure wasn't impressed with Belliard's defense in the LCS. Also don't like the way he sticks his tongue out.

[TransMonk]

sharpie wrote: Also don't like the way he sticks his tongue out.

Ditto. I dislike that more than his defense.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

Pelfrey and Wright are both tounge guys.

[Guest sharpie]

Wright and Pelfrey are not in the same league tongue-wise as Belliard.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Belliard's more in a league with Gene Simmons than David Wright or Mike Pelfrey.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

From The Daily News:

="Adam Rubin"]JOSE'S OK: After coming up short in his pursuit of Julio Lugo at second base, Minaya indicated he's satisfied with Jose Valentin as his starter and won't continue to pursue other players to man the position.

[Guest iramets]

="Yancy Street Gang"]From The Daily News: ="Adam Rubin"]JOSE'S OK: After coming up short in his pursuit of Julio Lugo at second base, Minaya indicated he's satisfied with Jose Valentin as his starter and won't continue to pursue other players to man the position.

After shooting off his left leg with a shotgun yesterday, Minaya indicated that he's satisfied with his right leg and that he's always wanted to get around on crutches for the rest of his natural life anyway.

[Guest Rotblatt]

]After shooting off his left leg with a shotgun yesterday, Minaya indicated that he's satisfied with his right leg and that he's always wanted to get around on crutches for the rest of his natural life anyway.

Good one!

Maybe if we end up trading for Harden, we can also squeeze out a AAAA 2B with a little upside from Oakland.

I'm okay with Valentin as our second baseman, but in case he tanks, I'd really really like a moderately competent backup. And I'm sorry, Andy Handy, you are not he.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, we also currently have Damian Easley, Ruben Gotay, Chris Basak, and Chase Lambin.

Nothing ideal there, and yeah, we should and will bring in more young and old options in spring training (including Edgardo Alfonzo, maybe), but we are talking about backing up our number eight hitter. I'm frankly more worried about backup plans for Green and Alou than the depth behind Valentin.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Edgy DC wrote: I'm frankly more worried about backup plans for Green and Alou than the depth behind Valentin.

Good point. I think Alou will be solid when healthy, but how often will that be? And Green worries me. He didn't look too good for us last year.

[Vic Sage]

] AAAA 2B with a little upside from Oakland.

well, I seem to recall they have some fella named Scutaro who i wouldn't mind having back.

[Vic Sage]

]Green worries me. He didn't look too good for us last year.

Green was one of our better hitters in the post-season, but i'm not seeing much beyond a .280/15hr/65rbi lead-footed, iron-gloved player in a steady decline.

[Vic Sage]

Loretta, at 35, doesn't offer us anything more than Valentin. Lets save our chips for a significant upgrade to the rotation, rather than frittering away talent/$$ on marginal upgrades/backups to the #8 hitter.

[nymr83]

Edgy DC wrote: Well, we also currently have Damian Easley, Ruben Gotay, Chris Basak, and Chase Lambin. Nothing ideal there, and yeah, we should and will bring in more young and old options in spring training (including Edgardo Alfonzo, maybe), but we are talking about backing up our number eight hitter. I'm frankly more worried about backup plans for Green and Alou than the depth behind Valentin.

Milledge, Chavez, and Johnson are all here.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I guess I can go on. For one. more. day.

[Centerfield]

Vic Sage wrote: Loretta, at 35, doesn't offer us anything more than Valentin. Lets save our chips for a significant upgrade to the rotation, rather than frittering away talent/$$ on marginal upgrades/backups to the #8 hitter.

That is assuming Valentin plays as well as he did last year and not the way he played the year before. Loretta is more of a sure-thing, and comes relatively cheap.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Yeah, as said often in this thread, it's not that Valentin is awful, it's that there's the worry that if he is awful, we pay through the nose to upgrade in-season.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I just think this team can handle Valentin falling down a lot easier than it can handle a (likely) injury by Alou or a continued Operation Sunset by Shawn Green.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I don't know about that. I'm more comfortable with Endy Chavez getting a lot of fill-in at bats than I am with Anderson Hernandez doing so.

They do have a better backup outfielder than infielder. But on the other hand, if Valentin is replaced, the fill-in is hitting in the 8 slot, which has a lower impact than replacing a guy who's part of the heart of the lineup.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Right.

Also know that Endy Chavez's 2006 performance was much further removed from his career track than Jose Valentin's.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Endy's younger though. He may have finally learned how to play. At Valentin's age, though, decline is more likely than improvement.

[Vic Sage]

Centerfield wrote: ="Vic Sage"]Loretta, at 35, doesn't offer us anything more than Valentin. Lets save our chips for a significant upgrade to the rotation, rather than frittering away talent/$$ on marginal upgrades/backups to the #8 hitter. That is assuming Valentin plays as well as he did last year and not the way he played the year before. Loretta is more of a sure-thing, and comes relatively cheap.

No, it assumes Valentin, even if he regresses to career averages, is still ok as a #8 hitter. If he falls apart, gotay, etal, get to hit 8th. And Loretta, at his age and rate of decline, is no more a sure-thing than Valentin at this point in his career. He also has signficantly less range, for those who care about such things.

