Trade Deadline Countdown

[metsmarathon]

yak. me no likey. i'd rather include heilmann than zambrano, imo. granted, i'd rather include nobody for reasons stated elsewhere by posters aplenty.

imagine the cries of metfandom if soriano came here for the price of, effectively, scott kazmir and a very promising future pitcher, and then played at shea like he's played on the road this year.

sheesh. there'd be a riot.

can we get a first baseman instead? i mean, its the position at which we're more sorely in need of an upgrade, isnt it?

[Elster88]

DAMMIT! LEAVE THE FARM SYSTEM ALONE!

I'm surprised that the Mets would rather deal Zambrano than Heilman.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

That has the ring of falsehood.

I don't think Petit and Heilman brings back Soriano.

I also think the Mets would prefer that deal to Petit and Zambrano.

[Guest Edgy DC]

MFS, did you clip that from the Dallas Morning News or another fan site?

[MFS62]

="Edgy DC"]MFS, did you clip that from the Dallas Morning News or another fan site?

Since it gave the reference, I clipped it from another site. There was no link provided.

Later

[Guest Rotblatt]

Motherfucker.

I don't think I can go through another razing of our farm system.

And what the fuck are we going to do with Keppinger, Lambin & Hernandez if we get Soriano? We'll have no leverage in trying to trade them because all the positions they could play--2B, SS, 3B--will be blocked indefinitely.

If this goes through, I may be forced to agree with Sal that the Mets are all about image and don't give a shit about putting the best possible team on the field. Which is kind of ironic, cause I got the impression that Sal thought a deal for Soriano might be kinda okay.

I really hope this guy doesn't know what he's talking about and is just trying to sell some papers . . .

[Guest Rotblatt]

Soriano & Cameron evaluations via BP (free articles for the next few days! Check it out!):

]Alfonso Soriano, Rangers PECOTA anticipated an offensive resurgence for Soriano this season, and he has made good on that promise, posting a .282/.316/.546 batting line that is an effective dead ringer for his .301/.348/.538 projection after accounting for the leaguewide offensive decline. Soriano's speed-power combination ought to age relatively well, whatever his problems with pitch selection. But the problem has never been Soriano's bat. According to Clay Davenport's defensive statistics, Soriano has already cost his team some 20 runs in the field this year relative to a league-average second baseman, which goes a long way toward mitigating his 28.7 VORP. Defensive statistics, of course, are always something of a speculative exercise, but in this case there is good reason to give them a lot of weight, as Soriano has a long history of poor defensive performances. To the extent that defensive statistics have their problems, they are mostly related to matters of context: perhaps the second baseman's numbers are impacted by the shortstop's, or the starting pitcher's, and so forth. But Soriano posted poor defensive numbers in New York, in a pitchers' park with a good pitching staff and a poor double play partner, and he's posted poor defensive numbers in Texas, in a hitters' park with a poor pitching staff and a good double play partner. His defense stinks, and between that and the offense-inflating environment of Arlington, its no wonder that the sharp knifes in Rangers management have been trying to move him virtually since the day he arrived in the Metroplex.

]Mike Cameron, Mets Cameron's name comes up more often in blogs than on ESPN, which probably means that there's a fair amount of wishcasting going on; he's been an underrated player for a long time. The concern here is whether his injury history is starting to take a toll on his defense. Cameron's fielding has rated some four runs worse than league average this year, this in spite of the fact that he's played the vast bulk of his year in right field. Our ability to forecast defensive performance is still very primitive, but my guess is that he's at best a run or two better than a league average defensive player in center field; 32 is about the age at which a lot of peripheral skills tend to decline, with or without an injury history. He's still a considerably more worthwhile player than someone like Randy Winn, but some of the advantage that a smart GM may have been hoping to arbitrage out is evaporating. The other concern is that this is likely going to need to be a win-now-for-win-now swap. It's easy to mock Omar Minaya's brashness, but our estimate is that the Mets still have a 26 percent chance of making the playoffs.

