Happy Birthday to a Precocious Five Year Old

[stevejrogers]

Can someone fully explain the whole Fourm Wars and the splits of the Original MetsOnline Fan Fourm?

I kind of had a vacation from the Mets Fans Internet Community around that time. I knew the original MetsOnline.net was closing its doors thanks to MLB.com's zapping of exhaustive fan sites, and I may have signed up here and at Joe McDonald's NY Sports Day's MOFO around the 2001-2002 offseason but didn't really have much to post about or lurk about! Funny I found it more interesting to be on the AOL Listserv Mets List than on a message board.

Well that is before everyone started hating on me because I would take ideas from sports radio and newspapers (fully credited) that would be seen as stupid comments and ideas. Heh, I think I was the Bret Sabermetric of that forum, although there was a guy named Joe Hersfield that was even more hated than Bret/Sal has ever been!

Steve

[stevejrogers]

Wow, doing the cycle here! HA!

[Willets Point]

] Can someone fully explain the whole Fourm Wars and the splits of the Original MetsOnline Fan Fourm?

No, just no. Some things are better forgotten.

This is The Overtime.

[stevejrogers]

Its the Friday of the first Subway Series and I'm the only guy in Overtime's IGT? I even STARTED the IGT DURING THE GAME!

Tell me its not crickets over there at over time!

HAHAHAHA!

[stevejrogers]

Yeah that was bad...

[Theoldmole]

Trying to remember how I stumbled on CPF, but I cannot for the life of me.

[stevejrogers]

Can't believe SK hasn't arrived yet with this:

[Guest KC]

You strike me as a trouble maker, Mr. Rogers.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I always considered 9/11 to be the real father of the CPF. People just got too freaked out round then.

[stevejrogers]

="Johnny Dickshot"]I always considered 9/11 to be the real father of the CPF. People just got too freaked out round then.

I can see that.

[stevejrogers]

Still trying to remember exactly when I sort of dropped off the Internet Met Community and jumped back on, or at least the Forum portion of it.

Wasn't it right around that time, or maybe October that the Original MOFO went "rudderless"

Did I post anywhere about my interview with Ed Coleman anywhere around here? (or at least the old MOFO) Hmmm Trying to remeber... That was the last thing, I think, I ever wrote for pay, a local newspaper in the town Eddie C calls home.

Damn, I'm almost 30 and it seems the last 10 years are a jumbled mess...

[DocTee]

UMDB down?! Went to check some stats and got an error messgae-- here's hoping it's only fleeting (thats where I first learned of CPF by the way).

[stevejrogers]

]Warning: mysql_connect(): Host 'vogons.qwknetllc.com' is blocked because of many connection errors. Unblock with 'mysqladmin flush-hosts' in /hsphere/local/home/ultimate/leaptoad.com/mets/mysqlhead.sht on line 8 We're sorry! The database that powers the Ultimate Mets Database is currently unavailable. Please visit us again soon.

YAAANCY! Ya got some 'splaining to dooo!

[Frayed Knot]

"Can someone fully explain the whole Fourm Wars and the splits of the Original MetsOnline Fan Fourm? "

The whole idea of "forum wars" is more than a bit overstated.
Bryan Hoch's original MetsOnline Forum (MoFo) was threatened by MLB's lawyers and Bryan simply chose not to fight it. He could have easily made the small changes it would have taken to continue but by then he was ready to move on the other things. The remains of that site (essentially the forum part of it) continue today as NYSportsDay or whatever it's called.