Again, i might take Loretta over Valentin this year, but its not a meaningful difference. Its time to focus on a pitcher.

[nymr83]

agreed, pitching needs to be the focus right now, i like loretta but valentin/loretta in no way makes or breaks the Mets 2007.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Marcus Giles is a free agent:

] Braves decide against offering contracts to Giles, Reitsma By PAUL NEWBERRY, AP Sports Writer December 12, 2006 ATLANTA (AP) -- The Atlanta Braves cut ties to Marcus Giles on Tuesday, deciding they could no longer afford the second baseman under their ever-tightening budget. The Braves pushed hard to trade Giles during the winter meetings, but couldn't work out a deal for someone to take their leadoff hitter from this past season. So they declined to tender him a contract for 2007. General manager John Schuerholz said he couldn't risk going to arbitration with Giles, who made $3.85 million in 2006 and likely would have commanded over $5 million for next season. "It's not an easy decision when you're talking about somebody's who's been a key guy for our team over the years and grew up in our organization," Schuerholz said. "But it's a fact of the matter with the economics of this business. As salaries continue to rise, we've got to use our assets the best way we can to put our most balanced team together." The 28-year-old Giles made the All-Star game in 2003, his first full season as a starter. He wound up hitting a career-best .316 with 21 homers and 69 RBIs -- all career highs. But Giles was plagued by injuries and clearly uncomfortable when the Braves moved him into the leadoff spot for 2006, seeking a replacement for Rafael Furcal. The second baseman slumped to .262 with 11 homers, 60 RBIs and 10 stolen bases, his disappointing season coinciding with the end of Atlanta's record streak of 14 straight division titles. "You can't just look at Marcus in a vacuum. He's been a very productive player for us," Schuerholz said. "When salaries continue to rise and productivity tapers off some, an organization gets to a point where it has to measure what the return on the investment is." In another move, the Braves also decided not to offer a contract to former closer Chris Reitsma, who missed much of last season after elbow surgery. The right-hander was 1-2 with an 8.68 ERA and eight saves before he went out. While Schuerholz doesn't expect any further talks with Giles, the Braves might try to bring back Reitsma to bolster the depth of their bullpen -- one of the team's top priorities during this offseason. Reitsma made $2.75 million in 2006 and is hardly in line for a major increase. "He's at a different salary level that Marcus," Schuerholz said. Giles' agent, Joe Bick, said the Braves' decision not to tender a contract to the second baseman was no surprise, given their well-publicized efforts to trade him. "I think Marcus had probably come to grips some time ago that he had played his last game with the Braves," Bick said. "He has no regrets. He loved the time he spent in Atlanta. He played hard for them every day. He was a good, quality player for them." Giles can negotiate with any team, but it's clear that San Diego would be his first choice. His older brother, outfielder Brian Giles, already plays for their hometown Padres. "We're going to look into that possibility, among others," Bick said. "I don't think the fact that a trade hasn't worked out is any reflection on his abilities as a player." Barring another move, the Braves will go into spring training with a three-way battle for second base that includes rookie Martin Prado, converted outfielder Kelly Johnson and utility player Manny Aybar. "Whoever it is, we feel like we're going to be solid at second base," Schuerholz said. "As tough as this decision was about Marcus, the overriding decision is what gives us a chance to put our best team on the field." Prado batted .262 with one homer and nine RBIs in limited duty for the Braves. Johnson missed most of the year with an elbow injury after batting .241 with nine homers and 40 RBIs the previous season, sharing left field with Ryan Langerhans. The Braves acquired Aybar in a midseason trade with the Los Angeles Dodgers. The infielder batted .280 with four homers and 30 RBIs, but hasn't proven that he is accomplished enough defensively to play regularly at second base. No matter who wins the job, the Braves aren't likely to get as much offensive production as they did from Giles. Giving up a former All-Star who's still in his 20s without getting anything in return shows just how much pressure the Braves are under to slash payroll, even coming off a sub.-500 season in which they finished 18 games behind the NL East champion New York Mets. "While we have cut ties to a player of Marcus' caliber, that doesn't mean we're throwing in the towel on putting together a championship-caliber team," Schuerholz insisted. "It's just going to look different."

[nymr83]

I wouldn't mind signing Giles for something like 2 years, $10 million if thats doable... there'd be no promise of a starting job, though if he earned it and got X ABs over the 2 years (or Y in the second year alone) I'd include an automatically vesting 3rd year at $10 million (a nice amount i know but there needs to be an incentive to sign the deal for him)

[smg58]

So let me get this straight... he's 28, is a second baseman with a career .800 OPS, and $5M in this market is too much? Huh? They must think Giles is damaged goods; otherwise that makes no sense at all. He had a .643 OPS against lefties last year but an .835 OPS against them from 04-06. He's a great pickup if he's healthy, but something tells me he doesn't get non-tendered if he's healthy.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Giles may be a luxury, but he can do some serious damage to lefties, though his splits were pretty even, checking last year.