Take a chance on Thor?

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

The Guardians have designated Syndergaard for assignment. Would you favor taking a chance through the end of the season? Would he struggle more than Carrasco?

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I'd make him the new closer

[metirish]

To what end though? Team is going nowhere.

[Edgy MD]

It's all about whether he comes with or without the salary obligations.



OK, it's not all about that, because Cohen is Cohen, but that's a participating factor.



I like the closer idea. I mean, it's an awesome turn in the narrative. I have little notion as to whether he could hack it.

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

=metirish post_id=136151 time=1693256156 user_id=72]
To what end though? Team is going nowhere.

[Edgy MD]

It's baseball. It's all going nowhere. It's not about the destination but the stories we glean and tell along the way.



If Syndergaard returns, he can crash at Mr. Met's pad for the rest of the season.

[whippoorwill]

=metirish post_id=136151 time=1693256156 user_id=72]
To what end though? Team is going nowhere.

[kcmets]

C:> Couldn't hurt, but who's to say he'd come.



It would funny if they claimed him and he said 'I ain't going

back to New York' and retired.

[Frayed Knot]

Normally you could say that he'd be a September call-up, but call-ups are now limited to two these days (28 man roster cap) and one you figure to be Lucchesi and the other likely a bat(y?).

[smg58]

I'd give him a shot. I don't see how an advanced look at a fifth starter option for next year would hurt.

[roger_that]

What's the point? Put a few extra fannies in seats this September? Remind us of when we had a pitching staff? Demonstrate how the mighty have fallen? Show how desperate we are for pitching? Highlight our barren (of pitching) minor league system? Thank him for services rendered?



What's the friggen point?

[Lefty Specialist]

I was in the 'What's the point?' camp, but..... the Mets at this juncture are just trying to get through the season. Carrasco hasn't just been awful, he's been awful while giving them no length. If Thor can give them a few good starts, if Hefner can see something he's doing wrong and give him a tweak, why not? And yeah, maybe he's just a one-inning guy at max effort these days. But it'd be interesting to find out.



As seen last night, this bullpen is toxic. Anything to limit its use and/or get a fresh arm with ML experience would be helpful, if only for my agita.

[Frayed Knot]

2023 ERA



Carrasco = 6.80

Syndergaard = 6.40

[Benjamin Grimm]

See? It would be an improvement!

[Edgy MD]

If your season's gone

And the curtain's nearly drawn

Don't you shut the door

Take a chance on Thor

If you just pick up the dough

He can take the mound

If you're in last place! Oh no!

Gotta gain some ground!



If you miss the show

When his pretty locks would flow

Give him his encore

Take a chance on Thor

If you squint your squintiest

He's the same old guy

If he fails a urine test

Don't you turn and cry

Take a chance on Thor!

(All it costs would be money ...)

Take a chance on Thor!

[MFS62]

I was thinking a parody of "Taking A Chance on Love", but I couldn't get the rhyming to work.

Later

[Bob Alpacadaca]

I just don't know how you can keep sending Cookie out there to get crushed and deplete the bullpen that already is a disaster. If the answer is inserting Joey Lucchesi, I'm OK with that, too.

[ashie62]

Doesn't look like Noah has anything left so he would fit in well here



I didn't like that nastiness that was brought about his rent/lease issue



Mets might want to reach down and sign him



Make sure Mr Met gets rent security before he moves in

[Edgy MD]

I disagree that the bullpen is a disaster. I don't think it's depleted either. I just think managers in 2023 just over-over-control the usage of their relievers. So a guy who is kept from a game is described as unavailable, as if he's observably spent, when in fact he's just under an explicit constraint.



Look at the 2022 bullpen. Thee top three pitchers — https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/diazed04.shtmlDiaz, https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ottavad01.shtmlOttavino, and https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lugose01.shtmlLugo — all finished with between 62 and 65 2/3 innings. That seems like a pretty tight distribution — suspiciously so — but maybe it's an accident.



But then you look at https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/diazed04.shtmlDiaz, https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maytr01.shtmlMay, and https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/familje01.shtmlFamilia in 2021. The Mets had a different manager, but all three finished with 59 1/3 to 62 2/3 innings. Two, in fact, finished with 62 2/3 exactly. Only Miguel Castro reached the magic 63-inning ceiling, but the Mets had neither a long-term contract nor development time invested in him, so he could be dealt with (slightly) more loosely.



The announcers are going to tell you that this guy can be relied on to go for multiple days in a row, or that guy is special because he can be used for multiple innings. I'm saying not to believe that too much. Organizations — the Mets organization anyhow — are treating most all of thier relievers by a universal standard. X number of warmups, Y number of appearances, and Z number of innings on a season.