But even prior to that changeover, this place sprung out of MoFo not because of any great holy war but because the founding folks here didn't like the direction it was taking. Too many screaming teenagers (posts totals would skyrocket at 3:00 after the school buses let out), and too many folks who were interested in having an opinion but not necessarily prepared to intellectually defend or explain it. 'Do this NOW!!!!', or 'FIRE [whoever]' were hourly rants passed off as discussion and a topic brought up in the morning was pushed to page 3 by afternoon as 15 new threads on the same subject were started within hours by folks too either lazy to see that it was already being discussed or were just too interested in seeing their "name" under 'thread started by' as many times as possbile. Think of the worst aspects of talk radio and then figure that there's no such thing as a call-screener. And then there were trolls and just plain morons who - doing their impression of 'I remember my first beer' dopiness - set about trying to destroy a forum simply because they could. It just became exhausting to keep up with and not worth it for some.
Initially, this joint was set up simply as a place to retreat to and figure out what to do about the mess over there before returning. Eventually the folks doing the retreating realized that they were already "talking" to the people they were interested in talking to and they might as well continue to discuss the Mets HERE instead of just complaining about how hard it was to discuss them THERE.
And yeah, there were a handful of personality conflicts which added to the split but those didn't create this place as much as give some an extra excuse to come here.

The only real "holy war" didn't develop until this place (the earlier EZBoard version) was "outed". It was an invite-only place at first (after all, you couldn't really say: 'hey to get away from all you trolls and dopes we're going to **THIS ADDRESS HERE!!!!**) so when it was "discovered" so were the threads where we were discussing who from the old place we did - and more importantly did NOT - want to invite. That caused a few nasty words back and forth but mainly from the folks who didn't like each other to begin with and it pretty much died out over time. Some of the early invites here continued to post in both places all along and some still do. It's been pretty much a non-story for several years now.

[Gwreck]

Frayed Knot wrote: The whole idea of "forum wars" is more than a bit overstated. Bryan Hoch's original MetsOnline Forum (MoFo) was threatened by MLB's lawyers and Bryan simply chose not to fight it.

I wasn't a poster at the MoFo but was a fan of the old Metsonline.net. The irony is that after being threated by the lawyers, Bryan would eventually go on to be hired and work for Mets.com. After Marty Noble he writes a lot of stuff for the site.

[Frayed Knot]

He set up that site as a hobby in the early days of the internet when he was like 14 y/o. The forum part of it was probably considered minor when he first started before eventually becoming the tail that wagged the dog as the internet became more universal. He himself rarely chatted on the forum part of the site and I always suspect must have been quite amused at the monster it became.
The MLB lawyers werenpt really interested in driving sites like his off the net as they were in making sure that no one was using their logos and such on non-approved sites. Like I said, he could have easily made it comply but was probably ready to move on in any case.

[stevejrogers]

Frayed Knot wrote: He set up that site as a hobby in the early days of the internet when he was like 14 y/o. The forum part of it was probably considered minor when he first started before eventually becoming the tail that wagged the dog as the internet became more universal. He himself rarely chatted on the forum part of the site and I always suspect must have been quite amused at the monster it became. The MLB lawyers werenpt really interested in driving sites like his off the net as they were in making sure that no one was using their logos and such on non-approved sites. Like I said, he could have easily made it comply but was probably ready to move on in any case.

Ditto with JWS52 Marriage and a full time teaching job ended his regular games attended and eventually website!

Heh, thats the problem with website and forums sometimes. When someone decides that its time to move on to something bigger and better, in some cases the masses go nuts.

A funny example is an Internet Wrestling Community icon, Scott Keith, he had a Pro Wrestling (WWF/WCW/ECW and various indys and countries) website akin to the old MetsOnline with columnists and a web board. Well he got some professional writing gigs, and even a book offer so he actually quit being the comphrehensive site guy and now does columns for someonelse (let someone who has the time and patience do the dirty work) while he has time to write his own blog, books and his actual job.

Of course as this happened the IWC went nuts (much, MUCH more imaturer than even the Trolls of MOFO past I assure you) calling Keith a sellout, acting like the guy should be a webmaster of his old site for life, ect.

Just an interesting aside

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I always considered 9/11 to be the real father of the CPF. People just got too freaked out round then.

