seawolf17

="Benjamin Grimm":11ubw6yw]I too have been thinking about Burrell as a Met. (I've always seen him as a future Met; they tend to get guys who've hurt them, even if it's not until they've passed their prime.) If they do sign him, I suppose their five-man outfield is Beltran, Church, Burrell, Tatis, and Murphy. (Evans and Reed to Buffalo.) I'd be a little concerned with Murphy not getting enough playing time, but I imagine he'd find his spots.[/quote:11ubw6yw] I'd still rather have Dunn than Burrell, but I'd take Burrell in a second. I'm concerned about Murphy getting overexposed; give him 250 ABs in a part-time role and let him earn his stripes again. MFS62 Dec 12 2008 07:59 AM Speaking of Ibanez, the Phillies just signed him to a three year, $30 million contract. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=376426 8 Too bad. I think he would have been a great pickup for the Mets. Later Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:07 AM Head, slammed through wall. Rockin' Doc Dec 12 2008 08:28 AM If the Mets could pick up Pat Burrell for reasonable termsd, I would be okay with that. The Mets need a corner outfielder and some right handed power to help balance the line up. Burrell would accomplish both. Murphy could still get reps as the fourth outfielder, possible spot starter at second base and the top lefty bat off the bench. Tatis would be the top righty bat off the bench while serving as a back up in LF and the corner infield spots. The only problem I see with that plan is with Endy gone, there is no one to serve as a late inning defensive substitute in LF unless Jeremy fills that role. That, however would be too many outfielders and someone (likely Murphy or Reed) would have to go elsewhere (Buffalo). Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:32 AM Marlon, I think, is not long for this town. Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2008 08:33 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2d4wl6of]If the Mets could pick up Pat Burrell for reasonable termsd, I would be okay with that. The Mets need a corner outfielder and some right handed power to help balance the line up. Burrell would accomplish both. Murphy could still get reps as the fourth outfielder, possible spot starter at second base and the top lefty bat off the bench. Tatis would be the top righty bat off the bench while serving as a back up in LF and the corner infield spots. The only problem I see with that plan is with Endy gone, there is no one to serve as a late inning defensive substitute in LF unless Jeremy fills that role. That, however would be too many outfielders and someone (likely Murphy or Reed) would have to go elsewhere (Buffalo).[/quote:2d4wl6of] Yes. Right now the fifth outfielder spot appears to be a competition between Evans and Reed. If a Burrell or Dunn were signed, the competition would be over and both of those outfielders would end up in Buffalo. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:37 AM Evans is going to Buffalo. Marlon is going to Arizona. The Mets have a big fat slot waiting for a big fat outfielder to fill it. MFS62 Dec 12 2008 08:44 AM ="Edgy DC":3pbxjx7s]Evans is going to Buffalo. Marlon is going to Arizona. The Mets have a big fat slot waiting for a big fat outfielder to fill it.[/quote:3pbxjx7s] Well, Dmitri Young wasn't tendered and is a free agent. He certainly fills the "big fat" parts of that slot. Later Gwreck Dec 12 2008 09:40 AM ="Edgy DC":1wn8w6gz]Head, slammed through wall.[/quote:1wn8w6gz] Rollins Ibanez Utley Howard Werth Victorino Dobbs/Feliz Ruiz Ouch. Only consolation is that it's a left-heavy lineup. Centerfield Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM Ibanez basically replaces Burrell's production. Meaning the Phils will return a very similar lineup to last year's. Mark Texiera still available. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM I'm slamming my head through a wall because of the proliferation of posting without reading. smg58 Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM Evans belongs at Buffalo playing first base. With Carp gone and Delgado in his walk year, he should be getting full-time AB's at his best position. The Mets need more lefthanded pitching. Burrell might not be better than Ibanez when you factor in ballparks. But both might hurt (might have hurt, in Ibanez' case) the Mets defensively more than they'd help offensively. The Mets absolutely need another righthanded bat in the outfield, but not at a cost that's disproportionate to the benefit. sharpie Dec 12 2008 10:24 AM Ibanez is a pretty good fielder, certainly not a guy you have to take out in the late innings. TransMonk Dec 12 2008 03:13 PM Looks like the Yanks will overpay for Burnett[/url:3vyw4v5q] rather than overpay for Lowe. Holy wallets. Valadius Dec 12 2008 03:47 PM Good. Burnett breaks down virtually every year. metirish Dec 12 2008 04:33 PM Of all the crazy things , I guess they won the bidding war again. Frayed Knot Dec 13 2008 06:50 AM So the Yanx had themselves a 1/4 Billion dollar week. Or, as they say in the Bronx, a good starting point. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 13 2008 06:58 AM Here's hoping Burnett is even a bigger bust than Pavano. He's apparently a bigger idiot, and already a bigger injury risk. smg58 Dec 13 2008 08:27 AM The non-tenders are headed rather shockingly by ex-Met Ty Wigginton, after a very strong year with the bat. He's not that good defensively in the infield, but I have to think it had more to do with money. I also can't imagine that none of the teams in the market for a third baseman (the Twins, the Indians, the Giants) wouldn't have given him a look. I've always thought Ty could be the 10th man on a good team, and the Mets have room for him (as primarily an outfielder), but somebody might still pay him a starter's salary. Other noteworthy non-tenders include Chris Capuano (still recovering from TJS but might be worth a long-term look) and Takaishi Saito (his worth depends entirely on the status of his elbow). The only Met I saw was Argenis Reyes. If that's it, that would mean that Stokes (a good move) and Robinson Cancel (a bit surprising, unless they know they can move one of the other catchers) are staying on the 40. Nymr83 Dec 13 2008 12:59 PM i would LOVE to bring Wiggy back as a bench player, he has the pop that this bench needs and can play 2B/3B when needed (though not necessarily well) Valadius Dec 13 2008 01:20 PM I'd plug Wiggy into Easley's spot in a heartbeat. OlerudOwned Dec 13 2008 02:47 PM I'm a lot happier with Ibanez in Philly than as a Met, especially at 3 years. Keith Law calls it "absurd[/url:20pumd9t]." Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:30 PM What about Burrell for an everyday LF and Jon Garland as an SP? Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 07:37 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 14 2008 07:48 PM ="Valadius":2u4mpb0q]I'd plug Wiggy into Easley's spot in a heartbeat.[/quote:2u4mpb0q] We'll be competing to buy him as a super-sub against teams looking for a starting thirdbaseman. You'd probably have to be thinking of him as your starting secondbaseman when you sign him. Aaron Miles, meanwhile got non-tendered. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 14 2008 07:47 PM Besides Easley's role also included backing up Reyes at SS and Wiggy is an unrealistic option there. Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 07:56 PM Miles plays everywhere, shortstop (and mopup pitcher) included. He's pretty similar from both sides of the plate. He can take lefties away from Castillo (against whom Luis is historically weaker), pressing him for the full-time job, backup at shortstop, and fill in elsewhere as needed. He's pretty analogous to Super Joe, with a little more average and a little less power, but has more starting experience and is less likely to be over-exposed by over-use. Ashie62 Dec 15 2008 04:19 AM Miles would come cheap and would be a rich mans superjoe I'd prefer Wiggy cause he can play anything..maybe even left or RF when Murphy or Church have problems Don't we need to focus on a full-time outfielder? Relying on Church & Murphy for 150 games seems a stretch. I'd love Burrell..surly as he is and as far as a SP goes..wait til Most of The A pitchers go and go after Sheets or Garland. metirish Dec 15 2008 06:55 AM Alex Cora was again mentioned in a report today. smg58 Dec 15 2008 07:24 AM Miles is another player who would be an upgrade over Castillo. He has similar hitting numbers to Castillo from a few years ago. He's also at least average with the glove, which Castillo can no longer say. He'd be worth bringing in for something like two years and $5M, although I might go higher than that if there are no other viable 2B options. He's not Orlando Hudson, but he could present significant value. I'd be willing to go 2 years and $6M for Wigginton's services, even if I could only guarantee him starts against lefties (in the outfield). Somebody like him or Juan Rivera would boost our bench, enable us to platoon Ryan Church, and provide cover if something goes wrong with Murphy, Church, or Delgado. I'm not sure that would be enough, but nobody jumped at the chance to trade for him. Edgy DC Dec 15 2008 07:35 AM Unless and until Castillo and/or Delgado are dealt, we've got to be thinking shortstopability in our next infielder. MFS62 Dec 15 2008 07:45 AM ="Edgy DC":1omuczeq]Unless and until Castillo and/or Delgado are dealt, we've got to be thinking shortstopability in our next infielder.[/quote:1omuczeq] I agree. B'sides, if the Mets sign Cora, we might be subjected to pictures of him with his brother. I'd get flashbacks of images of Joe Torre and his sister. Hide the eyes of the chill'uns. Miles gets my vote. Later MFS62 Dec 15 2008 08:54 AM Righthander Chan Ho Park said in a press conference in Seoul today that he has agreed to a 1-year contract with the Phillies. According to the Korea Times, Park, 35, will have a base salary of $2.5 million with incentives that could push the total package to $5 million. There had been reports that the Phillies were close to coming to terms with Park to improve their bullpen. However, the pitcher said he opted for the Phillies in part because they viewed him as a starter. �I was a little worried about the Citizens Bank Park, the home of the Phillies, which is hitter-friendly,� he said. "But as they considered me a starter, I signed with Philadelphia.� http://www.philly.com/philly/b...l_for_Park.html Later Frayed Knot Dec 15 2008 05:29 PM The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either. Centerfield Dec 15 2008 07:32 PM It was me. I had some extra money lying around and I figured, "Oh what the hell." themetfairy Dec 15 2008 07:37 PM ="Centerfield":38yhgguz]It was me. I had some extra money lying around and I figured, "Oh what the hell."[/quote:38yhgguz] I love you, Man. Your posts always make me laugh. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 15 2008 08:19 PM ="Frayed Knot":uz2je510]The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either.[/quote:uz2je510] Go, Theo, go. Frayed Knot Dec 16 2008 06:36 AM Phils re-up 95 y/o Jamie Moyer for 2 years. OK, he's really only 46. Fman99 Dec 16 2008 06:40 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2wijd3xl]="Frayed Knot":2wijd3xl]The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either.[/quote:2wijd3xl] Go, Theo, go.[/quote:2wijd3xl] I would not be surprised if Houston was the team not being mentioned. He pitched well down there for them and they don't have a whole lot of starting pitching depth after Oswalt. Edgy DC Dec 16 2008 06:46 AM I'm OK with Pedro. I said it. Just, you know, sign a bunch of other guys also. Farmer Ted Dec 16 2008 08:51 AM I have no problem with Petey in the #5 slot to start the season. I'm more worried with the durability of Maine and whether the other teams catch up with Pelfry's stuff. metsguyinmichigan Dec 16 2008 09:28 AM Any day the Phils resign Jamie Moyer and add Chan Ho Park is a good day for us! Edgy DC Dec 16 2008 09:31 AM The Phils trying to get two more years out of an ancient lefty strikes me as one more good reason for us to Burrell up. DocTee Dec 19 2008 09:14 AM Knucksie in Dixie: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/18/SPMQ14QQMI.DTL John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2008 09:31 AM Never made any sense to me that Lance Neikro wasn't a knuckleballer to begin with. IIRC, he had a big hit vs. the Mets (was it a game-winning HR or something?) when he first came up with the Giants and I naturally assumed he was on his way to major stardom. Fman99 Dec 21 2008 10:55 AM Fireballer Daniel Cabrera goes to the Nats, 1 year, 2.6 million. Valadius Dec 21 2008 10:55 AM Ha, good luck with that. Guy's a head case. Fman99 Dec 21 2008 10:57 AM ="Valadius":2pz740g9]Ha, good luck with that. Guy's a head case.[/quote:2pz740g9] I think people were saying that about Ollie Perez before the Pirates sent him to us. Talented, strikeout pitcher, control issues, high ERA, etc. metsguyinmichigan Dec 21 2008 10:29 PM OK, now both the Angels and the Red Sox say they're not going after Texiera anymore. Has Boras finall pushed people over the edge, or is this all just negotiating ploys? Frayed Knot Dec 22 2008 07:05 AM The Angels are claiming that their offer is "off the table" and that there'll be no further negotiating - which at least doesn't sound like a ploy. Boston, for its part, isn't claiming that, only that they think they're not going to be his choice due to other teams raising their offers beyond where they're willing to go. That leaves Teixeira in the position of either taking Boston's "low" offer or going the Baltimore/Washington route which kind of flies in the face of his 'I wanna be a contendah' pledge. Supposedly this was going to be wrapped up by Xmas but it wouldn't be the first time Boras has over-played his hand. Benjamin Grimm Dec 22 2008 07:07 AM There's still Baltimore and Washington. Boras isn't quite out of options yet. metsguyinmichigan Dec 22 2008 07:19 AM Speaking of Boras... Murray Chass MurrayChass.com Now that CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett have signed, other pitchers on the free-agent list are expected to follow. Derek Lowe is probably next on the list in terms of interest, but the interest has been all talk and no offers. His agent's asking price is said to be the reason. Scott Boras has told clubs he wants Barry Zito money for the 35-year-old Lowe, which means $18 million a year. Clubs interested in Lowe have not rushed forward with such offers. The slow-moving market may be just what the Mets want. ...Barry Zito isn't worth Barry Zito money. But Derek Lowe? Is he nuts? Edgy DC Dec 22 2008 01:44 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 22 2008 02:20 PM I'm not sure I'd support the Mets spending $18 million a year for two Derek Lowes. Valadius Dec 22 2008 02:04 PM The MOST I'd spend on Derek Lowe is $8 million a year. $18 million is beyond rationality. Willets Point Dec 22 2008 03:01 PM Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone. MFS62 Dec 23 2008 07:36 AM ="Willets Point":2bf2t6s1]Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone.[/quote:2bf2t6s1] Are you saying this because he associates with Scott Boras? Or is there something else you know about him? Later smg58 Dec 23 2008 11:23 AM Guys who can consistently give you 200+ IP with 15 wins and a sub-4 ERA are worth plenty more than 8 million. I wouldn't go four years with Lowe, on account of his age, but I'd much rather have him than Ollie. Willets Point Dec 23 2008 03:04 PM ="MFS62":3rvs0psj]="Willets Point":3rvs0psj]Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone.[/quote:3rvs0psj] Are you saying this because he associates with Scott Boras? Or is there something else you know about him? Later[/quote:3rvs0psj] Just a joke about Lowe's rumored love of the drink. Valadius Dec 26 2008 09:01 PM Randy Johnson will pursue his 300th win as a San Francisco Giant. Nymr83 Dec 27 2008 01:15 AM he could it be cutting it close with the type of run support the giants give their starters. he needs 5 wins, it took Matt Cain all year to get 8 wins for the Giants with an ERA+ the same as Johnson's last year. Frayed Knot Dec 27 2008 05:08 AM 'Randy Johnson is a Giant' is somewhat of a redundant headline. He's probably been called that since he was in the 4th grade. On the other hand, there must have been plenty in in the Castro district of SF who were excited to hear that someone called 'The Big Unit' was coming to their city. DocTee Dec 27 2008 09:16 AM FK with a late entry for post o' the year. The Giants have had a nice offseason (Renteria, Affeldt, Howry, Johnson) and if local rumors of them adding Adam Dunn are correct, they could be players in a weak West. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 27 2008 09:19 AM I agree. You can definitely quibble with the wisdom of a team's particular moves but I like to see franchises who've had bad years making a bunch of moves in the offseason, whether they are effective or not. Like the Giants... and the MFYs... Frayed Knot Dec 27 2008 03:49 PM X-Rockie, X-Astro OFer Wily Tavarez signs a two-year deal with Cincy. He's good at stealing bases and also .... ummmm, I'll think of something. And Kevin Mensch heads for Japan. The Japanese just might get a look at his monsterously huge head and add a second rising sun to their flag. I think that thing has its own gravitational pull. Frayed Knot Dec 29 2008 07:20 AM Penny for your Sox ... Brad Penny to Boston for 1 yr/$5mil -- pending a physical which could yet throw a wrench into the works. As mentioned elsewhere, this could keep them from chasing the likes of Lowe, Wolf, Ollie, etc. thus reducing the demand pool by one more team. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 11:20 AM This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. smg58 Dec 31 2008 12:29 PM The Cubs sign Aaron Miles for two years, then trade DeRosa to the Indians for three low level (not even top 20) prospects. At least it's not the Phillies, but that's one mild upgrade over Castillo and one significant upgrade who found takers at prices we could have afforded. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:30 PM Cubs 2B Mark DeRosa - long rumored as part of a Jake Peavy trade - dealt to Cleveland for a trio of minor league pitchers. smg58 Dec 31 2008 12:36 PM Fuentes got two years at $17.5M, plus a club option. Rotoworld says "Fuentes almost certainly took less money to play close to home," but I'm not sure who was competing with the Angels. Frayed Knot Jan 02 2009 05:47 AM Good news folks, Barry Bonds says that he should be fully recovered from the hip surgery he needs in time for opening day! Nymr83 Jan 02 2009 06:41 AM ="Frayed Knot":1xejc7ja]Good news folks, Barry Bonds says that he should be fully recovered from the hip surgery he needs in time for opening day![/quote:1xejc7ja] Better news- nobody really cares about him anymore, including it seems the GMs of all 30 teams. DocTee Jan 02 2009 04:46 PM Tony Clark returns to D-Baggs: 1 year, 800K. metirish Jan 02 2009 05:34 PM Watching MLB Network Hot Stove and they are reporting that San Francisco have offered Manny Ramirez a four year deal. Dodgers and A Jones have agreed to defer most of his money owed likely leading to him playing elsewhere. Scott Proctor to the Marlins for one year. Ashie62 Jan 03 2009 12:33 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":2ytj1poh]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels.[/quote:2ytj1poh] This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker metsmarathon Jan 03 2009 12:40 PM ="Ashie62":hblnrkgs]Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker[/quote:hblnrkgs] i don't believe that for a second. Edgy DC Jan 03 2009 12:58 PM ="Ashie62"]="Benjamin Grimm"]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker Yeah, the Mets by not getting a third closer, are doing nothing. Kong76 Jan 03 2009 01:36 PM Maybe the three closer thing is the way to go after the last two seasons. Ashie62 Jan 05 2009 02:37 PM ="Edgy DC"]="Ashie62"]="Benjamin Grimm"]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker Yeah, the Mets by not getting a third closer, are doing nothing. True..my impatience caused me to jump over Krod & Putz KP DOOTY...I'm just frustrated that the odds of landing a power corner and a decent SP , Sheets, Garland, Lowe..are diminishing and pray the Mets are not newly cash short Burrell has a rep for being a prick but if the Rays can land him at 16 million for 2 years I then wonder why the Mets wouldn't top that and not have to expect 150 games from Murphy and even let Murphy learn 2B at AAA as an experiment. smg58 Jan 05 2009 03:15 PM The Cubs apparently are giving 3 years and $30M to Milton Bradley. They expect him to play right field full time, even though he has had trouble staying in the lineup when he's been the DH. Given Burrell's deal and the fact that Abreu would have made much more sense for them, I really don't get this one. MFS62 Jan 05 2009 04:20 PM ="smg58":1gnuo0ct]The Cubs apparently are giving 3 years and $30M to Milton Bradley. They expect him to play right field full time, even though he has had trouble staying in the lineup when he's been the DH. Given Burrell's deal and the fact that Abreu would have made much more sense for them, I really don't get this one.[/quote:1gnuo0ct] Can't wait to see him go head-to-head with Pinella. Later smg58 Jan 07 2009 05:51 AM And the bargains continue. Jason Giambi returns to Oakland for a year and an option, and Jerry Hairston stays in Cincinnatti for a year and $2M. I don't get the Mets' lack of interest in Hairston at that price. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 07 2009 06:20 AM ="smg58":162h2ehz]And the bargains continue. Jason Giambi returns to Oakland for a year and an option, and Jerry Hairston stays in Cincinnatti for a year and $2M. I don't get the Mets' lack of interest in Hairston at that price.[/quote:162h2ehz] Makes ya crazy. Geez. I mean, about Hairston. Frayed Knot Jan 07 2009 07:18 AM Maybe Hairston gets a chance to start in Cincy and couldn't be sure of that here. Never did even hear a rumor of them looking at him though. Also: - Pavano to Cleveland for a year at a low base with lotsa IP incentives - Cubs deal Jason Marquis (de Sade) to Colorado for LH reliever Luis Vizcaino Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 07:42 AM Andy Pettitte turns down one year and $10 million from the Yanks in a declining market. Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 10:10 AM Yomiuri Giant Koji Uehara signs with Bal'more for two years. Reports say that he's the team's first Japanese player, but they forget Nippo-Hawaiian Len Sakata. Centerfield Jan 07 2009 10:41 AM Len was American. smg58 Jan 07 2009 10:58 AM ="Frayed Knot":2gsb44fr]- Pavano to Cleveland for a year at a low base with lotsa IP incentives - Cubs deal Jason Marquis (de Sade) to Colorado for LH reliever Luis Vizcaino[/quote:2gsb44fr] I'll laugh if Pavano gives the Indians 27 starts (i.e., more starts than he gave the MFY's in four years). The Marquis deal appears to leave Jorge de la Rosa out of the rotation in Colorado. I'd see what the asking price for him is; he finished very strongly last year, and he's at least as good as Tim Redding. Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 11:01 AM ="Centerfield":biqnwx39]Len was American.[/quote:biqnwx39] As I said. Frayed Knot Jan 07 2009 12:00 PM From the; 'How the (somewhat) mighty have fallen' department: 2B Marcus Giles signs a minor league deal with Philly MFS62 Jan 07 2009 12:14 PM ="Frayed Knot":3hnipcdi]From the; 'How the (somewhat) mighty have fallen' department: 2B Marcus Giles signs a minor league deal with Philly[/quote:3hnipcdi] Pure insurance with Utley out for the early part of the year due to surgery. Later metirish Jan 07 2009 08:04 PM From MetsBlog Mike Fitzpatrick of the Associated Press believes the Mets have made an offer to free-agent RHP Tim Redding, who was 3-1 with a 3.41 ERA in five starts against the Phillies last season Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 08:56 PM I'll give Redding this: with one inning and six runs, he may be the worst performing Yankee ever. