Nu Roolz Chatter (split from assorted IGTs)

[kcmets]

Takes away the 12-fouls-then-doulbes-battle thing though.



All proposed changes ruin the game.



I can live with the looming DH. I won't do so happily. But that's it.

[Edgy MD]

I've always been in favor of three balls, but that's a matter for another forum.



OHHHHHH!!!

[batmagadanleadoff]

=Gwreck post_id=70777 time=1625846789 user_id=56]

I'd like to see them increase the pace. The pitcher gets the ball, he throws the ball. Enforce the clock. I don't know what the ideal interval between pitches should be. 15 seconds? 20? Whatever, find a number and make it stick. If the pitcher doesn't throw the ball, it's a ball. If the batter isn't in the box, it's a strike. Reducing the milling about between pitches would go a long way.

Ben Grimm is correct. That is easily the best way to speed the game up. And it doesn't require making up new stupid rules to do so.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I don't know this for sure but it's more than that. I'd bet more way foul balls are hit, and still more harmlessly go into the stands, than at any point in the history of the game, because the pitchers even if they take too long between pitches and the batters have more padding and gloves to adjust between every pitch, are throwing nastier, harder to hit stuff than ever. The game's skills are testing the limits of its rules on every delivery.

[Edgy MD]

The recording of pitch count data has been relatively neglected through history, but I bet there's enough information to be gleaned where we can test that theory.

[Edgy MD]

Here you go. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/foul-balls-are-the-pace-of-play-problem-nobodys-talking-about/This 2019 study supports your thesis.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: Here you go. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/foul-balls-are-the-pace-of-play-problem-nobodys-talking-about/This 2019 study supports your thesis.

I remember reading that now that you posted it. That's scary because the only way baseball can fix that specific development is to go to a three-ball walk. (Or, shudder, two-strike strikeout).

[metsmarathon]

i remember reading that too. and coming to the conclusion that if there's about 12% more foul balls per game, that's, what, 6% more pitches? meaning that games are about 6% longer due to more foul balls being hit. which, for a 2 hour game is a whopping 7 minutes. only there's a lot of non-action that happens in and around pitches. so really you might be looking at foul balls adding, what, 3 extra minutes to a game. only that extra time is because of something actually happening - pitch being thrown, and hit, and landing somewhere. and maybe there's a play on it even! or it almost goes fair and generates excitement.



unlike, say, adjusting oneself, or practicing ones swing, or looking to the heavens, or reciting declarations of agnosticism, or commercial breaks.



foul pitches mean more baseball. i think we want more - or at least as much - baseball in less time, not less baseball in less time.

[batmagadanleadoff]

=metsmarathon post_id=70808 time=1625855205 user_id=83]
i remember reading that too. and coming to the conclusion that if there's about 12% more foul balls per game, that's, what, 6% more pitches? meaning that games are about 6% longer due to more foul balls being hit. which, for a 2 hour game is a whopping 7 minutes. only there's a lot of non-action that happens in and around pitches. so really you might be looking at foul balls adding, what, 3 extra minutes to a game. only that extra time is because of something actually happening - pitch being thrown, and hit, and landing somewhere. and maybe there's a play on it even! or it almost goes fair and generates excitement.



unlike, say, adjusting oneself, or practicing ones swing, or looking to the heavens, or reciting declarations of agnosticism, or commercial breaks.



foul pitches mean more baseball. i think we want more - or at least as much - baseball in less time, not less baseball in less time.

[batmagadanleadoff]

=metsmarathon post_id=70808 time=1625855205 user_id=83]




unlike, say ... reciting declarations of agnosticism ....

[MFS62]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=70811 time=1625855574 user_id=68]
=metsmarathon post_id=70808 time=1625855205 user_id=83]
unlike, say ... reciting declarations of agnosticism ....

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: Here you go. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/foul-balls-are-the-pace-of-play-problem-nobodys-talking-about/This 2019 study supports your thesis. I remember reading that now that you posted it. That's scary because the only way baseball can fix that specific development is to go to a three-ball walk. (Or, shudder, two-strike strikeout).

Or another way to fix that, and I hope I'm not giving MLB any more crazy ideas, is to count the foul ball with two strikes as a strike.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Edgy MD wrote: Here you go. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/foul-balls-are-the-pace-of-play-problem-nobodys-talking-about/This 2019 study supports your thesis. I remember reading that now that you posted it. That's scary because the only way baseball can fix that specific development is to go to a three-ball walk. (Or, shudder, two-strike strikeout). Or another way to fix that, and I hope I'm not giving MLB any more crazy ideas, is to count the foul ball with two strikes as a strike.

This would contribute to the defense advantages. Take away a ball!