[Elster88]

ESPN.com has the same thing that MFS's article had, plus a second paragraph.

]Second helping Jul 28 - According to Newark Star-Ledger, the Rangers have decided to move Alfonso Soriano, and the Mets are working hard to get him. Trade discussions have focused on Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman and Double-A Binghampton right-hander Yusmeiro Petit, but the Mets might prefer to deal right-hander Victor Zambrano rather than Heilman. Another scenario that surfaced involved a three-way deal involving the Mets, Rangers and Reds that would send both Soriano and Sean Casey to the Mets with a package of prospects going to the other two clubs, Newsday reports. The Mets would assume considerable salary in that trade, not only for this season but 2006 as well. Soriano already earns $7.5 million this year and will get a big raise through arbitration. Casey is currently making $7.8 million and the Reds have picked up his $8.5-million option for next year.

[Elster88]

According to the Newark Star-Ledger, both the Yankees and Mets are likely to take a look at reliever Ricky Bottalico, who was designated for assignment by Milwaukee on Wednesday. Bottallico is 2-2 with a 4.54 ERA in 41 2/3 innings this season.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Bottalico?

Been there. Done that. Bought the t-shirt.

Let's pass this time, shall we?

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Rotblatt wrote: If this goes through, I may be forced to agree with Sal that the Mets are all about image and don't give a shit about putting the best possible team on the field. Which is kind of ironic, cause I got the impression that Sal thought a deal for Soriano might be kinda okay. .

Uh-uh. I'm agin it, if there's prospects involved, because I don't think this team needs a minor tune-up to be a serious competitor and because Soriano gives me the creeps. What this team needs is for about three or four farmhands to come up, stay up, and be superior players. You really can't do that if your program involcves swapping out your number one pick every year.

Funny, though, if we'd kept Kazmir, I don't think I'd be seeing it quite that way. Then itwould be a one-time-only kinda thing and I'd evaluate it on its merits. The merits are dubious enough, but endorsing a policy of swapping out your farmhands either suggests you don't draft very well, and are looking to get past your drafting errors, or you want to churn, churn, churn draft picks, which strikes me as exceptionally ill-advised.

[metsmarathon]

you have a bottalico t-shirt? that's wicked-cool!

[seawolf17]

From BP.com:

]Thursday, July 28, 2:35 p.m. ET: ESPN 103.3 in Dallas was reporting this morning that Alfonso Soriano had been dealt for Mike Cameron and Lastings Milledge. As yet, there's been no additional confirmation, so I don't think this deal is as close as our friends in Dallas think it is. With that said, it does appear that there's fire behind this smoke. Tom Hicks may have said he doesn't want to trade Soriano, but I think the billionaire would be willing to make a deal he didn't want if it made sense. The Rangers are also stalled on Sidney Ponson. Apparently, Baltimore doesn't want to absorb nearly as much salary as Texas would like them to do. Larry Lucchino confirmed that Manny Ramirez did ask to be traded. According to reader M.D. "it's an annual event. Like Bastille Day." Ramirez will not be traded now, of course, but the Mets covet the slugger openly and if the Red Sox put Ramirez back on waivers, they'll claim him. The Brewers are in the top 10 of team WXRL. After designating Ricky Bottalico for assignment, that means their bullpen is down to just one player who makes more than the league minimum. It's funny that both New York teams, with bullpens costing ten times as much and performing considerably worse, will consider adding a guy like Bottalico. Doug Melvin is underrated.

If Manny's available, you go get him. THE END.

[Elster88]

If we get Manny, then I would do the Cameron for Soriano trade.

'Course, it has to go the other way around.

[duan]

y'know who'd be a neat enough fit?
Placido Palonco, can play second, fill in at third or short in a pinch and has excellent on base skills that could be used really well in the first or second slot in the lineup.

The Tigers got him for Uggy Urbina, you'd have to think that you could come up with a reasonable price for him.