9/11 brought us together on the MOFO but ultimately drove us apart, when the jingoists began spewing hatred. But here's a sample of initial MOFO postings on 9/11 that had little hate in them (sorry for the length, and the lack of formatting, but I don't think we have this archived anymore. It also features on of Bryan's rare appearance as a poster):

Mets Online Fan Forum
> New York Mets
> World Trade Center Memories


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Baseball Mom
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 7671
(9/11/01 9:37:42 pm)
Reply

World Trade Center Memories

I thought it was appropriate to start a thread of memories of these
great buildings. What we remember most about them.

For me, I can't remember the New York skyline without them (even
though I always preferred the midtown view from the Empire State
Building. Or, for that matter, the uptown view from the tower of
Riverside Church). I just remember it being there for routine things.
The TKTS kiosk. Office buildings. An occasional dinner at Windows
on the World. We once saw a free performance by the Flying
Karamazov Brothers there. All of the stores. Visiting offices there for
various reasons. It was always one of those places that was just taken
for granted as being a part of life in the City.

I know that in recent years my husband passed through there
countless times, using the PATH train en route to the World Financial
Center.

R.I.P. to a vital part of New York City life. And to everyone who
perished in today's unforgivable acts of terrorism.

September 11, 2001 - A Day Which Will Live in Infamy
JonathanArcher
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 618
(9/11/01 9:41:27 pm)
Reply

Re: World Trade Center Memories

It will really hit me the first time I go over the Whitestone, and it will no
longer be there.

"Oh, I know Hamlet, and what he might say with irony, I say with
conviction:"
LEFTFIELD
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 2910
(9/11/01 10:10:25 pm)
Reply

Re: World Trade Center Memories

The WTC buildings were never my favorites.
I know jack about architecture, but still always preferred to art-deco
uniqueness of the Empire State Building to the boxy squareness of
the WTC towers.

But they were still impressive.
As you look downtown, most of the major avenues converge directly
toward the WTC as Mahattan Island narrows at its south end. As you
walk southbound, as I did this morning to enjoy the nice weather,
those towers rise out of the focal vanishing point of these avenues
like Emerald City at the end of the yellow brick road. They so
dominated the financial district skyline, dwarfing even 40 & 50 story
buildings, that their absence is going to make that view look like
something was left out - as if you were looking at a novelty painting.

My office has a roof-top (11th floor) outdoor patio/cafeteria that looks
directly south from barely a mile away.
That view, which I've seen a million times over the last 2+ years that
I've been in SOHO, will look like some sort of cruel joke now.

Encourage the impractical and improbable, without bias.
Gregory Gewirtz
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 559
(9/11/01 10:14:59 pm)
Reply
The former Twin Towers

I never viewed the observation deck, but went to the restaurant at the
top once, and went to the shopping concourse underneath many
times.

As someone who just started dorming in the East Village two weeks
ago, I got to see a lot of those magnificent buildings. They used to be
the jewel of the skyline, besdies holding vital functions in our financial
district.

I can't imagine the gaping hole where those buildings were.
gmet
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 809
(9/11/01 10:20:54 pm)
Reply
Re: The former Twin Towers

Parents took me for my first visit in 76' I believe during bi-centennial.
went to obs. deck on many field trips and outings with friends. Took
my wife there on one of our first dates to lounge on top. Have worked
in the towers a few times over the years also. Pray for the lost. I still
can't believe it came down.

Edited by: gmet at: 9/11/01 10:29:42 pm
Thirteen
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 2003
(9/11/01 10:26:25 pm)
Reply

Re: World Trade Center Memories

New Year's Eve, 1991, a couple of friends and I waited in line forever
and rode up to the observation deck, looking down on the world,
looking forward to joining the revelers in Time's Square. It was one big
party, and we were just 20, wrapped up in ourselves and the idea of
having a good time.

A little over a year later, the place was bombed, but they couldn't
bring it down.