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 07 2009 09:06 PM Bocco Radelli to the Sed Rox. Rockin' Doc Jan 07 2009 10:03 PM If Rocco Baldelli can be reasonably healthy, he could be a great pick up for the Red Sox. I hope he is healthy and has a great season for the Sox. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 07:39 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3gx2svou]Bocco Radelli to the Sed Rox.[/quote:3gx2svou] And quite possibly Smoltz too! Not official yet but several outlets are reporting it's 'bout a done deal. I guess they're promising him a starting job - don't think he would have jumped otherwise. Other reports have Trevor Hoffman going to the Brews ... although this is only one day after others had him headed to the Dodgers. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 07:46 AM Sort of a homecoming for Smoltz. Didn't he start his career with the Braves when they were still playing in Boston? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 08 2009 07:50 AM No, the Tigers. Anywhoo, oughta soitenly remove Boston from the list of potential Lowe suitors (and cause me some concern too: Why don't any of Lowe's former employers want him back?) smg58 Jan 08 2009 07:50 AM The additions of Smoltz and Brad Penny probably take the Sox out of the discussions for Derek Lowe. Assuming Baldelli gets something like what Hairston got, I'd be a little annoyed that we didn't give him a look. We do need another righthanded bat. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 07:57 AM Yeah, I was half-hoping for Baldelli too. He's not a great player and has played fewer games in the last two seasons than Alou had in the two before we got him. But if this problem of his has finally been diagnosed correctly he could be a useful guy to have around. But Omar seems to be on this 'one problem at a time' schedule where nothing can even be talked about until the starter question is answered. metirish Jan 08 2009 08:01 AM Did bucket mis-read Ben's post? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 08 2009 08:02 AM Yes. Yes I did. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 08:14 AM I almost did too because I sometimes confuse the Smoltz trade with the Bagwell one from Boston. The Smoltz from Detroit for Denny Alexander trade happened around the same era as Bagwell for Larry Anderson. Both were done for pennant push help and in each case the minor leaguers were home-town guys (Smoltz is from Mich, Bags from Conn) who turned into HoF possibilities. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 08:17 AM Doyle Alexander. Now Denny McLain or somebody is getting into the conflation. metirish Jan 08 2009 10:25 AM Looking at a potential nightmare with outfield defense the MFY's are apparently looking to trade Swisher and Nady. Yankees fielding offers for Nady, Swisher Posted by: Jon Heyman The Yankees are fielding trade offers for corner outfielders Xavier Nady and Nick Swisher. There's been some speculation they might consider trading Hideki Matsui, too, but he has a full no-trade clause and is coming off knee surgery, so there's really no way to trade him. A logjam at the corners was created when the Yankees surprised a lot of folks and signed Mark Teixeira to an eight-year, $180 million contract. Swisher previously had been penciled in as the Yankees' first baseman but now becomes part of a crowded mix of accomplished corner outfielders. Swisher is a versatile player and can play some center field, as well. Some National League teams may be interested. However, Nady's trade value is higher after a better offensive season, so he may be just as likely to be dealt. Nady, acquired by the Yankees in a midseason trade with the Pirates, combined to hit .305 with 25 home runs and 97 RBIs for the year, while Swisher finished at .219 with 24 home runs and 69 RBIs for the White Sox before being dealt to the Yankees after the season Vic Sage Jan 08 2009 02:09 PM i'd sure take Nady back, to split time with Church, Murphy and Delgado. But no way the Yanx trade him cross town. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 02:30 PM You leave Tatis out of that mix. Nady gives you what Tatis gives you, only more and probably better and definitely younger. Tatis' only advantage is playing third. I'd love a Nady around because I think the best way to get something like last year's productivity out of Tatis is to make him earn every at-bat. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 02:43 PM Maybe Murphy will do that, but I'm not counting on it. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 02:46 PM What's going down, and I think a lot of us feel it, is that a lot of things went kind of right in Omar's offense that could have easily gone wronger, and he's kind of seeming to kind of be counting on a lot of those same thingies to go right again. Fans be pessemistic creatures, of course. Vic Sage Jan 08 2009 03:21 PM Last year, i think we got about as much as we can reasonably expect this year from 1b, ss, 3b and CF. We got nothing from 2b and C, and RF was a mixed bag. But Murphy/Tatis in LF certainly outperformed all expectations and i do not believe for a minute we'll get similar production from that combo again this year. So, we either upgrade at 2b, c, and/or Rf to compensate, or replace the LF combo before it blows up in our faces. Or we go into the season with 1/2 the lineup very well likely to suck, to one degree or another, even as Omar whistles past the graveyard. attgig Jan 08 2009 03:29 PM ="Vic Sage":37m9y64n]Last year, i think we got about as much as we can reasonably expect this year from 1b, ss, 3b and CF. We got nothing from 2b and C, and RF was a mixed bag. But Murphy/Tatis in LF certainly outperformed all expectations and i do not believe for a minute we'll get similar production from that combo again this year. So, we either upgrade at 2b, c, and/or Rf to compensate, or replace the LF combo before it blows up in our faces. Or we go into the season with 1/2 the lineup very well likely to suck, to one degree or another, even as Omar whistles past the graveyard.[/quote:37m9y64n] and you have a wild card at 1b, so it's not even half a lineup. nobody has faith in schnied to produce offensively, and while castro COULD provide some pop, he just gets hurt too often (he must be the worst backup catcher in the league). 2b, nobody has faith in castillo, except he's saying all the right things. and Church... will his head be screwed on straight? it'll be an interesting few more weeks before spring training. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 03:35 PM I agree with Vic, including about left field, but I'd be okay with giving Murphy/Tatis a chance to shine again. But in doing that, you have to protect yourself by beefing up some of the other positions. And as yet, the Mets haven't done anything towards that end. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 07:12 PM Ramon Castro, not the worst backup catcher in the league. DocTee Jan 09 2009 09:42 AM John Smoltz, Red Sock. metirish Jan 09 2009 12:35 PM Swisher the Yanks' preferred candidate over Nady BY KEN DAVIDOFF | ken.davidoff@newsday.com January 9, 2009 In their current roster logjam, the Yankees would strongly prefer to trade Xavier Nady and retain Nick Swisher, a person familiar with the club's thinking said yesterday. General manager Brian Cashman has received more requests for Swisher than for Nady. With spring training more than a month away and the season opener just about three months away, however, there is no imperative to execute a quick trade. The Mets enjoyed having Nady on their club for the first four months of the 2006 season, and they inquired about him last July, when the Yankees wound up getting him from Pittsburgh. For now, however, the Mets are focused on their starting rotation and are not looking to acquire a bat either through free agency or through a trade. Frayed Knot Jan 09 2009 01:54 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 09 2009 02:02 PM Swisher switch-hits, and is better and more versatile defensively. He's also signed for the next few years which could be either good or bad depending on whether he regains his hitting from last season's off year. Nady is more likely to hit better (though walk less) and would only be for one year at a price to be determined by arbitration then would be a FA after that. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 09 2009 01:59 PM If we weren't already loaded with lefthanded hitting outfielders, I'd take Godzilla as a LH bench masher in the Franco/Staub mold. Frayed Knot Jan 09 2009 02:04 PM As long as the Cranks would pay 90% of the freight and expect nothing back in return, sure. (OK, maybe 70% with a throw-in going the other way would do) Ashie62 Jan 09 2009 05:10 PM I feel safe to say Tatis has had his middle aged career year..I wouldn't put too high a ceiling there. Daniel Murphy needs more seasoning and I still advocate a year at AAA to learn 2B Mr. Nady..wasn't he a Met who know has Yankee cooties? metirish Jan 11 2009 03:46 PM Source: Martinez talking to Marlins By Enrique Rojas ESPNdeportes.com SANTO DOMINGO, Domican Republic -- Pedro Martinez and the Florida Marlins are believed to be in the beginning stages of negotiating a contract and could meet next week, a source told ESPNdeportes.com Saturday night. The Marlins have spoken with Martinez's agent. Martinez, 37, has won three Cy Young awards and has a career record of 214-99, with a 2.91 ERA and 3,117 strikeouts in 17 seasons with Los Angeles, Montreal, Boston and the New York Mets. Martinez struggled last season to a 5-6 record with a 5.61 ERA with the Mets, after battling injuries and dealing with the death of his father. In his first year with the Mets, Martinez won 15 games and struck out 208 batters in 217 innings. But he has been 17-15 in the last three seasons. Martinez owns a house in Miami. Fman99 Jan 11 2009 07:52 PM ="metirish"]Source: Martinez talking to Marlins By Enrique Rojas ESPNdeportes.com SANTO DOMINGO, Domican Republic -- Pedro Martinez and the Florida Marlins are believed to be in the beginning stages of negotiating a contract and could meet next week, a source told ESPNdeportes.com Saturday night. The Marlins have spoken with Martinez's agent. Martinez, 37, has won three Cy Young awards and has a career record of 214-99, with a 2.91 ERA and 3,117 strikeouts in 17 seasons with Los Angeles, Montreal, Boston and the New York Mets. Martinez struggled last season to a 5-6 record with a 5.61 ERA with the Mets, after battling injuries and dealing with the death of his father. In his first year with the Mets, Martinez won 15 games and struck out 208 batters in 217 innings. But he has been 17-15 in the last three seasons. Martinez owns a house in Miami. Pedro really looked spent in 2008, after having a respectable September prior. I don't think he has much in the tank and I would not miss all the drama. Rockin' Doc Jan 11 2009 09:29 PM Marlins not interested in signing Pedro By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com MIAMI -- Don't look for Pedro Martinez to wind up with the Marlins. A day after a report stated the Marlins were in the mix for the 37-year-old right-hander, a league source confirmed to MLB.com on Sunday that Florida has zero interest. Reports in the Miami Herald, Palm Beach Post and SunSentinel also ruled out the possibility of Martinez joining the club. On Saturday night, a report on ESPNdeportes.com stated the Marlins had discussions with agent Fernando Cuza regarding Martinez. The report added Florida may have begun preliminary contract talks, and that the two sides were expected to continue talking this week. As of late Sunday afternoon, the Marlins were not considered a possible fit. Martinez has a home in Miami, and he has expressed privately a desire to pitch for the Marlins. On Monday, Cuza is expected to have discussions with the Mets about a possible return to New York. The right-hander also is expected to test the free-agent market. Hampered by injuries last year, Martinez was 5-6 with a 5.61 ERA in 20 starts. He threw 109 innings. Working with minimal financial resources, the Marlins are looking for affordable free agents. The team did explore adding veteran Carl Pavano, who signed with the Indians. The Marlins are prepared to head into Spring Training with a rotation that includes Josh Johnson, Ricky Nolasco, Chris Volstad, Andrew Miller and Anibal Sanchez. Nolasco, eliglbe for arbitration, still has not signed. Florida continues to explore depth at catcher. The team is looking for low-priced options there. A free agent that could be a fit is Ivan Rodriguez, but only if his price tag continues to drop this month. Frayed Knot Jan 12 2009 07:01 AM IOW, the earlier story was an agent plant. Edgy DC Jan 12 2009 08:20 AM Yeah, use the threat of the Daddy Warbucks Marlins to trigger a false bidding war. That's the ticket. Rockin' Doc Jan 12 2009 11:09 AM I think that Pedro had far more interest in the Marlins than they had in him. I believe that Pedro is desperate to play another season, but I don't think teams throughout the league are very interested in signing him. Pedro was once a dominant, HOF caliber pitcher, but he seems to be the one person that doesn't see how far removed from his former greatness he now is. metirish Jan 12 2009 11:17 AM If Pedro Martinez retired tomorrow he would surely be in the HOF at first ballot , wouldn't he? Rockin' Doc Jan 12 2009 11:21 AM I was not inferring that Pedro Martinez was not worthy of enshrinement in Coopperstown. He has had a tremendous career and was arguably one of the top 2 or 3 pitchers in MLB for several seasons. I would vote for him (if I had a vote) when his name comes up on the HOF ballot. I was simply stating that he is not nearly the dominant pitcher he once was. Edgy DC Jan 12 2009 11:22 AM I think he's pretty aware of what happened last year. If he didn't still believe he could turn it around, he wouldn't be the great pitcher he is. What's more, I believe he could turn it around. In his prime, he had an unprecedented four killer pitches, so it's not like he was fastball-reliant. It's a matter of finding what he can do with what's left of his fastball and using it to complement the rest of his arsenal. That's a far ways from saying he will return to a productive level, but I'm certain he can. Glavine continued to pitch effectively with a powder puff fastball and a change. While his control was still very good, Pedro's has always been even better. And if I'm the Mets, I'm willing to spend some change to find out. Giving him Redding's money with an automatically vesting bonus year of $9 million if he gets 180 innings? Yeah, go for it. I'm certain he can do as well as Redding in 2009, and a damn fine bet to do better. The only thing Redding has over him is a better doctor's report. metirish Jan 12 2009 05:05 PM Michael Young wants out of Texas , can play 2nd base. I should add that Heyman just said on the Hot stove that he has %62 million left on his big contract. smg58 Jan 12 2009 05:22 PM Young's expensive, and the dropoff in his numbers over the past three years has been precipitous. Even if they took Castillo it would still be a $10M payroll hit, and he's just not that good anymore. Frayed Knot Jan 15 2009 01:14 PM Dodgers reportedly to release Andruw before today is out Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2009 01:52 PM Wow. He's horrendously overpaid, but they're going to have to eat that contract anyway. Is there no hope of him having a bounceback year? Someone will be able to pick him up for minimum wage, and they may get a hell of a bargain at the Dodgers expense. metirish Jan 15 2009 01:56 PM Jones was on MLB Network the other night talking about how he would love to go back to the Braves. Edgy DC Jan 15 2009 02:01 PM No doubt. metsmarathon Jan 15 2009 02:28 PM i'd give andruw a shot, for minimum wage... Frayed Knot Jan 15 2009 05:45 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":2v9kwf3v]Wow. He's horrendously overpaid, but they're going to have to eat that contract anyway. Is there no hope of him having a bounceback year?[/quote:2v9kwf3v] I guess not enough of a chance in their minds to make carrying him all year worth it. They restructured his deal last week with a release in mind so I assume they're going to do similar thing to what we did with Bonilla (only on a much bigger scale): pay out the remainder over a long period to avoid getting hit with it all at once. Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2009 08:34 AM The Philadelphia Inquirer is reporting today that the Phillies are aggressively trying to sign Moises Alou. metirish Jan 23 2009 08:36 AM Would Alou be a starter there or would he be in a limited role , who's in the outfield there along with Ibanez?...Dobbs?....Victorino? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 23 2009 08:37 AM Watch him hit .500 and stay healthy all year. Bastard. Frayed Knot Jan 23 2009 08:44 AM He wouldn't start there - but he'd be a potentially good RH bat off the bench for a predominately lefty hitting squad. Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2009 08:51 AM The three options (Perez, Wolf, and Sheets) may be soon reduced to two: ="MLB.com":2t16pb69]The deep freeze that's been the Major League free-agent market this winter has shown indications a thaw is coming -- at least for starting pitchers. On the heels of the Mets reaching an apparent agreement on a Minor League deal with right-hander Freddy Garcia, it looks like the Dodgers have taken the inside track in the competition for lefty starter Randy Wolf's services. According to sources for FoxSports.com, Wolf could most likely be signed to a one or two-year deal. Wolf previously pitched for Los Angeles in 2007 and was 12-12 with a 4.30 ERA in a combined 33 starts last season for the Padres and Astros. FoxSports.com said Wolf would get less than the three-year, $28 million offer the pitcher turned down from Houston earlier this winter. [/quote:2t16pb69] metsguyinmichigan Jan 23 2009 08:57 AM Supposedly, Sheets is meeting with the Rangers. metirish Jan 23 2009 08:58 AM Wolf turned down an offer for that much? , and I was thinking he could be had for a song on a one year deal. sharpie Jan 23 2009 08:58 AM Fine. I actually saw Wolf pitch twice last year, at the only game I attended at MFY Stadium and at the game I attended at Petco. Both time he got shellacked. smg58 Jan 23 2009 09:34 AM There are a number of available starters who can give you at least a league average ERA, several of whom have the upside to do significantly better. Randy Wolf is not one of them. I see no point in pursuing a demonstrably inferior pitcher just because he's a lefty. Edgy DC Jan 23 2009 09:59 AM I don't think anybody but Wally Matthews is arguing that his leftiness is important, and Wally is only throwing that pitch to drum up "Mets Gotta Steal Pettitte" angles. Who do you have your eye on? metirish Jan 23 2009 08:11 PM Just turned over to MLB Network after watching "What Not To Wear" and heard Tom Verducci say that Perez is moving closer to signing with the Mets. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 23 2009 08:59 PM Here's the source: Jon "Boras Boy" Heyman ]Mets extend offer to Perez, their top target The Mets have placed an offer on the table for free-agent lefthander Oliver Perez, SI.com has learned, and are hopeful to have an answer in coming days regarding their prime pitching target. The Mets are believed to have improved their original thought, which was for about $30 million over three years. But it isn't certain what their latest offer is. Perez remains the Mets' top choice for the final spot in their rotation, though the team has remained in contact with three other free-agent pitchers -- Randy Wolf, Jon Garland and Ben Sheets. They know they'd have competition for Wolf (Dodgers), Garland (Diamondbacks) and Sheets (Rangers, possibly Yankees) but aren't sure what other teams are competing for Perez. The Mets had been hopeful to land free agent Derek Lowe earlier but were surprised when the rival Braves outbid them by $24 million, landing Lowe with a $60-million, four-year contract. Perez, 27, is eight years younger than Lowe, though not quite as consistent. Mets GM Omar Minaya would love to import Perez, so the Mets are not likely to take one of the other pitchers unless he feels his chances for Perez are gone. Nymr83 Jan 24 2009 12:14 PM I hope "the mystery team" comes and raises perez's price too high so we can sign Sheets. Then Boras and Perez can admit there was no mystery team and we get both at a reduced rate! MFS62 Jan 24 2009 01:21 PM If money is the issue, I'd like to see the Mets sign Sheets and with any Ollie Perez money left over, go out and sign Odalis Perez. His ERA was only .10 worse than Ollie's last year, is still only 32 years old, and probably be signed for far less money than any of the other names that have been in the press lately. Later MFS62 Jan 24 2009 01:21 PM Oops. Dupe Sorry Later seawolf17 Jan 30 2009 01:00 PM Varitek back to Boston for one year, $5 million. Frayed Knot Jan 30 2009 02:36 PM Varitek's (read: Boras's) threat to sit out the season and/or retire didn't get the Sox to budge I see. Tek is one of several who turned down arbitration offers this winter only to wind up not only with a much smaller deal than arb would have snagged him but didn't get the multi-year deal either. Now it's hope you play well and the economy improves when you can do the same dance next year. Ashie62 Feb 02 2009 03:56 PM Anyone for Varitek via trade and a pay raise? Fman99 Feb 02 2009 07:27 PM ="Ashie62":2t5ssjz6]Anyone for Varitek via trade and a pay raise?[/quote:2t5ssjz6] .220 metirish Feb 02 2009 07:43 PM Is that his weight or his average? , sucks either way though. metirish Feb 04 2009 11:35 AM ]Left-hander Chase Wright was traded by the New York Yankees to the Milwaukee Brewers on Wednesday for outfielder-catcher Eric Fryer. metirish Feb 07 2009 02:23 PM Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's. Rockin' Doc Feb 07 2009 05:10 PM metirish - "Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's." Good to see that Jones has his pride. Better to go unsigned than sell one's soul by possibly donning a Yankee uniform. I suddenly have a new sense of respect for Jones. MFS62 Feb 08 2009 07:35 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2e2xwbch]metirish - "Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's." Good to see that Jones has his pride. Better to go unsigned than sell one's soul by possibly donning a Yankee uniform. I suddenly have a new sense of respect for Jones.[/quote:2e2xwbch] B'sides, they couldn't have the signing photo op soon anyhow. They'd first have to send out Cecil Fielder's uni to have the seams let out to fit Jones. Later Frayed Knot Feb 08 2009 08:45 PM Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do. Fman99 Feb 09 2009 06:44 AM ="Frayed Knot":1zv55w66]Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do.[/quote:1zv55w66] Yeah, poor guy. My heart breaks for him. /sarcasm Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 07:07 AM It's not like he doesn't get to keep the 15 miills. Vic Sage Feb 09 2009 09:08 AM yeah, i mean basically he just got a raise! Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 09:26 AM Sure, it just shows a helluva difference between what someone thought he was worth last year vs what they think he's worth barely a year later. How the mighty (and fat) have fallen.

