Barry Zito Meter 10/3 Do we go after no matter what cost

[stevejrogers]

El Duque questionable
Pedro, out till June-ish
Starting rotation in shambles...
Barry Zito just outdueled Johan Santana on Santana's turf

Is Zito worth the FA dollars?

He is a Boras client and hasn't quite been the 2002 Zito in a while.
Its possible he would be a terrible fit in NYC (see Pavano, Carl for an example)

And if he is, how high are you now willing to go?

[metsmarathon]

i'm gonna go with option three...

also, "whatever it takes" is just silly. there whould always be an upper limit to what you are willing to pay. since you presumably are responsible for the one vote for whatever it takes, what if it took $52.7 M per season, plus all fans in attendance on the day that zito pitches would be required to wear only burlap sacks or be turned away by security guards armed with stun guns and trained weasels? you'd be already on record as signing up for those terms.

Edited October 3, 2006 by Guest

[Guest vtmet]

is he worth the money?
no...

Is he an Elite ace?
IMO, no...

do I want him?
not really but...

after seeing the way that Ryan Howard, Chase Utley and Jimmy Rollins have done in the 2nd half of the season...combined with seeing how badly the Twins young lefties looked against Zito's offspeed pitching...Zito may not be as bad of an idea as I used to think...

[stevejrogers]

vtmet wrote: is he worth the money? no... Is he an Elite ace? IMO, no...

Granted Peterson's track record (i.e. 10 minutes with Zambrano) is shitty, but there is a reason Beane still kept him around and dumped Hudson and Mulder on the Braves and Cards.

Considering how Hudson and Mulder have been injury prone since the trades makes me think Mr. Zito just needs his old pitching coach and a "change of scenery

[metsmarathon]

SteveJRogers wrote: Granted Peterson's track record (i.e. 10 minutes with Zambrano) is shitty...,

i thought both ends of that statement had already been debunked...?

[stevejrogers]

Well he's no Mazzone or anything, but its kind of been a common thought around baseball that Peterson was kept around for this exact spot, to bring in Barry Zito

[metsmarathon]

that's not at all what i'm questioning.

what i'm questioning is that:

a) peterson's track record is shitty
peterson claimed to be able to do anything more than correct a minor mechanical flaw in victor zambrano's delivery in 10 minutes.

[stevejrogers]

metsmarathon wrote: that's not at all what i'm questioning. what i'm questioning is that: a) peterson's track record is shitty peterson claimed to be able to do anything more than correct a minor mechanical flaw in victor zambrano's delivery in 10 minutes.

Peterson never used the 10 minutes line with Zambrano? Seems like Peterson will never live that one down though.

Show me evidence that Peterson has made a difference to a pitcher here in NY since he's been here.

[metsmarathon]

you claimed he's been shitty. i think htat makes it your onus, but i can look it up later if i'm sufficiently motivated.

the info i've seen says that peterson did indeed say something about 10 minutes with zambrano, but it was only to fix a minor flaw in his delivery, not turn him into the next sandy koufax or anything of the sort. and i wouldn't be able to find that now if i tried. maybe the wayback machine can be of some assistance...?

[Guest vtmet]

so far, I've read that a catcher's inability to throw out runners has little effect on a pitcher...and now, a pitching coach has little effect on a pitcher? Does Willie's pep talks where he goes out and yells at Maine have any effect? It sure looks that way to me because just about every time that Maine is losing it, Willie's trips to the mound snaps him out of it...

[metirish]

Well he's no Mazzone or anything,

Check out how Baltimore did this season...

[metsmarathon]

so far, three people would have no problem wearing burlap to shea next season...

[Willets Point]

metsmarathon wrote: so far, three people would have no problem wearing burlap to shea next season...

They saw how good Jessica Alba looks in burlap and decided to follow suit.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Granted Peterson's track record (i.e. 10 minutes with Zambrano) is shitty, but there is a reason Beane still kept him around and dumped Hudson and Mulder on the Braves and Cards.