Just under a decade later, it's a heap of dust. And one of the guys
that was up there on the observation deck with me, the best man at
my wedding, is a helicopter pilot in the US Army. I don't know what his
status is tonight, but God help him anyway.

God help all of us, and care for those we lost.

Time won't lie so listen well
And try not to forget
RockinDoc
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 1074
(9/11/01 10:32:21 pm)
Reply

Re: The former Twin Towers

My wife, children, and I visited the observation deck of the WTC
during our recent visit to NYC for the Forum Picnic. We enjoyed the
magificent skyline on a clear saturday afternoon (8/11/2001). For all
its' magnificence, the WTC is replaceable. It is the tremendous loss of
lives that I truly mourn.

"For every survivor of the wickedness of man, whether your a black
man or a jew
People kill in Jesus name, he is not the one to blame
Cause even God weeps too." -- Eli
Jamblastx
Mets All-Star
Posts: 403
(9/11/01 11:19:32 pm)
Reply
WTC

I was in Manhattan as few weeks ago with my family in order to visit
the planetareum. My son (who is 7) wanted to go to the WTC and go
to the top to see the view but I had told him that we would go another
day since it was getting late in the day. I had a very hard time trying to
explain to him today that that day will never come.

I just went to windowsontheworld.com just to see the old friend that we
lost today and a shed I tear.
Bryan Hoch
Web Site Administrator
Posts: 677
(9/11/01 11:21:52 pm)
Reply
Re: World Trade Center Memories

I've never actually been to the World Trade Center... although my
grandma's apartment is just a few blocks away on the campus at NYU,
by Washington Square Park.

I have a picture in the photo album of standing on her sixth-floor
terrace at age five or six, wearing a green and white striped polo shirt
and a cereal-bowl haircut, in my grandpa's arms, pointing down the
street with a huge smile on my face as I looked at what had to be the
greatest buildings in this magnificent world.

That's my enduring image of those years, and it shines on me every
time I see them in the horizon... and a lot like my grandfather, they're
gone forever.

Edited by: Bryan Hoch at: 9/11/01 11:23:27 pm
SI Metman
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 1833
(9/11/01 11:29:24 pm)
Reply

Re: World Trade Center Memories

I remember looking out at the towers every day from my classroom in
my Brooklyn school when I was in the 4th and 5th grades. It seemed
that no matter where I was in the 5 boros, I always had a view of the
towers.

Miracles can happen, you just gotta believe. The Fat Lady is locked in
my closet.
SCold2001
Mets Starter
Posts: 88
(9/11/01 11:38:53 pm)
Reply
...

I was in school at the time...I was in shock...I felt the ground shake..It
was a terrible moment...
god bless...
meetthemets
Mets Veteran
Posts: 149
(9/12/01 9:56:44 am)
Reply

Re: ...

I was in your wonderful city one month ago yesterday. If this attack
had taken place on 8-11 at the same time my wife and I were atop the
observation deck from 8:30 to 10:00. The view of your city was breath
taking. We also stayed at the marriott WTC which I believe has alos
been destroyed. I wonder was the young girl serving my piazza at
sbarros at the top of the WTC at work. Was the guy who noticed my
southern accent on the elevator going to the top and after finding out
I was from Atlanta welcomed me to New York...was he at work ...I will
never know because I do not remember their faces and never knew
their names but I pray they are ok. I fell in love with your city not
because of its beauty and history and its overwhelming size ...but i fell
in love with the kindness of the people of new york who helped me get
on the right train and gave me directions when I was lost. god bless all
of america but especially the few friends I made in New york on august
11-13.

YGB!!! KTF!!!! LGM!!!! I hate when people from other boards come
to ours. B3 may you get a rash!!!!
justbec
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 2183
(9/12/01 10:05:21 am)
Reply

Re: ...

I remember being on the observation deck one time and the man that
climbed the building, George something, was there, signing the spot
where he stood.

I'll always remember looking out at the city from there and enjoying
bringing my out of state friends there. To watch their faces as they
stepped out on the deck.....