[Guest Spacemans Bong]

duan wrote: y'know who'd be a neat enough fit? Placido Palonco, can play second, fill in at third or short in a pinch and has excellent on base skills that could be used really well in the first or second slot in the lineup. The Tigers got him for Uggy Urbina, you'd have to think that you could come up with a reasonable price for him.

The Tigers want to keep him, though. That seems to be the problem.

I don't know about Manny. See if you can get the Red Sox to pick up some of that deal. It sucks, and I think Manny's sliding downhill.

[MFS62]

While we're waiting for a real deal to be announced, this is something Joel Sherman of the NY Post wrote a few years ago. I had to re-type it because it was an early edition space filler and the link was gone before I had a chance to copy it. So I didn't include the reasons he gave for each move (rebuilding, salary budget, etc.) and may have gotten some of the players wrong.

You might get a kick out of some of the players mentioned.
Enjoy.

Later
*********************************************************
New York Mets
Trade: Pedro Astacio, Jeromy Burnitz, Roger Cedeno and Aaron Heilman
Obtain: Hank Blalock, Ben Grieve and Denny Neagle
Atlanta Braves
Trade: Vinny Castilla
Obtain: Todd Jones
Philadelphia Phillies
Trade: Placido Polcano, Joe Roa and Chase Utley
Obtain: Luis Rivas and Paul Shuey
Florida Marlins
Trade: Andy Fox, Mike Redmond and Michael Tejera
Obtain: Terrence Long and John McDonald
Montreal Expos
Trade: Michael Barrett, Josh Karp, Fernando Tatis, Jose Vidro and $5 million
Obtain: Tony Alvarez, Mark Bellhorn, Kelvim Escobar, Shea Hillenbrand, Mike Redmond and Mike Wood
St Louis Cardinals
Trade: Garrett Stephenson and Fernando Vina
Obtain: Glendon Rusch
Houston Astros
Trade: Brian Hunter, Henri Stanley and Jose Vizcaino
Obtain:
Chicago Cubs
Trade: Mark Bellhorn, Juan Cruz, Kyle Farnsworth and Corey Patterson
Obtain: Carlos Beltran, Fernando Tatis and $5 million
Cincinnati Reds
Trade: Ruben Mateo and Gabe White
Obtain: Sidney Ponson
Milwaukee Brewers
Trade: Glendon Rusch and Eric Young
Obtain: Michael Barrett, Garret Stephenson, Michael Tejera and Bubba Trammell
Pittsburgh Pirates
Trade: Tony Alvarez, Tony Bautista and Scott Sauerbeck
Obtain: Carlos Lee and Ruben Mateo
Arizona Diamondbacks
Trade: Miguel Batista
Obtain: Jason Grimsley and Joe Roa
San Francisco
Trade: Marvin Bernard and Felix Rodriguez
Obtain:
Los Angeles
Trade: Joey Cora and Paul Shuey
Obtain: Mike Bynum, Brian Hunter and Jose Vizcaino
Colorado Rockies
Trade: Todd Jones and Denny Neagle
Obtain: Vinny Castilla, Roger Cedeno and Kevin Jarvis
San Diego Padres
Trade: Mike Bynum, Kevin Jarvis and Bubba Trammell
Obtain: Jeromy Burnitz And Kyle Farnsworth
New York Yankees
Trade: Sterling Hitchcock
Obtain: Melvin Mora and Gabe White
Boston Red Sox
Trade: Shea Hillenbrand
Obtain: Felix Rodriguez
Toronto Blue Jays
Trade: Kelvim Escobar and Orlando Hudson
Obtain: Juan Cruz and Ted Lilly
Baltimore Orioles
Trade: Melvin Mora, Sidney Ponson and Willis Roberts
Obtain: Juan Gonzalez
Tampa Bay Devil Rays
Trade: Ben Grieve
Obtain: Jay Powell
Minnesota Twins
Trade: Bobby Kielty, Rick Reed and Luis Rivas
Obtain: Miguel Batista, Joey Cora and Fernando Vina
Chicago White Sox
Trade: Tony Graffanino, Carlos Lee and Kelly Wunsch
Obtain: Pedro Astacio, Jose Bautista and Josh Karp
Kansas City Royals
Trade: Carlos Beltran and Jason Grimsley
Obtain: Mark Ellis, Orlando Hudson, Corey Patterson, Brian Tallet and Chase Utley
Cleveland Indians
Trade: John McDonald and Brian Tallet
Obtain: Placido Polcano
Detroit Tigers
Trade: Shane Halter
Obtain: Tony Graffanino
Seattle Mariners
Trade: Mike Cameron
Obtain: Rick Reed and Kelly Wunsch
Oakland Athletics
Trade: Mark Ellis, Ramon Hernandez, Ted Lilly, Terrence Long and Mike Wood
Obtain: Marvin Bernard, Bobby Kielty and Jose Vidro
Anaheim Angels
Trade: Scott Schoenweis and Scot Shields
Obtain: Andy Fox and Scott Sauerbeck
Texas Rangers
Trade: Hank Blalock, Juan Gonzalez and Jay Powell
Obtain: Mike Cameron, Shane Halter, Aaron Heilman and Sterling Hitchcock

