Can You Cano?

[RealityChuck]

Note that Cano's suspension had nothing to do with actual steroids; he was found to have a diuretic that was banned because it can be used to hide steroid use, but that doesn't seem to be the case: it was on the banned list and Cano used it without realizing it.

The best way is to think of this as two trades: Cano for Bruce and Swarzak is one. Not all that terrible; all the players involved are going into the down phase of their careers.

The second is Diaz for Dunn, Kelenic, and Bautista. Diaz is a big plus, probably their best closer since Billy Wagner. Dunn and Kelenic have a lot of potential, but by the time they make it to the majors, the chance will have passed.

Getting Diaz is a big plus for the team. Cano is probably equal or better than Bruce.

It may not be a great trade, but it's far from terrible.

[Guest 41Forever]

Benjamin Grimm wrote:

No way is he going to wear No. 24 in a Mets uniform!!!!

[seawolf17]

Yeah, that's weird. I wonder why they 'shopped him in 24. He wore 22 in Seattle.

[Benjamin Grimm]

He looks much happier to be a Yankee than to be a Met.

[Benjamin Grimm]

RealityChuck wrote: The best way is to think of this as two trades: Cano for Bruce and Swarzak is one. Not all that terrible; all the players involved are going into the down phase of their careers. The second is Diaz for Dunn, Kelenic, and Bautista. Diaz is a big plus, probably their best closer since Billy Wagner. Dunn and Kelenic have a lot of potential, but by the time they make it to the majors, the chance will have passed.

I think that's a reasonable take. And Cano won't be nearly as much of an albatross if the reports that the Mariners are sending $60 million to the Mets are true.

[Methead]

The feeling is fading somewhat, but I felt sick about this deal last night.

Part of it is I really have a good feeling about Kelenic, and he's one kid I was really excited to watch develop through the system. I don't even think it will take that long.

That, and I can't believe I'm going to be sitting here rooting for Cano.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

seawolf17 wrote: Yeah, that's weird. I wonder why they 'shopped him in 24. He wore 22 in Seattle.

He was 24 as a Yankee

Diaz can step into his customary 39, left vacant by Blevvy

[Benjamin Grimm]

24 is retired in Seattle for Ken Griffey Jr.

I'd be okay with Cano wearing it as a Met. I love Willie Mays, but it's time to take that number out of mothballs.

[Centerfield]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: 24 is retired in Seattle for Ken Griffey Jr. I'd be okay with Cano wearing it as a Met. I love Willie Mays, but it's time to take that number out of mothballs.

Rickey Henderson wore it. No reason not to give it to Cano.

Except that he will fail his physical and will never be a Met so who cares about his number anyway.

[Mex17]

Mex17 wrote: Food for thought here. . . Over the remainder of his contract, Cano needs to average 106 hits in order to reach 3,000 and 18 HR to reach 400. He did get nabbed for PEDs once, but it was long after the "steroid era" where a lot of achievements were called into question. If he hits those milestones with only the one PED blemish and maintains something close to his current career .304/.355/.493 slashline, is he legitimately in the conversaion for Cooperstown?

Cano is a borderline (perhaps likely) Hall of Famer. You waive the Mays rule for him.

[Edgy MD]

Mays waived the Mays rule for Henderson.

[Frayed Knot]

The best way is to think of this as two trades: Cano for Bruce and Swarzak is one.

I was thinking of this as two separate deals as well.
If it were just Cano for the two vets I think most would be at least semi-OK with it and it certainly (likely anyway) makes us a better team for '19-'20


Which leaves the remaining question as to whether Dunn + Kelenic are too much for an established, and top line, closer.
You question the idea of giving up not just a 1st round pick but a #6 overall, and doing so so quickly. That said he's a loonggg way from the majors (220 rookie lg ABs to date) and the further away a
prospect is from the majors the higher he needs to be in potential in order to pry loose a known quantity. Dunn was a somewhat lower pick (#19th) and is further along but hasn't had a great track
record to this point (high ERAs until his final 9 starts at PSL this summer).