But because he's hurt, he can be stashed on the DL, I believe.

I don't know if the Putz deal counts as the 9th or the 10th, but if it's the 10th... New York Mets traded Nolan Ryan, Leroy Stanton, Francisco Estrada and Don Rose to the California Angels for Jim Fregosi on December 10, 1971. New York Mets traded Mike Scott to the Houston Astros for Danny Heep on December 10, 1982. New York Mets traded Hubie Brooks, Mike Fitzgerald, Herm Winningham and Floyd Youmans to the Montreal Expos for Gary Carter on December 10, 1984. A couple of minor deals later also on the 10th, but those were three biggies.

Think of the money they'll save on jersey name letters alone. I don't like giving up Smith, but whatever. What's Putz's contract status?

Heilman, Chavez, Carp for Putz? Yes. Heilman, Chavez, Carp and Joe Smith for Putz? No.

Who let StevieJeets steal Edgy's password?

Fucking hell, Frod. 17 is Keith Fucking Hernandez's number. Take 77 and like it.

One of my favorite players on the move, as Ryan Freel and two prospects go to Baltimore for catcher Ramon Hernandez.

"Frod" sounds good. Goes well with "Fartinez."

Bingo bango. Welcome abordick, Senor Rodriguez. Now stand on the table and sing your college fight song.

I wish I knew how to play cricket.

="Nymr83"]Aren't you forgetting someone?

Currently, yes. All-time, he's not even in the Top Ten.

="metirish":cf49cmfu]High staircase and escalator obviously , people falling and going splat on the Robinson rotunda is to be expected I would think.[/quote:cf49cmfu] Considering what happened this year, you'd think they'd be conscious of that. Benjamin Grimm Dec 04 2008 01:40 PM They should string circus-style safety nets below each of the escalators. That concourse does look nice. It's easy to see how you could be standing on the hot dog line while keeping an eye on the game. That, I think, is the best thing that the new stadium will have over Shea. I also like the visible steel infrastructure, although that's hardly an innovation. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 04 2008 01:43 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":3jnxf2zm] I also like the visible steel infrastructure, although that's hardly an innovation.[/quote:3jnxf2zm] Yeah, though its supposed to subtly remind you of the bridge on the Mets logo, which is supposed to remind you of how the Mets reached across the city to "bridge" fans of the Giants and Dodgers, and the Eastsiders and Westsiders, and Kiddies and Wives, and the Butcher, the Baker and the People on the Street. Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 01:49 PM Thank God the Mets brought kiddies and wives together. Willets Point Dec 04 2008 03:19 PM ="Edgy DC":h0g9fccu]You've been reading my blog.[/quote:h0g9fccu] I want to read this blog. Valadius Dec 04 2008 04:02 PM I like the use of brick on the inside of the stadium rather than just the facade. Rockin' Doc Dec 04 2008 05:23 PM No one will ever pull an Endy on that left field wall. How tall is that wall in left field? Zvon Dec 04 2008 05:33 PM What I like: almost everything. It looks beautiful, real low to the ground. User friendly for the fan. On the whole a nice new home for my Metsies. What I don't like: I've never been a fan of the two tier bullpen. Hate em! Bullpen fights could make things exciting though. I really like the use of chain link fence here, but that one outjutting looks like trouble to me. Once again, the whole right field set up should make things exciting. (I'm not against "exciting", I just do not like silly injuries) I like an outfield wall where there's always a possibility of pulling one back into the park. So I'm not too thrilled with the height of that left field wall. I am assuming that these are the outfield walls (that there wont be wooden ones placed a foot or so in front of those we see, which I think I'd prefer). I'm sure that if they go with these concrete walls that will be padded with the best material available, but I still don't like the idea of a wall with absolutely no give to it. Don't mind me. Im just being an idiopathic idiosyncrat. themetfairy Dec 04 2008 05:57 PM Not at all Zvon - I enjoyed your illustrative input. Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 06:05 PM I like an outfield wall with a hidden door that an outfielder can suddenly disappear through. Valadius Dec 04 2008 06:36 PM It's almost like they're setting up for a Field of Dreams cornfield stunt. Frayed Knot Dec 04 2008 09:20 PM Or a Manny signing. soupcan Dec 07 2008 04:02 PM Old Apple goes here? Benjamin Grimm Dec 07 2008 05:23 PM My understanding (could be wrong, though) is that the old apple is going to be inside the stadium but somewhere in centerfield. Edgy DC Dec 07 2008 05:36 PM That'll be an all-nu apple. soupcan Dec 07 2008 05:42 PM You saying all-nu inside or all-nu outside? Edgy DC Dec 07 2008 07:15 PM All-nu inside. soupcan Dec 07 2008 07:21 PM Right - but that podium or hole or whatever is outside, so I'm thinking that's where the old one will go. Or a statue..? Frayed Knot Dec 07 2008 07:23 PM Yeah, my understanding was nu-apple inside, apple-classic on view somewhere outside. G-Fafif Dec 07 2008 08:08 PM Both will be out in center, according to Metsblog, which was on the media tour last week. ]For starters, Jeff Wilpon told reporters that the old Home-Run Apple from Shea Stadium will be on display in back of the concourse in center field, which was good to hear. However, a new Apple will pop up from a concrete cannister beneath the center-field scoreboard. That thing they're building outside, obviously, is a kiddie pool. soupcan Dec 12 2008 02:41 PM So the outside is an homage to Ebbets. The green seats are supposedly a nod to the Polo Grounds. Where's Shea? Oh there it is, on the floor of the locker room. Is that the ugliest damn rug you've ever seen or what? Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 02:44 PM That honor still belongs to the late Joe Pepitone. Zvon Dec 12 2008 02:49 PM That is one ugly rug. So Shea gets the honor of being stepped on? Valadius Dec 12 2008 04:58 PM Pepitone's rug looks like Blagojevich's. metirish Dec 12 2008 05:03 PM ="Edgy DC":befgt7hd]That honor still belongs to the late Joe Pepitone. [/quote:befgt7hd] Very funny. dgwphotography Dec 12 2008 05:11 PM ="Edgy DC"]That honor still belongs to the late Joe Pepitone. I'm think Phil here would give Joe a run for his money: themetfairy Dec 12 2008 05:14 PM That has to be Phil's own hair. Nobody would construct a toupee THAT ugly! metsguyinmichigan Dec 12 2008 05:43 PM ="metirish":3bn5ocf6]="Edgy DC":3bn5ocf6]That honor still belongs to the late Joe Pepitone. [/quote:3bn5ocf6] Very funny.[/quote:3bn5ocf6] WOW. And the rug on the guy on the right in the tan coat is horrible, too! And if I were Phil Spector's attorney, I'd go for the insanity defense and just point to him sitting there with that 'do and sit back and wait for the acquittal. soupcan Dec 12 2008 07:11 PM Pepitone's dead? Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 07:59 PM Guess not. My boo-boo. Sorry, Joe. I just sent a white elephant Christmas gift to my sister's Yankfan boyfriend. It was a Yankee hat that my brother got Pepitone's autograph on. What did he ever think I'd want with that. One time Pepitone, after missing a ballgame with a niggling injury while playing in Japan, was photographed at a disco later, out dancing with his wig. To this day, supposedly, American players who come to Japan and play the diva are called "Pepitones." Willets Point Dec 13 2008 05:52 PM ="soupcan":1k1wbb9f] Is that the ugliest damn rug you've ever seen or what?[/quote:1k1wbb9f] The carpet will be vastly improved by frequently soaking it in champagne. Farmer Ted Dec 13 2008 06:47 PM I was living in NC in the mid 90s and in charge of putting on a sports-related banquet. The Yankees had a minor league team in Greensboro for a number of years and the committee board voted to have a former Yankee or a current member of the organization to be the featured speaker. I swallowed my pride and called the Bronx. The PR office hack said someone would be in touch in a few days. Phone rings 20 minutes later. Pepitone on the other end. No shit. I explain we're looking for a speaker yadda yadda yadda and he says "I'll do it (basically volunteering himself). We can work on a fee but you need to fly me down there. Great times I had in that town." Apparently he had the gig of lining up the Yankees alumni for public appearances. I went back to the committee and told them Pepitone was the best I could do (not that I tried any harder). The room busted into hysterical laughter and we found someone else from a different sport to speak. Edgy DC Dec 13 2008 07:03 PM There was an episode of Mad About You where Jamie asked what ballplayer they can get for a personal appearance on a limited budget. Paul's answer was an aging swinger of a sixties Yankee firstbaseman clearly based on the Pep. cooby Dec 13 2008 07:56 PM I swear I was thinking about Joe Pepitone this morning. And why? Ashie62 Dec 17 2008 07:05 AM ="cooby":3lcpnzjo]I swear I was thinking about Joe Pepitone this morning. And why?[/quote:3lcpnzjo] Did you wake up with a woody? Rockin' Doc Dec 17 2008 10:24 AM I believe that would be a physical impossibility for cooby. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 11:46 AM well, this thread sure has taken some strange strange turns hasn't it? Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 07:49 AM NEW YORK-- Mayor Michael Bloomberg's administration will forgo luxury boxes at the new Yankees and Mets ballparks, the city said Tuesday after months of criticism about its handling of the stadium projects. The administration has worked out a new deal with the Yankees to get extra money, instead of a luxury box. A separate and similar agreement is being worked out with the Mets for their new park, a Bloomberg spokesman said. Senior Bloomberg aides had fought hard to get the luxury boxes, describing the perk in internal e-mails as "a big issue to the mayor" during negotiations with the teams in 2006. That battle for the boxes only recently came to light as state and federal lawmakers launched investigations into how the teams and the administration went about making those deals. The decision to give up the luxury boxes comes as Bloomberg seeks reelection this year and repeatedly cites the city's enormous budget shortfalls. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 07 2009 07:56 AM They gave it up at the same time they were forced to cough up reams of smoking guns on how filthy the whole thing was, including begging by the MFYs to increase their duistribution of public $$ to cover shit like their scoreboard and video board. Mets are also asking for more but about half the MFYs overall since the project was so much less expensive. Centerfield Jan 07 2009 03:17 PM I think the Mets should sign Manny and ask the public to pick up the tab.

="Nymr83":1g5y35ta]Allen has a 156 OPS+ over 15 years, that should be automatic inclusion.[/quote:1g5y35ta] Hey! We agree! Edgy DC Dec 03 2008 08:12 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 06 2008 07:39 AM I don't think there's such a thing as an automatic anything. Bill James pretty much says he jerked his way out of the Hall of Fame and seems to agree, or at least acknowledge where the writers were coming from. You don't have to agree, but I think declaring anything to be a no-brainer is intellectually lazy. The time for thinkers has come. Frayed Knot Dec 06 2008 07:20 AM More Raines love A rather lengthy treatise on why Tim Raines belongs, comparing him as a leadoff hitter to other leadoffs already in or likely headed for the HoF and reaching concluions like; Take a big part of Rickey Henderson and Pete Rose, add a good size part of Lou Brock, Paul Molitor, and Craig Biggio, and stir in some Ichiro Suzuki, Wade Boggs, Joe Morgan, Derek Jeter, and Barry Bonds, and you get a composite that is a shade inferior to Tim Raines. ... and then doing the same with Raines as #3 hitter, and then again as an overall career. I'm convinced. Edgy DC Dec 06 2008 07:44 AM We tend to say we're offended by the use of magic number thresholds reached in compiling career totals, but isn't the failure to reach 3,000 hits the main case against Raines? And couldn't he have pulled it of pretty easily if he (1) walked a little less, or (2) spent his disease-diminished twilight hitting full-time at league average for a lesser team rather than hitting part-time above league average for contenders? Valadius Dec 06 2008 09:21 PM You can't blame a guy for wanting to win championships. Frayed Knot Jan 05 2009 09:16 AM Results revealed a week from today. Meanwhile, Newsday's Ken Davidoff[/url:fmb4ds8p] reveals not only his ballot but his reasoning behind each vote while showing a willingness to change his mind and adapt to changing thinking. Plus I think I agree with him on all his choices (and non-choices). Nymr83 Jan 05 2009 09:39 AM ="Frayed Knot":3l2ojh0o]Results revealed a week from today. Meanwhile, Newsday's Ken Davidoff[/url:3l2ojh0o] reveals not only his ballot but his reasoning behind each vote while showing a willingness to change his mind and adapt to changing thinking. Plus I think I agree with him on all his choices (and non-choices).[/quote:3l2ojh0o] "The statistics stand the test of time. Our memories are not as reliable." That should be rule #1 of HOF voting. metirish Jan 05 2009 09:45 AM That's some good stuff there form Davidoff . I like his honesty and that he can change from year to year.

