Al Leiter Retires.

[metirish]

I just heard on the news that Leiter retired after getting one out in a game today.....

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah I think that ws pretty much a planned exit.

The Yanx didn't even have a legit job opening for him even if he pitched well. Maybe he was hoping to impress in ST as an audition for some place else - but where exactly was he going to go anyway?

But now I guess since he officially retired as a Yanqui, the number retiring ceremony will be scheduled for later this year.

[metirish]

I bet he moves straight to the YES booth.

[Guest cooby]

metirish wrote: I just heard on the news that Leiter retired after getting one out in a game today.....

How many hours did that take?

[soupcan]

Good riddance.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Willets isn't done with him yet.

[Willets Point]

What-huh?

[Willets Point]

Oh wait a minute I got it now. Staring me in the face when I view my post.

You know something, I totally forgot about that series of Being Mets Player So & So memories threads. I can't even remember what the last one I did or how many I must have skipped. I suck.

So let me do Leiter.

First memory of Al is from the 1997 World Series where I was convinced he looked like this guy I worked with named Ron. January 1998 I'm traveling around Ireland and I have 30 minutes in a cybercafe. After checking my emails & such I have a few minutes left and look at Metsonline and in the forum I see a post that says "Hey, we got Al Leiter!" So now the Mets have a top starter from World Series champions and he turns out pretty good. I 1999 he helps the Mets into the playoffs. He pitches brilliantly the wild card playoff against Cincinnatti, but later trashes the diner against Atlanta (tip o' the pen to Edgy). Somewhere in the post-season of 1999 or 2000 a guy on the radio says "Al Leiter will have to be Al Leiter if the Mets are to win this series." To this day my wife brings up "Leiter being Leiter" anytime his name comes up. As the Mets descend from playoff team to cellar dweller, Al goes with them and annoys the hell out of Mets fans by working long counts on every batter. It was a relief when he finally left the team, but I still have soft part in my heart for Al Leiter when he was Al Leiter from 1998-2001.

[Guest KC]

We have to re-rank every Mets season, there's no way Al Leiter was the
12th best Met player ever.

[Guest vtmet]

12th best pitcher would even be questionable, let alone 12th best player...

[MFS62]

soupcan wrote: Good riddance.

Yep.
He hadn't retired anyone else for a few years.

Later

[Guest vtmet]

speaking of old dried up lefties that should have been put out to pasture years ago...has Johnnie Tomato Franco officially called it quits yet? Or is still trying to stick around long enough to give up Barry Bonds HR to break Hank Aaron's record? He needs someway into the record books, it put Al Downing into the record books...it would probably work for Franco as well...

[Guest Edgy DC]

Let's get away from "best" and work with "most accomplished" which is really what we're out to rank. I don't care personally, because I didn't do all the rankings (though I did rank him top Met performer in 1998, I think), and I know thet system is flawed, but who are the 12 more accomplished pitchers?

[Guest sharpie]

I'm sure he must have retired. He coached, and didn't play, for Italy in the WBC.

[Elster88]

Willets Point wrote: First memory of Al is from the 1997 World Series where I was convinced he looked like this guy I worked with named Ron. January

When I first skimmed through I thought this said "this guy I worked with named Ron Jeremy".

[Elster88]

vtmet wrote: speaking of old dried up lefties that should have been put out to pasture years ago...has Johnnie Tomato Franco officially called it quits yet?

What is the point of calling him "Tomato"? Are you out to coin new nicknames, too?

[Guest silverdsl]

I've been a fan of Leiter's long before he came back to the Yankees last season. While his best years were clearly well behind him Leiter did pitch well for the Yankees last season when they really needed him to in that one game against the Red Sox. What I thought was pretty neat was that it was said yesterday that Leiter was the first pitcher in MLB history to defeat all 30 teams. That's a kind of cool accomplishment to go with all his other achievements - two-time All-star, part of two WS winning teams, helped the Mets to their WS appearance. I've also long admired Leiter for how much charitable work he's done. I know a lot of Mets are very down on Leiter but he has always seemed like a pretty good guy to me - he was one of the only Yankees to sign an autograph for my cousin at a game last season. I hope he becomes part of the YES broadcast team.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I still think Leiter's a good guy.

[Guest KC]

Edge, jeez ... the system ain't all that flawed. It's just tough sometimes in
some cases to look at player x and say he was the 12th most accomplished
Mets player of all time standing - just looking at the list and all.

I'm just sayin'.

[Frayed Knot]

Al was just fine for the majority of his time as a Met and was terrific for a significant chunk of it.

