Doc '85 or Pedro '00?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Who would you rather have? That's what Tim Britton, writing for The Athletic, ponders today.



I never deep-dived this topic even though I'd thought of it. I just assumed that Pedro '00 was hands-down, better than Doc prime because that's what all the writers seemed to be saying. I just went along, acknowledging that Pedro hadda be out of this world to be better than Doc85. But Britton has some points to make in support of Doc's case.



https://theathletic.com/1896878/2020/06/30/who-would-you-rather-have-1985-dwight-gooden-or-2000-pedro-martinez/https://theathletic.com/1896878/2020/06/30/who-would-you-rather-have-1985-dwight-gooden-or-2000-pedro-martinez/

[smg58]

You do have to take Doc's 276 innings to Pedro's 217 into consideration.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Do we know what happens in ensuing years? In a close contest I take the 19 year old

[batmagadanleadoff]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Do we know what happens in ensuing years? In a close contest I take the 19 year old

I think Britton's asking only about those specific seasons.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I'll prolly take Doc anywhoo. He was more exciting to watch

[kcmets]

Doc '85 with a six of tall boys and an 8-ball, please. Electric!

[TransMonk]

Doc.

[LWFS]

I'm partial to Doc. But it's worth noting that Pedro was staring down the barrel of an absurd, inflated amount of offense nearly every time he took the mound.

[batmagadanleadoff]

=LWFS post_id=39624 time=1593555134 user_id=84]
I'm partial to Doc. But it's worth noting that Pedro was staring down the barrel of an absurd, inflated amount of offense nearly every time he took the mound.

[Ceetar]

37.5 K%. That's absurd. (Cole somehow topped this last year for the new SP record, 39.9)



Only Benitez and Wagner had a better rate in '99.



Big Unit was at 33.7



third for purely SP was Tim Hudson. 22.8.



He was flat out unhittable. 9 home runs all season. That's good for 200th. (30 teams, 5 man rotations..150 pitchers.) 295th in slugging.

[Fman99]

I'm taking the Met over the non-Met but that's just me.

[G-Fafif]

http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2020/06/30/the-last-ace-from-the-deck/Swannie ‘78.

[nymr83]

Doc "wins" on the innings, but Pedro was better per batter

[smg58]

Pedro's 291 ERA+ is, well, ridiculous (Gooden's 85 was 229, and Gibson's 68 was 258). But starting pitchers were being asked to do less in 2000 compared to the 80s (when starters were doing less than in Gibson's era -- Gibson's 1.12 ERA came over 304 innings). I think you have to take the demands placed on starting pitchers into account.



Here's some interesting number play, multiplying IP by ERA+ and dividing by 100:

Gooden 632

Martinez 631

[Edgy MD]

What's really meaningful is the innings Gooden pitched that Martinez did not were frequently the hardest innings — the late-and-close, high-leverage situations that usually go to a closer, and which typically include no weak hitters whatsoever.



On the other hand, Martinez was an American League pitcher at the turn of the century. He didn't face too many weak hitters at all.



Which is why I'm going for Martinez 99 over Gooden 85. I'd probably go for Seaver 71 over Gooden 85 too. And the fact is that, having been 18 at the time, looking back on it now, watching Gooden pitch in 1985 was as magical as I could have imagined anything being. It was ripe avocados, a hit of laughing gas, and a kiss from the homecoming queen all in one, every fifth day.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I'll take Doc85 for the season but for just one game for all the marbles, I'll go with Pedro00.

[LWFS]

Ah, fuggit. Little Kid Me goes kicking and screaming, but Team LWFS casts its collective vote for Lil' Petey.