Luis Rojas on the Hot Seat

[Ceetar]

yes, it's the manager's job to get his players vaccinated and not play them hurt and remove them when they're hurt and manager their workload, their prep, and all that, so they don't get hurt.



He's just as much a pansy as every other manager across the country that's not mandating vaccines for his workers. Even more so maybe, because there are tangible benefits to reaching 85% that he could help them reach. He's failing the 60 or so percent of them, including Lindor, that ARE vaccinated and are still being limited in some of their freedoms around the ballpark.



He's not finding a way to win, the players are. Mostly the pitchers. In part because of the changes to the baseball. He's choosing the right relievers but mostly they've ALL been effective. It's not like he's piecing together innings (especially with the nonsense 7 inning stuff) with luck and matchups. He didn't sign these guys. He should win manager of the year because Jacob deGrom is literally unhittable? please. Give it to Hefner if anything.

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

=Ceetar post_id=70437 time=1625610291 user_id=102]
yes, it's the manager's job to get his players vaccinated and not play them hurt and remove them when they're hurt and manager their workload, their prep, and all that, so they don't get hurt.



He's just as much a pansy as every other manager across the country that's not mandating vaccines for his workers. Even more so maybe, because there are tangible benefits to reaching 85% that he could help them reach. He's failing the 60 or so percent of them, including Lindor, that ARE vaccinated and are still being limited in some of their freedoms around the ballpark.



He's not finding a way to win, the players are. Mostly the pitchers. In part because of the changes to the baseball. He's choosing the right relievers but mostly they've ALL been effective. It's not like he's piecing together innings (especially with the nonsense 7 inning stuff) with luck and matchups. He didn't sign these guys. He should win manager of the year because Jacob deGrom is literally unhittable? please. Give it to Hefner if anything.

[Gwreck]

“Pansy” is not an acceptable word to use in that manner.

[Ceetar]

yellow-bellied chicken shit. how's that?

[Edgy MD]

What's wrong with yellow bellies, anyhow? I never got that one. Is there a connection between jaundice and cowardice?



And does shit even have a belly? Is chicken shit peculiar in that way among all the fauna shits?

[metsmarathon]

management cannot force labor to undergo medical procedures. in almost all circumstances. there are likely very specific rules as to what he can and cannot talk about or even advocate for in that regard, pertaining to covid.



he may not even be allowed to officially know who on his team is vaccinated right now and who is not.



i say this from personal experience. i am currently in a supervisory role. i am not permitted to try to ascertain the vaccination status of my employees. but then, i'm probably a chickenshit pansy too.

[Edgy MD]

And your avatar makes the color of your belly quite undeniable.



SAD!

[Lefty Specialist]

=metsmarathon post_id=70478 time=1625668255 user_id=83]
management cannot force labor to undergo medical procedures. in almost all circumstances. there are likely very specific rules as to what he can and cannot talk about or even advocate for in that regard, pertaining to covid.



he may not even be allowed to officially know who on his team is vaccinated right now and who is not.



i say this from personal experience. i am currently in a supervisory role. i am not permitted to try to ascertain the vaccination status of my employees. but then, i'm probably a chickenshit pansy too.

[Benjamin Grimm]

There's a hospital in Texas that's firing people who refuse to get vaccinated.



I'm pretty certain that Luis Rojas can't force his players to get vaccinated. And the MLB Players Association would have something to say about the matter as well. It's a can of worms that they're clearly reluctant to open.



But regarding the topic at hand, is Luis Rojas a good manager, it can be very hard to say. We see the in-game moves (which I often disagree with) and the media relations (which I don't really care about unless it becomes a distraction that affects the on-field results) but we don't see the behind-the-scenes stuff. Has Rojas done anything tangible to coax the Replace-Mets to do as well as they did? Or was he lucky? I can't say either way. Regarding Manager of the Year, that award often seems to go to the manager of the team that's done better than expected. If Rojas wins the division with a injury-ridden team, he'll have a good shot, I guess.

[Lefty Specialist]

Rojas is low-key, except when he's bitching to umpires, which he does entirely too often. That seems to suit this team. It seems like he kind of gets out of the way and lets them play. Not sure that's Manager of the Year stuff.

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

Lefty Specialist wrote: Rojas is low-key, except when he's bitching to umpires, which he does entirely too often. That seems to suit this team. It seems like he kind of gets out of the way and lets them play. Not sure that's Manager of the Year stuff.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/orioles-manager-earl-weaver-argues-with-the-umpires-during-a-home-at-picture-id159755323?s=612x612>



Hall-of-Famer Earl Weaver, two-time Manager of the Year, disagrees!



Honestly, I've never heard about his being excessive in needling umpires. Not disputing you, just saying I've never heard that.

[Edgy MD]

Earl Weaver was a brilliant strategist and leader who turned the Orioles into an organizational model from top to bottom, but there's a strong argument that his combativeness worked against him, alongside his high self-regard.

