Yanx v Sawx -- Act ... whatever

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Value
Over
Replacement
Player

It expresses how much better a guy performs, expressed in runs, over a typical "replacement player" i.e.: A stiff from the waiver wire who'd take his place if he went away.

Think of "replacement player" performing slightly below average.

[Guest Edgy DC]

A little more than a little, isn't it?

When they first started laying out this stat, I seem to remember a rough guide being to estimate a replacement-level OPS at 60% of league average. So a guy with a 64 OPS+ would have a positive (albeit tiny) offensive VORP, but a guy with a 56 OPS+ would not.

[Frayed Knot]

Back to Jeter for a second;

Look, he's having a terrific season and deserves to at least be in the discussion of year-end awards if things continue as they are.
It's just so damn frustrating to hear people - some of whom could even have votes - discuss his 9th inning RBI bloop hit as if an award clincher. "Because that's what Jeter does", said Washington' Post/ESPN's Michael Wilbon ... and I can't even go into the lapping that went on with Joe Badabingo and partner du jour yesterday; "it's a joke that he hasn't already won several" considering how clutch he is.

It's this 'proof by anecdote' method that drives me nuts, as if Joe Mauer's higher BA on a team that steamed back into a race in the toughest division in MLB by winning something like 40 of 50 couldn't possibly have produced as many BIG hits as Jeter since us NYC-ers don't see him as often.
In some minds this is strictly down to Jeter vs Ortiz and Jeter sealed it this weekend because he proved (all together now) that he's a winner!!!!

[Willets Point]

Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry Running Dangerously Low On Storylines.

[Guest Rotblatt]

The worst part of the Jeter bullshit is that if the Sox don't make the playoffs, Ortiz is pretty much out, which almost makes Jeter a shoe-in, even though there are way more deserving guys than BOTH of them out there.

Morneau & Mauer both need to be considered for any MVP award. Morneau's batting .317 with 31 HR and 108 RBI, which will appeal to the old-skool voters, and he's got a .956 OPS and 43.2 VORP (he's hurt by the large number of dominant 1Bs out there).

Mauer, meanwhile, is on his way to winning the batting title while playing beyond stellar defense at catcher and has amassed the fifth-best VORP in the AL at 56.7--just below Ortiz & Tejada's 57.3's.

Manny, IMO, would be a better choice than either of them (1.076 OPS, 63.8 VORP and he plays on the field.), but since his team isn't likely to make the playoffs and the Ortiz hype is overwhelming, he's got almost as slim a chance as Mauer does.

Travis Hafner, however, is the guy who should probably win it.

.310 AVG / .436 OBP (2nd in league) / .660 SLG (leads league) / 1.095 OPS (leads league), 39 HR (2nd in league), 111 RBI (2nd in league), 75.1 VORP (leads league by a lot).

He's the most dominant power threat in the game right now by a lot, yet he gets no play in the discussions. It's a crying shame he's on such a crappy team in such a tough division.

Over in the NL, it should probably go to Pujols again (leads the majors in OPS and is second only to Hafner in VORP) but Beltran's definitely a worthy alternative, since he plays stellar defense in a difficult position AND has serious speed--his 15 SB have to count in the discussion.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Wow. This shows how far I've fallen as a baseball fan, and narrowed my interest exclusively to the Mets.

The name Travis Hafner isn't the least bit familiar to me.

I can't even tell you what team he plays for.

[Centerfield]

We have this discussion every year, but a performance like Hafner's should be proof positive that a team's won-loss record has very little to do with the accomplishments of an individual player. So awarding Jeter because his team finishes first, while discounting Hafner is as arbitrary factoring in uniform color to the discussion.

The MVP should go to the best player in each league. Regardless of salary, expectations, team record, uniform color etc.

Unless, of course, a player is Jewish. Then he should win hands down.

[Frayed Knot]

The sad part is starting to hear how Jeter should get the award "to make up for" all the times he has so obviously been screwed out of it in prior years ... as if there's some sort of cumulative process at work here and past misses add up to one win whether it's deserved or not.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Derek Jeter = Susan Lucci.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Which, at last, explains those tingly feelings he gives me.

[Centerfield]

What baseball should really do is give him one of those honorary lifetime achievement awards.

[stevejrogers]

="Frayed Knot"]Back to Jeter for a second; It's this 'proof by anecdote' method that drives me nuts, as if Joe Mauer's higher BA on a team that steamed back into a race in the toughest division in MLB by winning something like 40 of 50 couldn't possibly have produced as many BIG hits as Jeter since us NYC-ers don't see him as often. In some minds this is strictly down to Jeter vs Ortiz and Jeter sealed it this weekend because he proved (all together now) that he's a winner!!!!

Yeah, thats how Ortiz almost won it last year. Many people's sole reason for picking him was "Seems like he's always getting the game winning hit, every time!"

[stevejrogers]

Frayed Knot wrote: The sad part is starting to hear how Jeter should get the award "to make up for" all the times he has so obviously been screwed out of it in prior years ... as if there's some sort of cumulative process at work here and past misses add up to one win whether it's deserved or not.

Other than 1999 has there been a year where Jeter has been an actual MVP candiate?

[metsmarathon]

have i mentioned yet that i absolutely abhor the "take him off the team" arguments in MVP discussions?