[Edgy MD]

Edgy MD wrote: Here you go. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/foul-balls-are-the-pace-of-play-problem-nobodys-talking-about/This 2019 study supports your thesis. I remember reading that now that you posted it. That's scary because the only way baseball can fix that specific development is to go to a three-ball walk. (Or, shudder, two-strike strikeout).

I don't think baseball necessarily needs to fix it. I'm not sure if more foul balls are a problem or if it's necessarily a trend that won't be offset by the next adjustment.



The game is remarkably self correcting. The main thing baseball needs to do for much of this is to get out of it's own way. Retreat from the ongoing centralization and sublimation of the teams' interest in the league. Let a more competitive atmosphere return and much of much of the game will shine again.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

That may be true. But like your efficiency remark above, centralization is a thing that tends to stay.



Now, a competing a big league is what you often describe

[Frayed Knot]

1) Install/enforce pitch time limits.

I'm open to different interpretations of exactly how to do it, but do it. I was hoping that having this in the minors leagues for the past few years would slowly infuse the bigs with players who never developed the

quirks, tics, yoga poses, and dance steps between each pitch thereby making an actual clock not necessary but it's not happening fast enough so a physical clock with strict enforcement is likely needed.



2) No additional warm-up pitches for incoming relievers

Mid-inning pitching changes represent a longer break than the breaks between half-innings (roughly 2-1/2 minutes per) and this for guys who have already warmed up!!

I have no idea why this doesn't seem to even a topic for discussion with all the other silliness being discussed, but it doesn't.

And if managers truly believe that an incoming reliever is going to take a few pitches to adjust to the "new" mound that's maybe a shade different from the one in the pen, well then that's just something he's

going to have to consider when he makes a change. At worst, this beats the hell out of the three-batter minimum requirement. Rules that dictate strategy are bad rules.



3) Die mound conferences, Die!

Think about it: if you were designing the sport today no one would permit the game to be stopped while a fat old man waddles out to the mound as often as he wants to talk to players who already know how

to play the game. And even with the current limits -- five per team per game -- there's effectively no limit at all considering the exemptions allowed.

One of the NYPost writers (I forget which one) has been floating the idea for years about a fixed number of 'time-outs' per game, they can be used for mound conferences OR for replay challenges (you use

more of one then you get fewer of the other) but once they're gone, they're gone. If nothing else, this would favor the more prepared team. You brought that pitcher in now stick with him or remove him,

those are your choices. Giving him a verbal spanking or a verbal pep talk shouldn't be options.

[Edgy MD]

Also, bullpen carts are cool. Get the guy in from the outfield in 15 seconds and let him take two throws.



But in fairness, the three-batter rule has shaved off a great many of the mid-inning changes.

[Gwreck]

The Mets have a “suspended game” to make up against the Marlins on August 31. This is the game from April 11 that was stopped after 2 batters in the top of the first inning (one batter reached).



They are resuming the suspended game as a regular, 9 inning game at 1:10 PM, as the first game of a separate-admission doubleheader.



But then the otherwise regularly scheduled game at 7:10

PM…has been artificially shortened to 7 innings.



This is just madness. There is no justification whatsoever for this nonsense.

[bmfc1]

Was "Nu Roolz" the name of an '80s Boy Band?

[bmfc1]

Re: FK's #2... no adjustment period is needed between the BP mound and the game mound because each is pristine. This is a leftover from the olden days when the RP's warmed up on a mound in a cow pasture, or something akin to it. A pitching change is an excuse for a full TV TO but it should be 3 or 4 pitches, let's go, keep it moving.

[Ceetar]

Re: FK's #2... no adjustment period is needed between the BP mound and the game mound because each is pristine. This is a leftover from the olden days when the RP's warmed up on a mound in a cow pasture, or something akin to it. A pitching change is an excuse for a full TV TO but it should be 3 or 4 pitches, let's go, keep it moving.

They're not though. Zero chance they put as much effort into the bullpen mound as the real mound, especially to the exact radians and like, moisture content. They certainly don't have the (both, all) starting pitcher trek out there and make the same divot/landing holes and all the other stuff they kick around.



They could certainly half the pitches, or time it. and shorten that time. Some of these would be resolved perhaps with headsets and instant pitching changes, eliminating mound visits. a minute break would not be onerous, especially if you didn't cut to commercial, you advertised in-stream. But a lot of the time is spent between the last play and the decision to pull the pitcher. That's the 90 seconds you could cut.



But I suspect it's not breaks so much as action that's the issue we need to address. time between pitches, between batters. Most fans are used to commercial breaks, they're in everything. You break, you tweet some inane LolMets joke, you get another beer, and then the game's back.