God Bless
Paulie Cee
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 2670
(9/12/01 10:08:28 am)
Reply

Re: ...

I went up to the observation deck with my friends right after the
second tower was completed in 1974. I remember the view was
breathtaking.

I remember promising my high school sweetheart that I would take her
to "Windows On The World" when school was over. I never did, but I
somewhere inside I still thought that somehow I'd like to keep that
promise someday.

And every day on my way to work I was never blase about seeing
these two towers loom right in front of me as I ascended the subway
steps. I'll miss seeing the tops clouded in mist on rainy days. I can't
even imagine not seeing them there when I return to work, whenver
that may be. It's going to be hard.

Wait 'til next owner!!
KC 62 to pres
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 1051
(9/12/01 10:22:58 am)
Reply

Re: ...

Frankly, I'm in too much of a shock to think of what it's
going be like not seeing the towers there for the first time.

My wife and I were reminiscing last night of how we once
brought our Mom's to Windows on the World for Mothers
Day brunch and how impressed they were.

Me and a good friend were also enrolled in Kevin Zraly's
famous wine course at Windows at the time of the first
attack. We finished the course in the weeks that followed
in various conference rooms instead of the restaurant.
We were a little afraid to continue, but like I said at the
time, "if they keep you from doing what you want, they've
won."

Now it's gone.

"It was obvious that the curve ball was my worst enemy, I didn't do too
well with the change-ups either"
JellyRoll2
Mets Veteran
Posts: 124
(9/12/01 10:24:32 am)
Reply

Re: ...

I'd never been to the top of the WTC. I was just down there about
three weeks ago with my mom, sister, and niece to enjoy a nice Friday
night out, see the building my sister worked at and just chill out. We
walked through Battery Park and had Krispy Kreme donuts at the
base of the towers. There was a Latin music concert going on in the
Plaza. We were fascinated by the Millenium Hotel across the street.

When I asked my niece if she'd ever been to the top of the towers she
said she hadn't but had been to the Empire State.
I told her I hadn't been to either one nor the top of the Statue of
Liberty.
"I look at it like, what's the hurry? They'll always be there. Not like
they're going anywhere." That was what I said. And now...
Bubba Sponge
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 2512
(9/12/01 10:29:15 am)
Reply

Re: ...

Mrs. Sponge has only lived in NYC for 18 months. Whenever she got
lost walking the small streets of lower downtown, she would call me on
her cell phone for directions. In typical fashion, I always ask "look
around...where is the World Trade Center?"

Flying into NYC from business trips, I always a made a point of
secruing a seat on the side of the plane that would give me the best
view of the NYC skyline. It was a great treat to be coming north and
seeing the Statue of Liberty, the WTC, and the ESB in a row. We'll
never see that again.

Baseball Mom
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 7681
(9/12/01 11:04:38 am)
Reply

Re: World Trade Center Memories

I know I started this thread, but I reserve my right to add to it.

My thoughts of the moment are of February 26th, 1993. That morning
was my son's briss. It was a crazy day, to say the least, and we had
some guests in our apartment throughout the day. But there were
times that we'd turn on the tv for our 3-year-old daughter, and kept
seeing news reports about the World Trade Center. I remember
hearing something in passing hypothesizing that a Con Ed
transformer blew up, and that sounded credible, so I turned my
attention back to the events of the day. By 4:00, it was time for Tiny
Toons, and Fox5 still had news on. By that time, more news was
filtering down, and we learned that it was a terrorist attack. So in my
own mind, I always associate my son's briss with that attack.

Yesterday morning I was watching cable, and then came to my study
and to my computer. AOL's popup screen mentioned terrorism at the
WTC. My first thoughts were why are they talking about this so
prominently 8 1/2 years later, and why is the picture wrong (they
showed a fire at the top of the building on a sunny day, not smoke at
the bottom on a grey February day). It took my brain several minutes
to assimilate what I was seeing.

