Mets get Shawn Green

[Guest Edgy DC]

Obviously, some cultural identifiers are more relevant than others.

[Frayed Knot]

So these two Italian-English-German/American fire fighters from coastal Conneticut walk into a bar ...

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

CF - your posts in this thread reminded me of this. I always loved how you tied in Jae Seo's performance to the birth of your son.

[MFS62]

Ex-Twin Rick Reese and current Met (I haven't checked the transaction wire lately) Heath Bell share my birthday.

A little more about the "community" comments. Last night one of the announcers said that "Staten Island's own Jason Marquis will be pitching for the Cards tomorrow".

My mind flashed back to the early days of the Mets. When the Mets would be playing the Braves in the next series at the Polo Grounds, the announcers would always say something like "coming to town are the Braves, with Hank Fischer from Yonkers". They said it so often that someone would have thought that Yonkers was his last name.
In my mind, to someone from Yonkers, to whom those things were important, they would know that. Anyone else didn't give a flying rat's rectum about it.

Do they actually think that would increase attendance?
C'mon. Those Braves had three future Hall of Famers. Hank Fischer?
Gimme a break.

(I'll climb down off my soap box now)

Later

[Guest Iubitul]

Frayed Knot wrote: So these two Italian-English-German/American fire fighters from coastal Conneticut walk into a bar ...

LOL - stop! That one's hysterical!

I don't know - maybe I'm just naive, but I've never given a rat's ass about anyone's ethnicity, or religion, or whatever.

]The book of Jewish sports heroes!" is still floating around, a little counter-example is always a nice thing for my kids to see.

I understand that. Green, by all accounts is someone to look up to, and I am glad to have him on the team (I would have preferred a RH bat, but that's the subject for a different thread).

However saying something like this:

]Commonality gives us something additional to pull for. Not all Mets are created equal

Sounds a lot like Green is more equal than other Mets due to his religion, and if that is the case, is just wrong.

[Guest Edgy DC]

You know, we all agree that Memoirs of a Geisha was an awesome film, but if Centerfield wants to take a little extra personal satisfaction because of his cultural ties to it, is that so wrong?

[Willets Point]

metirish wrote: Damn I feel a great sence of pride that Pete Flynn is from Ireland,imagine how I'd feel if the Mets had a player from Ireland on the team......

But you know that the Irish have a natural tendency toward gardening and groundskeeping not athletics (except thoroughbred training of course).


SC=100

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Iubitul wrote: However saying something like this: ]Commonality gives us something additional to pull for. Not all Mets are created equal Sounds a lot like Green is more equal than other Mets due to his religion, and if that is the case, is just wrong.

First of all, it's not merely his religion, but it's the fact that he's made an effort to be a role model to kids that is noteworthy.

And I have witnessed you root for and against your own favorites on this team. The fact that someone wears a Mets uniform doesn't automatically sway you to root for Aaron Heilman or Chris Woodward.

People have favorite players for a variety of reasons. Identifiabilty, be it for religion, ethnicity, the sharing of birthdays, etc. are all things that go into why we pull for certain players moreso than for others. It doesn't make those players "more equal than other Mets," but it goes into why you're not going to be buying your kid a Heilman jersey.

[Guest Iubitul]

ScarletKnight41 wrote: And I have witnessed you root for and against your own favorites on this team. The fact that someone wears a Mets uniform doesn't automatically sway you to root for Aaron Heilman or Chris Woodward.

And as I have stated, it's all about what happens on the field.

I had a problem with Heilman, because I thought he wasn't giving it his best effort.

I had a problem with Michael Fucker because I can't get past what he did as a Brave.

I don't think Woodward is good enough to don a major league uniform, and shouldn't be wasting a roster spot.

All because of what they do on the field.

Tell me where that differs with anything I said here - Here's the short answer, it doesn't.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I just scratched a hole in my head.

[Guest KC]

I knew this was going to happen, I should just go bury my head in the sand.

[Guest Iubitul]

KC wrote: I knew this was going to happen, I should just go bury my head in the sand.

Oh sure - and expose that ass even more....

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

The point is that we all have our favorites.

And you appear to be standing in judgment about what factors the rest of us should or shouldn't be using in determining our individual favorites.

If Michael Tucker is less equal to you, despite the fact that he has been a model player since coming on board, that's totally your prerogative. You're allowed to not like certain Mets, even if their misdeeds are seeping into the annals of ancient history.