="Rockin' Doc":3hvjycm8] Montgomery Brewster[/quote:3hvjycm8] Bingo! Exactly what I was thinking. Edgy DC Dec 03 2008 11:05 AM I was thinking of him as Charlie Snow in Bingo Long. A Boy Named Seo Dec 12 2008 04:39 PM Thought current guy was reverse-negative John Franco. Armando Reynoso? Kong76 Dec 12 2008 06:11 PM Yup � And I think it was Maddox too, I thought I answered last week. cooby Dec 14 2008 05:55 PM Okay who is that? cooby Dec 15 2008 07:02 PM Willie Mays! Rockin' Doc Dec 15 2008 09:01 PM Willie was the man. Kong76 Dec 20 2008 06:51 PM Updated ... http://www.kcmets.com/CPF/banner.html DocTee Dec 20 2008 07:20 PM Cranepool (row 3, col 1) and Leiter (5,3) could be twins. Kong76 Dec 20 2008 07:42 PM Krane is 3,3. Love that grin on 3,1 and you're right about the resemblance with 5,3. DocTee Dec 20 2008 08:15 PM who's 3,1? Kong76 Dec 21 2008 09:41 AM I'm guessing a really young Swoboda? I'm drawing a blank, a young Grote? I'll find the source picture this afternoon and post it. Kong76 Dec 21 2008 01:54 PM It's Grote, I was wrong on a couple of levels. It's the 7th picture in the top 100 and Swoboda is in the top 200. I looked through '65-'69 and the 1970 yearbook and I can't find where I cropped that from. Can anyone sell me a clue? metirish Dec 21 2008 04:52 PM Love the new banner , nice work. Willets Point Dec 21 2008 05:13 PM MR. MET: "Merry Christmas, you old wonderful savings & loan!" Kong76 Dec 21 2008 05:22 PM Credit goes to the 2006 Mets holiday card they sent out (and KB who found it today going through old xmas cards) ... I figure we'll leave the ol' red-stitched head up until next weekend. A Boy Named Seo Dec 21 2008 10:07 PM Love it. cooby Dec 23 2008 08:41 PM ="KC"]It's Grote, I was wrong on a couple of levels. It's the 7th picture in the top 100 and Swoboda is in the top 200. I looked through '65-'69 and the 1970 yearbook and I can't find where I cropped that from. Can anyone sell me a clue? I remember that picture and my first yearbook was 1972 so look in the early 70's KC. Edgy DC Dec 23 2008 09:15 PM He's got Grote's signature unpigmented patches on his face. Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 06:26 AM Patches which later manifested themselves as unpigmented patches of hair when he grew a beard. G-Fafif Jan 14 2009 04:48 PM LOOK WHO'S NO. 1 is, appropriately, the No. 1 banner yet. Kong76 Jan 14 2009 06:06 PM Yeah, I ran out of pics of the top 100-200 Mets. I need to hit the boxes. I've been busy and figure a generic classic a day here or there is cool in the dead of Jan and Feb instead of looking at Elio for another day longer. (nothing against Elio's mug, of course) SteveJRogers Jan 16 2009 03:32 PM Strange shot of Murray Kase. Plus, ummm the Met logo is quite visable. Kong76 Jan 16 2009 03:57 PM Logo is pretty blurry on my end. I think that's one of those Brace photos. I think you're the one who pointed out sometime ago that many of them are in Chicago. Kong76 Jan 18 2009 07:15 PM Just noticed on the lcd screen if you tilt it right the words from the opposite page bleed through. Hard to get good help these days. cooby Jan 22 2009 04:52 PM !!!! themetfairy Jan 27 2009 05:25 PM Matt Franco? Kong76 Jan 27 2009 07:31 PM Matt it is. I was waiting for the computer to do something and I was thumbing through the scorecard/program that Baerga was in and found Franco who we needed for top 200. I was doing them sorta randomly, but this knocked one more guy off. I'll pick it up and round out the last 45, I've been busy. How did Harry Parker land at #130 on our all time 500 Mets list? seawolf17 Jan 27 2009 07:40 PM ="Kong76":2mpdu8tr]How did Harry Parker land at #130 on our all time 500 Mets list?[/quote:2mpdu8tr] I was actually wondering the same thing. I'm using that list for my Mets autograph collection, and he's one of the few Top 200 guys I still need... and I don't think I've ever even heard of him. SteveJRogers Jan 27 2009 07:56 PM ="Kong76":3kheizku] How did Harry Parker land at #130 on our all time 500 Mets list?[/quote:3kheizku] Because the Mets have had a lot more crappy players and Parker lasted long enough to be considered a "decent piece of crap" or something? SteveJRogers Jan 27 2009 07:57 PM Speaking of which, Butch Huskey in the Top 100? But hey, I guess that is what you get when you create a system that rewards the here and now over the whole picture of a Metly career. Kong76 Jan 27 2009 08:07 PM A lot of work went into the rankings, and it's not perfect ... I threw out Harry because looking at who I need to get pics of and when I see him at 130 I scratched my head. I don't really understand the what you mean by rewarding the here and now over the whole picture or whatever. But whatever. SteveJRogers Jan 27 2009 08:22 PM ="Kong76":3gb03sli]A lot of work went into the rankings, and it's not perfect ... I threw out Harry because looking at who I need to get pics of and when I see him at 130 I scratched my head. I don't really understand the what you mean by rewarding the here and now over the whole picture or whatever. But whatever.[/quote:3gb03sli] I know Kase. What I was going was that the position for a given year hold for that player, they can not move down on their own merit, they can only go up on their merit. To use, eh, Doc Gooden as an example. He built enough of a lead off of his first few seasons that despite his fall off starting roughly in 1987 that he would never falter from his lofty place in Met-dom. Oh sure he eventually put up numbers that make his place on our rankings warranted, but if a Met historian was going through the totality of Met history, Doc could concievably rank third, fourth or even fifth among all time Met hurlers (eh, only Koosman off hand do I see even being considered to be placed higher but you never know with some Sabermetricians or anyone really). Frayed Knot Jan 27 2009 09:09 PM ="SteveJRogers"]I guess that is what you get when you create a system that rewards the here and now over the whole picture of a Metly career. Actually the system specifically takes into account the "whole picture of a Metly career" so I don't know WTF you're talking about. And, no, I don't want an explanation because I don't think you do either so a follow up will probably just make us both more confused. Rockin' Doc Jan 27 2009 09:24 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 28 2009 11:19 AM Sometimes when I read Steve's posts, I think he's typing in tongues. Edgy DC Jan 28 2009 07:03 AM ="SteveJRogers":3k37b4p7]Oh sure he eventually put up numbers that make his place on our rankings warranted, but if a Met historian was going through the totality of Met history, Doc could concievably rank third, fourth or even fifth among all time Met hurlers (eh, only Koosman off hand do I see even being considered to be placed higher but you never know with some Sabermetricians or anyone really).[/quote:3k37b4p7] That's true. You never know with anyone. ? Benjamin Grimm Jan 28 2009 02:04 PM What's funny to me is that when the banner has a photo of someone who played for the Mets 30 to 35 years ago, I recognize him every time. But when it's someone from the last ten to fifteen years, I often don't know for sure who it is. cooby Jan 28 2009 06:25 PM god, I'm glad somebody else said that first. Edgy DC Jan 28 2009 06:29 PM ="cooby":nushvdsi]god, I'm glad somebody else said that first.[/quote:nushvdsi] I'm glad somebody else said that second. Of course, you and I don't have a database of these mugs. SteveJRogers Jan 28 2009 07:19 PM ="Edgy DC":3lhjvaqr]="SteveJRogers":3lhjvaqr]Oh sure he eventually put up numbers that make his place on our rankings warranted, but if a Met historian was going through the totality of Met history, Doc could concievably rank third, fourth or even fifth among all time Met hurlers (eh, only Koosman off hand do I see even being considered to be placed higher but you never know with some Sabermetricians or anyone really).[/quote:3lhjvaqr] That's true. You never know with anyone. ?[/quote:3lhjvaqr] I should really cut out the incoherent part of my ramblings huh? You never know what someone is going to do when justifying reasons for putting Dwight Gooden lower than 2nd on a list of all-time Metly hurlers. Maybe Matlack's and Darling's postseason successes could make someone chose them over Gooden. I wouldn't, but I can see that case being made. Kong76 Jan 28 2009 07:43 PM SJI: I should really cut out the incoherent part of my ramblings huh? <<< I utter this to myself often, but I ramble on. Don't change, Steve ... the only person you can be is you. SteveJRogers Jan 31 2009 06:32 PM Kase, why am I looking at Sidd Fynch? It is not April 1st yet. Well, just asking in case there is a reason beyond "random generator." Kong76 Jan 31 2009 07:08 PM Super Bowl Sunday silliness. metsguyinmichigan Feb 01 2009 08:40 PM Brilliant! metirish Feb 02 2009 06:47 AM One of the best stories ever told.....love it. Frayed Knot Feb 02 2009 07:37 AM We could definitely use Finch in our rotation this year but he's recently hired Boras as his agent and now there are rumors of a secret monastery in the bidding for his services. Kong76 Feb 02 2009 03:49 PM Going over my lists, I think I messed up a few things ... First, I think I did Eddie Murray twice. This is Dick Selma, right? Frisella and Heilman remain from the top 100 as undone. I did Charlie Neal twice too? I better not quit my day job. Edgy DC Feb 03 2009 07:20 AM Neal's intensity is worth a double dose, though. He looks part Comanche. batmagadanleadoff Feb 03 2009 05:23 PM Neal's batting helmet is flocked. Kong76 Feb 03 2009 06:10 PM It is kind of an odd picture. It's cropped from a photo in Tales from the 1962 New York Mets, by Janet Paskin, and the photo credit is Getty Images. Edgy DC Feb 04 2009 07:01 AM Getty was born in the nineties. Funny to see them distributing pictures of the early Mets, but I guess they've been buying up old libraries. They're a great business model for the nu economy, by the way. themetfairy Feb 27 2009 06:38 PM themetfairy Mar 02 2009 04:22 PM David Weathers? Kong76 Mar 03 2009 12:35 PM Formality of doing all top 200 ... I got rid of him quick :-) Benjamin Grimm Mar 03 2009 12:38 PM Didn't we once calculate that it will take something like 60,000 years for Tom Seaver to fall out of the top 500? I wonder how long it would take for David Weathers to fall out of the top 200? themetfairy Mar 03 2009 06:44 PM ="Kong76":2bnhmr7e]Formality of doing all top 200 ... I got rid of him quick :-)[/quote:2bnhmr7e] It wasn't a complaint. Weathers was actually nice to the kids before a game in Kansas City (shortly before he was traded). I was just trying to identify the photo. Kong76 Mar 04 2009 04:45 AM I didn't think you were complaining. seawolf17 Mar 25 2009 03:09 PM Is that my homeboy, Pistol Pete Harnisch? Kong76 Mar 25 2009 03:43 PM Yup �, from a 1995 program ... soupcan Mar 27 2009 07:36 AM Crazy Pete! SteveJRogers Mar 28 2009 09:34 AM Nicely done! Benjamin Grimm Apr 03 2009 02:06 PM Ray Knight looks like he's squeezing out a fart. metirish Apr 03 2009 02:29 PM Looks a bit like Kevin Appier when I first took notice , Appier featured that stance quite a bit too IIRC. TransMonk Apr 07 2009 03:49 PM Never bitched before, but the banner reads: Everybody in the pool! Joining us for off-season hot stove discussion is easy. Shoot us an email introducing yourself and letting us know what user name you'd like to use. An admin will activate your user name asap, and send you sign-on instructions. Thanks for visiting! Time to update for 2009! Kong76 Apr 07 2009 04:00 PM Thanks for the nudge, I was dosing again. TransMonk Apr 08 2009 09:26 AM As always, the admins do a great job with this site. MFS62 Apr 08 2009 10:07 AM ="TransMonk":34eve5h6]As always, the admins do a great job with this site.[/quote:34eve5h6] Except when they ignore my fervent plea for help. Later Kong76 Apr 08 2009 05:17 PM Trying to make my numbers add up. This was Jeff Reardon, right? ... Kong76 Apr 08 2009 05:28 PM 142 doesn't show up with my chicken scratch list either. Dick Selma? I'm just being lazy, I'll figure it out if no one chimes in. SteveJRogers Apr 12 2009 07:00 PM Whats with the Announcer Troika? Not that I'm complaining of course. Edgy DC Apr 12 2009 07:26 PM Seems self-explanatory. Met Hunter Apr 12 2009 11:34 PM ="Kong76"]Trying to make my numbers add up. This was Jeff Reardon, right? ... This one looks like Neil Allen. Met Hunter Apr 12 2009 11:34 PM ="Kong76"]142 doesn't show up with my chicken scratch list either. Dick Selma? I'm just being lazy, I'll figure it out if no one chimes in. This is Larry Bearnarth. Kong76 Apr 15 2009 06:33 PM Thanks, MH ... I've been busy and haven't been able to look at this much. SteveJRogers Apr 20 2009 06:26 PM So the player's name is going to be linked in the banner going forward, or is this just a random "hey it's Cliff, why not" sort of thing? Kong76 Apr 20 2009 07:19 PM Started with D.J. Dozier over the weekend, no one noticed. Top 200 Mets thing died with ~ 15 left ... the CPF contract with the Ramones has expired too ... everyone hates the new stadium ... David Wright can only hit when no one is on base ... if it weren't for Johan I'd just pull the plug. Random Mets from here on in until further notice. Rockin' Doc Apr 20 2009 07:39 PM Bang! Pow! Cliff Floyd is one of my all-time favorite Mets. Nice to see him making an appearance around the 'pool once again. Edgy DC Apr 20 2009 08:19 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 20 2009 10:35 PM The Crane Pool Forum has appreciated their relationship over the years with the Ramones, but after recent meetings with Marky, Tommy, and CJ, all agreed that it was best for both parties to go in seperate directions. We wish the Ramones well and hope for opportunities to work together in the future. In the meantime, the Crane Pool Forum is very excited about the new era of linking our introduction statement to our banner, to help people understand who exactly we're looking at. In an age of names which honor corporate relationships trumping names that are meaningful to the fan's and the city's relationship with the team, we feel confident in making a countercultural choice, and hope the fans will be excited to see us zag as other fora continue to zig. Frayed Knot Apr 20 2009 09:14 PM ]Started with D.J. Dozier over the weekend, no one noticed. I did. Elster88 Apr 20 2009 11:43 PM I noticed. I like it. Met Hunter Apr 21 2009 10:00 AM I like to try guessing. I recognized DJ before I saw the name. Now I will just guess without looking to the right. Edgy DC Apr 21 2009 11:34 AM That looks like the photo that produced the BANG! POW! image, but that one had him in the orange jersey. G-Fafif Apr 21 2009 12:04 PM Love the Player ID program. Great touch. The Ramones can go their own way. Or is that Fleetwood Mac? Fman99 Apr 21 2009 12:16 PM ="Elster88":wx56um7b]I noticed. I like it.[/quote:wx56um7b] Ditto. I didn't notice it with Dozier but I did today with Floyd. Even better for us younger sorts, who don't instantly recognize the 1960s-1970s era Mets just by head shots. SteveJRogers Apr 22 2009 06:09 PM Give it up for David Wright's agent! Met Hunter Apr 22 2009 06:59 PM Man, I can still remember when Keith was that thin. Elster88 Apr 28 2009 10:04 PM Looks like the banner has "click here" instead of the player's name. Is that intentional? Kong76 Apr 29 2009 04:24 PM I never know if Elster is serious. But, if you click on "click here" it will bring you to the UMDB page of the player pictured. I figured when I was putting the name some people were disappointed because they liked to guess so click here fixes that. Farmer Ted May 04 2009 03:04 PM I like it. I like it a lot. metsmarathon May 04 2009 03:22 PM ]Intelligent, lively, and provocative discussion of the Mets, Ed Kranepool, and, when we're gettin' on a roll, this guy! Kong76 May 04 2009 04:43 PM Thanks, that flows better. batmagadanleadoff May 05 2009 04:22 PM Thurman Munson? Rockin' Doc May 05 2009 06:05 PM Damn, I never knew Gorman Thomas played for the Mets. G-Fafif May 09 2009 07:05 AM Bill Denehy's all right, but I really love that view beyond the 358 sign. metirish May 11 2009 01:16 PM I liked Rick White.....was it Kiner or Healy that would always mess his name up? I remember Rick being big for us in 2000 , always seemed to be in trouble though. Fman99 May 11 2009 02:17 PM ="metirish":1aprm4tv]I liked Rick White.....was it Kiner or Healy that would always mess his name up? I remember Rick being big for us in 2000 , always seemed to be in trouble though.[/quote:1aprm4tv] I attended the game[/url:1aprm4tv] that he debuted as a Met in, in 2000, that was also Mike (A-)Bordick's debut game in which he homered. Rick picked up the win in relief of Rick Reed that day. seawolf17 May 11 2009 06:47 PM ="metirish":2d0fy8i4]I liked Rick White.....was it Kiner or Healy that would always mess his name up? I remember Rick being big for us in 2000 , always seemed to be in trouble though.[/quote:2d0fy8i4] You mean "Rick Wheat"? G-Fafif May 11 2009 09:23 PM It was Fran: "Shea will be ricking for Rock White!" I have yet to miss Fran Healy. cooby May 12 2009 06:56 PM I will miss Fran Healy until my bones are dust in the wind.... Who is that now? Rockin' Doc May 12 2009 07:11 PM Robotic Danny Heep! cooby May 12 2009 07:12 PM Izzit? I remember him... Edgy DC May 13 2009 07:34 AM Looking at Heep here, I realize I have a mostly irrational hatred of shaving down the knob at the end of the bat and wrapping one's lower hands around the shaven knob. (grumpy old man)Your hands belong above the knob.(/grumpy) (I'm also not particular to when guys have dimples hollowed out at the end of their bats. (I think Wally Backman was the first guy I noticed with such a bat, but it probably pre-dates him by at least a decade..) Benjamin Grimm May 13 2009 08:12 AM "wrapping one's hands around the shaven knob" That definitely calls for a response from Fman. metsmarathon May 13 2009 08:23 AM i would've expected the knob never to need shaving... MFS62 May 15 2009 07:51 AM I'm seeing the dreaded red x in the box instead of a picture on this morning's banner. EDIT: Never mind, the picture just found its way in there. Later metirish May 19 2009 05:31 PM Castillo looks a bit like Ortiz , yes/no? Edgy DC May 21 2009 04:20 PM Mike Cubbage and his magic leviation glasses. Swan Swan H May 21 2009 05:09 PM See the ball, hit the ball. Met Hunter May 22 2009 06:11 AM Last summer my daughter had a soccer tourney in Va Beach. The last day there, a bunch of us happened upon a Tides game in Norfolk. I noticed Cubbage sitting behind us in a Rays hat and a clipboard. He's a scout. He was so noticeable to me. Between innings we said hello and he was nice as can be. cooby Jun 04 2009 08:16 PM Is that "Sweetness" Luis Lopez? Kong76 Jun 04 2009 08:26 PM Click on the the 'this guy' link and find out each and every time the picture changes! cooby Jun 04 2009 08:28 PM Cool! I thought it still was about the Ramones Kong76 Jun 04 2009 08:34 PM She continues the friend or foe game. Benjamin Grimm Jun 05 2009 06:48 AM ="Kong76":29zavirn]Click on the the 'this guy' link and find out each and every time the picture changes![/quote:29zavirn] I love the addition of the "this guy" link. It's very helpful, since I recognize very few of the players that appeared in 1990 or after. Frayed Knot Jun 05 2009 08:13 PM It's Luis Lopez, but is it 'Super Luis Lopez Ultra'? cooby Jun 06 2009 10:30 AM ="Kong76":15bfr057]She continues the friend or foe game.[/quote:15bfr057] Now Kasey, don't take that the wrong way. It's kind of like the front door to your house. You don't notice all the squished bugs and spider webs and hand prints and stuff on it until after somebody has stopped by and suddenly you realize that you don't even really look at your front door anymore. I know you won't know what I'm talking about. Edgy DC Jun 06 2009 02:23 PM ="Frayed Knot":1q2hkxgb]It's Luis Lopez, but is it 'Super Luis Lopez Ultra'?[/quote:1q2hkxgb] I prefer Luis "Left Eye" Lopez. metirish Jun 06 2009 02:49 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":33ihq0he]="Kong76":33ihq0he]Click on the the 'this guy' link and find out each and every time the picture changes![/quote:33ihq0he] I love the addition of the "this guy" link. It's very helpful, since I recognize very few of the players that appeared in 1990 or after.[/quote:33ihq0he] Me too , never noticed it before. Kong76 Jun 06 2009 03:35 PM coo: I know you won't know what I'm talking about <<< I don't even know what I'm talking about some days. Hopefully if there are more people who didn't realize that was a link, they will read this thread and utilize it. cooby Jun 07 2009 11:12 AM What i kinda meant was you can look at your own front door over and over again and not really see it cooby Jun 14 2009 09:23 AM at last! Kong76 Jun 27 2009 07:02 AM I guess the joke's on me! I posted an invitation on the "this guy" up top (to see if anyone really clicks there) and see if I got any bites. I get one PM from the coobster that his name is Julio and eats iguannas which is where I my brain was going with it but I didn't remember he spent time in the clink for murder?? ---------- Wikipedia: Julio Machado, born Julio Segundo Machado Rond�n (December 1, 1965 in Zulia State, Venezuela) is a former Major League Baseball right-handed relief pitcher who played for the New York Mets (1989-90) and Milwaukee Brewers (1990-91). Machado started his career with the Mets. In the 1990 season, he went to the Brewers in a four-player deal, along with pitcher Kevin Brown, in exchange for catcher Charlie O'Brien and a minor league player. Machado had a decent fastball, good control and willingness to challenge hitters. He also pitched a better-than-average curveball and a slider. Machado was certainly good enough to pitch for a few more years. However, he is a footnote in the ledger of baseball history. Spending the 1991 off-season in his homeland, Machado was arrested for murder being accused of shooting a woman following an auto accident. He was convicted and, following appeals, he was sentenced to 12 years in 1996. In a three-year career, Machado posted a 7-5 record with 151 strikeouts and a 3.12 ERA in 147 innings. Machado went on to play in the Venezuelan winter league and currently coaches in that league. Machado was nicknamed "Iguanaman" for his fondness of eating the meat of iguanas. ---------- Next time our paths cross, coobs ... I owe you a beer! Edgy DC Jun 27 2009 01:08 PM I conflate Julio Machado and Jose Bautista. Benjamin Grimm Jun 27 2009 01:10 PM My newest conflation is Elmer Dessens and Casey Fossum. seawolf17 Jun 27 2009 05:39 PM I loved Julio Machado. Unquestionably in the bullpen of my All-Time Mets 25-Man Roster. Frayed Knot Jul 15 2009 05:32 PM That's either Roy McMillan or Harry Truman

Actually, it's Richard Pryor.

soupcan: If an infielder can throw his whole body into the stands to make a catch that is then recorded as an out I would say that an outfielder can jump over a wall to catch a flyball. OUT! I say this as well.

Wow. This is the finals for me. I honestly don't know.

="Edgy DC":2rt05iss]Trammell=RainesRipkenHenderson[/quote:2rt05iss] Yes, that's about right. Growing up, though, if you told me that guys like Jim Rice and Dale Murphy and Tim Raines would be "borderline" Hall of Famers, I'd have kicked you in the nuts and told you that you were from outer space. Those guys were lock HoFers back in the day. It's still stunning to me now that they don't get any support. Benjamin Grimm Dec 02 2008 10:49 AM I think Dale Murphy's career faded too soon, which is what hurts his candidacy. Frayed Knot Dec 02 2008 10:54 AM Murphy falls in with Mattingly in my mind -- a half-dozen or so HoF years followed by a longer stretch of mediocrity which killed their chances. Both are guys who you'd say were headed there during their careers but the problem with that kind of thinking is that it often assumes that same level of production (or gradual decline) for the next number of years. Raines wasn't as extreme as those two but the second half of his career wasn't as good as his first either. I thought he was better than Rickey early on (possbily a result of NL bias) but Rickey was eventually better and kept up his elite play much longer. With active players I like to resort to the 'Hit by a train' standard. That's the one where you decide it they'd be in if they never played again and it's a rare player who meets that standard before reaching their mid-30s. ARod is the youngest active player who meets that level and before him was probably Griffey. 2 or 3 more seasons from Pujols and he'll qualify. Vic Sage Dec 02 2008 11:13 AM i'm a definite [u:2et6bhtk]yes [/u:2et6bhtk]on Henderson and Blyleven, and i could go either way on Rice, Raines and Trammell. No others need apply. metsmarathon Dec 02 2008 11:30 AM and so, here's a bit more intelligible way of looking at what i had said previously... Player Career 5-yr peak 7-yr Peak 10-yr Plateau 1-yr Max henderson TOP 2nd 2nd 2nd TOP blyleven TOP 2nd 2nd 3rd 2nd trammell 3rd 2nd 2nd 2nd 2nd raines 2nd 2nd 2nd 2nd bottom cone 3rd 3rd 3rd 3rd 3rd mcgwire 3rd 3rd bottom 3rd 3rd mattingly bottom 3rd bottom bottom 3rd murphy bottom bottom bottom bottom 3rd dawson 3rd bottom bottom bottom bottom john 2nd out out out out morris bottom bottom bottom 3rd out rice bottom bottom bottom bottom bottom baines bottom bottom bottom bottom bottom grace bottom bottom bottom bottom bottom bell bottom bottom bottom bottom bottom williams bottom bottom bottom bottom bottom parker bottom bottom bottom out bottom smith bottom bottom bottom bottom out vaughn out bottom bottom out bottom gant out out out out bottom vaughn out out out out bottom orosco bottom out out out out plesac out out out out out Nymr83 Dec 02 2008 03:09 PM ="Vic Sage":3va03oxw]i'm a definite [u:3va03oxw]yes [/u:3va03oxw]on Henderson and Blyleven, and i could go either way on Rice, Raines and Trammell. No others need apply.[/quote:3va03oxw] It was my (jewish) New Year's resolution to agree with Vic just once this year. Frayed Knot Dec 02 2008 03:15 PM Dave Parker is another not-good-enough from the Murphy/Mattingly category. First 5 full seasons were all great, HoF-quality years. At that point he was 28 y/o. After that he had one great season amid a bunch of good/OK ones in a career that lasted until he was 40. Parker also became the poster boy for every fan's fear of the player who got the (then new) big long-term contract and got fat (figuratively AND literally) and lazy soon afterward. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 02 2008 03:22 PM He was never the same after he got baseball and hockey all confused. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 02 2008 03:23 PM and football Edgy DC Dec 02 2008 04:53 PM Teach you to mess with Stoins. Frayed Knot Dec 03 2008 05:49 AM The HoF candidacy of Tim Raines gets some love[/url:2i8b3myn] in comparisons with not only sure-fire HoFer Rickey but also with possible one Rice & current member Brock in a piece from 'The Hardball Times' Vic Sage Dec 03 2008 08:12 AM ="Nymr83":1lrgong9]="Vic Sage":1lrgong9]i'm a definite [u:1lrgong9]yes [/u:1lrgong9]on Henderson and Blyleven, and i could go either way on Rice, Raines and Trammell. No others need apply.[/quote:1lrgong9] It was my (jewish) New Year's resolution to agree with Vic just once this year.[/quote:1lrgong9] even a broken clock is right twice a day. Nymr83 Dec 03 2008 01:44 PM They anounced the Veteran's Committee ballot today, i fear they will place the undeserving (like Ron Santo) in the hall while ignoring the best hitter not in the hall (Dick Allen.) metsmarathon Dec 03 2008 02:00 PM Player Career 5-yr peak 7-yr Peak 10-yr Plateau 1-yr Max santo 3rd TOP TOP 2nd TOP allen bottom 2nd 3rd 3rd 2nd using my methodology, ron santo is probably the best player not in the hall. Nymr83 Dec 03 2008 02:07 PM Allen has a 156 OPS+ over 15 years, that should be automatic inclusion. Valadius Dec 03 2008 04:29 PM Santo and Allen both deserve it. seawolf17 Dec 03 2008 07:34 PM ="Nymr83":1g5y35ta]Allen has a 156 OPS+ over 15 years, that should be automatic inclusion.[/quote:1g5y35ta] Hey! We agree! Edgy DC Dec 03 2008 08:12 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 06 2008 07:39 AM I don't think there's such a thing as an automatic anything. Bill James pretty much says he jerked his way out of the Hall of Fame and seems to agree, or at least acknowledge where the writers were coming from. You don't have to agree, but I think declaring anything to be a no-brainer is intellectually lazy. The time for thinkers has come. Frayed Knot Dec 06 2008 07:20 AM More Raines love A rather lengthy treatise on why Tim Raines belongs, comparing him as a leadoff hitter to other leadoffs already in or likely headed for the HoF and reaching concluions like; Take a big part of Rickey Henderson and Pete Rose, add a good size part of Lou Brock, Paul Molitor, and Craig Biggio, and stir in some Ichiro Suzuki, Wade Boggs, Joe Morgan, Derek Jeter, and Barry Bonds, and you get a composite that is a shade inferior to Tim Raines. ... and then doing the same with Raines as #3 hitter, and then again as an overall career. I'm convinced. Edgy DC Dec 06 2008 07:44 AM We tend to say we're offended by the use of magic number thresholds reached in compiling career totals, but isn't the failure to reach 3,000 hits the main case against Raines? And couldn't he have pulled it of pretty easily if he (1) walked a little less, or (2) spent his disease-diminished twilight hitting full-time at league average for a lesser team rather than hitting part-time above league average for contenders? Valadius Dec 06 2008 09:21 PM You can't blame a guy for wanting to win championships. Frayed Knot Jan 05 2009 09:16 AM Results revealed a week from today. Meanwhile, Newsday's Ken Davidoff[/url:fmb4ds8p] reveals not only his ballot but his reasoning behind each vote while showing a willingness to change his mind and adapt to changing thinking. Plus I think I agree with him on all his choices (and non-choices). Nymr83 Jan 05 2009 09:39 AM ="Frayed Knot":3l2ojh0o]Results revealed a week from today. Meanwhile, Newsday's Ken Davidoff[/url:3l2ojh0o] reveals not only his ballot but his reasoning behind each vote while showing a willingness to change his mind and adapt to changing thinking. Plus I think I agree with him on all his choices (and non-choices).[/quote:3l2ojh0o] "The statistics stand the test of time. Our memories are not as reliable." That should be rule #1 of HOF voting. metirish Jan 05 2009 09:45 AM That's some good stuff there form Davidoff . I like his honesty and that he can change from year to year.