Meanwhile, I just got off the phone with my friend in Manhattan.
Yesterday, when the tv was on and we were watching the fire before
the towers fell, my 5-year-old asked me whether that was our friends'
apartment building. I told him no, he went on playing, and I put on
Blues' Clues for him because why should he have to watch these
images? But I became hysterical and called my friends - my
8-year-old's godfather answered the phone, and I learned that they
were ok. This morning, his godmother phoned me. She is still stunned
over this - she said that the sight of people walking the streets
yesterday in tears was surreal, and that even today the sounds of
sirens rushing by day and night from all directions is beyond belief.
Something she never thought she would witness in her lifetime in our
City.

September 11, 2001 - A Day Which Will Live in Infamy
Bay Ridge Dave
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 957
(9/12/01 2:53:04 pm)
Reply
World Trade Center Memories

Took my wedding photos at World Financial Center, which is also in
shambles

My son's awe seeing the Twins for the first time a few months ago
during Children's Day...

All the friends and clients I made throughout the years. Friends and
clients that right now I do not know whether they are safe....

Always in awe, whether driving by or seeing it from a hill at Sunset
Park....

RIP World Trade Center 1973-2001.... :'(
JerseyShore
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 1500
(9/12/01 3:11:56 pm)
Reply

Re: World Trade Center Memories

In 1976 I had a chance to go with my family to observe the bicentenial
tall ships celebration form the restaraunt at the top of the Towers. I
chose not to go, wanted to spend time with my girlfriend. Both my
father( five years ago) and the towers are now gone. I think how nice
it would be to have them all back.

My daughters spent a wonderful afternoon with my sister at the
restaraunt. They won't go back to the city cause they are scared.

I spent many days in the finacial district with dad, and in other areas
around the city. Its hard to believe.

"but can he sing tiny bubbles with the same sense of self assuredness
coupled with a Liberace-like spirit of whimsy and magic"
Willets Point
Mets All-Star
Posts: 257
(9/12/01 3:38:23 pm)
Reply

Re: World Trade Center Memories

The World Trade Center opened the same year I was born. I never
saw the NYC skyline before the Twin Towers.

As I child, I would use my wooden building blocks to build my own
version of New York, with my World Trade Center towering a foot
above my head. I had a plastic King Kong toy I would put on top, in
tribute to the remake of King Kong.

And I have a photo I took 4 years ago from the Ellis Island ferry with a
sailboat positioned right in front of the towers.

I can't believe those massive buildings are gone. All those people.


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slugger1138
Mets Veteran
Posts: 114
(9/12/01 3:50:48 pm)
Reply

Re: World Trade Center Memories

i'll always remember cutting class in high school, hanging out on
chamber's street and smoking cigarettes gazing at the World Trade
Center. from that vantage point only the north tower was visible but it
was still a magnificent sight. or sitting in Global History Class and
staring out the window at the tower or at the statue of liberty.

I dug out my high school yearbook last night and in it there's a full
page photograph of lower manhattan with my school in the foreground
and the twin towers standing sentinel over the scene. i talked to some
of my former classmates as well, who remembered the bombing back
in 1993 and how the shockwaves from the blast were felt at the school,
fortunately I did not begin attending that school until the fall of 93.

every time my relatives from europe or australia would come for a visit,
we would take them to the observation deck as part of their sight
seeing tour. i must have been up there on 4 or 5 occasions from the
time I was 7 to the time I was 14.

i'm in abject shock, which is quickly turning to anger. tragic does not
even begin to suggest the magnitude of what occurred yesterday.
VenturaHighway
Mets Veteran
Posts: 149
(9/12/01 4:16:43 pm)
Reply

Re: World Trade Center Memories

Way back in 1986, I was fresh out of high school, and I accepted a
position as a nanny in New York. I had never been East, or traveled
very far from home for that matter, and I was awed by all of Manhattan
when I flew into Newark.
I remember the weekend I spent in the city, and taking the Circle Line
tour around the island. I took lots of pictures that day.
I remember seeing the Fourth of July spectacular fireworks lighting up
the night sky above the Statue of Liberty, and the World Trade
Center. It's also the summer I began my love affair with the Mets.
I took out my pictures of the Trade Center yesterday, and I just can't
believe the towers are gone.

