Let's huddle here and talk... Syndergaard

[Mex17]

smg58 wrote: There was an old line attributed, I believe, to Bill Veeck, that if you listen to the fans you wind up sitting with them. That's a great line.

Ironically, Veeck was the same guy who did this. . .

https://baseballhall.org/discover-more/stories/inside-pitch/grandstand-managers-night

[Frayed Knot]

Fman99 wrote: I think trading him for anything less than one of the 10-15 best hitters in baseball would be a tragic error.

It would depend on what they think the odds are of a prospect like Senzel turning into the next Alex Bregman, a comparison I use because there are a decent amount of similarities.
- they play the same position and were both #2 overall draft picks out of major college programs in the same conference (LSU & Tenn).
- Senzel out-hit Bregman as a minor leaguer [904 OPS vs 866] and was the higher rated prospect along the way although Bregman was moved faster and already had a partial ML
season under his belt by the time he was Senzel's age now

Bregman has now, of course, turned into a monster by his third overall (second full) ML season [.286/.394/.509] and that's a tough standard to hope to replicate, but something
even remotely similar would be terrific.


Dealing Thor for a guy who's "top 10-15 hitter" now would net us one who is likely come with two or three years of team control just as he would for his new team.
That's maybe the safer/less-downside move but, depending on how well they can read the lay of the land, not always the better one.

[Frayed Knot]

Mex17 wrote: Ironically, Veeck was the same guy who did this. . . https://baseballhall.org/discover-more/stories/inside-pitch/grandstand-managers-night

Not only that, but Veeck DID used to show up in the Wrigley bleachers every once in a while and sit with the fans, talking baseball, quaffing beers, and grinding out cigarette stubs into his wooden leg along the way.

The line may or may not have come from Veeck, I can't really remember now. But its point holds that if you make moves with your mind too focused on the public relations aspect of it you often wind up with a
worse pr image than you would have had you concentrated more on making, at least in your mind, the 'right' move. And during the Wilpons' tenure, this trap has been sprung more than a few times.

[Mex17]

Another advantage to potentially having Senzel is that he is also a second baseman. So, if McNeil falters over a longer sample size, just put Senzel at second. He would still be pre-arb after 2019 so you can then still potentially go after Arenado next winter.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The trade that brought Syndergaard to the Mets was unpopular at the time that it was made.

I wanna visit the archives and challenge this.

I remember being thrilled, though mainly because I had bigger dreams for dArnaud than turned true, but also because we were able to unload both Thole and Nickeas for anything.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Here we go: http://archives.thecranepool.net/18800/f1_t18815.shtml

That's a hell of a thread.

Also there's this, while we waited for Dickey to OK an extension:
http://archives.thecranepool.net/18800/f1_t18863.shtml

Edited November 25, 2018 by Guest

[Mex17]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: The trade that brought Syndergaard to the Mets was unpopular at the time that it was made. I wanna visit the archives and challenge this. I remember being thrilled, though mainly because I had bigger dreams for dArnaud than turned true, but also because we were able to unload both Thole and Nickeas for anything.

We are not the wider Mets fanbase though. I knew people at the time who were crying over trading Dickey because he had just won a Cy Young and because he was a fan favorite. It happened.

I also know people who are saying now that they had better not trade Syndergaard for "just prospects".

Edited November 25, 2018 by Guest

[Benjamin Grimm]

I liked the deal too, but I recall that many fans (perhaps not here in this forum) saw it as "dumping" Dickey for an old catcher and a bunch of nobodies.

[Fman99]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Here we go: http://archives.thecranepool.net/18800/f1_t18815.shtml

I'm glad that I managed to make one comment in that thread and it was about AstroGlide.

[batmagadanleadoff]

The stupid Mets didn't go far enough. Boy was that ever the year to tear it down. They should've dumped Wright for prospects while he still had value instead of re-signing him to the then biggest Mets contract ever. What a bunch of saps.

[smg58]

I was mostly quiet on that thread (that was the end of my first semester as a professor and it was frantic). I remember having lunch with seawolf after a class at Stony Brook, and telling him that Dickey was my favorite met since Piazza but for that return I'd have moved him.

[smg58]

And who's glad we didn't get Mike Olt?

[Benjamin Grimm]

There are a few negative reactions in that thread but that seems to be the minority opinion among this group.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

somewhere in there there's a Mets won't contend for 3 years strain, of course they reached the WS then, with Syndy and dArnaud contributing

[batmagadanleadoff]

You show me someone who thought the Mets would be in the World Series three years later and I'll show you someone who's either totally full of shit or batshit crazy.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

couldnta done it with a 2-year Dickey deal, that's for sure

[Centerfield]

I wonder why I didn’t participate in those threads. I would have thought I would have.

I’m pretty sure I liked the trade then. I remember some reporters saying we had fleeced them with the inclusion of Syndergaard and Bucerra.

I hope we don’t trade Noah. There is no pitcher available this offseason that can replace him.

[Mex17]

Centerfield wrote: I remember some reporters saying we had fleeced them with the inclusion of Syndergaard and Bucerra.

I think it's safe to say at this point that Bucerra did not work out.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Fman99 wrote: Here we go: http://archives.thecranepool.net/18800/f1_t18815.shtml I'm glad that I managed to make one comment in that thread and it was about AstroGlide.

I made reference to Jack Buck as "Mr. Likes to F#ck." It was a happier, more carefree time all around.

Ceetar the trade contrarian? Who the hell woulda thunk?

The trade looked good from a process standpoint then, and it looks good from a results and process standpoint now, even if Darno never wears the blurange ever again. It feels like a Noah trade-- unless there's something crazy we haven't considered lurking in the off-season murk-- would work in the other direction.

