Tides Deathwatch

[Guest ABG]

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=110406&ran=208980

]NORFOLK - Did you stick around to hear the recording of Frank Sinatra singing “New York, New York” that played over the public address system after Monday’s game? If you did, then you might have heard it for the last time at Harbor Park, for the Tides might have just played their last game as the New York Mets’ Triple-A affiliate. After 38 years as a Mets affiliate, the contract between the Mets and Tidewater Professional Sports, Inc., lapsed without having a new deal in place. The Tides are left to file with Minor League Baseball today for the right to begin discussions with other major league teams. September, it appears, will be a month of wheeling and dealing. How it works Since the Mets and Tides did not reach agreement, Norfolk will file a letter asking for permission to pursue a new affiliation deal with another major league team. They have until Sept. 11 to file. On Sept. 12, all major league teams and Triple-A teams without affiliation will be informed of who is available for a deal. On Sept. 16, teams will begin a two-week courting period. Look for the Tides to have a new major league affiliate in place by the last week of September.

This would really suck. I love going to games at Harbor Park, and the Tides/Mets are a big part of the community down there. Save the Tides!

[Willets Point]

Well the Tides don't need saving, it's the affiliation btw. New York & Norfolk. Any ideas on where the Mets would want to have a Triple-A affiliation if not Norfolk? Are other teams going to be interested in giving up their current affiliation to go with Norfolk (mebbe Washington or Baltimore?)? Are the Mets out of it or can they court Norfolk with the rest?

[Willets Point]

I just checked on Washington and Baltimores affiliations and I think they would consider Norfolk prime territory. Washington's AAA team is in New Orleans and I would not be surprised if they'd want to get out of that afflicted city. Baltimore has a long-time policy of keeping their minor league teams close to home. Every minor league team in the system is in Maryland except one team in West Virginia and their AAA squad in Ottawa. I bet they'd love to get their hands on an AAA team only 4 hours from Baltimore.

[Valadius]

The AAA affiliates of Minnesota (Rochester), Toronto (Syracuse), and Cleveland (Buffalo) are all close by. Here's how I see this potentially shaking out:

Mets: Syracuse (Toronto)
Toronto: Ottawa (Baltimore)
Baltimore: Norfolk (Mets)

[Guest Edgy DC]

My first guess is that this is only temporary.

My second is that they take over Rochester from the Twinkies.

I like Harbor Park. I don't like much else about the area, however.

[MFS62]

Val
The Mets had their first AAA team in Syracuse. Young Ed Kranepool played there in 1962. They moved to Buffalo a year or two later.
Who says you can't go home again?

Later

[Valadius]

On the subject of Minor League Baseball...

This is an actual team. I shit you not:



They're the D-Rays' AA affiliate.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The Phillies are going to abandon Scranton, PA. Their AAA team will be on Ottawa, Ontario next year and the permanent location will be Allentown starting in 2008.

Scranton is pretty close to New York.

[Frayed Knot]

Of course it's not as easy as simply deciding to "take" a particular affiliate from another team. Only those cities who also have expiring agreements are going to be available.

NYM & Norfolk are currently one of the longest lasting ML/AAA affiliations around. Be a shame if it went away.
Considering that the whole Norfolk/Chesapeke area is one of the largest metroplitan areas without a ML team, it's tough to think of a city that's closer or more attractive.

[MFS62]

I vote for Scranton. There's a seafood restaurant near the U of Scranton that had over 100 International beers on the menu when I went there several years ago.
Other than that, there's absolutely NO reason to go to Scranton.

Later

[Benjamin Grimm]

The only reason I ever went to Scranton was to visit Steamtown in 1999.

[seawolf17]

Scranton would be a good pick. It's not far, and if they have an expiring deal, then it makes sense.

The Rochester-Baltimore connection was the longest in AAA (or perhaps all of minor league baseball, I don't remember) before it was severed. But as I've said, Rochester's been much better off since the change. As someone who considers Rochester his home away from home, I would double my job search efforts up there if Rochester or Syracuse got the Mets.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Scranton has precedent. John Cardinal O'Connor was called up from Scranton when he made the bigs.

[Benjamin Grimm]

My guess is that it's not a coincidence that the Mets are abandoning Norfolk at the same time that Scranton is becoming available.

I've never made the trip to Scranton to see the visiting Tides. For whatever reason, I find AA baseball more interesting that AAA. I was figuring I'd go to Allentown, which is closer, to see the Tides when they came to town. Maybe instead I'll go to Allentown to see the Red Barons as a Mets affiliate.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

For some reason, I feel like posting a pic of Lenny Dykstra in an old Tidewater Tides uniform.



It's definately going to be weird no having the Tides around anymore. Let's hope for Heath Bell's sake that the new affiliate is closer to NY.

[Willets Point]

Edgy DC wrote: Scranton has precedent. John Cardinal O'Connor was called up from Scranton when he made the bigs.

Classic line.

I hope that if the Mets change affiliations that they pick up a team in the International League North so that that team plays more road games against Pawtucket.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I thought the Phils were leaving Scranton because it was a dump.