I ain't afraid of ever losing faith in you. ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤

doc g
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 3156
(9/12/01 4:44:06 pm)
Reply | Edit

Re: World Trade Center Memories

WTC memories….where to begin? I worked in my father’s restaurants
on John Street and Maiden Lane in the late 1960s as the Towers were
being constructed, and I mainly worked on the street, delivering orders
all over lower Manhattan, getting an intimate knowledge of dozens of
office buildings in the area, hearing daily complaints about the
inconvenience of conducting business in a years-long construction
zone, but with everyone awestruck as the buildings neared completion,
My dad, a patient, gentle man, usually repeated a pat expression to
calm people down when they were irritated, “This’ll be a great
city…when they finally get it finished,” that I’m sure he first heard as a
young boy running errands himself—he worked as an office boy (from
age 9) on Wall Street. He died in 1970, around the time they finished
the first Tower, and when I got my job, three blocks from his last
restaurant, in 1990, I found (and find) myself thinking about him almost
every day, whenever I go out for lunch, or when I pass the subway
entrance he used to use, or especially when I’m momentarily
inconvenienced by some construction work (they’ve been rebuiilding
J&R Music World for the last year or two, for example), and I remember
his ironic comments about the ever-ongoing construction of a great
city. I’m sure I’ll be reminded of it many times to come over the years to
come.



ON EDIT: Mookie informs me that O. Henry's the originator of my dad's
pat expression. She asked me to thank you kind folks for your helpful
words yesterday, and I will pass along your hugs as well, JA. Bubba,
KC, YGB, it's never nice hearing you made your friends cry, but if I
had to, I'd rather do it that way than any other. Thanks.

"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by
incompetence." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

Edited by: doc g at: 9/12/01 10:09:42 pm
mrsmet
Mets All-Star
Posts: 268
(9/12/01 5:48:35 pm)
Reply
memories

I used to work at 55 Water Street, and my husband in Tower 2. We
met many times for lunch in the concourse, and my company.I had
serveral office Christmas parties and business lunches in Windows on
the World. I remember going up to Mike's office on the 62nd floor and
having my stomach turn in that express elevator. I'm looking at a
picture in a collage in my family room of Mike and me on the
observation deck, 1980. I just can' believe they're dust, along with all
those innocent souls trapped inside. Rest in peace.
YGB
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 4216
(9/12/01 6:12:05 pm)
Reply

Re: World Trade Center Memories

An odd thing about the WTC bombing was that as a strategic "target,"
it was almost completely meaningless.

Even during the Manhattan office space boom of recent years, the
towers weren't close to 100% occupancy (perhaps that's a good
thing). But it meant that the tenants there, aside from Morgan and a
few others you may have heard of, were mostly small businesses,
many of them Chinese and Korean start-up companies that located in
WTC office space in part because rents were relatively cheap due to a
lack of demand.

Not that this sick attack would have meaning under any circumstances,
but to mistake the tenants in these struggling buildings for a strategic
target is outrageous and all the more tragic.

Walkill Gaunce Fan Club
Baseball Mom
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 7703
(9/12/01 7:25:30 pm)
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Re: World Trade Center Memories

I'm adding another. So there.

In 1987, I worked for a year in the Empire State Building. Gorgeous
view. Come to think of it, the only really good thing about that job was
the view. But I digress.

I worked on the 49th floor, with an office with a southern view. On a
few occasions, D-Dad came in with his camera and took some photos
from there. I found the album with those photos today. Absolutely
beautiful shots of the downtown skyline. Some of them could have
been postcards - just magnificent.