[MFS62]

Edgy MD wrote: Earl Weaver was a brilliant strategist and leader who turned the Orioles into an organizational model from top to bottom, but there's a strong argument that his combativeness worked against him, alongside his high self-regard.

SABR says Paul Richards and Jim McLaughlin built the "Oriole Way" model.

https://sabr.org/bioproj/topic/the-oriole-way/https://sabr.org/bioproj/topic/the-oriole-way/

Later, Weaver was one of those who used it at the major league level. Frank Cashen learned it there, and implemented it with the Mets when he came to New York.



Later

Edited July 7, 2021 by Guest

[Lefty Specialist]

=Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=70486 time=1625676031 user_id=119]
Honestly, I've never heard about his being excessive in needling umpires. Not disputing you, just saying I've never heard that.

[MFS62]

Edgy MD wrote: Earl Weaver was a brilliant strategist and leader who turned the Orioles into an organizational model from top to bottom, but there's a strong argument that his combativeness worked against him, alongside his high self-regard. SABR says Paul Richards and Jim McLaughlin built the "Oriole Way" model. https://sabr.org/bioproj/topic/the-oriole-way/https://sabr.org/bioproj/topic/the-oriole-way/ Later, Weaver was one of those who used it at the major league level. Frank Cashen learned it there, and implemented it with the Mets when he came to New York. Later

[Edgy MD]

I wouldn't call it excessive. I'd just call it riding.

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

Lefty Specialist wrote: =Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=70486 time=1625676031 user_id=119] Honestly, I've never heard about his being excessive in needling umpires. Not disputing you, just saying I've never heard that.

Watch any SNY game. He's constantly moaning. He's not in their face like Weaver was, but he's always griping about ball and strike calls from the dugout. Gary has mentioned this more than once this year, even comparing him to Bobby Cox, who was legendary in bitching about every call.

[metsmarathon]

i mean, to me, the best overall measure of the success of a manager is, are they getting the best out of their team? are the results more or less than you should expect, based on the talent they have available to them.



the mets are in first place, having run through an assortment of replacement and sub-replacement type players in stead of the cores of their offense and pitching staff. if you can't credit the manager with any of that, well then what the hell is the point of having a good manager, any way? and well then you certainly couldn't get upset an your manager if the team is underperforming, right?



are there some tactical decisions that could be improved? sure. what's the WAR on those levels of decisions? what's the WPA? i think those are the parts that are easiest to see and react to, but over the course of a long season, how many games are strictly won or lost based on those choices? (this sounds like the start of an interesting study, actually.)



i mean, the bottom line is, the ingredients are all there for an epic collapse for the team. injuries up and down the roster and over and over again. noteworthy player getting popped on PEDs for the season. trade of two key young players, incoming star on a massive contract. new player gets hurt before the season begins. star player with massive contract fist-fights with incumbent player; media circus ensues. another media circus comes and goes. star players struggle with meeting performance expectations. greatest pitcher in the history of sport goes up and down with minor injuries a few times.



and through it all, the team has really come together and stayed together. and played well and played with resilience. they don't quit on games, innings, seasons, or at bats. the manager has to get some of that credit. not all, of course. but definitely some. he's the one responsible for keeping the pieces that he's given all moving in the right direction after all.



and in the grand scheme of things, yeah, man, i'd rather have that then making sure we don't miss that one challenge in that one game that one time, or rolled the wrong middle reliever dice, or did or didn't bunt when he maybe could have or shouldn't have.



yeaaah, you could say it's all degrom. but he's not pitching every game and he's not pitching every inning when he does pitch in games. the manager is making it work. even with his team's embarrassingly low vaccination rate that he literally has no control over. (you think maybe the owner and gm should take more of the blame there, perhaps... hmmm...??? why isn't jeremy hefner out there jabbing his pitchers while he's out there visiting the damn mound? why isn't he doing HIS JOB? he sucks too, amrite...!?)

[Edgy MD]

It's actually all measurable with data.



A dude lands on the team. At that point, there are any number of projection systems which plot out his career from that point onward. Plot his mean projected outcomes as a trend line, and then as he undertakes his career on your team, plot his actual outcomes under Manager X against it.



Does that mean that ever performance above and below his projected trend line is 100% the manager's work? Of course not. But when you start to measure the differences over time through the performances of 25, 50, 100 players under his tenure, perhaps patterns can emerge. Players play 17% above their projected career tracks when under the supervision of Manager X, but 11% under their projected career tracks when under the supervision of Manager Y.



There are assumptions and luck baked into the pie, but it's data driven, and frankly, luck and assumptions and arbitrary decisions by scorers or stadium builders play into most outcomes. As the data compiles, hopefully most of these factors cancel each other out.



You can measure coaches this way as well, minor league managers, scouts, execs.



It's not perfect, but we can go back on forth on this manager or that until the end of time. It's about time somebody brought some science to it.



[fimg=600]http://people.duke.edu/~rnau/411trend_files/image004.png[/fimg]



[FIMG=600]https://1r65612jvqxn8fcup46pve6b-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/baseline-statistics-full-graph-clear-impact.jpg[/FIMG]