Expansion and Realignment (split from Aug 17 IGT)

[metirish]

Manfred mentioned expansion and realignment, ties both of them together , I didn't catch much of the game, but saw that interview

[Benjamin Grimm]

I just read an article about what Manfred said. It sounds like the plan is to have an Eastern League and a Western League. (Or more likely, an Amazon League and a Microsoft League, or something to that effect.) But no more National or American League. There would be sixteen teams in each league. I don't know if that would mean eight divisions of four teams each, but if so, the Mets would probably be sharing a division with the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies.

[ashie62]

At least it's some years away I would hope

Tyrone Taylor might get DFA'd today to keep Acuna

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think Manfred wants the expansion and realignment to happen this decade. I guess we'll see...

[Centerfield]

Eliminating the NL/AL has so many ramifications.

All of the awards/records would be affected. There would only be one batting champ, one MVP, one ROTY.

There would be no such things as “National League Champions”.

And I’m sure eventually everyone would get used to it. But does this really need to be done?

One of the cool things about baseball is being able to travel to Boston or Baltimore and root for the team knowing it doesn’t affect your team at all. Eliminating the leagues robs us of that.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think there would be an Eastern League MVP and a Western League MVP. And Cy Young, Rookie of the Year, etc.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think our postseason format would be even more appealing for entities like ESPN because you’d be playing out of the East, out of the West and that 10 o’clock where we sometimes get Boston-Anaheim would be two West Coast teams. That 10 o’clock slot that’s a problem for us sometimes becomes a real opportunity for our West Coast audience.

 

I actually think this makes a lot of sense. The Mets (the only team I care about) wouldn't be playing any post-season games on the West Coast in any of the rounds prior to the World Series.

 

Manfred has said he wants to have the locations of two new teams picked out by the time he retires in 2029, although the clubs won’t yet be playing.

 

Major League Baseball believes the strongest two expansion markets remain Salt Lake City, Utah, and Nashville, with no plans to put an expansion franchise back into Oakland.

[bmfc1]

It could lead to a division with Mets, NYY, PHI, and BOS. "Think of the rivalries!" Manfred will say.

Do you want to play the Yankees more than 6 times? I don't even want to play them 6 times.

Plus, there will likely be numerous "Wild Cards" so the Mets would be competing against teams in divisions with low budgets and/or expansion teams for the same Wild Card spots.

[Gwreck]

Manfred is the worst thing to happen to baseball in my lifetime.

DH in the NL? Abominable.

Clown car extra inning rules? Unforgivable

Expanded playoffs, cheapening the product for everyone: terrible

Now this nonsense? Unbelievable

[MFS62]

I feel like Don Corleone, sadly telling the mortician, "Look how they messed with my boy".

Later

[Gwreck]

If expansion is going to happen (it’s not necessary), there is a way to do this without totally destroying everything. Either 4 divisions of 8, or 8 divisions of 4 (splits below).

NL East:

Mets

ATL

PHI

WAS

—-

CIN

PIT

MIA

Nashville

NL West:

CHC

COL

MIL

STL

—-

ARZ

LAD

SDP

SFG

AL East:

BAL

BOS

NYY

TBR

—-

CHW

CLE

DET

TOR

AL West:

HOU

KCR

MIN

TEX

—-

Las Vegas

LAA

Salt Lake City

SEA

[Fman99]

I'm sure that whatever he comes up with it'll be a colossal butt **** to baseball fans.

[MFS62]

I didn't see anything other than East / West that makes me think they will be broken into eight 4 team divisions.

If he wants to keep some of the "old feel", why not 4 eight team divisions(2 East, 2 West)?

It would bring back some of the old school feel, when there were 8 team leagues.

Later

[Frayed Knot]

This sounds like one of those deals -- like the universal DH, like the Ghost runner -- that has already been decided long before MLB's eventual announcement.

Only the reveal of which new cities and the details of realignment remain.

Manfred all but said that this is being done to save travel expenses and have playoff matchups between teams in the same time zones as much as possible (y'know, at least for the opening five rounds). So the idea that the east coast NL teams and west coast NL teams are to remain in the same league/conference/play-group (whatever they're going to call it) sounds unlikely to say the least.

- what I expect to see is the Mets 'grouped' with eastern and near-eastern team while teams in the western half of the country in effect become the 'other' league who we'll see one series/yr. iow: basketball

I say this every time the topic of expansion/realignment comes up, but divisions made up of just four teams is a HORRIBLE idea (and one which I fully expect to be the end result)

- it greatly reduces the chances of a good and meaningful race for 1st place which, in turn, gives birth to the idea of MORE wild cards are needed to make up for divisions effectively being clinched in August

- it also greatly increases the odds of a division being won by a sub-.500 team

- so if you're going to 32 teams (again, a fait accomplishment IMO) 4x8 is > 8x4 despite what your math teacher told you all those years ago

[Benjamin Grimm]

I agree with the above post from FK.

