Shitty Field

[Edgy MD]

Yes, a canyon makes every pitcher look better, but it makes guys whose main vulnerability is the deep fly look better still.



And they don't make every pitcher look better to the extent that a bandbox makes every hitter look better, but helps lesser hitters improve more than better hitters.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Caverns reduce offense. There's no getting around that. The less runs, the more luck. It's no coincidence that the Dome Astros spent virtually their entire history not straying too far from .500 ball.

[nymr83]

do you have data to back your assertions up?

[MFS62]

Rip this fucking place down and build a place where they can win. (And a place where they can score enough runs to be exciting would help, too.)

Later

[smg58]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=6361 time=1554393884 user_id=68]I'm sure Jimmy Wynn was quite pleased to have to play in the Astrodome for so long. It might've cost him a spot in Cooperstown.

[Edgy MD]

=MFS62 post_id=6436 time=1554411007 user_id=60]
Rip this fucking place down and build a place where they can win. (And a place where they can score enough runs to be exciting would help, too.)

Later

[G-Fafif]

Article explores how Mets can't score at Citi Field, Mets open at Citi Field by not scoring. That's some prescient journalism right there.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Brilliant! What does 'view the page source' mean? Right-click anywhere on the page, and click "View Source" It will show the page in html.

yeah, but the article isn't in there? You're actually seeing the text?

[dgwphotography]

Frayed Knot wrote: What does 'view the page source' mean? Right-click anywhere on the page, and click "View Source" It will show the page in html. yeah, but the article isn't in there? You're actually seeing the text?

Yes - I read the entire article - Each paragraph is between the

tags

[dgwphotography]

In the source, you'll see '

' that begins the hidden part.

[Ceetar]

In the source, you'll see ' ' that begins the hidden part.

thanks. I guess I suck at scrolling. I searched for the text above it but it didn't seem to continue.

[A Boy Named Seo]

The article says the the wind seems to pour in hard and low from CF and push hard to RF. The players notice it. Nimmo says it reminds him of the goddamn Wyoming plains.



Citi faces more towards the bay than Shea. They said Sandy was looking at architectural changes that could knock the wind down. Maybe they need a big ass barrier between the end of the left field bleachers and the scoreboard. #BuildTheWall



But like FK said, that shouldnt' affect exit velo, so it seems there might 2 issues at play.



https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Nn0AAOSwScdZyAPc/s-l1600.jpg>

[A Boy Named Seo]

Also, good call, DGW. Hilarious that the page source shows where we shouldn't be able to read. LOL

[Ceetar]

Why are we so sure it wouldn't affect EV? It seems to infer that most of the 'wind' is out in the outfield, but is that true? It hasn't been windy any of the times I've been on the field, but swinging into the wind has to impact bat speed right?



Humidity would be the other thing, but you'd hope they'd be able to measure that?

[batmagadanleadoff]

=Ceetar post_id=6488 time=1554485754 user_id=102]
Why are we so sure it wouldn't affect EV? It seems to infer that most of the 'wind' is out in the outfield, but is that true? It hasn't been windy any of the times I've been on the field, but swinging into the wind has to impact bat speed right?



Humidity would be the other thing, but you'd hope they'd be able to measure that?

[Ceetar]

Play ball.

[batmagadanleadoff]

=Ceetar post_id=6491 time=1554486580 user_id=102]Play ball.

[Ceetar]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=6495 time=1554487466 user_id=68]
=Ceetar post_id=6491 time=1554486580 user_id=102]Play ball.

[batmagadanleadoff]

=Ceetar post_id=6496 time=1554487818 user_id=102]
=batmagadanleadoff post_id=6495 time=1554487466 user_id=68]
=Ceetar post_id=6491 time=1554486580 user_id=102]Play ball.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Guest

[Ceetar]

wrong.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I don't even know what's to argue. It's a good article about a mysterious but real thing.



What I though was interesting was the bit about how moving the fences in had the unintended consequences of subtracting whatever offensive benefits a huge home field provided: Fewer balls dropping for hits. That to me sucks.