Kindly take garbage like this to a forum that will tolerate it. I mean it.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I took three.

I'd take four if it were available: I don't (and never had) Zito on a roto team, I
don't think he's hot looking, Scott Boras eats donkey doo, and Rick Peterson
wore short sleeves a couple of times this year so that dispells the rumors that
he has hive scratching wounds from his 'ten minutes with Zambrano'.

[Edgy MD]

SteveJRogers wrote: Seems like Peterson will never live that one down though.

That's because too many people get a hateful idea in their head and won't listen to anything else. Don't let yourself be one. Ever

SteveJRogers wrote: Show me evidence that Peterson has made a difference to a pitcher here in NY since he's been here.

Show me evidence that his track record is pretty shitty.

[metirish]

SteveJRogers wrote: Show me evidence that Peterson has made a difference to a pitcher here in NY since he's been here.

Pedro Feliciano,Jorge Julio,Chad Bradford, Mota...Glavine, Heilman...I could go on.....will this ever go away?

[Elster88]

Eh. I'll remove this.

Miami's calf is pissing me off.

Edited October 3, 2006 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

See now, you shouldn't have answered that, because you allow him to put the burden of proof on you. Of course, it's rather unproveable that any player's success can be attributed to his coach, so your preponderance of evidence can be rejected as not being "proof."

Edited October 3, 2006 by Guest

[smg58]

I'm not sure how much of yesterday's game was Zito, and how much of it was the Twins swinging at one pitch out of the strike zone after another. He doesn't get away with that against the MFY's.

[smg58]

PS This marks the third year in a row that the Mets' pitching has exceeded my expectations, and I don't know how you'd evaluate a pitching coach based on anything else.

[Benjamin Grimm]

There's always rumor and innuendo.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Parroting talkradio douchewhistles is how I go about it.

[metsmarathon]

douchewhistle. that's a new one.

i have no idea how the hell i'm going to incorporate that one into my everyday vernacular, but it's important that i try.

[Edgy MD]

Three bad ways to behave:

• Parroting talkradio douchewhistles


• Douching talkradio whistleparrots


• Whistling talkradio parrotdouches

Edited October 4, 2006 by Guest

[RealityChuck]

Show me evidence that Peterson has made a difference to a pitcher here in NY since he's been here.

Telling Glavine to start using a curve ball. Glavine specifically cited Peterson as making the suggestion, which put him onto the All-Star team this year.

Oliver Perez went from a washed-up AAA player in July to just short of making the postseason roster (and some reports say he'll be on it). I saw a scout's analysis online comparing video of Perez with the Pirates earlier this year with how he's pitching with the Mets (and with him a couple of years ago), showing that he's changed the way he pitches to more like he did when he won a dozen games and praising Peterson. Someone had to tell Perez what he was doing wrong, and Peterson is the obvious choice.

Here's the analysis: http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/mechanics/discussion/the_complex_case_of_oliver_perez/

[Benjamin Grimm]

Don't forget Guillermo Mota. What a turnaround he had this year after he was traded.

Of course, some will argue that it was our old friend "Change of Scenery" who fixed what was wrong with Mota.

[metsmarathon]

what pitchers has peterson made worse?

[MFS62]

Peterson;
The Good; He told Williams to move to the other side of the rubber - immediate good results.

The Bad: He tried to change Heliman's delivery (from 3/4 to overhand). After getting knocked around, Aaron went back to the delivery that had been successful for him in college and his performance improved.

The Ugly: Well, Mother Teresa couldn't have cured what was wrong with Jose Lima.

Later

[metirish]

The Bad: He tried to change Heliman's delivery (from 3/4 to overhand). After getting knocked around, Aaron went back to the delivery that had been successful for him in college and his performance improved.

IIRC it was Peterson that told him to go back to how he threw while at ND.