[metirish]

Jeff Passean

The Mets - Mariners deal as @joelsherman said , won't get done today and is likely to be pushed to Monday, sources told Yahoo Sports. The question is how much money Seattle sends to cover Robinson Cano's contract, and sources say it's likely to be in the mid $20 million range


Well, that's a lot less than has been reported earlier.....maybe the whole thing will still fall asunder

[Guest d'Kong76]

$60 million made this idea somewhat reasonable, $20 million makes this
a sucker deal in favor of SEA.

[A Boy Named Seo]

The 2 separate deals thing doesn't hold water for me cause I don't think the Mariners do the Edwin Diaz "deal" unless the Mets do the the Cano "deal". Also, if it's $20M dollars coming back with Cano, then LOLfuckingMETS

[Mex17]

If the Mariners are only kicking in $20 million than Kenenic cannot be in the deal. Why would the Mets include him if they are taking on $100 million in salary for a guy who is 36? If they are doing that, then the reason for Diaz is as an enticement for the Mets bailing Seattle out of the majority of the contract.

[Frayed Knot]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: The 2 separate deals thing doesn't hold water for me cause I don't think the Mariners do the Edwin Diaz "deal" unless the Mets do the the Cano "deal".

And I don't Actually think of it as two separate deals either (nor, I suspect, does Chuck). I was more just sort of mentally breaking it down that way for analysis purposes.
It may be possible to talk the M's into dealing just Diaz alone but the price would tend to be higher in that case and they'd have fewer incentives to make it.

[Centerfield]

Please let this deal fall apart over money. Please please.

Make them pay the whole salary Jeff! Not a penny less! Don’t you dare open that wallet!

[Centerfield]

The best way is to think of this as two trades: Cano for Bruce and Swarzak is one. I was thinking of this as two separate deals as well. If it were just Cano for the two vets I think most would be at least semi-OK with it and it certainly (likely anyway) makes us a better team for '19-'20 Which leaves the remaining question as to whether Dunn + Kelenic are too much for an established, and top line, closer. You question the idea of giving up not just a 1st round pick but a #6 overall, and doing so so quickly. That said he's a loonggg way from the majors (220 rookie lg ABs to date) and the further away a prospect is from the majors the higher he needs to be in potential in order to pry loose a known quantity. Dunn was a somewhat lower pick (#19th) and is further along but hasn't had a great track record to this point (high ERAs until his final 9 starts at PSL this summer).

No. This is wrong. If it were Cano alone, no one would touch him with a ten foot pole. Shouldn’t anyway.

Swarzak and Bruce combine for what, $30 million? No way you sign a 36 year old PED user to a 5 year $90 million deal. Giving him a 2 year deal is too much. We talk about spending wisely. This is absolutely the polar opposite.

So they have to give us Diaz to even consider taking this on. Diaz and Cano are consideration for each other. They cannot be separated.

So effectively, you are giving up Kelenic, and Dunn, and Batista and taking on the non Bruce/Swarzak portion of the Cano deal, for Edwin Diaz. A closer.

This is fucking insane.

[metirish]

Martino towing the company line now about the money

Whatever the money I pretty much like this trade for the Mets, even though a lot of GM's don't. Bvw stirring it up and trying to win. Which is what he said he would do. That's about to get really interesting

[Frayed Knot]

No. This is wrong. If it were Cano alone, no one would touch him with a ten foot pole. Shouldn’t anyway. Swarzak and Bruce combine for what, $30 million? No way you sign a 36 year old PED user to a 5 year $90 million deal. Giving him a 2 year deal is too much. We talk about spending wisely. This is absolutely the polar opposite.

I meant to write that if it were Bruce + Swarzak for Cano + $$$$ then some would be OK with it ... depending on the amount of cash of course.