The East/West thing is a key part of the plan and it almost certain to be part of the final realignment. It's not all bad; I like that it means that the Mets will never have a postseason game that starts at 10 p.m. (Not that that's happened very often; I think the last time was either 1999 in Phoenix or 2000 in San Francisco.)

And I also agree that four divisions of eight teams each is a lot better than eight divisions of four.

If there are still going to be twelve postseason teams (and there certainly won't be fewer) then the four division winners would get the first round bye. This is also an improvement, as currently two division winners each year are forced into the Wild Card round. Each league would have two division winners and four wild cards.

I don't know if they'd abandon the league names of National and American. They might as well. Let there be a Jackie Robinson League (for the West; he's from California) and a Roberto Clemente League for the East. It would start a new tradition and would piss off a lot of bigots.

[Frayed Knot]

The East/West thing is a key part of the plan and it almost certain to be part of the final realignment. It's not all bad; I like that it means that the Mets will never have a postseason game that starts at 10 p.m. (Not that that's happened very often; I think the last time was either 1999 in Phoenix or 2000 in San Francisco.)

 

Those starts in Phoenix in 1999 were 11 PM starts -- 8:09 local time first pitch to be precise for both Game 1 & 2

TV wanted to keep the two NYC teams from conflicting with each other and the Tex @ NYY games 1 & 2 in that same round started at 8:10 EDT

so even a 10:00 start time wasn't going to cut it*. And that's what Manfred hinted at last night, that a more regional approach to the early

playoff rounds would keep east coasters from having to endure late starts and west coasters from potentially having a first pitch in road games

come during the middle of their work day. Both cases are going to contribute to a ceiling for TV rating$ - and of course the TV networks are

going to have a voice in these decisions.

* Naturally the first two TEX/NYY games totaled over 7 hours (because of course they did) so there were still some conflicts anyway.

[bmfc1]

Manfred was full of it when he said that he wanted to cut down on travel to protect the players, because if that was important, there wouldn't be inter-league play and the schedule would have more games in your division. When we were a lot younger, the Mets played 18 games vs. the East, 12 vs. the West, and made 2 WC trips. We now have a "balanced" schedule with 4 West Coast-ish trips, including the occasional one-game trip (the Mets had to travel to St. Louis last year for a makeup game and had a one-game trip this past Sunday night). So don't make this sound as if it's being done for the players--it's being done to make rich people more money.

[Gwreck]

When we were a lot younger, the Mets played 18 games vs. the East, 12 vs. the West, and made 2 WC trips.

 

I’m not sure what to do with an argument that “it was better before Denver and Phoenix had teams.” (The Mets have been regularly making 3 or more “West Coast” road trips per season since they joined the league).

 

including the occasional one-game trip (the Mets had to travel to St. Louis last year for a makeup game

and had a one-game trip this past Sunday night).

 

The random rainout makeup has always been a possibility when traveling somewhere a team won’t return to before the end of the season. Other teams have the same issue from time to time.

And while MLB “special events” can be kind of goofy at times, making the Mets and Mariners travel all the way to Williamsport, PA for that game (flying time:

[Frayed Knot]

Is geographic alignment for the benefit of owners with reduced travel expenses or for the players with less travel time?

Answer: Yes

The NY Post floats this idea -- using the 8 x 4 teams like everyone assumes will be the case even though none like to point out drawbacks when they do so.

And, as always, one of the big issues with splitting the country east/west is that the teams aren't cleanly divided into east and west. In the Post's example the team getting screwed here most is Cincinnati as they'll be the lone Eastern Time Zone team in the 'west' playing a lot of games in the Central, Mountain, and Pacific zones. Also Milwaukee not being grouped with their TWO closest teams the Cubs & ChiSox. And while the long running argument in favor of realignment has been that in-state teams should be matched up, this one still separates the two Pennsylvania clubs (split apart 30+ years ago killing a near 100-yr rivalry in Bud Selig's first realignment "fix") and still keeps the two Ohio clubs and the two Missouri clubs apart.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

Now some of those issues could be fixed by group 4x8 instead of 8x4 but not all of them. One of those five divisions either on or east of the Mississippi has to be grouped in the west and all logical options still have drawbacks.

[FIMG=600]https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/08/19s.MLB_.RealignmentGFX_web.jpg?resize=1024,607&quality=75&strip=all[/FIMG]

[roger_that]

Manfred is the worst thing to happen to baseball in my lifetime.

DH in the NL? Abominable.

Clown car extra inning rules? Unforgivable

Expanded playoffs, cheapening the product for everyone: terrible

Now this nonsense? Unbelievable

 

Agreed, Manfred is a car full of clown cars, the worst thing to hit baseball since Pete Browning.

But even a stopped clock....

This is a great idea.

