White Sox-Angels ALCS Thread

[Willets Point]

The Onion's News in Brief are usually funnier than the full-length articles.

[seawolf17]

This is hysterical.

]Antonio Alfonseca Once Again Leads Major-League Relievers In Fingers MIAMI�Florida Marlins pitcher Antonio Alfonseca dominated the MLB in appendages for the ninth straight year, finishing the 2005 season with a league-leading 12 fingers. Alfonseca, who made his debut with the Marlins in 1997 and wasted no time making this particular statistical category his own, led the NL for almost the entire season, only falling into a close second during an unusual two-week period in mid-August. Alfonseca's performance will trigger a $1 million bonus, as the Marlins signed him to an incentive-laden, oft-criticized, finger-enumeration-based contract. "Antonio has been through a lot this season, including some elbow problems and a trip to the DL," manager Jack McKeon said. "But in the end, he just went out there and had a lot of fingers." There was once again a tie for second place behind Alfonseca, with 214 pitchers amassing 10 fingers each, followed by Bob Wickman, who finished last with 9.7.

[Zvon]

I see I put this in the wrong thread, so Il reproduce it here:


To my eye it bounced up, but within the catchers glove. It hit the leather pocket and not the ground, and bounced off the ground under the leather and up into the heart of the glove.
It was a terrible call, especially since the ump did ring him up.
In a play like that the ump should indicate a strikeout and the ball is in play, in that order.
So he should have rung him up and then waved safe, as in fair ball, in play.

This and the call on Cano in the Yankee series can undermine a game and sometimes a series. Cano should not have been called out, imo, and I was really surprised there wasnt a bigger argument mounted there.
That was a crucial play in a crucial inning at a crucial time.

[Frayed Knot]

The Cano call was absolutely correct and I'm surprised at how much talk there's been about this -- even from non-NYY fans.
He was running with his right foot on the fair side of the baseline the entire way down the line (at least 3 full strides worth). I mean if he was at least straddling the line a bit maybe he'd get away with it but that call was a no-brainer IMO.
The throw doesn't need to hit him to affect the play.

[Zvon]

Frayed Knot wrote: The Cano call was absolutely correct and I'm surprised at how much talk there's been about this -- even from non-NYY fans. He was running with his right foot on the fair side of the baseline the entire way down the line (at least 3 full strides worth). I mean if he was at least straddling the line a bit maybe he'd get away with it but that call was a no-brainer IMO. The throw doesn't need to hit him to affect the play.

id have to get a closer look at the footage.
i only saw what they showed as it happened.

I thought his right foot caught line on every stride but one. It was a wierd call to make considering it wasnt an obvious amount (off the line) and it was at such a crucial time. No matter the baseline issue, that throw doesnt get caught at 1st.

[Frayed Knot]

Well of course the rule is that you're supposed to run entirely in "the lane"; iow, with both feet on the foul side of the line.
So even if Cano's foot was touching the line every now and then he's still technically wrong. That both feet spent several strides on the fair side of the line is what made the call so obvious to me (and apparently to Joe West).
The idea that the throw wasn't good anyway shouldn't enter into it - especially keeping in mind that the reason for the rule is so that the runner won't affect the throw and/or block the 1st baseman's view.
And I'm certainly not buying the argument (put forth from several sources) that the 'importance of this game' means you somehow get more lax on a call like this. MFY fans have this tendancy to think that games affecting their possible ouster from the playoffs are somehow more parmount than those played by mere mortals.


If I were going to cry about a call I'd go to the one where Cano jumped off the base a partial second too soon on the force play. That there was no advantage to be gained there (he wasn't leaving early so as to turn a DP) and he was only trying to clear the base for the oncoming runner seems much better justification for letting the letter of the law slide.
It's surprising to me that more people seem to have complaints about the play at 1st than about the one at 2nd.

[Centerfield]

Doug Eddings, the ALCS umpire, regrets not making a stronger call.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2005/news/story?id=2190652

I don't know if anyone saw the interview, but Eddings seems like a genuinely nice guy....certainly nicer than the director of umpiring or whatever bigwig that was sitting out there with him. I feel bad for the guy...and I say it's about time MLB requires umps to signal or call "No Catch".

[Willets Point]

="Frayed Knot"] And I'm certainly not buying the argument (put forth from several sources) that the 'importance of this game' means you somehow get more lax on a call like this.

I agree, it's like the unspoke rule about hockey refs not calling penalties in overtime of playoff games. Gutless.

[Centerfield]

People complain more because the baseline play occurred in Game 5 where the Yanks were threatening to come back. The second base play resulted in tack-on runs in a game most MFY fans had written off as a loss. Of course, you're absolutely right...and that play at second base was by far the more questionable call. I mean, considering the "neighborhood" standard normally applied around second base (esp. on DP's where there is actually an advantage to be gained) it's that much more surprising. But to recognize that, MFY fans would need to be intelligent and, well....

