2007 Pitching Rotation Hot Stove Conversation

[Elster88]

Edgy DC wrote: Perez was helped by telling him to go back to his old style of throwing (use the fastball more).

I infer from this that somewhere along the line someone tried to adjust Perez's pitching style AFTER his 200 K in 170 IP season.

If true, it's fucking amazing. From Doc to Perez, it's been 20 years of pitching coaches adjusting young phenom pitchers AWAY from what makes them great.

I wonder what Seattle's staff did to fuck up Felix Hernandez this year.

PS: What's the plural of phenom? Phena? Phenoms?

[metsmarathon]

phenoms.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I kind of look at Perez and Robo as co-requisites. Minaya likely wanted them both for different but equal reasons. When Mota starting performing, Roberto soon became the lesser important part of that deal.

Minaya was probably delighted that the Perez half of the acquisition was downplayed to some extent, taking the pressure off of him, Peterson, and Perez to make something of the deal.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Elster88 wrote: ="Edgy DC"] Perez was helped by telling him to go back to his old style of throwing (use the fastball more).

No, Edgy DC did not.

[MFS62]

="Elster88"] ="Edgy DC"] Perez was helped by telling him to go back to his old style of throwing (use the fastball more). I infer from this that somewhere along the line someone tried to adjust Perez's pitching style AFTER his 200 K in 170 IP season.If true, it's fucking amazing. From Doc to Perez, it's been 20 years of pitching coaches adjusting young phenom pitchers AWAY from what makes them great.

Yep, from the stories we read when the Mets got Perez, that's exactly what happened. The Bucs tried to get him to throw more breaking pitches and take some speed off his fastball in order to improve his control. They felt he was throwing too many pitches at a young age and were fearful about the long term impact on his arm.

Later

[Elster88]

Edgy DC wrote: ="Elster88"] Edgy DC wrote: Perez was helped by telling him to go back to his old style of throwing (use the fastball more). No, Edgy DC did not.

My apologies. When cutting text out after hitting the quote button on the first thread in this post, I kept your name as the quotee when it should've been 62.

[Guest Rotblatt]

My understanding is that the main difference was tightening up Perez's delivery by tweaking his mechanics.

Either way, the dude was on last night. He was throwing lots of strikes with nasty stuff. I have to say, having two 25-year olds who throw in the mid 90's feels pretty good. At least, it feels good when they throw strikes.

[Elster88]

="MFS62"] ="Elster88"] ="MFS62"] Perez was helped by telling him to go back to his old style of throwing (use the fastball more). I infer from this that somewhere along the line someone tried to adjust Perez's pitching style AFTER his 200 K in 170 IP season.If true, it's fucking amazing. From Doc to Perez, it's been 20 years of pitching coaches adjusting young phenom pitchers AWAY from what makes them great. Yep, from the stories we read when the Mets got Perez, that's exactly what happened. The Bucs tried to get him to throw more breaking pitches and take some speed off his fastball in order to improve his control. They felt he was throwing too many pitches at a young age and were fearful about the long term impact on his arm. Later

So basically the same thing that f'ed up Doc (besides coke). Those pitching coaches surely are geniuses.

[metsmarathon]

hey, i'm kinda liking ours right now...

[MFS62]

In case anyone's interested, Jeff Suppan will be a free agent after this season.


ducking

Later

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Ducking from what?

I'd be interested.

Or are the Cardinals the new Braves, and anyone who wore the uniform is unforgivable?

Let's not start that crap all over again.

[MFS62]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Ducking from what? I'd be interested. Or are the Cardinals the new Braves, and anyone who wore the uniform is unforgivable? Let's not start that crap all over again.

Nothing to do with his team. He's basically a .500 career pitcher without spectacular stuff who had a memorable series. Ducking because I expected a cascade of NOs.

Later

[Vic Sage]

"no" to suppan. happy?

1. _______
2. Glavine
3. Maine
4. O.Perez
5. El Duque / Pedro (Duque to pen if/when Pedro comes back)

If we don't sign a front-line SPer, then everybody moves up one and either Heilman (unlikely) or Bannister is the 5th SPer until Pedro comes back.

Wagner
Sanchez
Heilman
Feliciano
Mota
Bradford
D.Oliver

If they're only going to spend money on 1 big FA acquisition, at this point i'd prefer they go for a corner OFer or 2bman (soriano?) than any of the available SPers.

[seawolf17]

I would be okay if they offered Dave Williams arbitration. Never hurts to have a lefty emergency starter in AAA.

[Vic Sage]

Ramon Castro - no. backup catchers are a dime-a-dozen.
Endy Chavez - yes. i think he's turned a corner, offensively. He's an excellent 4th OFer.
Oliver Perez - yes, absolutely.
Duanier Sanchez - yes, i think. he was unhittable 1st half of season.
Victor Zambrano - no. lets just bury the past and move on.
Dave Williams - maybe. i'm not enamored of him, but if he's cheap enough.

[MFS62]

Free agents at all positions:

http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency.php

Get 'em while they're hot.

Later

[DocTee]

Aren't Mota/Sanchez/Heilman a bit repetitious in the pen? Seems to me they (can) do a lot of the same stuff, especially when it comes to matchups, etc.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Maybe, but they get guys out. Having three guys who get guys out is a good thing, especially when you have to go to the bullpen in the fifth or sixth inning.