Put another way: if we're trading this guy, it should be after a peak rather than a valley.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I didn't post in that Dickey thread and I still remember why not. But I remember what I thought at the time -- that I was all for the trade. But at the same time, I wasn't about to give eff and Jeff any of the credit if it worked out. I figured that Sandy's fingerprints were all over that deal and the only reason the owners approved and were willing to go along was not because of any process, but because they were too fucking cheap to pay Dickey what they thought he would've commanded on the open market, reigning Cy Young award and all.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Some Sports Illustrated writers spitball some trade ideas:

Let's Make a Trade for Noah Syndergaard!

All proposals involve either the Padres or the Dodgers.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Mike Puma wrote: A source indicated that to trade Syndergaard, the Mets would probably need to already have a deal in place to acquire another starting pitcher. Gio Gonzalez is among the free agents who has been discussed — the veteran lefty owns a career 1.85 ERA at Citi Field — but the Mets could also turn to J.A. Happ or shoot for a higher upside starter in Nathan Eovaldi.

Bryce Harper rumors lurking as Mets eye Noah Syndergaard move

I think this is the first time I've seen anything about Gio Gonzalez being considered by the Mets.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And here's what Jim Duquette is saying now:

Syndergaard, RHP, Mets (26) Best fit: Padres Trade package: OF Manuel Margot, C Austin Hedges, LHP MacKenzie Gore (San Diego's No. 2 prospect, No. 13 overall) Starting pitchers of Syndergaard's age, caliber and contract status (under control for three more years) are almost never available, but the Mets are having dialogue with multiple teams regarding the right-hander. Although New York is reportedly looking to use a Syndergaard trade to address other needs on the big league roster, a one-for-one deal that brings back a comparable position player may not be out there. As a result, the Mets could look to shop Syndergaard for a combination of MLB players and high-end prospects. The Padres are a perfect fit in many ways, as they have a strong farm system and a Major League roster that can spare a center fielder and a catcher, which are two of the Mets' biggest needs. San Diego has been eyeing Syndergaard since the summer, and the club continues to do so. Packaging Gore, the No. 3 overall Draft pick in 2017, with Margot and Hedges could be enough to bring Thor to San Diego.

[bmfc1]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Mike Puma wrote: the veteran lefty owns a career 1.85 ERA at Citi Field

Yeah but he's facing the Mets.

[smg58]

bmfc1 wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Mike Puma wrote: the veteran lefty owns a career 1.85 ERA at Citi Field Yeah but he's facing the Mets.

Well I guess you would have to sell Gio as a viable alternative to Thor somehow.

But if the best you could do from the Padres for Syndergaard is a 19-year-old prospect who hasn't reached high-A yet, a centerfielder who may or may not be an upgrade over Juan Lagares, and a glove-first catcher, then why bother signing somebody like Gonzalez at all? There'd be no point in pretending you're trying to win now if you make that deal, and Gonzalez won't help you win down the road.

[Centerfield]

Each time I open this thread I feel like throwing up.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Andy Martino wrote: The Mets and Padres have been talking for weeks about a Noah Syndergaard trade, and now we have our first specific tidbit: San Diego has told the Mets that top infield prospect Fernando Tatis Jr. is untouchable, according to major league sources. The teams have discussed catcher Austin Hedges. The Mets remain open to moving Syndergaard, but are still looking for the right offer. If that offer fails to materialize they will keep him. The team has remained in contact with top free agenst starters J.A. Happ and Patrick Corbin, among others, and could pursue one to replace Syndergaard.

Austin Hedges is a far cry from Fernando Tatis. Hopefully the discussion of Austin Hedges has nothing to do with a Syndergaard deal, unless the Padres are also willing to include a 22-year-old clone of Tony Gwynn.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Some NY writer raised an interesting thought the other day -- why would Syndergaard's former agent suddenly be in talks with several teams to trade him? What might BVW know about Syndergaard that nobody else knows?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah it's interesting.

Also, why not trade Matz if it's only going to net average guys? And also also, why not sign Eovaldi and NOT trade syndergaard?

[A Boy Named Seo]

Let it be known that I do not want to trade Noah Syndergaard, but Mets are apparently GOING FOR IT and Ken Rosenthal sez Thor is next outta town so WATP right here righ tnow.

San Diego sends the Mets Manuel Margot, Francisco Mejia and McKenzie Gore for Noah Syndergaard and Kevin Plawecki. Pads get their young affordable ace and a catcher who can play every day if Hedges can't hit.

The Mets then offer Margot to Cleveland along with Travis d'Arnaud, current #1 prospect Andres Gimenez and BIG DAWG TODD FRAZIER for Corey Kluber and Yan Gomes! The Indians will want more, so I'll add current #5 prospect Franklyn Kilome (the dude we got for Asdrubal) and they'll think about it for a long, hard minute before accepting the offer.

Kluber is awesome but making $17M this year, so Cleveland gets younger, saves ~$11M in this trade and fills immediate needs at catcher and the outfield, plus they have a one-year stop-gap at third in case Yandy Diaz isn't any ready or isn't very good. Superstar Jose Ramirez doesn't have the body for 2nd base, so he can slide to third next year and Gimenez can play second if he's ready. Kilome was at AA last year so might get a call-up as soon as this season. Indians are re-loading!

The Mets rotation led by deGrom, Kluber and Wheeler is still excellent, with Gomes a solid replacement at catcher, and McNeil slotting in at third. Despite losing 2 more prospects, the quality at the top of the farm might be better with Gore and Mejia the new #1 and #2 prospects with Alonso knocking on the door.

I HAVE TO GO ADD FAKE GM TO MY LINKDIN PROFILE NOW GUYS. I WILL MISS U, NOAH SYNDERGAARD