duan

"I hate the way this player performs". Fine, but booing is probably the least likely thing to help that. If you actually WANT your team to win, don't you think you shouldn't damage it's players ability to perform? Managers, coaches and front office staff can all see if a guy isn't contributing as much as they'd hoped/think he should but it doesn't do anyone any good to make it that much harder for him to play.

if you hate them that much why do you bother going/watching/listening/posting.

christ we have this conversation too often. WHAT, do you precisely hope to gain by booing your own player. The only time i can see it's anyway justifiable is if it's clear that player is not putting in a reasonable amount of effort on the field of play or has very questionable professional conduct. I don't think I ever seen ANYONE question Beltran's professionalism and work ethic therefore I just can't accept that this is anything but idiocy. It is MUCH more likely to hinder a players performance if he's regularly roundly derided by people who should be his supporters. Naturally he'll start playing with fear - anyone who thinks that kind of reaction isn't mentally stressful is a complete moron. Similarly, it isn't exactly going to help the mets get trade value for him if other teams can see he's being run out of town so it's not actually going to help the team in that regard either is it?

edwin jackson and someone else.

what I said in the predictions thread. 92-70

also that's just Joe Sheehan's opinion not Baseball Prospectus' as a whole. If you look at both their Pecota predicitions, and Clay Davenport's stuff they have the Mets first with the Phillies very close. Everyone knows it's going to be a tough race. For me the big outlier is going to be how good/bad the expos (still expos to me!) & marlins will be - and who puts them away consistently. Someone could very easily win 100 games in this division.

1) Give the Met who will have the most of each category, names but no numbers Batting categories Games Wright Hits Reyes Doubles Beltran Triples Reyes Home runs Delgado RBI Delgado Stolen Bases Reyes Caught stealing Reyes Runs scored Beltran Batting average (high) Reyes On base percentage (high) Delgado Strikeouts (high) Delgado Walks Wright Pitching categories Wins Martinez Losses Traschel Strikeouts Martinez Walks Zambrano ERA (low) Wagner ERA (high) Julio ERA (low by a starter) Martinez ERA (high by a starter) Traschel Saves Wagner BAA (low) Martinez BAA (high) Traschel Games started Glavine Games pitched Duaner Sanchez 2) Give the number for the player and category specified Cliff Floyd - games 132 Cliff Floyd - batting average .275 David Wright - runs scored 100 David Wright - RBI 110 Carlos Beltran - home runs 23 Carlos Beltran - stolen bases 25 Jose Reyes - errors 24 Jose Reyes - on base percentage .335 Carlos Delgado - batting average .285 Carlos Delgado - RBI 125 Kaz Matsui - games 75 Kaz Matsui - runs scored 38 Anderson Hernandez - games 60 Anderson Hernandez - batting average .270 Anderson Hernandez - fielding percentage .975 Paul Lo Duca - on base percentage .335 Xavier Nady - RBI 55 Victor Diaz - games 70 Pedro Martinez - strikeouts 202 Tom Glavine - wins 15 Steve Trachsel - losses 12 Steve Trachsel - walks 73 Victor Zambrano - ERA 4.15 Victor Zambrano - strikeouts 130 Brian Bannister - games started 12 Aaron Heilman - games started 12 Billy Wagner - saves 45 Billy Wagner - ERA 2.25 Jorge Julio - ERA 4.75 3)Team Categories Total runs scored 780 Total runs against 710 Team ERA 3.8 Team batting average .270 Record 92-70 NL East Finish (1st, 2nd, etc.) 2nd Games behind NL East Winner 4 Playoffs (Division winner, Wildcard winner, no playoffs) wildcard Playoff finish - (Win WS, Lose WS, Lose NLCS, Lose NLDS, no playoffs) Lose NLCS 4)Tie-breakers 1st tie breaker - Total number of rainouts 3 2nd tie breaker - Time of longest game of the year 3 hours 40 mins

Edgy DC wrote: Reasonably accurate, sure. There's just large swaths of the story they're unwilling to tell --- a problem with most adaptations, as interesting books contain more material than the typical length feature film. That's certainly true, but a skilled adaptation will usually stay away from trying to replicate the book. A good example of this is Cider House Rules where the book was mammoth, but the onscreen adaptation made the story more concise, staying true to the heart of it, but being a much better movie by understanding what movies do well rather then trying to be a novel on screen.

not really a 25 man roster note any more but according to Rotoworld Tike Redman's been granted his release.

