Its Official - Baseball to Investigate Bonds

[MFS62]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2389391

Later

[Guest cooby]

My husband is reading that book

[metirish]

I really don't see the point of this , where do you stop, surely Clemens will be investigated, what about Bagwell, I just see a big can of worms being opened here.

[Guest cooby]

Yep

[Willets Point]

That Mitchell is a busy man. Negotiating peace in Northern Ireland, director of the Red Sox, chairman of Walt Disney Co. and now rooting out 'roids users.

[Zvon]

....and once they apply themselves and really start to dig its not going to be too hard to find stuff out.

Cripes, they already have Giambi gettin stuff thru the mail sent to his mothers house.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]I really don't see the point of this , where do you stop, surely Clemens will be investigated, what about Bagwell, I just see a big can of worms being opened here.

Surely there's a difference. Regarding Bags and Clemens, they have prima-facie evidence. In the Bonds case, they have a mountain of documentation handed to them.

[metirish]

Yes I understand that, but if you are going to do a proper invertigation then go after all of them.....plus this stuff was not illegal in the 90's......at least in baseball anyway.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]Yes I understand that, but if you are going to do a proper invertigation then go after all of them....

But you say you understand that there's a difference.

And MLB has trouble assume the current stance MLB is assuming regarding steroids, while Barry Bonds shatters records with a body that --- according to the evidence tossed in their lap, publicly and embarrassingly -- was illegally made. "Waddaya mean I'm suspended? You got that guy redhanded (supposedly) and he's on TV every night remaking the record book."

]plus this stuff was not illegal in the 90's......at least in baseball anyway.

Yes it was, and the evidence against him post-dates the nineties.

Remeber also that MLB is under enormous pressure from Congress --- a Congress that allows them to operate under uniquely beneficial circumstances, a largess which can be revoked at any time.

[metirish]

I see what you are saying and I agree, Ruth played in an era that did not include some of the best players because they were not allowed to play....I hate that I defend Bonds but I feel he is being treated differently than others, like McGwire and Giambi....

[Zvon]

metirish wrote: ....I hate that I defend Bonds but I feel he is being treated differently than others, like McGwire and Giambi....

maybe for now.

They will soon all be in the same boat along with a number of other players, some more well known that others.

[Guest Rotblatt]

A good article on public perception of Bonds from USA Today.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

]"I've done some f——- up things, I admit it," Bonds said Friday at the Giants spring training facility. "We all make mistakes in life. But there's only one perfect person in our society, and they put him on a cross. For what? For being kind? For loving people?"

You know, aside from some loopy self-pity here, I'm not even sure what point he thinks he's making. It don't pay to strive for perfection? No matter how hard you try, you'll get your unfair critics? It's lonely at the top? Only Jesus has suffered more than I?

[Guest Edgy DC]

]"White America doesn't want him to (pass) Babe Ruth and is doing everything they can to stop him," says Leonard Moore, director of African and African-American Studies at Louisiana State University. "America hasn't had a white hope since the retirement of (NBA star) Larry Bird, and once Bonds passes Ruth, there's nothing that will make (Ruth) unique, and they're scared. And I'm scared for Bonds. "I think what he'll go through will be 100 times worse than what Aaron went through" when he surpassed Ruth in 1974. "I pray for him every night."

The folks who get directorships and chairs.

[Guest sharpie]

If Bonds is punished then Sheffield and Giambi have to be too.

Heh heh.

[Elster88]

I agree - the whites are trying to keep a black ballplayer from passing Babe Ruth's record. Because it's never happened before.

[metirish]

The wisdom of Rickey Henderson.

] "If he hit the ball and accomplished what he accomplished, I think he deserves [the record]. A lot of players did a lot of steroids. I think it's just the era, the time. "There wasn't no one to stop it. There wasn't no say-so that it wasn't right or wasn't legal. To me, it was making baseball look good. And maybe they just turned their head."

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-sphey304681202mar30,0,2358160.column?coll=ny-sports-headlines

[Elster88]

He said "I"? I'm disillusioned.

[soupcan]

]"America hasn't had a white hope since the retirement of (NBA star) Larry Bird, and once Bonds passes Ruth, there's nothing that will make (Ruth) unique, and they're scared. And I'm scared for Bonds..

So many things here -

Michael Jordan & Tiger Woods aren't embraced by 'White America'?