Sometimes, I think, good scientific investigation leads to bad science at the application point.

[Cowtipper]

I'd rather them throw some of their Triple-A guys at the wall than bring Thor back. Thor might be nice for this year, those Triple-A guys might be nice for a few years down the line.

[ashie62]

Give Butto some starts

[Benjamin Grimm]

Throwing guys against a wall will likely lead to season-ending injuries.

[Bob Alpacadaca]

Edgy MD wrote: I disagree that the bullpen is a disaster. I don't think it's depleted either. I just think managers in 2023 just over-over-control the usage of their relievers. So a guy who is kept from a game is described as unavailable, as if he's observably spent, when in fact he's just under an explicit constraint. Look at the 2022 bullpen. Thee top three pitchers — https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/diazed04.shtmlDiaz, https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ottavad01.shtmlOttavino, and https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lugose01.shtmlLugo — all finished with between 62 and 65 2/3 innings. That seems like a pretty tight distribution — suspiciously so — but maybe it's an accident. But then you look at https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/diazed04.shtmlDiaz, https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maytr01.shtmlMay, and https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/familje01.shtmlFamilia in 2021. The Mets had a different manager, but all three finished with 59 1/3 to 62 2/3 innings. Two, in fact, finished with 62 2/3 exactly. Only Miguel Castro reached the magic 63-inning ceiling, but the Mets had neither a long-term contract nor development time invested in him, so he could be dealt with (slightly) more loosely. The announcers are going to tell you that this guy can be relied on to go for multiple days in a row, or that guy is special because he can be used for multiple innings. I'm saying not to believe that too much. Organizations — the Mets organization anyhow — are treating most all of thier relievers by a universal standard. X number of warmups, Y number of appearances, and Z number of innings on a season. Sometimes, I think, good scientific investigation leads to bad science at the application point.

These are good points. By depleting the bullpen, I meant that you'd be using them for six innings on those days, leaving fewer available for the next day.

[Edgy MD]

I think plenty should be available for the next day, without adhering to these hard and fast rules they seem to be adhering to regarding pacing relievers deployments across the season.

[MFS62]

Edgy MD wrote: I think plenty should be available for the next day, without adhering to these hard and fast rules they seem to be adhering to regarding pacing relievers deployments across the season.

The three most used relievers are currently around 50 G and 50 IP each, so they're on track for the numbers you mentioned above. But do they really track warmups/ not used numbers? I hadn't seen those anywhere.



Later

[roger_that]

There's a book-length study to be done (I'd buy a copy) of pitchers' injuries and pitcher use over the past six or seven decades. Sometimes I think cutting back on innings, consecutive days' use, starts, multi-inning relief appearances, etc. is the biggest scam in MLB history.



I mean, with all the care now taken, pitchers still get injured, right? Mets' pitchers in particular, but I'm sure every team has its horror stories. Yet we have gotten absurdly careful in avoiding all types of "over-use" injuries.



Can you imagine, for example, what would happen to contemporary pitchers if they were subject to the standards that applied to 1950s eight-man pitching staffs? Every team would have every pitcher (except for Warren Spahn) on the IL all season long.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

They didn't throw 98 mph fastballs and 90+ mph sliders in the 1950s.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The three most used relievers are currently around 50 G and 50 IP each, so they're on track for the numbers you mentioned above. But do they really track warmups/ not used numbers? I hadn't seen those anywhere.

They're not "official stats" but they're probably tracked internally by the coaching staff.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: They didn't throw 98 mph fastballs and 90+ mph sliders in the 1950s.

Thank you. Its a different ballgame. Like totally. And its not just the velocity, but that pitcher's go all out all game long. There's no coasting and no soft spots in the lineup because everybody can hit it out and the Bud Harrelson-like hitters are obsolete. So pitchers are throwing harder all game long. Those old timers who think they can throw their 300 innings and net 15 or 20 complete games in today's game are delusional. Sam McDowell and Sandy Koufax's k/9ip records have been passed dozens of times .Pitchrers aren't saving their best fastballs for Hank Aaron anymore. Everybody gets the pitcher's best stuff.

[Edgy MD]

But ... maybe they should.



With no data to cite (currently at hand, anyhow), my strong impression is that all the conservation of usage isn't sparing these guys the injuries. So maybe more pitchers, and more teams, might find better long-term benefits from not going full bore 100% of the time, but saving their better pitches for top batters and high-level situations, and their best ones for when those two circumstances overlap.