I think an impartial judge would find in my favour

that wasn't what Brett originally looked at. He posted "potential win-loss records - best/worst" for the mets current starting 5 clearly alluding to the idea that those records would be dictated by the performance of the starter. They are INFLUENCED by but not dictated by the performance of the starter. My point was that Pedro could pitch the EXACT same and go 20-5 or 13-9 and so on down the starting five. So the kind of 'upside'/'downside' question is pretty meaningless. Of course if a player has a 20-1 record he'll virtually certainly have ptiched extremely well and in all likelihood if a pitcher has a 2-12 record he's not pitched very well. But it's only those kind of indicators that you get. To follow; Yes, if a starter gives up 1 run in 9 innings every start he'll win most games but you're told that by his era of 1.00 aren't you? Yes, if a starter gives up 10 runs in six innings he'll lose most games, but then you're told that by his era of 15.00 aren't you? However, if a starter has an era of 4.00 you've NO idea how many games he'll win or lose. Brad Penny had an era of 3.9 in 190 innings for the dodgers last year his record ? 7-9 Livian Hernandez had an era of 3.98 for the nationals in 240 innings. His record 15-10. I just object to the discussion of w/l's as if they're how a pitchers performance should be judged.

Bret Sabermetric wrote: Sure. But they don't tell you nothing, either. Look, you choose the five worst pct pitchers with over 20 decisions last year for your staff and let me choose the five best for mine, and I will KICK YOUR ASS consistently. Now, maybe one of your 6-17 pitchers had awful luck and maybe he even outpitched one of my luckier 17-6 guys. But my other four will be so much better than your other four that I'll more than make up for the anomaly. But what you were asking was "upside - downside" as if the quality of the pitchers performance over the course of the season was the fundamental dictator of that record. It isn't. You choose the five pitchers with the highest win % 1 Chris Carpenter StL 2 Cliff Lee Cle 3 John Lackey LAA 4 Bartolo Colon LAA 5 Carlos Zambrano CHC and I've NO problem choosing 5 pitchers who performed better then ALL of them.

Bret Sabermetric wrote: What's his won loss record got to do with how he pitched? Bugger all. It's shorthand. What I'm saying is that if Bannister pitches all season and he as ineffective as I'm thinking he could be AND if he has back luck (like Millwood) my worst case scenario is 8-16. Obviously it's conceivable (see Anthony Young) he could be an outlier but I'm looking for probable scenarios. I do like the sound of "bugger all," though. I think I'll be saying that all morning. But you're still getting it wrong Kevin Millwood: Last year went 9-11 for the Cleveland Indians. Cliff Lee: Last year went 18-5 for the Cleveland Indians. KM era: 2.86 CL era: 3.79 W/L records tell you very little.

d'yknow what ... both the upside and downside could be achieved by the pitcher no matter how he well or poorly he pitched. Kevin Millwood finished with a 9-11 record last season despite playing for a team with a decent offense (no record breakers or anything but 4th in the league in runs scored) with a 2.86 ERA. What's his won loss record got to do with how he pitched? Bugger all.

Sorry I wasn't very clear earlier on. The European Championships are held every FOUR years and are for NATIONAL TEAMS - it is like the World Cup except just for Europe (and with 16 teams rather then 32) The European Cup (more commonly known now as the Champions League) is for club teams and it is held every season. It is rather complicated who qualifies for it. EVERY champion of a national league does, but as leagues get stronger they get additional places. ie: in Ireland First gets in, in Scotland First and Second, in England First, Second, Third & Fourth. - ( who get's what is decided by what's called the 'CoEfficient' which is a mathmatical representation of how well a country's teams have done in these competitions over a 5 year period.) There's also a seeding process at certain points. The reason i was suggesting a 'midseason' classic is that the big issue with playing this at the start of the year is pitchers not having had to time to 'get their arms ready'. That wouldn't be the case with a midseason classic. The issue with November is that it's SO far after the regular season that it's hard to think it makes sense for people who finish playing on Sep 30 to start again on Nov 1st. Baseball's prolonged climax means that but for the 8 teams involved there'd be a crazy gap. [side note] Israel & Israeli teams have been participating in UEFA - european football's governing body - competitions for decades.