Is ending too late a thing? we could be better about starting at 6:40 instead of 7:10. I never understood this. I get that the ratings are better in "prime time" but presumably people would rather miss the beginning than the end, and this makes the prime hours higher leverage too.

[Frayed Knot]

=bmfc1 post_id=70925 time=1625934866 user_id=73]
Re: FK's #2... no adjustment period is needed between the BP mound and the game mound because each is pristine. This is a leftover from the olden days when the RP's warmed up on a mound in a cow pasture, or something akin to it. A pitching change is an excuse for a full TV TO but it should be 3 or 4 pitches, let's go, keep it moving.

[MFS62]

Frayed Knot wrote: 1) Install/enforce pitch time limits. I'm open to different interpretations of exactly how to do it, but do it. I was hoping that having this in the minors leagues for the past few years would slowly infuse the bigs with players who never developed the quirks, tics, yoga poses, and dance steps between each pitch thereby making an actual clock not necessary but it's not happening fast enough so a physical clock with strict enforcement is likely needed. 2) No additional warm-up pitches for incoming relievers Mid-inning pitching changes represent a longer break than the breaks between half-innings (roughly 2-1/2 minutes per) and this for guys who have already warmed up!! I have no idea why this doesn't seem to even a topic for discussion with all the other silliness being discussed, but it doesn't. And if managers truly believe that an incoming reliever is going to take a few pitches to adjust to the "new" mound that's maybe a shade different from the one in the pen, well then that's just something he's going to have to consider when he makes a change. At worst, this beats the hell out of the three-batter minimum requirement. Rules that dictate strategy are bad rules. 3) Die mound conferences, Die! Think about it: if you were designing the sport today no one would permit the game to be stopped while a fat old man waddles out to the mound as often as he wants to talk to players who already know how to play the game. And even with the current limits -- five per team per game -- there's effectively no limit at all considering the exemptions allowed. One of the NYPost writers (I forget which one) has been floating the idea for years about a fixed number of 'time-outs' per game, they can be used for mound conferences OR for replay challenges (you use more of one then you get fewer of the other) but once they're gone, they're gone. If nothing else, this would favor the more prepared team. You brought that pitcher in now stick with him or remove him, those are your choices. Giving him a verbal spanking or a verbal pep talk shouldn't be options.

These are good ways to shorten games. #1 is the best. If they just did that, it might diminish the need for #2 or #3.



Later

[bmfc1]

All of these are simple solutions, even if they require some chatter with the Union. The same with losing :30 seconds of commercial time per half inning (less revenue has to be made up elsewhere but it can be done and I fully expect "BET MGM" patches in a year or two). That's why I don't take any of the phony solutions to game length seriously such as 7 inning games.

[Frayed Knot]

And while I'm certainly not going to campaign against shorter inning breaks,

a) it's not going to happen. But also it's not really the problem

While commercial length is up from the 70s & 80s games that many of us grew up with, they haven't extended them in many years now (maybe 20? - and in fact have tried to more rigidly enforce those

times in the last 2-3 season) and yet game times continue to climb each year.



So the problem must obviously lie elsewhere, and while part of it seems to be pitch counts during this three true outcomes era, the most obvious target needs to be dead time when the ball is theoretically

supposed to be in play. It's like baseball has slowly morphed over the years from a game where the ball was assumed to be in play unless stated otherwise, now it almost seems like the ball NOT being

live is considered to be the normal state of affairs and 'live time' the exception.

[bmfc1]

Please explain how shaving :30 seconds/half-inning won't help solve the problem. Even it's "not really the problem" and the problem(s) "obviously lie elsewhere", it can and should be part of the solution.

[Ceetar]

Please explain how shaving :30 seconds/half-inning won't help solve the problem. Even it's "not really the problem" and the problem(s) "obviously lie elsewhere", it can and should be part of the solution.

We don't even have a real solid definition for 'the problem' or what solution we're even looking for. I'll take fewer commercial breaks in everything, for sure, but no one really cares if the games 3:03 instead of 3:10.

[Frayed Knot]

[answering bmfc]: Because the between innings commercials aren't causing longer games or increased dead time.

And I'd welcome it but we might as well ask for a 60 or 90 second reduction.

The beast needs to be fed and commercial time is its main menu.

[bmfc1]

FK: I could rebut, refute, and this would continue ad nauseam but there's too much venom in the CPF. I'd rather get mad at Lindor than continue this as it's akin to yelling at clouds so I will step back.

[Edgy MD]

Well, duh. We play "God Bless America" every time there's a pitching change, and then the broadcaster won't be allowed to cut to a commercial.



Why do I have to solve everything?