[Vic Sage]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Maybe, but they get guys out. Having three guys who get guys out is a good thing, especially when you have to go to the bullpen in the fifth or sixth inning.

amen

[Vic Sage]

I'll take Carlos Lee or Soriano in LF, and maybe Gil Meche for the rotation.

[Valadius]

Please, let's not forget one big reason behind this team's success: its chemistry.

A Soriano has the potential to disrupt that chemistry. We have to take that into account.

[seawolf17]

Do we have Bradford signed for next year?

[Vic Sage]

]Please, let's not forget one big reason behind this team's success: its chemistry. A Soriano has the potential to disrupt that chemistry. We have to take that into account.

he went 40/40 in a pitcher's park. I'd be happy to take that and let Willie worry about the chemistry. Besides, with Delgado, Green, LoDuca, Reyes and Wright, around, i'm not too worried about Soriano getting too out of line. If he's on a winning team, he's unlikely to turn into terrell owens.

[Vic Sage]

seawolf17 wrote: Do we have Bradford signed for next year?

no, he's a FA.

[MFS62]

Vic Sage wrote: I'll take Carlos Lee or Soriano in LF, and maybe Gil Meche for the rotation.

I'd be very ok with that.

As for Soriano, I think I read that Sori and Randolph had a very good relationship when they were both with the Yankees. Willie may even been his mentor. If true, that could make him a better Met than some might be afraid of if he does sign here.

Vic, if Lee (LF)and Soriano (2b) are both added to the current lineup, I'll fight you to see who gets that open starting pitcher's spot.

Later

[RealityChuck]

="Elster88"] ]BTW, let's put a rest to the story that Perez was a throw-in. Minyana kept trying to wrest him from the Pirates, but they wanted Nady and Omar wouldn't trade Nady him one-for-one. Once Sanchez was hurt, Omar went back and asked them to throw in Bert to make the deal I never once heard the story described this way. Not even remotely. I can't take it just on your say-so. When and where did Omar say this?

Quoted by Murray Chass in today's Times (bolding added): http://tinyurl.com/trmd5

]�Maine came to the Mets with Jorge Julio from Baltimore for Kris Benson in the off-season, and P�rez came from Pittsburgh with Roberto Hern�ndez for Xavier Nady on July 31. Neither Maine nor P�rez was an accidental acquisition. �I was talking to the Pirates for a while about Oliver P�rez,� Minaya said. �Oliver P�rez was the opening-day starter for the Pirates. I�m of the belief that left-handers take longer to develop.� In 2004 Perez had a 12-10 record and a 2.98 earned run average for the Pirates and struck out 239 in 196 innings. But he followed that performance with a poor season and a half for the Pirates and was back in the minor leagues when the Mets lost S�nchez for the season in a taxicab accident. They needed a substitute relief pitcher, and Minaya identified Roberto Hern�ndez as the pitcher he wanted. Before that development, Minaya said, his talks with the Pirates about P�rez stalled because the teams couldn�t agree on names. �Dave Littlefield and I had talked about P�rez for about a month,� Minaya said. �I�m always shopping for guys who are down but can pick up. �I thought a change of scenery might help P�rez,� he added. �I thought our environment with Tommy Glavine and Pedro and all that might help.� Until he had a need for a reliever, Minaya said, he wasn�t going to trade Nady for P�rez straight up. �It wasn�t going to happen,� Minaya said. �You don�t give up a guy in the major leagues for someone who�s in the minors.�

[Batty31]

Minaya is on WFAN right now and said he will definitely be trying to bring Glavine back.

[Guest Edgy DC]

One thing about Oliver, even last night, his movement takes him all over the place. Even when he's going right, it can go wrong real fast. One minute he can seem fixed, but then broke as soon as you turn your back. And even if the Mets continue to work with him, he may soon replace Victor Zambrano as the Rick Peterson's most frustrating pupil.

Another side to it is that, if the Mets don't see room in the rotation for him and/or Maine, these past two days have been great showcases for them.

Check out the Times accenteing the first syllable in "P�rez."

[MFS62]

Edgy DC wrote: One thing about Oliver, even last night, his movement takes him all over the place.

Do you mean the movement on his pitches or his throwing motion? I've noticed that his throwing motion resulted in different release points on each pitch when he first joined the Mets. It seems to have improved since he joined the Mets, and may be one of the "mechanical" things Peterson can continue to work with him on.

Yes, I heard Omar yesterday. Regarding bringing Glavine back - the Mets will owe him around $14+M if he stays(an innings bonus kicked in), and over $7 million if he chooses to leave. That makes me apprehensive that the Braves would be willing to pay him $8 million to equalize his salary to bring him back.

In addition, Omar said he has already begun gearing up the organization in their efforts to improve the team for next year. He added that he has already received the OK from Wilpon to spend money to improve the team. And they will explore trades as well as free agency to do that. He has scheduled meetings already with his scouts, player development and minor league operations staffs for the next few weeks.

So, it sounds like there may be a lot of hot stove stuff (or rumors of it)happening shortly. For that reason, I'd like this thread to be come a sticky. for the reporting of all hot stove stuff.

For example, in case anyone missed this day-brightening item on the transaction wire:
"10/12 Jose Lima (P) Declared Free Agency "

Later

[seawolf17]

According to today's Newsday, it's $14.5 million on the team option, $7 (or $8, I don't recall) million on the player option. The buyout is $3 million. So worst case, he gets only $3 million from the Mets.