The World Cup happens every four years. The european championships happen every four years (the alternate even years to the WC) These both happen in the summer after the club season is over and take about a month. They're "Bigger then club football" (although there's ongoing complications with that as obviously clubs pay the players day to day salaries - though they do get bonuses for being part of national squads, generally worked out on a collective basis). The club season runs from August to May, culminating at a European level with the Champions League final and domestically with either the "last day of the season" in leagues or the "FA" Cup Final. Don't forget the size of the average top league is 20 teams (some are 18) which means 38 games and then the very top clubs (champions of the previous season plus up to 3 more depending on strength of the league) participate in the European Cup.

I think the wbc should be played in a two week window at the now "all-star" break. The all star game's a joke and is basically an irritant in the season. The WBC has the potential to be *really* good. You need the weaker teams in because that's how they get better - if you make it a closed club you simply take the fun out of it. it'd be brilliant mid season - you only have to do it every two/four years too. That makes it a real treat.

="Centerfield"]1-0 Dodgers in the 6th but the Mets have 2 on with no one out. Ciafa Lewis is the worst sideline reporter ever. He also looks about 12 here on edit RMPL I went googling him before I finished the thread (at least partly because I thought he was a she and that maybe this was the tv person that Derek Lowe was carrying on with (it being game again' the dodgers.).

who in the name of jeebus is Sandy Martinez and when did he join the metskies?

also, what ever about Zito (whom I'm not convinced over by a long stretch) the idea that Jose Contreras is some kind of $12 million a year player is something that I'd be VERY quesy about. I mean he's HAD ONE good season. ONE. Actually next years pitching's as thin as this years. from http://www.mlb4u.com/0607FA.html RHSP: Paul Wilson (Team Option) Wade Miller Jeff Weaver Tomo Ohka Hideo Nomo Andy Ashby Pedro Astacio Ramon Ortiz Jason Johnson (Mutual Option) Gil Meche Joe Mays Byung-Hyun Kim (Team Option) Sidney Ponson Tony Armas Jr. Jose Contreras Kevin Jarvis Greg Maddux Brian Moehler Jason Schmidt Jeff Suppan Rick Helling Woody Williams Brad Radke (May Retire) Kerry Wood (Mutual Option) Mike Mussina (Team Option) Cory Lidle Kelvim Escobar Chan Ho Park Jose Contreras Ryan Franklin Orlando Hernandez Jaret Wright (Team + Player Void options) Kip Wells Jason Marquis Vicente Padilla Adam Eaton Tim Wakefield (Annual Team Renew Option) LHSP: Ted Lilly Brian Anderson Mark Redman Shawn Estes Tom Glavine Kevin Appier Jamie Moyer Andy Pettitte Mark Mulder Barry Zito Doug Davis Randy Wolf Mark Buerhle (Team Option) David Wells (Likely to retire) Wilson Alvarez (Retired) Darrell May Eric Milton (Void Option)

"all the contracts are seemingly for good players who you'd probably want to return." It's hard to know about 2007 now. If Pedro's shoulder/elbow/toe falls off he's not going to be cheap, similarly if Carlos Delgado follows a Frank Thomas/Sammy Sosa career path then that's $30 million... They're big risks y'know, not risks I wouldn't take, but risks.

It's hard to know who to compare him to. I think his best career comp is probably Barry Larkin, but he's been *that bit better* then Larkin all the way up. Larkin's a hall of famer to me so if Jeter continues he'll be too. He's not a hall of famer yet. A lot of things can go wrong from the ages of 31 to 35 (see Gonzalez, Juan for a great example!!!)

gourriel's proving to be a bit of a monster with the stick clubbing a 2 run homer (his 3rd hit of the night) to put Cuba 6-4 up.

Bret; sorry I'd like to apologise for my inability to read your posts correctly earlier. I think there's give and take here - but I also think how the mets have acted is defendable. Sorry again for not reading your post correctly.

if that's the case how come the mets haven't had an arbitration hearing in YEARS. There's always a point where you say 'No'. He makes a case, they say, "by our reckoning you've been really really good and what we did in the past with guys like you is pay them 30% (or whatever the figure is) more then we have to. If we put you at 450k this year then if Victor Diaz has a good year we'll be locked into doing it for him too - Don't forget Jose's only getting 400k and he's been in the ML for a year more then you.