Mets get LoDuca

[nymr83]

hey, i'm all for admitting at the end of the year that i was wrong about a player, but that doesn't mean i won't bash him now.

[Frayed Knot]

Sweeny Murti - appearing on Francesa's 'Mike'd Up' show from the site of the Winter Meetings in Dallas - suggested that there may also be money changing hands on this one.
If true, it could be why there's no official announcement of it from either of the involved parties since commissioner approval is needed if the dollar figure is over a certain amount.

Depending on the amount it might help ease the sting a bit, plus push the price tag well below that of the two FAs.

[Guest cleonjones11]

He can catch. He is cheap 2 years 6.5 each. Prospects like Gaby Hernandez are a dime a dozen. Loduca will catch 120 games and costs less than Bengie Molina (inferior IMHO) and Ramon Hernandez equal..GREAT TRADE...Just don't mess with Lastings Milledge though he'll be a Red Sock next week. Now thats a trade for Manny I do not like.

[TransMonk]

I love the LoDuca trade:

a) he's 2-4 million dollars cheaper than Hernandez or Molina
he's consistent with his average at .285 for his career while hitting .283 last year
c) he is a great clubhouse guy and a Brooklyn native
d) he has backed up the guy he's replacing at the past 3 All Star games
e) upgrade from having to go with Ramon Castro
f) certainly a defensive upgrade from Piazza

I don't know how people can't be happy with this trade...we are getting another All Star added to the line up for a prospect that may or may not have impacted the team 3 years from now.

[nymr83]

i'll answer point by point, i'm shocked anyone can like this trade...

TransMonk wrote: a) he's 2-4 million dollars cheaper than Hernandez or Molina

he's cheaper for a reason, that reason being he's not as good.

TransMonk wrote: he's consistent with his average at .285 for his career while hitting .283 last year

haven't we learned by now that a .280 batting average with poor obp and slg doesnt make for a good hitter?

TransMonk wrote: c) he is a great clubhouse guy and a Brooklyn native

i don't care where he's from, it wont help him hit.
as for being a great clubhouse guy, they say that about everyone until the team is losing and then they are all called "clubhouse cancers".

TransMonk wrote: d) he has backed up the guy he's replacing at the past 3 All Star games

joe girardi made the all star game one year, don't put too much stock in who makes that team.

TransMonk wrote: I e) upgrade from having to go with Ramon Castro

resigning Mike Piazza would be a larger upgrade, Just because something is an upgrade doesn't make it a smart move.

TransMonk wrote: I f) certainly a defensive upgrade from Piazza

Really? Loduca seems to be throwing guys out at similiar rates to Piazza, and Piazza always had a good reputation for doing the other things well.

TransMonk wrote: I don't know how people can't be happy with this trade...we are getting another All Star added to the line up for a prospect that may or may not have impacted the team 3 years from now.

i don't know how you CAN be happy.
i don't care if we're getting a guy with an all-star appearence, his stats help win champioships not the all-star jerseys in his closet.
whether or not Gaby Hernandez would have "impacted the team" is hardly the point, he had value as a future trading chip which has now been wasted on a guy that i wouldn't have liked even if he came as a throw in in the Delgdo trade (which btw he should have if we wanted him)

[duan]

the other thing I'm a little worried about is that with the Mets OUT of the market there's little impetus to drive the price of Molina & Hernandez up. Who's looking for a catcher among the 'big' spenders?

None of the AL East money, none of the NL East money, not the Cards/Cubs in the NL Central, the ChiSox, Twins or Indians in the AL Central or the Dodgers (Navarro looks like a decent option) and Giants in the NL West, or the Mariners, A's or Angels (who'll take the younger Molina plus Josh Paul if Bengie doesn't hang around!)

So who's gonna pay Ramon Hernandez $8 million for 3 years????

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

"I'm excited," said Lo Duca, who hadn't heard anything official about a trade yet. "It's a team I grew up liking. They were my favorite team and I respect Mr. (Fred) Wilpon, and I respect Omar and Willie Randolph. They've put together a great ballclub. It's exciting to go to New York."

I think maybe we did become the MFYs

[Guest sharpie]

Lo Duca got hurt in August and his numbers were terrible after he came back (the Marlins were in the race or he would've been shut down). He was having a pretty good year until then. He was .309/.363/.408 on August 6 when he got hurt, after that his numbers tumbled. I'm worried about his health as he has missed significant time in each of the last 3 seasons but I'd rather have him than Bengie (tho' not as much as Ramon).

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think a tendency to miss games is something teams are concerned about with their own players, but not with players they acquire. Call it Sandy Alomar Syndrome.

]he's cheaper for a reason, that reason being he's not as good.

That's easy to say but not entirely true. Sometimes a player is cheaper because he was signed under different circumstances.

[Elster88]

Is there anyone that likes the LoDuca trade but doesn't like the Delgado trade? Because I think that would make my head explode.

[MFS62]

I'd like to know who the "other" minor league pitcher is.


Later

[Valadius]

I'd also like to know why the hell we're sending them two prospects when they're desperate to move him.

[Centerfield]

Let's hope that Sweeney's report is correct and there is money changing hands. That would certainly make the trade make a little more sense.

In any case, if LoDuca is our catcher for next year, like abogdan said, there is some pressure on the Mets now to upgrade offensively either at RF or at 2B.