="Nymr83":3i4wxh5d]he wasn't just a "better walker", his batting average was 10 points higher, insignificant over 1 year but hardly so over a career. counting HR/2B/3B seperately is kinda of silly, because whether you hit a triple and a single or two doubles its all the same. compare their OBPs and their SLG%, thats really all you need to look at to understand all those numbers. Baines had an OBP 33 points higher, that is VERY significant, and its not a knock on him to say he did it via the walk. Take away walks and Rickey Henderson looks like he's not as good as Dawson either, while in fact Henderson was far superior, because walks really matter.[/quote:3i4wxh5d] I'm not knocking him for walking -- he walked twice as much as Dawson did, and that's obviously significant. My point is that there's no other facet of Baines game -- NONE -- that makes him better than Dawson, and that the other things -- speed, power, defensive ability -- far outweigh the ability to draw more walks. He simply was not the player that Dawson was, overall. I don't even think Baines could ever have been considered the best player on his own team at any point; that would have gone to Carlton Fisk back in the early 80s, and after the early 80s, he was a role player. During his best seasons, he didn't carry his team. 1996 he supported Robin Ventura and Frank Thomas, in 1999 he played fourth fiddle to Albert Belle, BJ Surhoff, and an aging but still effective Cal Ripken, although he did do enough to make the All-Star team that year... for the first time since 1991. Dawson, meanwhile, had two dominant stretches. The first was 1977-1983, when he won a ROY, finished in the top 25 in MVP voting five times, and ripped the crap out of National League pitching. He fell apart at the end in Montreal, then was rejuvenated in Chicago in 1987, ripping off another six-season run until his body finally started giving out again. Benjamin Grimm Dec 02 2008 09:41 AM I thought Baines would end up being the first 3,000-hit guy to miss the Hall of Fame (other than Pete Rose, of course) but he fell short by just over 100 hits. metsmarathon Dec 02 2008 09:50 AM per my methodology of using WARP3 and comparing those on the ballot to those who've already been voted in by the bbwaa... i look at career and peak value over 5, 7, and 10 year spans. i also take a look at a player's best individual season, just for kicks. rickey henderson is an above average hall of famer in terms of his peak value for 5, 7, and 10 years, and is in the top quarter in terms of career value and single season. tim raines is an above average hall of vfamer by all of these measures save single season maximum, wherein he is below average. alan trammel is an above average hall of famer by all of these measures save career value, wherein he is below average. these are the hitters who would receive my vote, and in the above order (not that that matters) no other candidate hitter on the ballot ranks among the top half of the existing hall of famers by these measures. among the other hitters, mark mcgwire is below average for a hall of famer in each measure save 7-year peak value, wherein he is in the bottom quarter. don mattingly is below average in only 5 year peak and single season maximum value. by all other measures he is in the bottom quarter. andre dawson is a below average hofer in only career value. by all other measures he is in the bottom quarter. dale murphy and jay bell are below average hofer in only single season maximum value. by all other measures they are in the bottom quarter. jim rice, harold baines, mark grace, and matt williams are in the bottom quarter of hall of famers by all measures. dave parker is in the bottom quarter of hall of famers by all measures save 10-year peak vaule, wherein his value is lower than that of any hall of famer voted in by the bbwaa. mo vaughn's career value and 10-year peak value fall short of ony elected hall of famer. ron gant and greg vaughn fall short of any hall of famer by all emasures save single season maximum value, wherin they are in the bottom quarter. ... among pitchers, bert blyleven ranks in the top quarter of hofers in terms of career value, and is above average in terms of 5-yr peak, 7-yr peak and single season maximum value, but is below average in terms of 10-year peak value. he is the only pitcher who i would vote for. only tommy john ranks as above average in any category. he is above average in terms of career value. however, in terms of all three peak values and single season maximum value, he falls short of any elected hall of famer. by all measures, david cone ranks as a below average hall of famer. he is the strongest candidate whom i would not vote for. jack morris ranks in the bottom quarter of hall of famers in all categories save 10 year peak, in which he is below average. lee smith is in the bottom quarter of hall of famers in all categories save single season maximum value, wherein he falls short of any elected hofer. jesse orosco falls short of any elected hofer in all categories save career value. dan plesac falls short of any elected hofer by all measures. the only other comparison worth making would be lee smith versus elected relievers - a subset that includes, i think, only sutter, gossage, and eckersley. bruce sutter is among the weakest hall of famers elected. he has the lowest career value, and the lowest 7-year peak value. he has the second lowest 10-year peak and the third lowest 5-year peak. he also has the 5th lowest single season maximum value. goose gossage is in teh bottom quarter in terms of career value and 5-year peak, and ranks as below average in 7-year peak, 10-year peak, and single season maximum. dennis eckersley is in teh bottom quarter in all measures save career value, wherein he ranks as above average. lee smith has a higher career value than bruce sutter, but falls short of gossage. his 5-year max is just higher than sutters, but falls well short of gossage and eckersley. his 7-year peak is just higher than sutter, but well short of eckersley. his 10-year peak value is greater than sutter, and actually greater than eckersley, but well short of gossage. his single season maximum falls well short of sutter. he also did not, to my knowledge, usher in the use of any new, fancy pitch. relievers are very difficult to argue for relative to other pitchers, as eck, sutter, and gossage, based on their overall values, are all among the weaker elected hall of famers. the bar should be set fairly high for them. and lee smith does not clear that bar. oe: this might all be unreadble. maybe i'll make a table after lunch Edgy DC Dec 02 2008 09:53 AM I like Trammell's candidacy. I should add him in. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 02 2008 10:13 AM I think its unfortunate for Raines to have played at the same time as Henderson who is as inner-circle a HOFer as we might see in our lifetimes. Like Henderson Raines was an excellent walker and dynamite base-stealer. He hit for a high average and hardly ever struck out. I also think he's easy to overlook having come up with Montreal then systematically having been screwed by collusion which prolly diminished his brand image where a similar free agent can use their moment of free agency to enhance it. So, I'll throw a vote to Raines along with Rickey. I forget where I stand in relation to Blyleven. I'm pretty sure I suppoort him. I like Trammell too. Edgy DC Dec 02 2008 10:21 AM Trammell=RainesRipkenHenderson seawolf17 Dec 02 2008 10:36 AM ="Edgy DC":2rt05iss]Trammell=RainesRipkenHenderson[/quote:2rt05iss] Yes, that's about right. Growing up, though, if you told me that guys like Jim Rice and Dale Murphy and Tim Raines would be "borderline" Hall of Famers, I'd have kicked you in the nuts and told you that you were from outer space. Those guys were lock HoFers back in the day. It's still stunning to me now that they don't get any support. Benjamin Grimm Dec 02 2008 10:49 AM I think Dale Murphy's career faded too soon, which is what hurts his candidacy. Frayed Knot Dec 02 2008 10:54 AM Murphy falls in with Mattingly in my mind -- a half-dozen or so HoF years followed by a longer stretch of mediocrity which killed their chances. Both are guys who you'd say were headed there during their careers but the problem with that kind of thinking is that it often assumes that same level of production (or gradual decline) for the next number of years. Raines wasn't as extreme as those two but the second half of his career wasn't as good as his first either. I thought he was better than Rickey early on (possbily a result of NL bias) but Rickey was eventually better and kept up his elite play much longer. With active players I like to resort to the 'Hit by a train' standard. That's the one where you decide it they'd be in if they never played again and it's a rare player who meets that standard before reaching their mid-30s. ARod is the youngest active player who meets that level and before him was probably Griffey. 2 or 3 more seasons from Pujols and he'll qualify. Vic Sage Dec 02 2008 11:13 AM i'm a definite [u:2et6bhtk]yes [/u:2et6bhtk]on Henderson and Blyleven, and i could go either way on Rice, Raines and Trammell. No others need apply. metsmarathon Dec 02 2008 11:30 AM and so, here's a bit more intelligible way of looking at what i had said previously... Player Career 5-yr peak 7-yr Peak 10-yr Plateau 1-yr Max henderson TOP 2nd 2nd 2nd TOP blyleven TOP 2nd 2nd 3rd 2nd trammell 3rd 2nd 2nd 2nd 2nd raines 2nd 2nd 2nd 2nd bottom cone 3rd 3rd 3rd 3rd 3rd mcgwire 3rd 3rd bottom 3rd 3rd mattingly bottom 3rd bottom bottom 3rd murphy bottom bottom bottom bottom 3rd dawson 3rd bottom bottom bottom bottom john 2nd out out out out morris bottom bottom bottom 3rd out rice bottom bottom bottom bottom bottom baines bottom bottom bottom bottom bottom grace bottom bottom bottom bottom bottom bell bottom bottom bottom bottom bottom williams bottom bottom bottom bottom bottom parker bottom bottom bottom out bottom smith bottom bottom bottom bottom out vaughn out bottom bottom out bottom gant out out out out bottom vaughn out out out out bottom orosco bottom out out out out plesac out out out out out Nymr83 Dec 02 2008 03:09 PM ="Vic Sage":3va03oxw]i'm a definite [u:3va03oxw]yes [/u:3va03oxw]on Henderson and Blyleven, and i could go either way on Rice, Raines and Trammell. No others need apply.[/quote:3va03oxw] It was my (jewish) New Year's resolution to agree with Vic just once this year. Frayed Knot Dec 02 2008 03:15 PM Dave Parker is another not-good-enough from the Murphy/Mattingly category. First 5 full seasons were all great, HoF-quality years. At that point he was 28 y/o. After that he had one great season amid a bunch of good/OK ones in a career that lasted until he was 40. Parker also became the poster boy for every fan's fear of the player who got the (then new) big long-term contract and got fat (figuratively AND literally) and lazy soon afterward. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 02 2008 03:22 PM He was never the same after he got baseball and hockey all confused. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 02 2008 03:23 PM and football Edgy DC Dec 02 2008 04:53 PM Teach you to mess with Stoins. Frayed Knot Dec 03 2008 05:49 AM The HoF candidacy of Tim Raines gets some love[/url:2i8b3myn] in comparisons with not only sure-fire HoFer Rickey but also with possible one Rice & current member Brock in a piece from 'The Hardball Times' Vic Sage Dec 03 2008 08:12 AM ="Nymr83":1lrgong9]="Vic Sage":1lrgong9]i'm a definite [u:1lrgong9]yes [/u:1lrgong9]on Henderson and Blyleven, and i could go either way on Rice, Raines and Trammell. No others need apply.[/quote:1lrgong9] It was my (jewish) New Year's resolution to agree with Vic just once this year.[/quote:1lrgong9] even a broken clock is right twice a day. Nymr83 Dec 03 2008 01:44 PM They anounced the Veteran's Committee ballot today, i fear they will place the undeserving (like Ron Santo) in the hall while ignoring the best hitter not in the hall (Dick Allen.) metsmarathon Dec 03 2008 02:00 PM Player Career 5-yr peak 7-yr Peak 10-yr Plateau 1-yr Max santo 3rd TOP TOP 2nd TOP allen bottom 2nd 3rd 3rd 2nd using my methodology, ron santo is probably the best player not in the hall. Nymr83 Dec 03 2008 02:07 PM Allen has a 156 OPS+ over 15 years, that should be automatic inclusion. Valadius Dec 03 2008 04:29 PM Santo and Allen both deserve it. seawolf17 Dec 03 2008 07:34 PM ="Nymr83":1g5y35ta]Allen has a 156 OPS+ over 15 years, that should be automatic inclusion.[/quote:1g5y35ta] Hey! We agree! Edgy DC Dec 03 2008 08:12 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 06 2008 07:39 AM I don't think there's such a thing as an automatic anything. Bill James pretty much says he jerked his way out of the Hall of Fame and seems to agree, or at least acknowledge where the writers were coming from. You don't have to agree, but I think declaring anything to be a no-brainer is intellectually lazy. The time for thinkers has come. Frayed Knot Dec 06 2008 07:20 AM More Raines love A rather lengthy treatise on why Tim Raines belongs, comparing him as a leadoff hitter to other leadoffs already in or likely headed for the HoF and reaching concluions like; Take a big part of Rickey Henderson and Pete Rose, add a good size part of Lou Brock, Paul Molitor, and Craig Biggio, and stir in some Ichiro Suzuki, Wade Boggs, Joe Morgan, Derek Jeter, and Barry Bonds, and you get a composite that is a shade inferior to Tim Raines. ... and then doing the same with Raines as #3 hitter, and then again as an overall career. I'm convinced. Edgy DC Dec 06 2008 07:44 AM We tend to say we're offended by the use of magic number thresholds reached in compiling career totals, but isn't the failure to reach 3,000 hits the main case against Raines? And couldn't he have pulled it of pretty easily if he (1) walked a little less, or (2) spent his disease-diminished twilight hitting full-time at league average for a lesser team rather than hitting part-time above league average for contenders? Valadius Dec 06 2008 09:21 PM You can't blame a guy for wanting to win championships. Frayed Knot Jan 05 2009 09:16 AM Results revealed a week from today. Meanwhile, Newsday's Ken Davidoff[/url:fmb4ds8p] reveals not only his ballot but his reasoning behind each vote while showing a willingness to change his mind and adapt to changing thinking. Plus I think I agree with him on all his choices (and non-choices). Nymr83 Jan 05 2009 09:39 AM ="Frayed Knot":3l2ojh0o]Results revealed a week from today. Meanwhile, Newsday's Ken Davidoff[/url:3l2ojh0o] reveals not only his ballot but his reasoning behind each vote while showing a willingness to change his mind and adapt to changing thinking. Plus I think I agree with him on all his choices (and non-choices).[/quote:3l2ojh0o] "The statistics stand the test of time. Our memories are not as reliable." That should be rule #1 of HOF voting. metirish Jan 05 2009 09:45 AM That's some good stuff there form Davidoff . I like his honesty and that he can change from year to year.

I was exaggerating.