[Guest OlerudOwned]

From www.Metsblog.com

]06:55 PM EDT... Now I know how Matt feels... Allright ladies and gentlemen, here's what I got so far.... Noah from MetsTalk.com, had the following to say to me... "ESPN Radio talked to Rob Neyer, trade was inevitable, could be announced as early as tomorrow, Mets are just asking for a bigger prospect than the Rangers are willing to add to the Soriano deal, but the deal will get done. Texas wants money from the Mets and will ask for less talent should the Mets agree. Many sources have indicated to me that the Mets are still trying to lower the price, but will settle for Milledge within the hour. The Mets are also in hot pursuit of Huff, which is why they aren't selling pitching. They feel Tampa like Heilman and Yusmeiro Petit."

Now, if we give up Milledge and the cash for Soriano, I don't want Petit going for Huff and Baez. We'd be better off IMO sitting pat there, keeping our prospect, and I think Heilman can be just as effective from the pen as Baez.

Also, I feel the need to throw a WATP in here. If we do wrap up Soriano, and if Boston tries to shop Manny, we could try Soriano and Kameron as a package (one not involving Petit, Gaby Hernandez, Bannister, etc.) for Ramirez and the catcher stuck behind Varitek who's name i can never remember. Boston's second base situation is pretty miserable, and I'm in favor of using someone like Anderson Hernandez at second.

I think Floyd's shown enough athleticism to play right this year, and that would be one helluva scary outfield at the plate.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Heilman and Petit for Huff is a steep price, especially given how mediocre Huff has been this year. The difference between Valent and Huff isn't nearly big enough to warrant a trade like that--assuming that Valent is back in his low .800 OPS form.

If we trade Milledge, Zambrano, Heilman & Petit away for Soriano & Huff, I'll be really pissed.

[Guest Rotblatt]

]If we do wrap up Soriano, and if Boston tries to shop Manny, we could try Soriano and Kameron as a package (one not involving Petit, Gaby Hernandez, Bannister, etc.) for Ramirez and the catcher stuck behind Varitek who's name i can never remember. Boston's second base situation is pretty miserable, and I'm in favor of using someone like Anderson Hernandez at second. I think Floyd's shown enough athleticism to play right this year, and that would be one helluva scary outfield at the plate.

That would be a scary good outfield, but we'd need a lot of cash back from Boston for that deal.

I'd just as soon try and get Shoppach for Heilman or Hernandez and stick with the OF we have.

[Elster88]

I'd rather have Huff than Soriano. I really don't think Valent can carry Huff's jock.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Boston reportedly willing to give up Arroyo, Shoppach & Youkilis for Billy Wagner.

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=95723

That's just a lot to give up, even for a dominant closer. Any chance we could convince them to give up Shoppach & Youkilis for Hernandez? They'd be giving up less and still be getting a pretty darn good relief pitcher--as a matter of fact, Hernandez's numbers are pretty close to Wagners, minus the saves . . .