Batting LoDuca, Nady, Matsui, Pitcher in slots 6-9 means we're not going to get a lot of runs from the bottom of our order.

[soupcan]

Couldn't Piazza have been re-signed for one year at maybe $5 mil?

The LoDuca and Piazza numbers are similar and Piazza had 19 HRs last year.

Unless Omar is still wheeling and dealing and LoDuca is going to be involved in another trade I'm not sure I understand what he's doing here.

[Guest Rotblatt]

I actually don't hate this trade. I don't think it was good by any means, but I also don't think it was terrible (I voted no opinion).

Lo Duca (.714 OPS in 2005, career OPS+ of 102) will be 35 in the final year of his contract, but we'll probably save at least $1M per year over the next two by signing him rather than Hernandez (30, .772 OPS, 97 OPS+) or Molina (32, .743 OPS, 84 OPS+). We'll also be rid of him sooner than we would either of those two by at least a year.

Lo Duca will probably be an average catcher for us, and we have a competent backup in Castro should he be injured.

Of course, I'd be happiest if we sent Lo Duca to Arizona for Vazquez, but even if we're stuck with him, I think it's okay.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Duan has a good point, that the Mets could have let the market come to them. One shopper he does overlook, though, is Colarado, who can come up with money when they want.to.

[Valadius]

And after the miserable J.D. Closser experiment this year, I think the Rockies are in the market for a catcher.

[Guest sharpie]

Other NL East catchers:

Atl: Estrada (with McCann in the wings)
Phi: Lieberthal
Fla: Treanor
Was: Schneider

I'll take my chances with Lo Duca.

[smg58]

Don't be surprised if Estrada changes locales this week.

The key to whether this was a good deal or not depends on three things:
1. Who's the other prospect
2. Are the Marlins eating some money
3. How much more money will Molina and Hernandez get

LoDuca is not terrible but not great, either. It may ultimately boil down to how much money you think a prospect is worth.

What is the rule on losing draft picks when obtaining free agents?

[Valadius]

You know, the comment he made about Arizona being his first choice is very very suspicious...

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

Wow, alot of hate for "Lo Duke Of Flushing" ™

Maybe I should be skeptical, seems like sports radio here in NY like the deal

Sure its not the same as the last ex-Dodger catcher by way of Miami, and its possible we have a post-97 Hundley on our hands, but still doesn't seem like that bad of a move

Steve

[Frayed Knot]

"What is the rule on losing draft picks when obtaining free agents?"

The team that signs a player loses a draft pick to the team that loses him conditional on:
- the team needs to offer arbitration to the player in order to gain the picks ... the idea being that you shouldn't get credit for a guy you don't demonstrate any interest in keeping. Hence we almost certainly will NOT get picks for Piazza leaving because the team doesn't want to expose themselves to a huge 1-year salary by offering him arbitration. We might, however, go that route with Looper.
- the "Type" of player being lost. Players are ranked as type 'A', 'B', or 'C' players depending on their stats over the previous 2 seasons. The higher the type, the better the pick you get.


FA compensation rules and lists: http://cybermessageboard.ehost.com/getalife/viewtopic.php?t=1768

[Zvon]

Ive read this as both confirmed and pending today, from different sources.

I guess its pretty much a done deal.

DeLuca was at the bottom of my list, but he was on it.

Hes a good catcher.

Im surprised this went down before the winter meetings.
I figured Omar was gonna wait it out with Molina and Hernandez.

Well,...you snooze,...you loose.
Omar aint waitin.

[Guest rpackrat]

Lo Duca is a better than average offensive catcher and an average defender. His OPS was depressed not only by his August injury, but also by playing in the worst hitter's park in the league. He will be just fine hitting in the 7 spot. Whether or not Omar overpaid for him is another question, but Lo Duca will be just fine as the Mets catcher for the next 2 years.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Of Met catchers acquired in lopsided trades, the early verdict on Lo Duca for Gaby Hernandez likely ranks it behind Tom Parsons for Grote; Brooks, Winningham, Youmans, Fitzgerald foir Carter; and Preston Wilson & friends for Piazza.

[Guest Edgy DC]

It's even behind Charlie O'Brien and Kevin Carmody traded for Kevin Brown and Julio Machado, isn't it?

Tim Drummond and Mackey Sasser for Randy Milligan and Scott Henion?

We have history of winning these things, don't we? I didn't think there was a type of trade the Mets would have a history of winning.

[Guest sharpie]

Hundley for Cedeno/Charles Johnson; Charles Johnson for Benitez, both of those turned out well.

[Zvon]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Of Met catchers acquired in lopsided trades, the early verdict on Lo Duca for Gaby Hernandez likely ranks it behind Tom Parsons for Grote; Brooks, Winningham, Youmans, Fitzgerald foir Carter; and Preston Wilson & friends for Piazza.

LOL@Dick^
I assume thats a joke, anyway.
I love the trade itself.
Havent heard who the second minor leaguer is yet, but the name Gaby and Hernandez just never seemed to go together. Read he's a top prospect of ours out of Miami. That means both players are goin home.
LoDuca born in NYC.

I saw Lo Duca make some great plays for the Dodgers around the turn of the century. I have nothing on how he handles pitchers or baserunners.
He should fill that gap for a season or two. He's steady.

[Valadius]

Preston Wilson, Geoff Goetz, and Ed Yarnall for Mike Piazza was one of Steve Phillips' finest moves.

[Valadius]

The deal has been finalized.