="duan":3gjg99s0]ok free agents who just go more attractive to the mets cause they won't cost a first round pick (remember though, if we sign ONE type A free agent who was offered arbitration we lose the first round pick, so if we're signing one we might as well sign plenty as the value on the subsequent picks is substantially lower). Bobby Abreu (the yankees scared of him accepting and getting $16 million) Kerry Wood Pat Burrell Adam Dunn Jamie Moyer Trevor Hoffman[/quote:3gjg99s0] Hell, I'd sign all six of those guys and trade Delgado for a bag of balls. edit: I guess we don't need both closers, unless Hoffman's willing to set up. Edgy DC Dec 02 2008 08:32 AM I want more than the bag. Benjamin Grimm Dec 02 2008 08:54 AM Yeah, really. Are we already back to saying Delgado is worthless, just because he hasn't homered in two months? seawolf17 Dec 02 2008 09:11 AM I was exaggerating. Nymr83 Dec 02 2008 09:36 AM If the Mets signed Dunn to play 1B I wouldn't care what they got for Delgado (I'd assume they'd have to move his contract before they be willing to commit $$ to Dunn.) Otherwise I have no problem with Delgado returning, he earned it despite everything I (and others) said about him early in the year. Gwreck Dec 02 2008 11:27 AM ="Frayed Knot":2s8gnkll]NYers (and others) have to get over this, particularly since it was the best (non) move of the decade for us.[/quote:2s8gnkll] Because of Wright and Heilman, or because Hampton bombed out in Colorado? Edgy DC Dec 02 2008 11:30 AM You don't have to choose. Throw in also that Hampton's failures and injuries came at a very dear price. Gwreck Dec 02 2008 11:43 AM Avoiding Hampton's failures and injuries certainly turned out well but I don't think it can be said with any certainty that those same failures (or even injuries) would have happened had he remained with the Mets. As for Wright and Heilman -- given that those two draft picks are the most successful the Mets have had in the past 15 (25?) years, I think it's safe to say that the two Hampton-compensation picks turned out so well was mostly a function of luck. Edgy DC Dec 02 2008 11:52 AM ="Gwreck":3mh1lucm]As for Wright and Heilman -- given that those two draft picks are the most successful the Mets have had in the past 15 (25?) years, I think it's safe to say that the two Hampton-compensation picks turned out so well was mostly a function of luck.[/quote:3mh1lucm] Preston Wilson? Jason Isringhausen? Scott Bloody Kazmir? These guys haven't outpaced Aaron Heilman? Really, whether you consider the actual outcome or the average of all the hosts of possible outcomes, the Mets made the right move there every time. Frayed Knot Dec 02 2008 12:13 PM ="Gwreck"]Avoiding Hampton's failures and injuries certainly turned out well but I don't think it can be said with any certainty that those same failures (or even injuries) would have happened had he remained with the Mets. Certainly couldn't have been predicted his troubles to the degree that they occured; Hampton was still young, athletic and without any kind of unreasonable injury history. But he was also a guy with only 2 or 3 good years getting a lengthy contract at superstar money during a bubble market all of which made it an almost impossible standard to live up to. One of the best lessons from 'Moneyball' was that it's usually easier to recover from the player you fail to sign than it is to recover from the one you sign at the wrong price. ]As for Wright and Heilman -- given that those two draft picks are the most successful the Mets have had in the past 15 (25?) years, I think it's safe to say that the two Hampton-compensation picks turned out so well was mostly a function of luck. I was strictly thinking about not being stuck with his contract when I talked about 'best non-move' even though that part involved more "luck" than the picks IMO. Even though high picks are no guarantee, the more good ones you have the better your chances and eventually you'll find gold under one of those rocks you overturn. Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 07:25 AM Joel Shoiman sez: 1) Mets "officials" are denying a hot rumor about a blockbuster deal bringing both Bobby Jenks and Jermaine Dye from the White Sox, with Fernando Martinez going to Chicago. He describes Martinez as "all but untouchable." I think he's about as untouchable as Lastings Milledge, that is, he's untouchable up until the point where describing him as untouchable won't increase his value. Newsday pretty much sums it up the same way. 2) Mets like Putz as much as if not more than Rodriguez or Fuentes, but other teams want a little Putz of their own. 3) They won't go over three years guaranteed for either of the big ticket closers. (Nothing new there, I think.) 4) They're willing to go for Kerry Wood for two years (first I heard about Wood). 5) They turned away Tampa who tried to deal them Chad Bradford, because, like Tampa, they don't want to pay a ROOGy $3.5 mils. Benjamin Grimm Dec 04 2008 08:00 AM That Jenks/Dye for Fernando Martinez deal, if there's any truth to it, must involve additional players from the Mets, right? If it's a straight two-for-one I can't see the Mets not doing it. metirish Dec 04 2008 08:07 AM Omar would be a putz to do that deal. Gwreck Dec 04 2008 08:23 AM ="Edgy DC":1qe4vw0z]5) They turned away Tampa who tried to deal them Chad Bradford, because, like Tampa, they don't want to pay a ROOGy $3.5 mils.[/quote:1qe4vw0z] In 2009, Bradford would be in year 3 of that contract (the 3 year deal that the Mets refused to give him but gave to Schoeneweis). I'd have to believe that not getting Bradford would be more of a function of his potential role already filled by Joe Smith than just a few million bucks. Gwreck Dec 04 2008 08:34 AM ="Edgy DC":1kf4rwd2]Preston Wilson? Jason Isringhausen? Scott Bloody Kazmir?[/quote:1kf4rwd2] All of their success was elsewhere, but I suppose that doesn't really matter when evaluating the quality of the pick. Those ones weren't too bad. HahnSolo Dec 04 2008 10:20 AM Boston Globe reporting that the Phillies have made an offer to Derek Lowe. No details of the offer, but apparently another team has also made an offer. [url:27icv0p0]http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/12/04/teams_starting_to_make_pitches/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+Red+Sox+news[/url:27icv0p0] Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 10:24 AM Lowe may be the free agent I unwant the most this offseason. metirish Dec 04 2008 10:31 AM I read today that the Giants are mulling an offer to C.C. in the $100 million plus for five years range , he is from an area close to San Francisco. smg58 Dec 04 2008 10:33 AM I see no point in dealing for a closer if the market is so glutted with options that won't cost players. Keep in mind that Putz is on the wrong side of 30 and coming off a significant injury and an off year. Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 10:37 AM I hear you. But, as a trade-hater myself, I'm sure the Mets see the advantages of dealing as (a) not giving up draft picks, ( getting a guy at yesterday's salary rather than tomorrow's, and (c) getting a guy who is closer to the expiration of his deal, protecting them from having to pay for nothing in year four, like they are with Wagner. metirish Dec 04 2008 10:39 AM Numbers from Newsday regarding Fernando Martinez ] Martinez, who turned 20 in October, is looking impressive again in the Dominican Winter League after another injury-plagued season at Double-A Binghamton. Martinez was batting .323 with four home runs, 19 RBIs and a .382 on-base percentage in 28 games for Leones del Escogido. Compared with his .282 average for the B-Mets, along with eight homers in 86 games, Martinez appears ready for a breakthrough season DocTee Dec 04 2008 02:04 PM SF finally gets their man: Edgar Renteria, 2 years, $18.5 million Busy off-season for the G-men: Renteria, Howry and Affeldt and now, apparently, maybe Sabathia Frayed Knot Dec 04 2008 02:23 PM House-cleaning Pads deal rapidly-declining Khalil Green to the Cards Russel Branyan signs with Seattle John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 04 2008 02:27 PM Jack Wilson reportedly traded to Detroit Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 02:28 PM Tough couple of minutes for talented but enigmatic white shortstops. smg58 Dec 04 2008 02:28 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 04 2008 02:29 PM You can't fault the Giants for being aggressive when everybody else is cautious. Affeldt is a very nice pickup for two years. Howry I'm not so sure about; they already have a deeper pen than people realize, and Sergio Romo is a guy to watch. (PS I wonder what the Giants would want for Romo.) As for Renteria, it depends on which version shows up. But even the 2008 version is an upgrade at the position, so they don't have a whole lot to lose. I certainly wouldn't fault them for going after Sabathia, either. You get the sense he's waiting for somebody to at least try and compete with the Yankees. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 04 2008 02:29 PM You're really into Jack Wilson, aren't you. metirish Dec 04 2008 02:29 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":30uw5ppo]Jack Wilson reportedly traded to Detroit[/quote:30uw5ppo] Don't go posting "Jackie Wilson Said " now. Valadius Dec 04 2008 02:49 PM Jack Wilson is the single ugliest player in professional baseball. soupcan Dec 04 2008 02:58 PM 'What you talkin' 'bout, Vlad?' Valadius Dec 04 2008 03:59 PM seawolf17 Dec 04 2008 05:15 PM Currently, yes. All-time, he's not even in the Top Ten. Nymr83 Dec 04 2008 05:30 PM Aren't you forgetting someone? Edgy DC Dec 04 2008 05:58 PM Johnny Dickshot is the only guy in the BB-r.com database with the nickname "Ugly." seawolf17 Dec 04 2008 06:42 PM ="Nymr83"]Aren't you forgetting someone? Nymr83 Dec 04 2008 08:06 PM theres no need to post a second picture of the guy... metirish Dec 05 2008 06:58 AM From the Snooze ] The Braves made their first proposal to Burnett Thursday, according to sources, offering him a four-year deal worth roughly $64 million with a vesting option for a fifth year based on the number of innings pitched. The Yankees, Blue Jays and Orioles are still interested in Burnett, but the fifth-year option may be enough to put the Braves over the top. Good luck to them with that. Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2008 07:19 AM How far away are the Braves from being a contender? From what I recall of last year, they have some doin' to do before I'm going to start worrying about them. In other Hot Stove news, SNY's Mets Hot Stove Report is going to air four (count 'em, four!) live shows next week from the winter meetings. Apparently they're expecting a lot of fast-breaking news, but it's possible that this might be Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's vault all over again. Valadius Dec 05 2008 07:28 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":e413zzsl]This might be Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's vault all over again.[/quote:e413zzsl] I think I missed that one. What happened there? Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2008 07:29 AM Sometimes I forget how old I am. The Al Capone thing was from before you were born, Val. Here's Wiki's article about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Capone%27s_Vault Valadius Dec 05 2008 07:35 AM Wow. How did Geraldo Rivera maintain any credibility whatsoever after that? Not like Fox News has any credibility, but still. Edgy DC Dec 05 2008 07:37 AM "The Mystery of Al Capone's Vault was a one-time live American television special broadcast in syndication in April 1986 hosted by Geraldo Rivera." One time? Somebody's forgetting Rivera's opening of the Andrea Doria vault. soupcan Dec 05 2008 08:01 AM I remember that - all the hype about the vault. Then, the vault is opened and Geraldo's looking inside and...... There's nothing there! Too funny. Benjamin Grimm Dec 05 2008 08:07 AM I remember a quote from Geraldo, years later, that went something like, "If only there was SOMETHING in that damn vault!" I was hoping the Wiki article would include that quote, but it didn't. He had major egg on his face for quite a while after that. It was, as soupcan said, very funny. metirish Dec 06 2008 05:54 PM Olney reports that Furcal turned down a take it or leave four year deal from Oakland worth $35 million-$40 million. What market does he think is out there for him? Valadius Dec 06 2008 09:23 PM Last year's economy? seawolf17 Dec 09 2008 07:16 PM One of my favorite players on the move, as Ryan Freel and two prospects go to Baltimore for catcher Ramon Hernandez. metirish Dec 09 2008 07:18 PM My sources are telling me that the MFY's will better the Braves money for Burrnett and go the extra year. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 08:03 AM This, from esspin: ]Minaya: Mets interested in re-signing Pedro, plan to meet with agent The New York Mets are interested in retaining Pedro Martinez and plan to meet with the Dominican pitcher's agent, GM Omar Minaya informed ESPNdeportes.com. "We have interest in him. We're going to talk to his agent when we have the opportunity," Minaya said Tuesday, the second day of the winter meetings. Minaya said that he has not yet scheduled a formal meeting with Fernando Cuza, Martinez's agent, or Martinez. Martinez, however, said he isn't ready to start thinking about where he wants to play next season. "I've said it previously and I have said to my agents that they do not speak to me of contracts until January," Martinez said Tuesday. Martinez, 37, also likely won't decide whether to pitch for the Dominican Republic in next year's World Baseball Classic until he reaches a contract agreement with a major league team. The three-time Cy Young winner endured the worst season of his 16-year career in 2008. Martinez went 5-6 and 5.61 ERA in 20 outings and was affected by various injuries and personal problems. Why? Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 08:08 AM Because if you can get him cheap, he's a veteran pitcher you can have in the mix as a fallback if Niese isn't ready. It would be a mistake to sign him, at any price, and pencil him in to the rotation. But having him hanging out there as an option isn't a bad idea. He does have an upside; if he has a bounceback year then you really have something. But you can't count on that happening and hopefully the Mets won't. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 08:10 AM ="Benjamin Grimm"]Because if you can get him cheap, he's a veteran pitcher you can have in the mix as a fallback if Niese isn't ready. It would be a mistake to sign him, at any price, and pencil him in to the rotation. But having him hanging out there as an option isn't a bad idea. He does have an upside; if he has a bounceback year then you really have something. But you can't count on that happening and hopefully the Mets won't. If he's cheap (which I doubt) and if you could bench him if he stunk (which would be tricky), it's not a bad insurance plan. I don't think the answer to either of those ifs will work in the team's interest, though. DocTee Dec 10 2008 11:23 AM Alan Embree to Colorado, lessening their need for a LOOGY and kiboshing the proposed Heiman/Feliciano for Street swap. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 11:44 AM Well that's good for us in the sense that Omah was holding back on including Feliciano in the first place. Now he can throw in Duaner Sanchez instead and call it a dealeeeo. Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 12:56 PM Rumor has it that the Mets and Dodgers are discussing Juan Pierre. (Seems to be coming from Fox Sports.) Word is that the Dodgers would have to eat a big chunk of Pierre's contract in order to move him. The Mets have a guy like that... Would the Dodgers have any use at all for Castillo? If so, then maybe the two teams could trade headaches. Frayed Knot Dec 10 2008 12:58 PM I'd rather have Castillo than Pierre sharpie Dec 10 2008 01:04 PM Agreed. I'd hate to waste an outfield spot on a speed-only guy. Valadius Dec 10 2008 01:10 PM What the hell do we need Pierre for? We have a center fielder. HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 01:10 PM Good lord, Juan Pierre and Pedro? Haven't they already met their quota of guys who suck? Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 01:14 PM Pierre is useful if Endy is already ticketed as part of another package. Other than that, he can revitatlize our long-since-interrupted Outfielders from Mobile, tradition, and maybe cancel some of the kharmic dept for trading Amos Otis. He puts the bat on the ball witout GiDPing. But he's looking a lot like a pinch-runner on the wrong side of 30. HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 01:16 PM ="Edgy DC":1vw8dz0f]Pierre is useful if Endy is already ticketed as part of another package.[/quote:1vw8dz0f] But if reports are true that the Mets don't want to venture too far over last year's payroll, I wouldn't want to add on his contract. Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 01:17 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":g0bx2ilm]Word is that the Dodgers would have to eat a big chunk of Pierre's contract in order to move him.[/quote:g0bx2ilm] HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 02:36 PM I'm still on the negative side of meh with him. Edgy DC Dec 10 2008 02:55 PM Well, you sure don't see me tossing my pom-poms in the air. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 02:58 PM Me neither. Pierre and Castillo made a nice pair on the 2002 Marlins, but that was a long time ago. Remember how they used to abuse Piazza? Almost unfair. Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2008 03:00 PM What I wonder, though, is if trading Castillo for Pierre would make the Mets more willing to spend to upgrade at second base. It doesn't really make any sense, but it's possible that they might see it that way. (They'd still be increasing the payroll, but at least they wouldn't be paying Castillo to sit on the bench. And maybe they'd get something out of Pierre. Or at least, more than they expect from Castillo.) Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 10 2008 03:40 PM Luis Castillo is a useful major leaguer who happens to be overpaid. Juan Pierre is a useless major leaguer who happens to be overpaid. Castillo is a below average second baseman who can't slug. Pierre's a terrible center fielder (or an average left fielder) who can't hit. Endy Chavez is a better player than Juan Pierre. Almost all major leaguers are better players than Juan Pierre. The one thing he can do is steal bases, and he's not very good at that. Here are his CS% numbers, per year, for his career: 01 27% 02 20% 03 24% 04 38% 05 23% 06 26% 07 19% 08 23% For is career, that's 25%, the break-even point. If he's even a little bit off his career average, he's a liability on the base paths. Pierre is exactly the kind of player you can't hand to a manager. He has a reputation as a good defender, a leadoff type hitter and, perhaps, a "winner." Managers give these kind of players way too many plate appearances and innings in the field based on reputation while the team's performance suffers. bmfc1 Dec 10 2008 07:37 PM From Ken Rosenthal, tonight: 8:46 p.m. � Mets trying to land M's Putz The Mets are working to acquire a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez � and that setup man would be another closer from the American League West. J.J. Putz could be headed to the Mets in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources. Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first-base prospect Mike Carp would be in the deal, as would Indians outfielder Franklin Gutierrez. metirish Dec 10 2008 07:38 PM Can I get a WOW? metirish Dec 10 2008 07:42 PM From KR 9:32 p.m. � Source: Tigers to aqcuire Edwin Jackson The Detroit Tigers are set to acquire right-hander Edwin Jackson from the Tampa Bay Rays for outfielder Matt Joyce, according to a major-league source. Tampa Bay, with David Price on the way, had a surplus of starting pitching. Jackson, 25, was 14-11 this year with a 4.25 ERA. In exchange the Rays get a 24-year-old, left-handed-hitting corner outfielder who hit 12 homers in 242 at-bats. -- Ed Price metirish Dec 10 2008 07:42 PM ="bmfc1":3tnm13me]From Ken Rosenthal, tonight: 8:46 p.m. � Mets trying to land M's Putz The Mets are working to acquire a setup man for new closer Francisco Rodriguez � and that setup man would be another closer from the American League West. J.J. Putz could be headed to the Mets in a three-team trade with the Mariners and Indians, according to major-league sources. Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first-base prospect Mike Carp would be in the deal, as would Indians outfielder Franklin Gutierrez.[/quote:3tnm13me] Just so this is not lost on the last page. Gwreck Dec 10 2008 07:55 PM Putz is extremely valuable but won't come cheap: $5 million for '09 and $8.6 million club option for '10 (with a $1M buyout). The other 3 players combined make less than $4 million. I think we'd miss Chavez a lot. HahnSolo Dec 10 2008 07:56 PM I'd love to know how he would feel about going from a closer to a setup guy. Would hate to bring him in only to have him griping about his role. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 10 2008 08:00 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 10 2008 08:12 PM Chavez isn't going to help us if he hits like he did last year. I love him and all. Meantime I think three guys are all you wanna surrender for a single reliever, especially one coming off a poor season like Putz (edit - poor for him). seawolf17 Dec 10 2008 08:09 PM Heilman, Chavez, Carp for Putz? Yes. Heilman, Chavez, Carp and Joe Smith for Putz? No. smg58 Dec 10 2008 08:36 PM I'd be worried about trusting workhorse innings to a guy coming off a serious injury, but when he's healthy Putz is as good a reliever as anybody. And the Mets do not appear to be giving up anybody they might miss. The Mets need a righthanded reserve outfielder more than they'd need Chavez. I'd make sure JJ gets a thorough physical, but if he passes, I'm for it. metirish Dec 11 2008 07:30 PM davidoff ] The Mets reopened trade discussions with the Cubs Thursday about acquiring Staten Island native Jason Marquis, according to SI.com. Marquis has a hefty salary -- he will earn $9.5 million this season -- but Minaya could dump Scott Schoeneweis ($3.6M) on Chicago to accomplish another one of Minaya's goals of addition by subtraction. It worked with Heilman. One thing about these meetings I find interesting is that every year various baseball types go there looking for a gig , from prominent free agents to former players, I read that Bobby Meacham is there selling himself as is Lee Mazzilli. metirish Dec 11 2008 07:57 PM Minaya on getting more offense. ] "Before I start moving my dollars to offense, I have to move my dollars to pitching," the GM said."Last year was very simple guys. We had 20 blown saves. We scored the runs." smg58 Dec 12 2008 04:49 AM ="metirish"]davidoff ] The Mets reopened trade discussions with the Cubs Thursday about acquiring Staten Island native Jason Marquis, according to SI.com. Marquis has a hefty salary -- he will earn $9.5 million this season -- but Minaya could dump Scott Schoeneweis ($3.6M) on Chicago to accomplish another one of Minaya's goals of addition by subtraction. It worked with Heilman. Marquis' ERA+ last year (99) was comparable with those of Perez (100) and Maine (101). I might try to be ambitious here, offering Anderson, Feliciano, and a second-tier prospect for Marquis and Mike Fontenot. We'd take on more money, but we'd fill two needs and keep the Cubs from revisting sending DeRosa to the Phillies if the Peavy deal gets resurrected. But Schoeneweis for Marquis would be a perfectly acceptable fallback. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 12 2008 05:07 AM I'm not that enamored with Marquis. MFY fan, you know. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 06:26 AM All this talk about Marquis and Pierre makes me think Omar loves Frenchies. bmfc1 Dec 12 2008 07:06 AM Marquis is a fine #5 pitcher, perhaps a 4, but nothing more than that. He's a SOB which might be good at stretch time. We (sadly) know that he can hit. (For what it's worth, he's also a NYker and a M.O.T.) I hope this gets done. Phillies got Ibanez which means that Burrell goes elsewhere. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 12 2008 07:33 AM ="bmfc1":2vohih50]Marquis is a fine #5 pitcher, perhaps a 4, but nothing more than that. He's a SOB which might be good at stretch time. We (sadly) know that he can hit. (For what it's worth, he's also a NYker and a M.O.T.) I hope this gets done. Phillies got Ibanez which means that Burrell goes elsewhere.[/quote:2vohih50] See now right there's a reason to not part with Shoeneweis, if you needed one. Phils are going to be even more loaded with LH hitting than last year. I think maybe the Mets go get Burrell, what do you say? He's streaky and a bit of a dumb jock but he hits, he's righty and it sticks it the Phils (he's definitely better than Ibanez). I suppose Marquis would be alright near the end of the rotation but I'd hate for them to be fighting to get their money's worth with him. Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2008 07:45 AM I don't have a problem with Marquis being a four or five pitcher; that's pretty much what the Mets are looking for anyway. It would be nice to get someone who would be number 2, and bump Maine and Pelfrey each down a slot, but that's not all that realistic. I too have been thinking about Burrell as a Met. (I've always seen him as a future Met; they tend to get guys who've hurt them, even if it's not until they've passed their prime.) If they do sign him, I suppose their five-man outfield is Beltran, Church, Burrell, Tatis, and Murphy. (Evans and Reed to Buffalo.) I'd be a little concerned with Murphy not getting enough playing time, but I imagine he'd find his spots. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 07:47 AM Ryan Howard, who Marty Noble insists was the MVP last year, went a m odest .219 / .313 / .479 // .792 vs the Mets last year. If you've got to decide which lefty to keep, consider that he didn't reach base once against Feliciano in seven plate appearances (four Ks), while Schoeneweis was perfect against him in five confrontations, with two Ks. Wait, that doesn't help at all. Um, Schoenewess came out on top in his one matchup with Ibanez last year, while Feliciano didn't see and Raul action. But that only makes them more even. Eeny, meeny, miny, mo. seawolf17 Dec 12 2008 07:56 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":11ubw6yw]I too have been thinking about Burrell as a Met. (I've always seen him as a future Met; they tend to get guys who've hurt them, even if it's not until they've passed their prime.) If they do sign him, I suppose their five-man outfield is Beltran, Church, Burrell, Tatis, and Murphy. (Evans and Reed to Buffalo.) I'd be a little concerned with Murphy not getting enough playing time, but I imagine he'd find his spots.[/quote:11ubw6yw] I'd still rather have Dunn than Burrell, but I'd take Burrell in a second. I'm concerned about Murphy getting overexposed; give him 250 ABs in a part-time role and let him earn his stripes again. MFS62 Dec 12 2008 07:59 AM Speaking of Ibanez, the Phillies just signed him to a three year, $30 million contract. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=376426 8 Too bad. I think he would have been a great pickup for the Mets. Later Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:07 AM Head, slammed through wall. Rockin' Doc Dec 12 2008 08:28 AM If the Mets could pick up Pat Burrell for reasonable termsd, I would be okay with that. The Mets need a corner outfielder and some right handed power to help balance the line up. Burrell would accomplish both. Murphy could still get reps as the fourth outfielder, possible spot starter at second base and the top lefty bat off the bench. Tatis would be the top righty bat off the bench while serving as a back up in LF and the corner infield spots. The only problem I see with that plan is with Endy gone, there is no one to serve as a late inning defensive substitute in LF unless Jeremy fills that role. That, however would be too many outfielders and someone (likely Murphy or Reed) would have to go elsewhere (Buffalo). Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:32 AM Marlon, I think, is not long for this town. Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2008 08:33 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2d4wl6of]If the Mets could pick up Pat Burrell for reasonable termsd, I would be okay with that. The Mets need a corner outfielder and some right handed power to help balance the line up. Burrell would accomplish both. Murphy could still get reps as the fourth outfielder, possible spot starter at second base and the top lefty bat off the bench. Tatis would be the top righty bat off the bench while serving as a back up in LF and the corner infield spots. The only problem I see with that plan is with Endy gone, there is no one to serve as a late inning defensive substitute in LF unless Jeremy fills that role. That, however would be too many outfielders and someone (likely Murphy or Reed) would have to go elsewhere (Buffalo).[/quote:2d4wl6of] Yes. Right now the fifth outfielder spot appears to be a competition between Evans and Reed. If a Burrell or Dunn were signed, the competition would be over and both of those outfielders would end up in Buffalo. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 08:37 AM Evans is going to Buffalo. Marlon is going to Arizona. The Mets have a big fat slot waiting for a big fat outfielder to fill it. MFS62 Dec 12 2008 08:44 AM ="Edgy DC":3pbxjx7s]Evans is going to Buffalo. Marlon is going to Arizona. The Mets have a big fat slot waiting for a big fat outfielder to fill it.[/quote:3pbxjx7s] Well, Dmitri Young wasn't tendered and is a free agent. He certainly fills the "big fat" parts of that slot. Later Gwreck Dec 12 2008 09:40 AM ="Edgy DC":1wn8w6gz]Head, slammed through wall.[/quote:1wn8w6gz] Rollins Ibanez Utley Howard Werth Victorino Dobbs/Feliz Ruiz Ouch. Only consolation is that it's a left-heavy lineup. Centerfield Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM Ibanez basically replaces Burrell's production. Meaning the Phils will return a very similar lineup to last year's. Mark Texiera still available. Edgy DC Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM I'm slamming my head through a wall because of the proliferation of posting without reading. smg58 Dec 12 2008 09:45 AM Evans belongs at Buffalo playing first base. With Carp gone and Delgado in his walk year, he should be getting full-time AB's at his best position. The Mets need more lefthanded pitching. Burrell might not be better than Ibanez when you factor in ballparks. But both might hurt (might have hurt, in Ibanez' case) the Mets defensively more than they'd help offensively. The Mets absolutely need another righthanded bat in the outfield, but not at a cost that's disproportionate to the benefit. sharpie Dec 12 2008 10:24 AM Ibanez is a pretty good fielder, certainly not a guy you have to take out in the late innings. TransMonk Dec 12 2008 03:13 PM Looks like the Yanks will overpay for Burnett[/url:3vyw4v5q] rather than overpay for Lowe. Holy wallets. Valadius Dec 12 2008 03:47 PM Good. Burnett breaks down virtually every year. metirish Dec 12 2008 04:33 PM Of all the crazy things , I guess they won the bidding war again. Frayed Knot Dec 13 2008 06:50 AM So the Yanx had themselves a 1/4 Billion dollar week. Or, as they say in the Bronx, a good starting point. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 13 2008 06:58 AM Here's hoping Burnett is even a bigger bust than Pavano. He's apparently a bigger idiot, and already a bigger injury risk. smg58 Dec 13 2008 08:27 AM The non-tenders are headed rather shockingly by ex-Met Ty Wigginton, after a very strong year with the bat. He's not that good defensively in the infield, but I have to think it had more to do with money. I also can't imagine that none of the teams in the market for a third baseman (the Twins, the Indians, the Giants) wouldn't have given him a look. I've always thought Ty could be the 10th man on a good team, and the Mets have room for him (as primarily an outfielder), but somebody might still pay him a starter's salary. Other noteworthy non-tenders include Chris Capuano (still recovering from TJS but might be worth a long-term look) and Takaishi Saito (his worth depends entirely on the status of his elbow). The only Met I saw was Argenis Reyes. If that's it, that would mean that Stokes (a good move) and Robinson Cancel (a bit surprising, unless they know they can move one of the other catchers) are staying on the 40. Nymr83 Dec 13 2008 12:59 PM i would LOVE to bring Wiggy back as a bench player, he has the pop that this bench needs and can play 2B/3B when needed (though not necessarily well) Valadius Dec 13 2008 01:20 PM I'd plug Wiggy into Easley's spot in a heartbeat. OlerudOwned Dec 13 2008 02:47 PM I'm a lot happier with Ibanez in Philly than as a Met, especially at 3 years. Keith Law calls it "absurd[/url:20pumd9t]." Ashie62 Dec 14 2008 06:30 PM What about Burrell for an everyday LF and Jon Garland as an SP? Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 07:37 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 14 2008 07:48 PM ="Valadius":2u4mpb0q]I'd plug Wiggy into Easley's spot in a heartbeat.[/quote:2u4mpb0q] We'll be competing to buy him as a super-sub against teams looking for a starting thirdbaseman. You'd probably have to be thinking of him as your starting secondbaseman when you sign him. Aaron Miles, meanwhile got non-tendered. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 14 2008 07:47 PM Besides Easley's role also included backing up Reyes at SS and Wiggy is an unrealistic option there. Edgy DC Dec 14 2008 07:56 PM Miles plays everywhere, shortstop (and mopup pitcher) included. He's pretty similar from both sides of the plate. He can take lefties away from Castillo (against whom Luis is historically weaker), pressing him for the full-time job, backup at shortstop, and fill in elsewhere as needed. He's pretty analogous to Super Joe, with a little more average and a little less power, but has more starting experience and is less likely to be over-exposed by over-use. Ashie62 Dec 15 2008 04:19 AM Miles would come cheap and would be a rich mans superjoe I'd prefer Wiggy cause he can play anything..maybe even left or RF when Murphy or Church have problems Don't we need to focus on a full-time outfielder? Relying on Church & Murphy for 150 games seems a stretch. I'd love Burrell..surly as he is and as far as a SP goes..wait til Most of The A pitchers go and go after Sheets or Garland. metirish Dec 15 2008 06:55 AM Alex Cora was again mentioned in a report today. smg58 Dec 15 2008 07:24 AM Miles is another player who would be an upgrade over Castillo. He has similar hitting numbers to Castillo from a few years ago. He's also at least average with the glove, which Castillo can no longer say. He'd be worth bringing in for something like two years and $5M, although I might go higher than that if there are no other viable 2B options. He's not Orlando Hudson, but he could present significant value. I'd be willing to go 2 years and $6M for Wigginton's services, even if I could only guarantee him starts against lefties (in the outfield). Somebody like him or Juan Rivera would boost our bench, enable us to platoon Ryan Church, and provide cover if something goes wrong with Murphy, Church, or Delgado. I'm not sure that would be enough, but nobody jumped at the chance to trade for him. Edgy DC Dec 15 2008 07:35 AM Unless and until Castillo and/or Delgado are dealt, we've got to be thinking shortstopability in our next infielder. MFS62 Dec 15 2008 07:45 AM ="Edgy DC":1omuczeq]Unless and until Castillo and/or Delgado are dealt, we've got to be thinking shortstopability in our next infielder.[/quote:1omuczeq] I agree. B'sides, if the Mets sign Cora, we might be subjected to pictures of him with his brother. I'd get flashbacks of images of Joe Torre and his sister. Hide the eyes of the chill'uns. Miles gets my vote. Later MFS62 Dec 15 2008 08:54 AM Righthander Chan Ho Park said in a press conference in Seoul today that he has agreed to a 1-year contract with the Phillies. According to the Korea Times, Park, 35, will have a base salary of $2.5 million with incentives that could push the total package to $5 million. There had been reports that the Phillies were close to coming to terms with Park to improve their bullpen. However, the pitcher said he opted for the Phillies in part because they viewed him as a starter. �I was a little worried about the Citizens Bank Park, the home of the Phillies, which is hitter-friendly,� he said. "But as they considered me a starter, I signed with Philadelphia.� http://www.philly.com/philly/b...l_for_Park.html Later Frayed Knot Dec 15 2008 05:29 PM The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either. Centerfield Dec 15 2008 07:32 PM It was me. I had some extra money lying around and I figured, "Oh what the hell." themetfairy Dec 15 2008 07:37 PM ="Centerfield":38yhgguz]It was me. I had some extra money lying around and I figured, "Oh what the hell."[/quote:38yhgguz] I love you, Man. Your posts always make me laugh. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 15 2008 08:19 PM ="Frayed Knot":uz2je510]The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either.[/quote:uz2je510] Go, Theo, go. Frayed Knot Dec 16 2008 06:36 AM Phils re-up 95 y/o Jamie Moyer for 2 years. OK, he's really only 46. Fman99 Dec 16 2008 06:40 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2wijd3xl]="Frayed Knot":2wijd3xl]The Pettitte camp (acc to WFAN) says it has a 3-year/$36mil offer from ... well, they're not saying, but I don't think it's the Yanx who are supposedly sticking w/1 year. I hope it's not us either.[/quote:2wijd3xl] Go, Theo, go.[/quote:2wijd3xl] I would not be surprised if Houston was the team not being mentioned. He pitched well down there for them and they don't have a whole lot of starting pitching depth after Oswalt. Edgy DC Dec 16 2008 06:46 AM I'm OK with Pedro. I said it. Just, you know, sign a bunch of other guys also. Farmer Ted Dec 16 2008 08:51 AM I have no problem with Petey in the #5 slot to start the season. I'm more worried with the durability of Maine and whether the other teams catch up with Pelfry's stuff. metsguyinmichigan Dec 16 2008 09:28 AM Any day the Phils resign Jamie Moyer and add Chan Ho Park is a good day for us! Edgy DC Dec 16 2008 09:31 AM The Phils trying to get two more years out of an ancient lefty strikes me as one more good reason for us to Burrell up. DocTee Dec 19 2008 09:14 AM Knucksie in Dixie: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/18/SPMQ14QQMI.DTL John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2008 09:31 AM Never made any sense to me that Lance Neikro wasn't a knuckleballer to begin with. IIRC, he had a big hit vs. the Mets (was it a game-winning HR or something?) when he first came up with the Giants and I naturally assumed he was on his way to major stardom. Fman99 Dec 21 2008 10:55 AM Fireballer Daniel Cabrera goes to the Nats, 1 year, 2.6 million. Valadius Dec 21 2008 10:55 AM Ha, good luck with that. Guy's a head case. Fman99 Dec 21 2008 10:57 AM ="Valadius":2pz740g9]Ha, good luck with that. Guy's a head case.[/quote:2pz740g9] I think people were saying that about Ollie Perez before the Pirates sent him to us. Talented, strikeout pitcher, control issues, high ERA, etc. metsguyinmichigan Dec 21 2008 10:29 PM OK, now both the Angels and the Red Sox say they're not going after Texiera anymore. Has Boras finall pushed people over the edge, or is this all just negotiating ploys? Frayed Knot Dec 22 2008 07:05 AM The Angels are claiming that their offer is "off the table" and that there'll be no further negotiating - which at least doesn't sound like a ploy. Boston, for its part, isn't claiming that, only that they think they're not going to be his choice due to other teams raising their offers beyond where they're willing to go. That leaves Teixeira in the position of either taking Boston's "low" offer or going the Baltimore/Washington route which kind of flies in the face of his 'I wanna be a contendah' pledge. Supposedly this was going to be wrapped up by Xmas but it wouldn't be the first time Boras has over-played his hand. Benjamin Grimm Dec 22 2008 07:07 AM There's still Baltimore and Washington. Boras isn't quite out of options yet. metsguyinmichigan Dec 22 2008 07:19 AM Speaking of Boras... Murray Chass MurrayChass.com Now that CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett have signed, other pitchers on the free-agent list are expected to follow. Derek Lowe is probably next on the list in terms of interest, but the interest has been all talk and no offers. His agent's asking price is said to be the reason. Scott Boras has told clubs he wants Barry Zito money for the 35-year-old Lowe, which means $18 million a year. Clubs interested in Lowe have not rushed forward with such offers. The slow-moving market may be just what the Mets want. ...Barry Zito isn't worth Barry Zito money. But Derek Lowe? Is he nuts? Edgy DC Dec 22 2008 01:44 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 22 2008 02:20 PM I'm not sure I'd support the Mets spending $18 million a year for two Derek Lowes. Valadius Dec 22 2008 02:04 PM The MOST I'd spend on Derek Lowe is $8 million a year. $18 million is beyond rationality. Willets Point Dec 22 2008 03:01 PM Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone. MFS62 Dec 23 2008 07:36 AM ="Willets Point":2bf2t6s1]Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone.[/quote:2bf2t6s1] Are you saying this because he associates with Scott Boras? Or is there something else you know about him? Later smg58 Dec 23 2008 11:23 AM Guys who can consistently give you 200+ IP with 15 wins and a sub-4 ERA are worth plenty more than 8 million. I wouldn't go four years with Lowe, on account of his age, but I'd much rather have him than Ollie. Willets Point Dec 23 2008 03:04 PM ="MFS62":3rvs0psj]="Willets Point":3rvs0psj]Oh man, Lowe needs $10 million just for booze alone.[/quote:3rvs0psj] Are you saying this because he associates with Scott Boras? Or is there something else you know about him? Later[/quote:3rvs0psj] Just a joke about Lowe's rumored love of the drink. Valadius Dec 26 2008 09:01 PM Randy Johnson will pursue his 300th win as a San Francisco Giant. Nymr83 Dec 27 2008 01:15 AM he could it be cutting it close with the type of run support the giants give their starters. he needs 5 wins, it took Matt Cain all year to get 8 wins for the Giants with an ERA+ the same as Johnson's last year. Frayed Knot Dec 27 2008 05:08 AM 'Randy Johnson is a Giant' is somewhat of a redundant headline. He's probably been called that since he was in the 4th grade. On the other hand, there must have been plenty in in the Castro district of SF who were excited to hear that someone called 'The Big Unit' was coming to their city. DocTee Dec 27 2008 09:16 AM FK with a late entry for post o' the year. The Giants have had a nice offseason (Renteria, Affeldt, Howry, Johnson) and if local rumors of them adding Adam Dunn are correct, they could be players in a weak West. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 27 2008 09:19 AM I agree. You can definitely quibble with the wisdom of a team's particular moves but I like to see franchises who've had bad years making a bunch of moves in the offseason, whether they are effective or not. Like the Giants... and the MFYs... Frayed Knot Dec 27 2008 03:49 PM X-Rockie, X-Astro OFer Wily Tavarez signs a two-year deal with Cincy. He's good at stealing bases and also .... ummmm, I'll think of something. And Kevin Mensch heads for Japan. The Japanese just might get a look at his monsterously huge head and add a second rising sun to their flag. I think that thing has its own gravitational pull. Frayed Knot Dec 29 2008 07:20 AM Penny for your Sox ... Brad Penny to Boston for 1 yr/$5mil -- pending a physical which could yet throw a wrench into the works. As mentioned elsewhere, this could keep them from chasing the likes of Lowe, Wolf, Ollie, etc. thus reducing the demand pool by one more team. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 11:20 AM This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. smg58 Dec 31 2008 12:29 PM The Cubs sign Aaron Miles for two years, then trade DeRosa to the Indians for three low level (not even top 20) prospects. At least it's not the Phillies, but that's one mild upgrade over Castillo and one significant upgrade who found takers at prices we could have afforded. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:30 PM Cubs 2B Mark DeRosa - long rumored as part of a Jake Peavy trade - dealt to Cleveland for a trio of minor league pitchers. smg58 Dec 31 2008 12:36 PM Fuentes got two years at $17.5M, plus a club option. Rotoworld says "Fuentes almost certainly took less money to play close to home," but I'm not sure who was competing with the Angels. Frayed Knot Jan 02 2009 05:47 AM Good news folks, Barry Bonds says that he should be fully recovered from the hip surgery he needs in time for opening day! Nymr83 Jan 02 2009 06:41 AM ="Frayed Knot":1xejc7ja]Good news folks, Barry Bonds says that he should be fully recovered from the hip surgery he needs in time for opening day![/quote:1xejc7ja] Better news- nobody really cares about him anymore, including it seems the GMs of all 30 teams. DocTee Jan 02 2009 04:46 PM Tony Clark returns to D-Baggs: 1 year, 800K. metirish Jan 02 2009 05:34 PM Watching MLB Network Hot Stove and they are reporting that San Francisco have offered Manny Ramirez a four year deal. Dodgers and A Jones have agreed to defer most of his money owed likely leading to him playing elsewhere. Scott Proctor to the Marlins for one year. Ashie62 Jan 03 2009 12:33 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":2ytj1poh]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels.[/quote:2ytj1poh] This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker metsmarathon Jan 03 2009 12:40 PM ="Ashie62":hblnrkgs]Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker[/quote:hblnrkgs] i don't believe that for a second. Edgy DC Jan 03 2009 12:58 PM ="Ashie62"]="Benjamin Grimm"]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker Yeah, the Mets by not getting a third closer, are doing nothing. Kong76 Jan 03 2009 01:36 PM Maybe the three closer thing is the way to go after the last two seasons. Ashie62 Jan 05 2009 02:37 PM ="Edgy DC"]="Ashie62"]="Benjamin Grimm"]This just in: Brian Fuentes to sign a two-year deal with the Angels. This just in: Mets do nothing Although the Metsies may be sewing Andruw Jones a jersey and importing steroids for his locker Yeah, the Mets by not getting a third closer, are doing nothing. True..my impatience caused me to jump over Krod & Putz KP DOOTY...I'm just frustrated that the odds of landing a power corner and a decent SP , Sheets, Garland, Lowe..are diminishing and pray the Mets are not newly cash short Burrell has a rep for being a prick but if the Rays can land him at 16 million for 2 years I then wonder why the Mets wouldn't top that and not have to expect 150 games from Murphy and even let Murphy learn 2B at AAA as an experiment. smg58 Jan 05 2009 03:15 PM The Cubs apparently are giving 3 years and $30M to Milton Bradley. They expect him to play right field full time, even though he has had trouble staying in the lineup when he's been the DH. Given Burrell's deal and the fact that Abreu would have made much more sense for them, I really don't get this one. MFS62 Jan 05 2009 04:20 PM ="smg58":1gnuo0ct]The Cubs apparently are giving 3 years and $30M to Milton Bradley. They expect him to play right field full time, even though he has had trouble staying in the lineup when he's been the DH. Given Burrell's deal and the fact that Abreu would have made much more sense for them, I really don't get this one.[/quote:1gnuo0ct] Can't wait to see him go head-to-head with Pinella. Later smg58 Jan 07 2009 05:51 AM And the bargains continue. Jason Giambi returns to Oakland for a year and an option, and Jerry Hairston stays in Cincinnatti for a year and $2M. I don't get the Mets' lack of interest in Hairston at that price. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 07 2009 06:20 AM ="smg58":162h2ehz]And the bargains continue. Jason Giambi returns to Oakland for a year and an option, and Jerry Hairston stays in Cincinnatti for a year and $2M. I don't get the Mets' lack of interest in Hairston at that price.[/quote:162h2ehz] Makes ya crazy. Geez. I mean, about Hairston. Frayed Knot Jan 07 2009 07:18 AM Maybe Hairston gets a chance to start in Cincy and couldn't be sure of that here. Never did even hear a rumor of them looking at him though. Also: - Pavano to Cleveland for a year at a low base with lotsa IP incentives - Cubs deal Jason Marquis (de Sade) to Colorado for LH reliever Luis Vizcaino Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 07:42 AM Andy Pettitte turns down one year and $10 million from the Yanks in a declining market. Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 10:10 AM Yomiuri Giant Koji Uehara signs with Bal'more for two years. Reports say that he's the team's first Japanese player, but they forget Nippo-Hawaiian Len Sakata. Centerfield Jan 07 2009 10:41 AM Len was American. smg58 Jan 07 2009 10:58 AM ="Frayed Knot":2gsb44fr]- Pavano to Cleveland for a year at a low base with lotsa IP incentives - Cubs deal Jason Marquis (de Sade) to Colorado for LH reliever Luis Vizcaino[/quote:2gsb44fr] I'll laugh if Pavano gives the Indians 27 starts (i.e., more starts than he gave the MFY's in four years). The Marquis deal appears to leave Jorge de la Rosa out of the rotation in Colorado. I'd see what the asking price for him is; he finished very strongly last year, and he's at least as good as Tim Redding. Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 11:01 AM ="Centerfield":biqnwx39]Len was American.