This is what's so cool about baseball. I've been watching this game for 20+ years...and in the span of a month or two, I've seen three plays (the Cameron transfer ruled no catch, the Cano 2nd base play, and the Pierzynski/Paul 3rd Strike) that I have never seen before.

[Frayed Knot]

The argument for a more lax style of ump/ref-ing in crucial situations has always been that they should "let them play" and "not decide the game with a call".
But hell, you do that and instead of deciding the game with a call you're helping to decide the game with a NON call -- which is even worse since it benefits the team that was skirting the rules.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Just about every World Cup overtime soccer game that doesn't go to a penalty kickoff ends with a foul call and a penalty kick.

Sometimes it's almost merciful.

[Guest rpackrat]

It seems to me that the only clear mistake by Eddings was not vocalizing "ball in play" of "no catch." The repalys were inconclusive on whether the ball bounced -- it clearly changed direction, and there is no way to tell whether it did so because it hit the ground or the catcher's glove. People keep talking about Eddings' closed-fist "punch out" sign, but neither Pierzynski nor Paul could have seen that because both had their backs to Eddings. The confusion came because Eddings did not make a vocal call alerting the players to the fact that the ball (in his reasonable opinion) bounced.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Sox win Game 3, 5-2.

Garland: 9 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 7 K, 1 BB. Nuthin but a Cabrera HR.

Lackey gave up 3 in the first and as Warner would say "you coulda turned your sets off there."

[Frayed Knot]

Angels continue to run the bases poorly. This time it was Erstad who - down by 4 runs at mid-game - decides to try for a 2-out triple and was thrown out by about 8 feet.
For all the talk of small-ball* going on with these teams, the Angels and ChiSox have gotten to where they are DESPITE the way they're executing little ball, not because of it.


* -- and while we're on this subject, I'm getting a huge kick out of listening to MFY fans who think the reason they didn't go further is because they don't bunt enough. If I'm on the opposing side I'm BEGGING for Sheff, ARod & Giambi to start laying them down.

[Zvon]

="Frayed Knot"] And I'm certainly not buying the argument (put forth from several sources) that the 'importance of this game' means you somehow get more lax on a call like this. MFY fans have this tendancy to think that games affecting their possible ouster from the playoffs are somehow more parmount than those played by mere mortals.

point taken. Tho i was more referring to the importance of the situation.\
Im no Yank fan. I just dont hate them like your typical met fan.
When it comes to post season (with no Mets) I not only want to see good games & good baseball,.... I hate for it to end. So Im always rooting for maxed out series's, extra innings,....anything to keep the baseball season alive. Either way we did get the most games out of that series, so im not complaining. Just talkin.

] If I were going to cry about a call I'd go to the one where Cano jumped off the base a partial second too soon on the force play.

Your right,...this was more of a surprise call than the play at 1st, and was, imo, not of a consistant nature. They always give the 2nd baseman that call.

I guess my feeling is a good game for an umpire is when he goes totally unnoticed. And this applies only to the call at 2nd base, cuz the call at 1st did require more involvement. It still was nitpicking. Id bet donuts to dollars that if Cano was ruled safe at 1st, there would have been not even a hint of argument from the Angels bench.
So the ump ended up making a big play there, not the players.
But if the rule says both feet had to be totally in that zone, I guess he had every right. Im just sayin I just didnt like it.

Lets face it,.....this all goes back to JC Martins bunt in the '69 series.
Ever since umps have been looking to balance out that non-call,...lol.

[seawolf17]

Neat stat -- three consecutive CGs by White Sox pitchers in this series... the first time that has happened in the postseason since:

October 6, 1973 - Seaver
October 7, 1973 - Matlack
October 8, 1973 - Koosman

[Frayed Knot]

"Id bet donuts to dollars that if Cano was ruled safe at 1st, there would have been not even a hint of argument from the Angels bench."

There damn well SHOULD have been and Scoscia hardly seems like the type who would sit back and let something like that slide.


"So the ump ended up making a big play there, not the players."

I disagree. It's the umps job to jump in there if a player not following the rules (Cano) affects the play (which he clearly did IMO). Again, the idea that umps/refs shouldn't 'decide a game' with a call leads to them possibly deciding games with NON-calls which is at least as bad.



Anyway, on to new games;
Angels FINALLY get a call to go their way here in game 6.
Adam Kennedy on 1st when Figgins (finally a hit!!) laces a hit-n-run double to RF. A fan (presumably a local LAA fan) reaches over the low wall to snag the bouncing ball which clearly would have stayed in play (I hope stadium security is currently in their 20th minute of beating him under the stands). The umps initially ruled Kennedy to stop at 3rd, until a brief protest from Scoscia and an ump confab led to them awarding him home (he was running on the pitch remember). He likely would have scored anyway as the Halos actually put a few hits together and took a 3-2 lead here as they attempt to stave off elimination.