And, again (although you may have been already typing prior to my 9:48 response), I didn't mean to imply that they were Actual separate deals, only that I found that it helped to mentally think of them that way.

[Centerfield]

metirish wrote: Martino towing the company line now about the money Whatever the money I pretty much like this trade for the Mets, even though a lot of GM's don't. Bvw stirring it up and trying to win. Which is what he said he would do. That's about to get really interesting

It’s a shocking quote.

[metirish]

Shocking indeed , btw that last line should read "Mets about to get really interesting" , my mistake

[Mex17]

$120M - ($26M for Bruce + $8M for Swarzak +#20M from Seattle) = $66 million. Over 5 years that is a $13.2 AAV. . .too much for a guy who is 36 now. Diaz offsets that, that's fair. Them then getting Kelenic on top of it all skews it too much in their favor.

[Frayed Knot]

And then there's Ackert (NYDN) who writes: The Mets would also be dumping the salaries of Jay Bruce, who is owed $28 million over the next two years, and Anthony Swarzak, who is in the final year of his two-year, $14 million deal with the Mets, onto the Mariners’ payroll. That roughly leaves $85 million of Cano’s salary remaining over the next five years and the Mets sources said the Mariners will cover much of that.

[emphasis mine]


That's why I can't get too crazy over the details of these things until we actually, y'know, KNOW the details of these things. Like, for instance, how many millions is "much of" 85 million? The implication there is more than half but I don't know that.
I mentioned in another thread (or maybe earlier in this one ... I can't keep track) that Nimmo was said for a time to be included in the Jay Bruce deal ... except that he wound up not being included.

[A Boy Named Seo]

FK - I knew you didn’t mean that it was actually two separate deals. I was saying that even mentally splitting them up didn’t work (for me) because neither team would agree to one piece without the other IMO.

And I agree on waiting to find out about the money but numbers floated call for speculation and we all are. $60M coming this way makes me only normal hate it. $20M coming this way is a cocktail of hatred and anger and hopelessness that I will choke on when I drink it this season anyway. Hopefully good news emerges.

[Mex17]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: $60M coming this way makes me only normal hate it. $20M coming this way is a cocktail of hatred and anger and hopelessness that I will choke on when I drink it this season anyway.

But you can't detach that from Kelenec. Either the Mets taking on the money, thereby alleviating Seattle of the financial burden, equates to less players of lesser quality going to Seattle, or Seatlle forking big money over means that they are compensated for that with a top prospect like Kelenic. You cannot quibble over the amount of dollars that the Mariners kick in without tethering Kelenic directly to those negotiations. That is how these types of trades are supposed to work.

[Centerfield]

The remaining years left on the Cano contract are foolish. Even if you cut it in half it’s too much. It’s still a bad trade at $60 million.

At $20 million it’s incomprehensible.

Full no trade clause. Those trades are supposed to be one sided.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I read somewhere that the Commissioner's office has to approve any transaction in which more than $1 million moves from one team to another, and that they only do these kinds of approvals during normal business hours, which means that this thing won't get done until Monday at the earliest. Which gives us an extra two days for this to potentially fall apart for one reason or another, not that I think that's likely to happen.

[Centerfield]

I’ve resigned myself to the fact that this trade will happen. Nothing to do now but to hope for the best. Maybe Cano will stay productive for three years and Diaz will be as good as advertised.

Selfishly I hope that I don’t have to watch Kelenic turn into a star for Seattle, but it seems wrong to root against a kid that had nothing to do with this trade. So at least I can take solace that he’s in the AL West.

If there is one positive, it seems the overwhelming thought, even among those who like the trade, is that this move must be followed by a commitment to win by the Wilpons. No more excuses. Sign some elite players.

The bad news is that I’ve lost all confidence in Brodie Van Wagenen. If he can’t win a trade where he has this much leverage, how badly will he be fleeced on an even playing field?

But we’ll see. It’s one move. In fact, it’s not even one move yet. Long offseason. Maybe we end up with Harper still.