Dumping Harvey

[Centerfield]

Kristie Ackert says the Mets are talking to teams to move Harvey for middle relief. Maybe Jason Middlebrooks is available.

As if they couldn’t get any dumber. Not sure how much more of this I can take.

This weekend needs to end.

[nymr83]

Buy High, Sell Low?

Ok, you're right, they haven't actually shown a willingness to "buy" at all.

Even if the Mets have decided they'd never give Harvey a long-term deal, I don't see how the return on him now is a better asset than the return you'd get in July if he rebounds, even if you "divide the value" of the 'July asset' by the chance of rebounding.

happy to be proven wrong. if the Mets get a top 60 reliever (a guy who would be top 2 on an average bullpen) on a decent contract i'd accept that as a reasonable return.

[smg58]

Well I'm all for bringing in a safer bet for the rotation, which would mean moving either Harvey or Wheeler (or perhaps both, if you feel more confident with Lugo or Gsellman). We're at a point in the offseason where you talk to everybody about everything.

[Centerfield]

There is absolutely no reason to give up on Harvey for a middle reliever considering how many are available for nothing.

If this happens I will absolutely lose my shit.

This would mean we can’t sign middle relievers without dumping salary. This is really bad.

[Edgy MD]

I thought it would be about moving a pitcher who stunk up the league last season, who perhaps still has value but not so much for the Mets.

He had the worst ERA of any pitcher in Mets history who made as many starts as he did. Going back to 1962. He's certainly not untouchable.

OE: And he's been a chronic jerk.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Centerfield wrote: This would mean we can’t sign middle relievers without dumping salary. This is really bad.

If the Mets are looking to dump Harvey (which I think is probably more fiction
than fact) it's to dump Harvey and the baggage and not his salary. I can't imagine
Sandy's phone is ringing off the hook inquiring where they stand on him.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't know... if they trade him for a young reliever with a few years of control remaining, it might not be such a bad thing. And it will give them another $7 million or so to work with. It is frustrating that they have a limited budget, but it's a fact. The Wilpons are the curse that's been inflicted on this generation of Mets fans. I wish they'd either spend like a New York team should spend or else step aside, but given the constraints that they apparently (and inexplicably) have, a deal like this might be a good move.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I thought he made $3 mil something not $7 something... Rotoworld says $5.125.

[Edgy MD]

It's not like the Yankees don't move on from an exciting young pitcher when his career doesn't gain traction. #IvanNova

It's not the money but the amount of patience you are or aren't willing to give a guy who is losing games for you and acting like a tool.

I hope they keep him, but understand if they don't.

[Benjamin Grimm]

d'Kong76 wrote: I thought he made $3 mil something not $7 something... Rotoworld says $5.125.

I think his estimated salary for 2018 is around $7 million, but since it hasn't been decided yet, it's just speculation. He's eligible for arbitration.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I don't care what the Yankees did/do really. My feeling on Harvey is that I want him
to come to camp in stellar shape ready to be in the middle of the rotation and regain
some shine to his star. If the Mets are good, great. If they suck, trade his ass in July.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Guest

[seawolf17]

d'Kong76 wrote: Centerfield wrote: This would mean we can’t sign middle relievers without dumping salary. This is really bad. If the Mets are looking to dump Harvey (which I think is probably more fiction than fact) it's to dump Harvey and the baggage and not his salary. I can't imagine Sandy's phone is ringing off the hook inquiring where they stand on him.

I can't imagine his value being lower than it is right now. At the same time, if some other team has a youngish talented young pitcher they're equally frustrated with who they're willing to trade, you'd have to consider it. But I can't see them just giving him away.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: He's eligible for arbitration.

Yes, you're right. I read 2017 like it was now.

[Ceetar]

seawolf17 wrote: I can't imagine his value being lower than it is right now. At the same time, if some other team has a youngish talented young pitcher they're equally frustrated with who they're willing to trade, you'd have to consider it. But I can't see them just giving him away.