45 IP, 43 K, 17 BB, 1.80 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, .215 BAA
48.1 IP, 50 K, 14 BB, 2.05 ERA, 0.95 WHIP, .187 BAA

Meanwhile, we could put Youkilis in at 1B or even try him at 2B for the rest of the season. We'd probably want to move him for a real 1B or 2B in the offseason, but he'd be an upgrade for us offensively at either slot in the interim.

We'd have to hope that Padilla, Heilman & Bell could pick up the slack, of course, but stranger things have happened--like a 40-year old journeyman putting up the same line as a 34-year old ace closer . . .

[Guest Edgy DC]

Problem with dealing one for three: One excellent guy is harder to find than three good guys.

Problem with dealing three for one: One guy leaves all your health eggs in one basket. One tendon pops and you lose your whoe package. Could you imagine a single injury (a bizarre collission) taking out all of Arroyo, Shoppach, and Youkilis? An injury to Wagner after trading them for him would effectively do that.

[MFS62]

]Could you imagine a single injury (a bizarre collission) taking out all of Arroyo, Shoppach, and Youkilis?

Yes, on a wind-blown infield popup.

This should probably be in a separate post)
What scares me is Omar's penchant for making BIG deals/ trading name players. Soome have been good, some haven't worked out so well. I'm not nominating him for MENSA just yet.

Later

[Elster88]

MFS62 wrote: What scares me is Omar's penchant for making BIG deals/ trading name players. Soome have been good, some haven't worked out so well. I'm not nominating him for MENSA just yet.

No strikes on the "big" moves so far as a Met. In fact I have no problems with any of his moves thus far, unless failing to get Delgado counts.

I was very anti-Pedro at the beginning of the year, and anti-Bert. In Omar I trust.

[Guest Rotblatt]

I almost ignored my own rule by posting this in the AP MOTT but decorum prevailed. From SoSH (who have let unregistered ruffians like me back in, thank God!):

]Guy just called in WEEI, 3 way deal, 90% chance of going down, says his source is one of the top 2-3 baseball guys in one of the teams involved; didn't give explicit details, but here's the gist: Sox give up Manny, Shoppach, Embree, and Hanley Ramiriz DRays give up Huff and Baez Mets give up Cameron, Petit, two prospects Sox get Cameron, Huff, and Baez DRays get Mets prospects and Hanley Ramiriz Mets get Manny and Embree

Why on earth would we want Embree? And would we really let Shoppach & Huff pass through our fingers? Wouldn't H. Ramirez, Petit & 2 unnamed Mets prospects be enough in return for the D-Rays? I'd think we could grab at least one of Huff or Shoppach . . .

Boston would be getting a pretty raw deal, too. Huff's slumping just as badly as Mueller & Millar and Youkilis is outperforming him.

[Elster88]

So the Mets are giving up three prospects? And who plays right? Manny the Drunk or Cliff the Gimp? Gotta love those radio call-in people and their sources.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Well, presumably, we'd move Cliff over to RF. Or we could fulfill a long-held dream of moving Cliff to 1B and calling up Diaz for RF. Any way you look at it, though, our defense gets worse but our offense gets pretty fucking nasty.

Reyes, SS
Beltran, CF
Manny, LF
Floyd, 1B
Wright, 3B
Piazza, C
Diaz, RF
A. Hernandez (since I'm dreaming, anyway), 2B

I don't know what the fuck we'd do with Embree, though. He's been terrible this year and even lefties are batting over .300 off of him.

Anyway, if we're giving up all that, couldn't we pry Dunn away from the Reds instead? He's younger, better defensively and a helluva lot cheaper. And he's a lefty, which we need more than a righty.

[Elster88]

Hmmmmmmm. I'd forgotten about Diaz.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Weird stuff tonight in Boston... Official statement:

�After meeting with Manny Ramirez, manager Terry Francona made the decision shortly before game time that under the circumstances, it was in the best interests of the club and Manny Ramirez that he not be in the starting lineup tonight.