If Lastings Milledge is more equal to you because you share a birthday with him, that's also your prerogative.

The rest of us prioritize fandom based on a whole slew of factors, and all of our mileage varies based on individual factors.

[Guest Iubitul]

But my point is that my favorites, or lack of favorites is due to what happens on the field, nothing else.

And as for your Milledge reference - I adopted him long before I had a clue about his date of birth. Again it was all about his promise, and percieved ability on the field.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Iubitul wrote: But my point is that my favorites, or lack of favorites is due to what happens on the field, nothing else.

I really don't think it's as cut and dry as that.

And most of us can and do own up to the fact that all sorts of off-the-field factors go into fandom. It's human nature.

[Guest KC]

Iu: >>>it was all about his promise, and percieved ability on the field<<<

And you wear your hair the same as he does.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Why Tucker? We have, by my count, four players and a coach who are former Braves. Dozens of other former Braves have ended up at Shea also.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't see anything particularly hateful about Tucker. He didn't wear the Braves uniform out of a desire to be evil. They're just one of 30 baseball teams.

I have no problem with Tom Glavine being a former Brave either. Or Julio Franco. Should they have refused to ever play for the Braves because the team from Atlanta is inherently evil? And were the Braves evil back in 1987 when Glavine first pitched for them? Can we forgive him for pitching for the Braves back then because it was a youthful indiscretion, but loathe him for not leaving as soon as they became evil? (And when was that anyway?)

Or have the Braves always been evil? If that's the case, should I rip up my Felix Millan baseball cards?

[seawolf17]

What did Michael Tucker ever do as a Brave to us? I didn't even know he was a Brave. Ms. Wolf asked who he was the other night, and I said he played for the Royals.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

It goes back to 1998, when Tucker came up spikes high against Piazza in a game right before the All Star Break.

[Guest Iubitul]

="KC"]Iu: >>>it was all about his promise, and percieved ability on the field<<< And you wear your hair the same as he does.

You only know that because I let you peak under my do-rag...

[Guest Edgy DC]

Mets to hate:

Kurt Abbott, Jack Aker, Sandy Alomar, Bob Aspromonte, Jim Beauchamp, Juan Berenguer, Terry Blocker, Bobby Bonilla, Darren Bragg, Rico Brogna, Brett Butler, Paul Byrd, Buzz Capra, Don Cardwell, Tony Castillo, Rick Cerone, Bruce Chen, Brad Clontz, Carlos Diaz, Jorge Fabregas, Pete Falcone, Leo Foster, Julio Franco, Matt Franco, Danny Frisella, Dave Gallagher, Gary Gentry, Bernard Gilkey, Tom Glavine, Mike Hampton, Tom Hausman, Danny Heep, Ken Henderson, Ron Herbel, Roberto Hernandez, John Hudek, Bob Johnson, The Other Bob Johnson, Mike Jorgensen, Kevin Lomon, Eli Marrero, Mike Marshall, Tom Martin, Greg McMichael, Felix Millan, Willie Montanez, C. J. Nitkowski, Joe Nolan, Charlie O'Brien, Tom Paciorek, Bill Pecota, Alejandro Peña, Todd Pratt, Charlie Puleo, Jeff Reardon, Steve Reed, Mike Remlinger, Armando Reynoso, Ray Sadecki, Rey Sanchez, Doug Sisk, Pete Smith, Tim Spehr, Mike Stanton, George Stone, Tony Tarasco, John Thomson, Joe Torre, Alex Treviño, Michael Tucker, Claudell Washington, Gerald Williams, and Tyler Yates.

Grrrr... Kevin Lomon. I'm stil steamed at that little two-faced shit.

[Guest Iubitul]

seawolf17 wrote: What did Michael Tucker ever do as a Brave to us? I didn't even know he was a Brave. Ms. Wolf asked who he was the other night, and I said he played for the Royals.

In 1998, Tucker was the Brave that went in spikes high into Piazza in the game before the all-star break. He was called safe by Angel Hernandez because Hernandez had a plane to catch...

[Centerfield]

It's a tough situation.

It's very common to hear minority groups express satisfaction at seeing the advancement of someone in their community. "It's good to see a black manager." "I like him because he's a good Jewish ballplayer." But if a white, protestant fan ever said "I like Joe Ballplayer because he's white", he'd be roundly criticized. Even in a situation like the NBA where white players are a minority.