[MFS62]

Wins:
Tom Seaver 198
Dwight Gooden 157
Jerry Koosman 140
Ron Darling 99
Sid Fernandez 98
Al Leiter 95

Strikeouts:
Tom Seaver 2541
Dwight Gooden 1875
Jerry Koosman 1799
Sid Fernandez 1449
David Cone 1172
Ron Darling 1148
Al Leiter 1106

Starts:
Tom Seaver 395
Jerry Koosman 346
Dwight Gooden 303
Sid Fernandez 250
Ron Darling 241
Al Leiter 213

[Frayed Knot]

And on the CPF list, the only winning-er pitcher that's behind Al is Darling (and just barely) while the only other person mentioned on any of those 3 lists who's also behind him is Cone (and, again, not by much).

[Elster88]

....and with that, vtmet's assertion is blown to pieces.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

So that projects Leiter as the Mets' 6th best starting pitcher (or 7th, depending on where Coney ranks in the two categories he's not listed in). factor in relievers (Jesse and Tug have to rank pretty high, I'd say) and then such hitters as Piazza, Strawberry, Hernandez, Carter, Alfonzo, Cleon, and 12th starts to look like a reach.

[metirish]

]What is the point of calling him "Tomato"? Are you out to coin new nicknames, too?

I assume because Franco used to have a tomato patch in the bullpen.

[Elster88]

12th may be a bit high, but the assertions I'm talking about are

]12th best pitcher would even be questionable, let alone 12th best player...

Al's in the top 12 for pitchers, and 12th player is not nearly as ridiculous as implied here.

[Vic Sage]

Ranking Lieter as the #6 pitcher, and #12 overall, seem like reasonable projections to me, give or take a few slots. I could see him as low as 8th pitcher, and down to 15th overall, but beyond that, i think peeps are just projecting their own dislike into their evaluation of Al's Met career.

And why people dislike Al is beyond me. He's probably the only Republican I've liked since reading about Teddy Roosevelt and Abe Lincoln.

He came up as a MFY, so i don't fault him for "returning home" as it were. The fact that we got better seasons out of him than the Yanks ever did takes the sting out it for me.

[Frayed Knot]

Bret Sabermetric wrote: So that projects Leiter as the Mets' 6th best starting pitcher (or 7th, depending on where Coney ranks in the two categories he's not listed in).

5th best by our count - Darling just falls short. Maybe that's a flaw in our system whereas Ronnie boy got lower scores as aresult of having better & higher-scoring teammates although our rules do account for that somewhat.

]factor in relievers (Jesse and Tug have to rank pretty high, I'd say)

But not high enough - although Franco is.
And it's funny how people forget how trashed Jesse was in NYM circles at the time. Time wounds all heels I guess.

]and then such hitters as Piazza, Strawberry, Hernandez, Carter, Alfonzo, Cleon, and 12th starts to look like a reach

Yes, Yes, No, No, Yes, and Yes
Remember that this list has a cumulative score to it so longevity factors into things big time. Carter had only about 3 good NYM years and is considerably lower than most suppose. Cone's in the same boat.

Our TV announcers occupy the two slots right behind Senator Al.

[Guest sharpie]

I'm with Vic. It was hard watching him in his last season or two with the Mets but he's a decent guy who was always trying his best even as his talent was slipping away from him. I like to think that we got most of his best years and he's ultimately more of a Met than he is a Yankee, Blue Jay or Marlin.

[seawolf17]

Leiter had seven solid, productive seasons, starting 30 games a year and averaging 13-14 wins per season. He also had three second-place finishes and one third-place finish, so the weighting helps boost his total.

Look who's behind Leiter:

13 Hernandez - Four good seasons, one WS, one NLCS.
14 Darling - Six good seasons, one WS, one NLCS.
15 McGraw - Five good seasons, one WS, one NLCS.
16 Wilson - Six good seasons, one WS, one NLCS.
17 Grote - Eight seasons as an everyday catcher, but not a terribly impressive statistical career. One WS, one NLCS.
18 McReynolds - Five good seasons, one NLCS.
19 Matlack - Five good seasons, one NLCS.
20 Staub - Three good seasons, then basically PH duty.
21 Cone - Five good seasons, one NLCS.
22 Harrelson - Career Met high is 42 RBI.
23 Orosco - Five seasons as half a closer, one memorable thrown glove.
24 Benitez - Five good -- if star-crossed -- seasons as a closer.
25 Agee - Two great seasons, two good seasons, one WS.

I think Al Leiter might just be correct right where he is.