I still can't believe it's gone. I will be a total wreck the first time we drive
to New York and they are not part of the view.

September 11, 2001 - A Day Which Will Live in Infamy
doc g
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 3159
(9/12/01 9:46:33 pm)
Reply | Edit

Re: World Trade Center Memories

Whenever I drive back home these days from spending time with my
daughters upstate, my first sight of the city is usually about five miles
after getting off the the Thruway on route 17 in New Jersey. At the
crest of a hill, the upper 3/4s of Manhattan's skyline suddenly comes
into view, and I think "Oz" every time. It will still be Oz-like when I make
that drive next week, but now I'm thinking it will be a much sadder,
heavier first thought to have. BTW, if you folks don't hear from me for
a few days, it's because I'm going upstate to see my kids for a few
days. My university is going to be closed all week long, and I can't do
any writing or anything, so that's the best use I can think of for myself
the next few days. I plan to be back early next week.

"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by
incompetence." -- Napoleon Bonaparte
JonathanArcher
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 623
(9/12/01 9:55:34 pm)
Reply

Re: World Trade Center Memories

Be well Doc - and give your kids some extra hugs.

"Oh, I know Hamlet, and what he might say with irony, I say with
conviction:"
Met Jim
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 1293
(9/12/01 11:01:06 pm)
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Re: World Trade Center Memories

From PA I travelled to the city many times to catch Mets games and
hang out at my college roomates house. We went into Manhattan
many times. Each time I had to drag him to the observation deck to be
on top of the world for that minute. It was the most spectacular view
and I could never get enough of it. When we were trying to get a game
plan together for the picnic I told my wife how much fun it would be to
go sightseeing and definitely go up in the WTC, she'd never been to
NYC before. We couldn't get there this year, and I can't believe that
would be my last chance to see that view ever again.

not worth my time, call me in March !
Mitch45
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 899
(9/12/01 11:31:33 pm)
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Memories are all that's left

My two favorite places to take relatives visting from out of town were
the roof of Tower 1 and the South Street Seaport. The view from
Tower 1 was amazing...on a clear day, you could see as far as the
Catskill Mountains...things were always so quiet and peaceful up
there, far above the bustling crowd below. It was like being in another
world.

Hard to believe that something that brought so much happiness and
pride to so many could come to so ignominious an end...


Duan
Mets All-Star
Posts: 327
(9/13/01 7:57:05 am)
Reply
Re: Memories are all that's left

My favourite memory of the world trade centre is when I took my then 9
year old brother to it. He was in NYC for four days in total; The whole
town just seems so enourmous to a child, but getting him to stand in
between then twin towers was such a kick, as he tried to fathom just
how high they were, and that there wasn't just one, but two of them.

cooby
Mets Starter
Posts: 69
(9/15/01 11:05:20 am)
Reply
Re: World Trade Center Memories

I can remember back when the Empire State Building was still the
tallest building in New York, but I remember reading about the towers
being built in our Weekly Readers at school.
It took a long time in my little kid head for it to register that the Empire
State Building was no longer the tallest!
Last year, when I took my son to NYC for the first time in his life, I
remember pointing out the WTC to him, but he doesn't remember it. I
wish he did.
oasisNoel
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 1060
(9/15/01 11:17:03 am)
Reply

Re: World Trade Center Memories

I live on the south shore of LI and we have a boat, so whenever we'd
be out on the water even if it was cloudy out you could always tell
where you were by looking west at the WTC towers and the Empire
State Building. Driving yesterday back from Jones Beach, its amazing
how empty it looks without those two landmarks there.

[Guest cooby]

Bret, this is great...

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

What a trip down memory lane. A day that should never be forgotten.

Thanks for the old archive, Bret.

[stevejrogers]

DocTee wrote: UMDB down?! Went to check some stats and got an error messgae-- here's hoping it's only fleeting (thats where I first learned of CPF by the way).

Back up as of this morning