Ruth will always be legendary. Hell, he hasn't held that record for 30 years!

I'm scared? The only fear I have is to not be able to feed or shelter my family. I don't think Barry Bonds' steroid-laden pursuit of baseball's all-time home run record will have a hell of a lot of effect on that.

No sir I'm not scared, I just don't particularly care for cheaters.

[MFS62]

Willets Point wrote: That Mitchell is a busy man. Negotiating peace in Northern Ireland, director of the Red Sox, chairman of Walt Disney Co. and now rooting out 'roids users.

And, more importantly, he's my almost-look-alike.

Steve Somers said on his show last night that this is NOT a racial thing, it is about honesty and integrity. He added (my paraphrasing) that while much of the negative reaction Aaron got when chasing Ruth, and Sosa got while contesting McGwire for the single season record, was racist, this is not.

I agree. And Mr. Moore doesn't know either basebal history or Barroid if he says it is.

Later

[metirish]

Like most things race becomes an issue, of course there are white Americans that don't want Bonds to break any record but I imagine it has more to do with Bonds being an alleged wanker than him being a Black man, I think we can expect to hear more about race as this continues, people like Charles Barkley will no doubt bring that up.

[dinosaur jesus]

Bring 'em all down, all the big cheaters, white and black, nice guys and assholes. They couldn't call it racism then.

In my ideal nonracist world, Clemens would be as vilified as Bonds. (Which means that maybe this forum is my ideal world.)

[Guest silverdsl]

sharpie wrote: If Bonds is punished then Sheffield and Giambi have to be too. Heh heh.

Yes, they must be, says even the Yankee fan. In fact that would be my issue with this investigation if Bonds is the only one singled out. The book contains material related to Giambi, much of which was likely already known to MLB, but new information about Sheffield that he shot himself up with steroids and HGH. I don't see how they could justify going after Bonds but not Sheffield or Giambi.

That said, what exactly is MLB going to do at the conclusion of this investigation? And how long is it going to take? I'd guess that Mitchell won't be able to wrap this up in just a few months so Bonds might be retired before there is a final report.

[metirish]

From what I am reading there will NOT be any suspensions , and of course the players union would fight any and probably win.

[Willets Point]

dinosaur jesus wrote: In my ideal nonracist world, Clemens would be as vilified as Bonds.

I do my part to villify Clemens regularly. Actually, I've never had much a problem with Bonds other than he's a likely cheater. Clemens I've got problems with. Lots of 'em.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Swollen heads need to roll before baseball is considered cleaned up.

I don't really get the reasoning here. If every single violator of a law is not convicted and given a precisely equal sentence, then the law should be taken off the books? Have I gone completely insane here?

[MFS62]

Bret Sabermetric wrote: I don't really get the reasoning here. If every single violator of a law is not convicted and given a precisely equal sentence, then the law should be taken off the books?

(Putting on best Mr. Spock voice)
Your conclusion is logical.

Later

[Elster88]

metirish wrote: Like most things race becomes an issue, of course there are white Americans that don't want Bonds to break any record but I imagine it has more to do with Bonds being an alleged wanker than him being a Black man, I think we can expect to hear more about race as this continues, people like Charles Barkley will no doubt bring that up.

What the....? Charles Barkley?

[metirish]

Not sure why I cited him, he does speak out on issues of race though.

[Centerfield]

I don't like when people try to characterize the debate as whether race is the reason, or whether race is not the reason. For some reason, people, like the quoted LSU professor, don't seem to entertain the notion that there are shades of gray between their black and white stances (no pun intended).

Is race the reason Bonds is scrutinized? Probably not. Is race a factor? I would guess yes. The relevant question should be how much of a factor it is. And I would guess that answer varies depending on who, what and when.

That being said, I would guess his personality is probably the bigger factor. I have little doubt that if Bonds were as accessible and fair with the media as Michael Jordan, he would not be under this type of microscope. I doubt that if he wore a big smile and said goofy things like Shaquille O'Neal, he would be treated the way he's treated now. Does this mean black athletes have to be happy-types to gain acceptance? (I think we already had this thread) What if Bonds had been white and surly? I honestly don't know the answer to these questions.

What I do know is that to say what Bonds is going through will be 100 times worse than Aaron is just silly. Aaron was a black athlete in the South, thirty years ago. There's just no comparison. I don't know why people say things like this and undermine their credibility.

And praying for Barry Bonds every night? Please.