Right, I'd swap him for a similarly talented pitcher.

but on the other hand, we just swapped his pitching coach and trainer. That might be just as good.

I doubt the Mets are primarily concerned with dumping him to get rid of him if they just tendered him. It doesn't really seem worth keeping him around if you're best case is a reliever in a trade.

well, I guess that's not true. You could use the depth of Harvey on the roster as a 'threat' when you tell Darvish/other GM that you don't need another starter.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Their mistake was not trading him after he loaded up on coke between the 8th and 9th innings of Game 5.

He's been a terrible teammate.

[Edgy MD]

seawolf17 wrote: I can't imagine his value being lower than it is right now.

I can.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I can too. Right now, there's at least the hope that he's had more time to recover and will pitch well in 2018.

If, however, we get to May 15 and he has an ERA of 8.50, his trade value will be worse than it is now.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Harvey is the kind of asshole I wish the Mets would be getting creative with, not dumping him when his trade value is at its lowest. Turn Harvey into that bad ass reliever we need. Maybe a season removed from thoracic outlet, the velocity and control are much better. If it doesn't work or he's still shitty, then his value is still next-to-nothing and we can trade him for the boring, low-value, known-commodity we're no doubt chasing right now. Don't be boring, Mets!

[Guest 41Forever]

I wouldn’t dump him. You figure that with the new manager and pitching coach, and with him being extra motivated by being closer to free agency, the conditions are favorable for him to get it back together. Or, if he can't get it back together under these conditions, he’s never going to get it back together.

The thing that we might not know is whether he is just unbearable to have around and it would be addition by subtraction by not having him around.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Guest

[Ceetar]

41Forever wrote: The thing that we might not know is whether he is just unbearable to have around and it would be addition by subtraction by not having him around.

Highly doubt it. I'm kinda concerned there seems to be a clubhouse chemistry vibe around this discussion.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Ceetar wrote: 41Forever wrote: The thing that we might not know is whether he is just unbearable to have around and it would be addition by subtraction by not having him around. Highly doubt it. I'm kinda concerned there seems to be a clubhouse chemistry vibe around this discussion.

Assholes are never fun to be around, regardless of the room or the profession. If a shitty baseball player is also an asshole (allegedly!) and his own peers don't like working with him, then yeah, I'd understand if there was a larger push to move him.

[Ceetar]

and why do we think he's an asshole, particularly to his teammates? He seems pretty typically a 'sports bro' type guy to me. And while that might be abrasive in an office, I doubt it's grating on a team of 25+ baseball players.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: and why do we think he's an asshole, particularly to his teammates?

Because he's publicly and repeatedly demonstrated asshole behavior.

That's not the last word, but it's certainly indicative.

[Ceetar]

you mean the showing up late stuff? I doubt Wilmer Flores is grumbling about that.

I doubt Jacob deGrom looks over to the next rubber and thinks "that bum, out to all hours enjoying the city!"

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: you mean the showing up late stuff?

I mean the publicly and repeatedly demonstrating asshole behavior.

[Ceetar]

links/specifics please. it's a very broad and vague term.

[Edgy MD]

I shouldn't need to document Matt Harvey's douchecraft.

[Edgy MD]

Feel free to google "Matt harvey" + "douche."

You can use variants.

"Matt harvey" + "huge douche"
"Matt harvey" + "enormous douche"
"Matt harvey" + "asshole"
"Matt harvey" + "headache"
"Matt harvey" + "scalawag"
"Matt harvey" + "rapscallion"
"Matt harvey" + "cocaine"
"Matt harvey" + "biggest dick"

Judge for yourself or not. But please don't act coy and pretend the evidence isn't out there. It is.

[Ceetar]

yes, and none of these things suggest his teammates care about it.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: yes, and none of these things suggest his teammates care about it.

I didn't suggest that it was.

I suggested that he has publicly and repeatedly demonstrated asshole behavior. You ask for evidence all coy-like and pretend it isn't raining from the sky.

Come on. Don't jerk people around. Please.