I favor a far more restrictive schedule than the current one which maximizes the number of opponents to "everybody," meaning that half the time I don't know a single player on the opposing team

It works be fantastic for two reasons. One, the aforementioned familiarity. And two, the chance to see away games featuring the Mets. A trip to Philly, Boston, the Bronx once in a while would be fun, and Citifield would be packed more often with Phillies, Sox etc fans

[Benjamin Grimm]

[FIMG=600]https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/08/19s.MLB_.RealignmentGFX_web.jpg?resize=1024,607&quality=75&strip=all[/FIMG]

 

I suppose if you do Salt Lake City instead of Nashville, the Reds could move into the division with the Braves and the Florida teams, the Brewers can then join the Cardinals and the Chicago teams, the Royals could join the Twins, Tigers, and Blue Jays in what would be the weirdest division, and the Salt Lake City Bees would be with the Rockies and the Texas teams.

I'm not sure that's much better, but it's different!

[Edgy MD]

This doesn't speak to expansion and realignment, but baseball is a game played in series, and a lot of the problems with the showcase games — Williamsport Classic, Rickwood Field Classic, NASCAR Classic, Hall of Fame Game, Field of Dreams Classic, Civil Rights Game, Post Raisin Bran Classic, Hubert H. Humphrey Showcase, Scooby-Doo Classic — could be smoothed out if they instead scheduled a three-game series.

[Gwreck]

The NY Post floats this idea -- using the 8 x 4 teams like everyone assumes will be the case even though none like to point out drawbacks when they do so.

 

Assuming expansion happens, it seems a fair assumption to assume groupings of 4 and 8, no? The Post does well making a nice little map but their groupings are not very well thought out.

The one hope for sensible realignment, if it happens, is that a sufficient number of owners may not find it in their interest to be realigned. The minor savings on travel costs is not going to outweigh concerns over access to the playoffs. A situation in which the Mets, Phillies, Red Sox, and Yankees are all placed in one division? One would expect 4 “no” votes from ownership of each of those clubs. That’s not enough to block it, but if there’s also a few other teams also placed in situations they don’t like (in ridiculous map above, that might also be Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Colorado, Toronto) — then there might be sufficient power to block dumb ideas.

[Edgy MD]

Hello, we are Denver. You may know us for being 1,000 miles away from and inconvenient for everybody.

[Frayed Knot]

Assuming expansion happens, it seems a fair assumption to assume groupings of 4 and 8, no?

 

Yes, but I'm saying that 4 groups of 8 is MUCH > 8 groups of 4. And yet every floated proposal always goes the other way as if the nirvana of set-ups is to get to the smallest division sizes possible.

Among other things (some previously noted) would be that 8x4 would lessen the 'stacked' division issue. Combine the NYM, NYY, BOS, PHI quartet with the [WAS, BAL, PIT, CLE] group then you avoid creating a semi-permanent 'Group of Death' situation that World Cup fans seem to carp about every time.

Presumably the post-season format (assuming they don't decide to totally wreck this by going to 20 teams) would be each of the (four) division winners plus four WC from each.

Div winners get 1st round byes, the other eight play down to four leaving eight, then four, then two, then one ... all of which ends just in time for Thanksgiving.

[smg58]

I'm tired of baseball being run by somebody who hates baseball.

[Frayed Knot]

Let's also not lose sight of the fact that Manfred works for the owners so any changes coming down the pike aren't being driven strictly from Park Avenue on down.

If the teams and their TV partners/potential partners weren't behind at least some form of these proposed changes then there wouldn't even be a discussion on these topics.

[bmfc1]

gwreck: I wasn't being nostalgic: I was saying that he's a hypocrite because inter-league play requires more travel and if he wanted less travel, he's go back to an unbalanced schedule. He won't do that, of course, so Ohtani can be seen in "your town" at least once every two years. As FK said, this is for the owners, not the players. It's a misdirect.

[TransMonk]

Baseball is losing me as a fan more and more each year. All of this **** has XFL'd the league compared to 20 years ago. Yeah, it's baseball, I guess, but it is not what it was for the first 40 years of my life. Insert "old man yelling at clouds" meme here.

Expansion/realignment needs to be 8 divisions of 4 teams. East/West for playoffs and awards. I would advocate for teams playing everyone in their division 24 times then ONLY 3 games against EVERY other non-division team flipping home and away each season. Cut down on travel and really emphasize the divisional races and rivalries.

It would have been SOOOO much better if they would have waited to universalize the DH until any expansion/realignment occurred.

Manfred has pretty much ruined the game for me.

[Gwreck]

The Athletic had this possible alignment today, with two teams switching leagues but otherwise preserving existing divisions and leagues to the greatest extent possible while also making geographic sense.

NL East: NYM, PHI, WAS, PIT

NL North: CHC, CIN, MIL, STL

NL South: ATL, MIA, TBR, [Nashville]

NL West: ARZ, LAD, SDP, SFG

AL East: BAL, BOS, NYY, TOR

AL North: CHW, CLE, DET, MIN

AL South: COL, HOU, KCR, TEX

AL West: Las Vegas, LAA, [salt Lake City], SEA