When CF first opened I felt like they actually built it for Jose Reyes, who in the old days would drive balls right to the areas of the park that were largest, perhaps resulting in more exciting baseball-- triples and inside the park dingers. I certainly prefer as a fan seeing those to home runs even if they're less offensively impactful. But Reyes was about to experience a downturn and the price paid for it was too many warning track fries for Wright.



I do think the "ultimate solution" might be to knock the damn thing over and try again somewhere else but that's 20 years down the road at earliest.

[smg58]

Like I said before, the article mentions disparities with the Mets hitters but says nothing about the splits with their pitchers. Either he forgot about half the story, or that half of the story doesn't suggest as dramatic a park effect. If the latter is true, there is an explanation that goes beyond the park.



So the Mets hit worse at Citi Field. They also have hit pretty well on the road, and the team has been more or less as good on the road as at home. So they have done a few things right.



The exit velocity is cited as a factor. The bat spends a very small amount of time exposed to the wind, so I don't see how that could be affected. But I do agree it's kind of bizarre.



"Since 2012, the Mets have the highest fly-ball percentage in the National League"

NOW we have something. We hit more fly balls than anybody else, and play in the worst park for fly balls in the league. With the fences moved in the park has lost its boost in doubles and triples, so if you can't clear the fence consistently you're going to fly out a lot with not much to show for it. And last year was so bad in part because we had three all-or-nothing swingers in Conforto, Bruce, and Frazier who, because they were compromised by injury, couldn't produce even a mediocre amount of runs. We appear to have adopted the exactly wrong philosophy to fit our park.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: I don't even know what's to argue. It's a good article about a mysterious but real thing.

There's nothing here to argue, really. Only to discuss. Except for Ceetar, who can't see past the thread title and is having mental breakdowns over it. He's one post away from telling us how beautiful the Citi Field scoreboards are.



And it looks like this thread has morphed into two separate discussions: one about the WSJ article itself and one about cavernous stadiums in general. Not parks that might slightly favor pitchers, but cavernous stadiums like the original CF and the Astrodome.



And as for those inside the parkers and triples, it's true that cavernous stadiums will yield a few more of those, but not nearly enough of them to overcome the would-be doubles and HRs that would be lost -- converted into outs because the outfielders have an extra 10 or 30 feet to run those balls down.

[Ceetar]

Lol. You're the one losing it because I changed the subject of my post. And then invented a story about David Wright. You seem to only want to discuss it as some sort of absolute disaster instead of a ballpark effect quirk.



Mets have kept the balls in different places to no (apparent) effect, but maybe all of flushing is super humid.



Also you can note that without this unanticipated effect, there's a good chance the original dimensions of Citi Field are pretty much fine.

[Methead]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: When CF first opened I felt like they actually built it for Jose Reyes, who in the old days would drive balls right to the areas of the park that were largest

This is exactly what I have always thought as well



Although it doesn't make much sense to design a ballpark to suit just one player, whose greatest asset is his speed, making right field huge when you've got another young guy whose greatest asset is his right field gap power, but then again all my friends and neighbors have heard me rant about this many times

[dgwphotography]

This thread is what happens when there's no game on an in-season Friday night.

[nymr83]

This thread is what happens when there's no game on an in-season Friday night.

the day after the home opener is an offday ..why? so that if it rains out you can play the next day and everyone who bought a ticket can still say they were at the "opener"? that is a good reason not to play on a Wednesday. on a friday? it sucks.

[Gwreck]

the day after the home opener is an offday ..why? so that if it rains out you can play the next day and everyone who bought a ticket can still say they were at the "opener"? that is a good reason not to play on a Wednesday. on a friday? it sucks.

That is precisely the reason that opening day typically has an off day afterwards. And given that the Mets sell out opening day, every year, at a premium price on every ticket, it seems that there are quite a few people who care about that.



The Mets could presumably have their home opener as a Friday day game, with the off day on Thursday instead. That also though requires that the first Saturday game be a night game so the opener could be rescheduled as a doubleheader that Saturday. The Mets home opener was a Friday in 2016 and that'd be my preference.