I don't know the right answer. I find nothing wrong with Scarlet taking extra pride that Green is a Jewish ballplayer, nor do I think it's wrong that I hope someday the Mets have a Korean American star. At the same time, I certainly have no problem with lubitul's colorblind approach. And I appreciate that he has it. Hell, if everyone thought like lubitul, it would make this whole debate unnecessary.

But therein, I guess, lies the problem. Until everyone has a colorblind approach, minorities will be rooting for role models to shoot down negative stereotypes. To make that Jewish Superstar book a little thicker.

[Guest KC]

SK: >>>Tucker came up spikes high against Piazza<<<

What harm could that have done, Piazza never blocked the plate. Oooops,
flashback - wrong thread.

[seawolf17]

="Edgy DC"]Mets to hate: Kurt Abbott, Jack Aker, Sandy Alomar, Bob Aspromonte, Jim Beauchamp, Juan Berenguer, Terry Blocker, Bobby Bonilla, Darren Bragg, Rico Brogna, Brett Butler, Paul Byrd, Buzz Capra, Don Cardwell, Tony Castillo, Rick Cerone, Bruce Chen, Brad Clontz, Carlos Diaz, Jorge Fabregas, Pete Falcone, Leo Foster, Julio Franco, Matt Franco, Danny Frisella, Dave Gallagher, Gary Gentry, Bernard Gilkey, Tom Glavine, Mike Hampton, Tom Hausman, Danny Heep, Ken Henderson, Ron Herbel, Roberto Hernandez, John Hudek, Bob Johnson, The Other Bob Johnson, Mike Jorgensen, Kevin Lomon, Eli Marrero, Mike Marshall, Tom Martin, Greg McMichael, Felix Millan, Willie Montanez, C. J. Nitkowski, Joe Nolan, Charlie O'Brien, Tom Paciorek, Bill Pecota, Alejandro Peña, Todd Pratt, Charlie Puleo, Jeff Reardon, Steve Reed, Mike Remlinger, Armando Reynoso, Ray Sadecki, Rey Sanchez, Doug Sisk, Pete Smith, Tim Spehr, Mike Stanton, George Stone, Tony Tarasco, John Thomson, Joe Torre, Alex Treviño, Michael Tucker, Claudell Washington, Gerald Williams, and Tyler Yates. Grrrr... Kevin Lomon. I'm stil steamed at that little two-faced shit.

Well, some of them, anyway...

[MFS62]

Edgy, how did you forget Cliff Cook?
LOL!

EDIT: Sounds like its time for a "Non-big name Mets to Love" spinoff thread.
Would you like to do the honors?

Later

[Guest Iubitul]

="seawolf17"] ="Edgy DC"]Mets to hate: Kurt Abbott, Jack Aker, Sandy Alomar, Bob Aspromonte, Jim Beauchamp, Juan Berenguer, Terry Blocker, Bobby Bonilla, Darren Bragg, Rico Brogna, Brett Butler, Paul Byrd, Buzz Capra, Don Cardwell, Tony Castillo, Rick Cerone, Bruce Chen, Brad Clontz, Carlos Diaz, Jorge Fabregas, Pete Falcone, Leo Foster, Julio Franco, Matt Franco, Danny Frisella, Dave Gallagher, Gary Gentry, Bernard Gilkey, Tom Glavine, Mike Hampton, Tom Hausman, Danny Heep, Ken Henderson, Ron Herbel, Roberto Hernandez, John Hudek, Bob Johnson, The Other Bob Johnson, Mike Jorgensen, Kevin Lomon, Eli Marrero, Mike Marshall, Tom Martin, Greg McMichael, Felix Millan, Willie Montanez, C. J. Nitkowski, Joe Nolan, Charlie O'Brien, Tom Paciorek, Bill Pecota, Alejandro Peña, Todd Pratt, Charlie Puleo, Jeff Reardon, Steve Reed, Mike Remlinger, Armando Reynoso, Ray Sadecki, Rey Sanchez, Doug Sisk, Pete Smith, Tim Spehr, Mike Stanton, George Stone, Tony Tarasco, John Thomson, Joe Torre, Alex Treviño, Michael Tucker, Claudell Washington, Gerald Williams, and Tyler Yates. Grrrr... Kevin Lomon. I'm stil steamed at that little two-faced shit. Well, some of them, anyway...

And you missed Mike Hampton?

Oh wait - we can't hate him - he's just interested in better schooling....

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

He's a looser.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Cliff Cook never played for the Braves. Mike Hampton wasn't forgotten.