Why would the Mets go there?

[Frayed Knot]

The Yanx' agreement w/Columbus is up also.
They could be looking to move further east (esp since George no longer maintains a residence in Ohio) and might be a competitor for Scranton if that actually is a sought after destination.

This game of affiliiate musical chairs is common each winter - but the Mets have stayed out of it for the most part by being very stable at the higher levels.

[MFS62]

Frayed Knot wrote: This game of affiliiate musical chairs is common each winter - but the Mets have stayed out of it for the most part by being very stable at the higher levels.

I believe that stability is a result of a Frank Cashen edict (from his days at Baltimore) that all of the home ballparks in the minor league system have roughly the same dimensions as Shea. He felt that not only added to player familiarity when they were brought up to the majors but helped the scouts better assess talent as it rose through the ranks.
If the Mets were to play musical chairs with their minor league franchises, they might not be able to modify the ballparks of the city to which they moved to conform to those dimensions.

Later

[MFS62]

More on the Tides possibly moving from a Mets fan who lives in Norfolk.

]Not sure what the problem is... went through a similar problem last time they had to renew the contract... Rosenfeld is a dick sometimes and I think he is trying for a bigger piece of the pie... The local paper ran a poll today to ask the locals who they would want the tides to be affiliated with... I sure hope the Mets can renegotiate and stay.. the Tides have been the Mets AAA club since '69 and I'd hate to see it change... with the money the Mets have invested in the stadium (one of the best in the minors) and the fan support for the team (they average better than 500,000 in attendance) and have been one of the better franchises in the AAA for the last 10-15 years, I can't see the Mets going down without a fight. The results of the poll won't be out for a few days the other options for affiliatioin are with the Orioles or Washington because they are within 200 miles of us... I'll keep you informed if I hear of any new news

Later

[Frayed Knot]

Except that it still comes down to the ability to strike a business agreement between the franchise and the individual local owners.
I believe the NYM agreements with Norfolk & Binghamton both pre-date and post-date Cashen.

[MFS62]

Yes.
But just because the agreements may have pre-dated Cashen, it doesn't mean those stadia didn't conform to his requirements. And for that reason ,they have been renegotiated since he left the organization.

Later

[soupcan]

When I was in school and the Tides came into town to play the Syracuse Chiefs I'd always take in a game or two.

I saw Magadan and El Sid work it as minor leaguers up there. I wouldn't mind the Mets being a Syracuse team. It would centralize my rooting interests at least.

Weren't the Rochester Red Wings always an Orioles affiliate? When did they switch to Minnesota?

[Frayed Knot]

<<<<---- Say Hey!!!!!



The Rochester-Baltimore affiliation was, I believe, the longest running in MLB/MiLB (40+ years?) when it ended about 3 years ago.
IIRC, the story at the time is that Rochester was fed up with Bal'mer (Angelos?) rather than the other way around.

[Valadius]

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- The New York Yankees might end their 28-year affiliation with the Columbus and align with another Triple-A team.

The International League team said Friday the Yankees have informed them of their intentions.

"While we have enjoyed working with the New York Yankees, we also understand that baseball is a business and the Yankees have every right to explore new relationships that may be better suited for the goals of their organization," Ken Schnacke, president and general manager of the Clippers, said in a statement.

The Clippers said their board of trustees voted to begin negotiations for an affiliation with another club. The Clippers have until Sept. 30 to sign a new deal.

The New York Mets, Washington Nationals and the Baltimore Orioles do not have an affiliate. The Philadelphia Phillies have spoken to Ottawa about making the Lynx their top farm club next season.

Schnacke said in an interview the Clippers will be back next year regardless of what happens with the Yankees.

"The only difference will be where players come from," he said.

Columbus finished its season Sept. 4, closing with a 69-73 record in the West Division. Most of the Yankees' best farm products the past three decades played for the Clippers. The team was once among the top draws in the minors until the wave of new stadiums.

The Clippers play at 74-year-old Cooper Stadium. A $55 million stadium will be built near the brick-and-glass home of the city's NHL team, the Columbus Blue Jackets. The baseball stadium is expected to open in July 2008.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Columbus would make a good indy-league city. I don't know why I feel that way.

Check out Frayed Knot's post above.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

A guy who follows minor-league activity at thinkfactory figures the MFYs will go to Scranton, the Orioles will take over Norfolk, the Nats wind up in Columbus and the Mets will play in ... New Orleans!

The Phillies to Ottawa is a done deal while they await a new park in Allentown.

Deals need to be made by Sept. 30, or else Bud assigns them.

[MFS62]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Deals need to be made by Sept. 30, or else Bud assigns them.

There is prescedent for this. He put a minor league team in Milwaukee.

Later

[Benjamin Grimm]

New Orleans is in the Pacific Coast League, isn't it?

Wouldn't that mean that often the players would be far from New York, making quick callups more difficult?

Probably doesn't matter a whole lot, but it's something to think about.

[soupcan]

N'awlins?

Isn't the point of all this reshuffling to bring the AAA squad gegraphically closer to the big league one?