[Zvon]

seawolf17 wrote: Neat stat -- three consecutive CGs by White Sox pitchers in this series... the first time that has happened in the postseason since: October 6, 1973 - Seaver October 7, 1973 - Matlack October 8, 1973 - Koosman

ya gotta love anytime the Mets come up

[Zvon]

Frayed Knot wrote: Anyway, on to new games; Angels FINALLY get a call to go their way here in game 6. Adam Kennedy on 1st when Figgins (finally a hit!!) laces a hit-n-run double to RF. A fan (presumably a local LAA fan) reaches over the low wall to snag the bouncing ball which clearly would have stayed in play (I hope stadium security is currently in their 20th minute of beating him under the stands). The umps initially ruled Kennedy to stop at 3rd, until a brief protest from Scoscia and an ump confab led to them awarding him home (he was running on the pitch remember). He likely would have scored anyway as the Halos actually put a few hits together and took a 3-2 lead here as they attempt to stave off elimination.

Ive missed alot of this game.
Thanks for fillin me in on that^.

Crede just tied it with a kaboom in the 7th.
Good game here.

[Zvon]

="seawolf17"]Neat stat -- three consecutive CGs by White Sox pitchers in this series... the first time that has happened in the postseason since: October 6, 1973 - Seaver October 7, 1973 - Matlack October 8, 1973 - Koosman

Three cards from my MetSet about that playoff series:







Collect em all! (just right click and save to a file)

[Frayed Knot]

And speaking of umps' calls, Posednik just got away with what Cameron couldn't earlier this year. Y'know the one where he catches the ball yet drops it on the transfer even though no further throw/play was in order. No hint of a call from the men in blue nor a mention from those in the booth.

That's probably one of those rules that dates back to the day when gloves snagged things only slightly better than kids winter mittens and just has never been taken off the books. I was shocked when that got called this year on Cammy.




And now another bad call as I'm typing!!!!
Pitcher Escobar tags the runner with his glove as the ball is clearly in his bare hand. He even threw it after the tag as an indication that HE knew it wasn't legit but the 1st base ump doesn't see it.
They've now reversed the call after a conference. Scoscia's arguing about it but I think it's more from accumulated frustration more than anything else.

[Zvon]

Frayed Knot wrote: And speaking of umps' calls, Posednik just got away with what Cameron couldn't earlier this year. Y'know the one where he catches the ball yet drops it on the transfer even though no further throw/play was in order. No hint of a call from the men in blue nor a mention from those in the booth. That's probably one of those rules that dates back to the day when gloves snagged things only slightly better than kids winter mittens and just has never been taken off the books. I was shocked when that got called this year on Cammy. And now another bad call as I'm typing!!!! Pitcher Escobar tags the runner with his glove as the ball is clearly in his bare hand. He even threw it after the tag as an indication that HE knew it wasn't legit but the 1st base ump doesn't see it. They've now reversed the call after a conference. Scoscia's arguing about it but I think it's more from accumulated frustration more than anything else.

yea,...good thing they got together and reversed that call.
It was so apparent from a different view than the umps.
If they didnt reverse that you would never hear the end of it (from me,lol).

Scoscia wasnt nearly as livid as laRussa this afternoon.
Id never seen Tony so wide eyed and P.O.'d b4.

[metirish]

It looks like curtains for the Angels, Sox up 5 - 3 with no outs and men on 2nd and 3rd in the ninth..Piniella is a major bore, his agent needs to tell him that the TV booth is not for him.

[Willets Point]

3 outs are all that stand between Chicago and the city's first pennant celebration in 46 years.

[Zvon]

metirish wrote: Piniella is a major bore, his agent needs to tell him that the TV booth is not for him.

agreed.....I always thought of him as intelligent.
....not any more.

[Zvon]

Willets Point wrote: 3 outs are all that stand between Chicago and the city's first pennant celebration in 46 years.

i have the bubbly on ice

[metirish]

And Contreras is back to try and finish the job, would that be a first that four pitchers pitched complete games in the modern era?

of course that would be complete games in the ALCS/.NLCS.

[Willets Point]

Things that may no longer be considered truisms:
-It never rains in Southern California
-Chicago teams never win baseball championships

[Willets Point]

Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye
He'll never love you, the way that I love you
'Cause if he did, no no, he wouldn't make you cry
He might be thrillin' baby but a-my love (my love, my love)
So dog-gone willin'
So kiss him (I wanna see you kiss him, wanna see you kiss him)
Go on and kiss him goodbye

Na na na na, hey hey-hey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye
Listen to me now
He's never near you to comfort and cheer you
When all those sad tears are fallin' baby from your eyes
He might be thrillin' baby but a-my love (my love, my love)
So dog-gone willin'
So kiss him (I wanna see you kiss him. I wanna see you kiss him)
Go on and kiss him goodbye

Na-na na-na-na na na na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye
Hey hey-hey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye [repeat many times and fade out]

[Zvon]

another complete game win for a Sox pitcher,,,thats pretty awsum.