[/quote:biqnwx39] As I said. Frayed Knot Jan 07 2009 12:00 PM From the; 'How the (somewhat) mighty have fallen' department: 2B Marcus Giles signs a minor league deal with Philly MFS62 Jan 07 2009 12:14 PM ="Frayed Knot":3hnipcdi]From the; 'How the (somewhat) mighty have fallen' department: 2B Marcus Giles signs a minor league deal with Philly[/quote:3hnipcdi] Pure insurance with Utley out for the early part of the year due to surgery. Later metirish Jan 07 2009 08:04 PM From MetsBlog Mike Fitzpatrick of the Associated Press believes the Mets have made an offer to free-agent RHP Tim Redding, who was 3-1 with a 3.41 ERA in five starts against the Phillies last season Edgy DC Jan 07 2009 08:56 PM I'll give Redding this: with one inning and six runs, he may be the worst performing Yankee ever. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 07 2009 09:06 PM Bocco Radelli to the Sed Rox. Rockin' Doc Jan 07 2009 10:03 PM If Rocco Baldelli can be reasonably healthy, he could be a great pick up for the Red Sox. I hope he is healthy and has a great season for the Sox. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 07:39 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3gx2svou]Bocco Radelli to the Sed Rox.[/quote:3gx2svou] And quite possibly Smoltz too! Not official yet but several outlets are reporting it's 'bout a done deal. I guess they're promising him a starting job - don't think he would have jumped otherwise. Other reports have Trevor Hoffman going to the Brews ... although this is only one day after others had him headed to the Dodgers. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 07:46 AM Sort of a homecoming for Smoltz. Didn't he start his career with the Braves when they were still playing in Boston? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 08 2009 07:50 AM No, the Tigers. Anywhoo, oughta soitenly remove Boston from the list of potential Lowe suitors (and cause me some concern too: Why don't any of Lowe's former employers want him back?) smg58 Jan 08 2009 07:50 AM The additions of Smoltz and Brad Penny probably take the Sox out of the discussions for Derek Lowe. Assuming Baldelli gets something like what Hairston got, I'd be a little annoyed that we didn't give him a look. We do need another righthanded bat. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 07:57 AM Yeah, I was half-hoping for Baldelli too. He's not a great player and has played fewer games in the last two seasons than Alou had in the two before we got him. But if this problem of his has finally been diagnosed correctly he could be a useful guy to have around. But Omar seems to be on this 'one problem at a time' schedule where nothing can even be talked about until the starter question is answered. metirish Jan 08 2009 08:01 AM Did bucket mis-read Ben's post? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 08 2009 08:02 AM Yes. Yes I did. Frayed Knot Jan 08 2009 08:14 AM I almost did too because I sometimes confuse the Smoltz trade with the Bagwell one from Boston. The Smoltz from Detroit for Denny Alexander trade happened around the same era as Bagwell for Larry Anderson. Both were done for pennant push help and in each case the minor leaguers were home-town guys (Smoltz is from Mich, Bags from Conn) who turned into HoF possibilities. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 08:17 AM Doyle Alexander. Now Denny McLain or somebody is getting into the conflation. metirish Jan 08 2009 10:25 AM Looking at a potential nightmare with outfield defense the MFY's are apparently looking to trade Swisher and Nady. Yankees fielding offers for Nady, Swisher Posted by: Jon Heyman The Yankees are fielding trade offers for corner outfielders Xavier Nady and Nick Swisher. There's been some speculation they might consider trading Hideki Matsui, too, but he has a full no-trade clause and is coming off knee surgery, so there's really no way to trade him. A logjam at the corners was created when the Yankees surprised a lot of folks and signed Mark Teixeira to an eight-year, $180 million contract. Swisher previously had been penciled in as the Yankees' first baseman but now becomes part of a crowded mix of accomplished corner outfielders. Swisher is a versatile player and can play some center field, as well. Some National League teams may be interested. However, Nady's trade value is higher after a better offensive season, so he may be just as likely to be dealt. Nady, acquired by the Yankees in a midseason trade with the Pirates, combined to hit .305 with 25 home runs and 97 RBIs for the year, while Swisher finished at .219 with 24 home runs and 69 RBIs for the White Sox before being dealt to the Yankees after the season Vic Sage Jan 08 2009 02:09 PM i'd sure take Nady back, to split time with Church, Murphy and Delgado. But no way the Yanx trade him cross town. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 02:30 PM You leave Tatis out of that mix. Nady gives you what Tatis gives you, only more and probably better and definitely younger. Tatis' only advantage is playing third. I'd love a Nady around because I think the best way to get something like last year's productivity out of Tatis is to make him earn every at-bat. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 02:43 PM Maybe Murphy will do that, but I'm not counting on it. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 02:46 PM What's going down, and I think a lot of us feel it, is that a lot of things went kind of right in Omar's offense that could have easily gone wronger, and he's kind of seeming to kind of be counting on a lot of those same thingies to go right again. Fans be pessemistic creatures, of course. Vic Sage Jan 08 2009 03:21 PM Last year, i think we got about as much as we can reasonably expect this year from 1b, ss, 3b and CF. We got nothing from 2b and C, and RF was a mixed bag. But Murphy/Tatis in LF certainly outperformed all expectations and i do not believe for a minute we'll get similar production from that combo again this year. So, we either upgrade at 2b, c, and/or Rf to compensate, or replace the LF combo before it blows up in our faces. Or we go into the season with 1/2 the lineup very well likely to suck, to one degree or another, even as Omar whistles past the graveyard. attgig Jan 08 2009 03:29 PM ="Vic Sage":37m9y64n]Last year, i think we got about as much as we can reasonably expect this year from 1b, ss, 3b and CF. We got nothing from 2b and C, and RF was a mixed bag. But Murphy/Tatis in LF certainly outperformed all expectations and i do not believe for a minute we'll get similar production from that combo again this year. So, we either upgrade at 2b, c, and/or Rf to compensate, or replace the LF combo before it blows up in our faces. Or we go into the season with 1/2 the lineup very well likely to suck, to one degree or another, even as Omar whistles past the graveyard.[/quote:37m9y64n] and you have a wild card at 1b, so it's not even half a lineup. nobody has faith in schnied to produce offensively, and while castro COULD provide some pop, he just gets hurt too often (he must be the worst backup catcher in the league). 2b, nobody has faith in castillo, except he's saying all the right things. and Church... will his head be screwed on straight? it'll be an interesting few more weeks before spring training. Benjamin Grimm Jan 08 2009 03:35 PM I agree with Vic, including about left field, but I'd be okay with giving Murphy/Tatis a chance to shine again. But in doing that, you have to protect yourself by beefing up some of the other positions. And as yet, the Mets haven't done anything towards that end. Edgy DC Jan 08 2009 07:12 PM Ramon Castro, not the worst backup catcher in the league. DocTee Jan 09 2009 09:42 AM John Smoltz, Red Sock. metirish Jan 09 2009 12:35 PM Swisher the Yanks' preferred candidate over Nady BY KEN DAVIDOFF | ken.davidoff@newsday.com January 9, 2009 In their current roster logjam, the Yankees would strongly prefer to trade Xavier Nady and retain Nick Swisher, a person familiar with the club's thinking said yesterday. General manager Brian Cashman has received more requests for Swisher than for Nady. With spring training more than a month away and the season opener just about three months away, however, there is no imperative to execute a quick trade. The Mets enjoyed having Nady on their club for the first four months of the 2006 season, and they inquired about him last July, when the Yankees wound up getting him from Pittsburgh. For now, however, the Mets are focused on their starting rotation and are not looking to acquire a bat either through free agency or through a trade. Frayed Knot Jan 09 2009 01:54 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 09 2009 02:02 PM Swisher switch-hits, and is better and more versatile defensively. He's also signed for the next few years which could be either good or bad depending on whether he regains his hitting from last season's off year. Nady is more likely to hit better (though walk less) and would only be for one year at a price to be determined by arbitration then would be a FA after that. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 09 2009 01:59 PM If we weren't already loaded with lefthanded hitting outfielders, I'd take Godzilla as a LH bench masher in the Franco/Staub mold. Frayed Knot Jan 09 2009 02:04 PM As long as the Cranks would pay 90% of the freight and expect nothing back in return, sure. (OK, maybe 70% with a throw-in going the other way would do) Ashie62 Jan 09 2009 05:10 PM I feel safe to say Tatis has had his middle aged career year..I wouldn't put too high a ceiling there. Daniel Murphy needs more seasoning and I still advocate a year at AAA to learn 2B Mr. Nady..wasn't he a Met who know has Yankee cooties? metirish Jan 11 2009 03:46 PM Source: Martinez talking to Marlins By Enrique Rojas ESPNdeportes.com SANTO DOMINGO, Domican Republic -- Pedro Martinez and the Florida Marlins are believed to be in the beginning stages of negotiating a contract and could meet next week, a source told ESPNdeportes.com Saturday night. The Marlins have spoken with Martinez's agent. Martinez, 37, has won three Cy Young awards and has a career record of 214-99, with a 2.91 ERA and 3,117 strikeouts in 17 seasons with Los Angeles, Montreal, Boston and the New York Mets. Martinez struggled last season to a 5-6 record with a 5.61 ERA with the Mets, after battling injuries and dealing with the death of his father. In his first year with the Mets, Martinez won 15 games and struck out 208 batters in 217 innings. But he has been 17-15 in the last three seasons. Martinez owns a house in Miami. Fman99 Jan 11 2009 07:52 PM ="metirish"]Source: Martinez talking to Marlins By Enrique Rojas ESPNdeportes.com SANTO DOMINGO, Domican Republic -- Pedro Martinez and the Florida Marlins are believed to be in the beginning stages of negotiating a contract and could meet next week, a source told ESPNdeportes.com Saturday night. The Marlins have spoken with Martinez's agent. Martinez, 37, has won three Cy Young awards and has a career record of 214-99, with a 2.91 ERA and 3,117 strikeouts in 17 seasons with Los Angeles, Montreal, Boston and the New York Mets. Martinez struggled last season to a 5-6 record with a 5.61 ERA with the Mets, after battling injuries and dealing with the death of his father. In his first year with the Mets, Martinez won 15 games and struck out 208 batters in 217 innings. But he has been 17-15 in the last three seasons. Martinez owns a house in Miami. Pedro really looked spent in 2008, after having a respectable September prior. I don't think he has much in the tank and I would not miss all the drama. Rockin' Doc Jan 11 2009 09:29 PM Marlins not interested in signing Pedro By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com MIAMI -- Don't look for Pedro Martinez to wind up with the Marlins. A day after a report stated the Marlins were in the mix for the 37-year-old right-hander, a league source confirmed to MLB.com on Sunday that Florida has zero interest. Reports in the Miami Herald, Palm Beach Post and SunSentinel also ruled out the possibility of Martinez joining the club. On Saturday night, a report on ESPNdeportes.com stated the Marlins had discussions with agent Fernando Cuza regarding Martinez. The report added Florida may have begun preliminary contract talks, and that the two sides were expected to continue talking this week. As of late Sunday afternoon, the Marlins were not considered a possible fit. Martinez has a home in Miami, and he has expressed privately a desire to pitch for the Marlins. On Monday, Cuza is expected to have discussions with the Mets about a possible return to New York. The right-hander also is expected to test the free-agent market. Hampered by injuries last year, Martinez was 5-6 with a 5.61 ERA in 20 starts. He threw 109 innings. Working with minimal financial resources, the Marlins are looking for affordable free agents. The team did explore adding veteran Carl Pavano, who signed with the Indians. The Marlins are prepared to head into Spring Training with a rotation that includes Josh Johnson, Ricky Nolasco, Chris Volstad, Andrew Miller and Anibal Sanchez. Nolasco, eliglbe for arbitration, still has not signed. Florida continues to explore depth at catcher. The team is looking for low-priced options there. A free agent that could be a fit is Ivan Rodriguez, but only if his price tag continues to drop this month. Frayed Knot Jan 12 2009 07:01 AM IOW, the earlier story was an agent plant. Edgy DC Jan 12 2009 08:20 AM Yeah, use the threat of the Daddy Warbucks Marlins to trigger a false bidding war. That's the ticket. Rockin' Doc Jan 12 2009 11:09 AM I think that Pedro had far more interest in the Marlins than they had in him. I believe that Pedro is desperate to play another season, but I don't think teams throughout the league are very interested in signing him. Pedro was once a dominant, HOF caliber pitcher, but he seems to be the one person that doesn't see how far removed from his former greatness he now is. metirish Jan 12 2009 11:17 AM If Pedro Martinez retired tomorrow he would surely be in the HOF at first ballot , wouldn't he? Rockin' Doc Jan 12 2009 11:21 AM I was not inferring that Pedro Martinez was not worthy of enshrinement in Coopperstown. He has had a tremendous career and was arguably one of the top 2 or 3 pitchers in MLB for several seasons. I would vote for him (if I had a vote) when his name comes up on the HOF ballot. I was simply stating that he is not nearly the dominant pitcher he once was. Edgy DC Jan 12 2009 11:22 AM I think he's pretty aware of what happened last year. If he didn't still believe he could turn it around, he wouldn't be the great pitcher he is. What's more, I believe he could turn it around. In his prime, he had an unprecedented four killer pitches, so it's not like he was fastball-reliant. It's a matter of finding what he can do with what's left of his fastball and using it to complement the rest of his arsenal. That's a far ways from saying he will return to a productive level, but I'm certain he can. Glavine continued to pitch effectively with a powder puff fastball and a change. While his control was still very good, Pedro's has always been even better. And if I'm the Mets, I'm willing to spend some change to find out. Giving him Redding's money with an automatically vesting bonus year of $9 million if he gets 180 innings? Yeah, go for it. I'm certain he can do as well as Redding in 2009, and a damn fine bet to do better. The only thing Redding has over him is a better doctor's report. metirish Jan 12 2009 05:05 PM Michael Young wants out of Texas , can play 2nd base. I should add that Heyman just said on the Hot stove that he has %62 million left on his big contract. smg58 Jan 12 2009 05:22 PM Young's expensive, and the dropoff in his numbers over the past three years has been precipitous. Even if they took Castillo it would still be a $10M payroll hit, and he's just not that good anymore. Frayed Knot Jan 15 2009 01:14 PM Dodgers reportedly to release Andruw before today is out Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2009 01:52 PM Wow. He's horrendously overpaid, but they're going to have to eat that contract anyway. Is there no hope of him having a bounceback year? Someone will be able to pick him up for minimum wage, and they may get a hell of a bargain at the Dodgers expense. metirish Jan 15 2009 01:56 PM Jones was on MLB Network the other night talking about how he would love to go back to the Braves. Edgy DC Jan 15 2009 02:01 PM No doubt. metsmarathon Jan 15 2009 02:28 PM i'd give andruw a shot, for minimum wage... Frayed Knot Jan 15 2009 05:45 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":2v9kwf3v]Wow. He's horrendously overpaid, but they're going to have to eat that contract anyway. Is there no hope of him having a bounceback year?[/quote:2v9kwf3v] I guess not enough of a chance in their minds to make carrying him all year worth it. They restructured his deal last week with a release in mind so I assume they're going to do similar thing to what we did with Bonilla (only on a much bigger scale): pay out the remainder over a long period to avoid getting hit with it all at once. Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2009 08:34 AM The Philadelphia Inquirer is reporting today that the Phillies are aggressively trying to sign Moises Alou. metirish Jan 23 2009 08:36 AM Would Alou be a starter there or would he be in a limited role , who's in the outfield there along with Ibanez?...Dobbs?....Victorino? John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 23 2009 08:37 AM Watch him hit .500 and stay healthy all year. Bastard. Frayed Knot Jan 23 2009 08:44 AM He wouldn't start there - but he'd be a potentially good RH bat off the bench for a predominately lefty hitting squad. Benjamin Grimm Jan 23 2009 08:51 AM The three options (Perez, Wolf, and Sheets) may be soon reduced to two: ="MLB.com":2t16pb69]The deep freeze that's been the Major League free-agent market this winter has shown indications a thaw is coming -- at least for starting pitchers. On the heels of the Mets reaching an apparent agreement on a Minor League deal with right-hander Freddy Garcia, it looks like the Dodgers have taken the inside track in the competition for lefty starter Randy Wolf's services. According to sources for FoxSports.com, Wolf could most likely be signed to a one or two-year deal. Wolf previously pitched for Los Angeles in 2007 and was 12-12 with a 4.30 ERA in a combined 33 starts last season for the Padres and Astros. FoxSports.com said Wolf would get less than the three-year, $28 million offer the pitcher turned down from Houston earlier this winter. [/quote:2t16pb69] metsguyinmichigan Jan 23 2009 08:57 AM Supposedly, Sheets is meeting with the Rangers. metirish Jan 23 2009 08:58 AM Wolf turned down an offer for that much? , and I was thinking he could be had for a song on a one year deal. sharpie Jan 23 2009 08:58 AM Fine. I actually saw Wolf pitch twice last year, at the only game I attended at MFY Stadium and at the game I attended at Petco. Both time he got shellacked. smg58 Jan 23 2009 09:34 AM There are a number of available starters who can give you at least a league average ERA, several of whom have the upside to do significantly better. Randy Wolf is not one of them. I see no point in pursuing a demonstrably inferior pitcher just because he's a lefty. Edgy DC Jan 23 2009 09:59 AM I don't think anybody but Wally Matthews is arguing that his leftiness is important, and Wally is only throwing that pitch to drum up "Mets Gotta Steal Pettitte" angles. Who do you have your eye on? metirish Jan 23 2009 08:11 PM Just turned over to MLB Network after watching "What Not To Wear" and heard Tom Verducci say that Perez is moving closer to signing with the Mets. John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 23 2009 08:59 PM Here's the source: Jon "Boras Boy" Heyman ]Mets extend offer to Perez, their top target The Mets have placed an offer on the table for free-agent lefthander Oliver Perez, SI.com has learned, and are hopeful to have an answer in coming days regarding their prime pitching target. The Mets are believed to have improved their original thought, which was for about $30 million over three years. But it isn't certain what their latest offer is. Perez remains the Mets' top choice for the final spot in their rotation, though the team has remained in contact with three other free-agent pitchers -- Randy Wolf, Jon Garland and Ben Sheets. They know they'd have competition for Wolf (Dodgers), Garland (Diamondbacks) and Sheets (Rangers, possibly Yankees) but aren't sure what other teams are competing for Perez. The Mets had been hopeful to land free agent Derek Lowe earlier but were surprised when the rival Braves outbid them by $24 million, landing Lowe with a $60-million, four-year contract. Perez, 27, is eight years younger than Lowe, though not quite as consistent. Mets GM Omar Minaya would love to import Perez, so the Mets are not likely to take one of the other pitchers unless he feels his chances for Perez are gone. Nymr83 Jan 24 2009 12:14 PM I hope "the mystery team" comes and raises perez's price too high so we can sign Sheets. Then Boras and Perez can admit there was no mystery team and we get both at a reduced rate! MFS62 Jan 24 2009 01:21 PM If money is the issue, I'd like to see the Mets sign Sheets and with any Ollie Perez money left over, go out and sign Odalis Perez. His ERA was only .10 worse than Ollie's last year, is still only 32 years old, and probably be signed for far less money than any of the other names that have been in the press lately. Later MFS62 Jan 24 2009 01:21 PM Oops. Dupe Sorry Later seawolf17 Jan 30 2009 01:00 PM Varitek back to Boston for one year, $5 million. Frayed Knot Jan 30 2009 02:36 PM Varitek's (read: Boras's) threat to sit out the season and/or retire didn't get the Sox to budge I see. Tek is one of several who turned down arbitration offers this winter only to wind up not only with a much smaller deal than arb would have snagged him but didn't get the multi-year deal either. Now it's hope you play well and the economy improves when you can do the same dance next year. Ashie62 Feb 02 2009 03:56 PM Anyone for Varitek via trade and a pay raise? Fman99 Feb 02 2009 07:27 PM ="Ashie62":2t5ssjz6]Anyone for Varitek via trade and a pay raise?[/quote:2t5ssjz6] .220 metirish Feb 02 2009 07:43 PM Is that his weight or his average? , sucks either way though. metirish Feb 04 2009 11:35 AM ]Left-hander Chase Wright was traded by the New York Yankees to the Milwaukee Brewers on Wednesday for outfielder-catcher Eric Fryer. metirish Feb 07 2009 02:23 PM Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's. Rockin' Doc Feb 07 2009 05:10 PM metirish - "Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's." Good to see that Jones has his pride. Better to go unsigned than sell one's soul by possibly donning a Yankee uniform. I suddenly have a new sense of respect for Jones. MFS62 Feb 08 2009 07:35 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2e2xwbch]metirish - "Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's." Good to see that Jones has his pride. Better to go unsigned than sell one's soul by possibly donning a Yankee uniform. I suddenly have a new sense of respect for Jones.[/quote:2e2xwbch] B'sides, they couldn't have the signing photo op soon anyhow. They'd first have to send out Cecil Fielder's uni to have the seams let out to fit Jones. Later Frayed Knot Feb 08 2009 08:45 PM Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do. Fman99 Feb 09 2009 06:44 AM ="Frayed Knot":1zv55w66]Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do.[/quote:1zv55w66] Yeah, poor guy. My heart breaks for him. /sarcasm Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 07:07 AM It's not like he doesn't get to keep the 15 miills. Vic Sage Feb 09 2009 09:08 AM yeah, i mean basically he just got a raise! Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 09:26 AM Sure, it just shows a helluva difference between what someone thought he was worth last year vs what they think he's worth barely a year later. How the mighty (and fat) have fallen.

="Nymr83"]]Dawson's vs. Baines' defense isn't an opportunity to indict the Gold Glove system, but a chance to recognize that these guys were on two different planets regarding defensive contributions. The GG system itself sucks, i didn't mean that as a knock on Dawson's defense but as a knock on citing GGs as a reason to call him a great defender. I'm not ignoring you either, You just werent speaking to the point I was making, which is that Baines is a (slightly) better hitter than Dawson and therefore comments about them being "not even close" are wrong. And if you want Bill James to determine who gets into the hall and who doesn't I'm ok with that, I probably wouldn't agree with everything he'd say but he'd be a hell of a lot better at it than the guys who get to vote now. No, Baines was not (slightly) a better hitter than Dawson. He was a much better walker. In every other aspect, Dawson's better (home runs, doubles, triples, stolen bases) or equal (hits). Up and down the board, on any day of the week, in any season, I'd much rather have Dawson on my team than Baines. Dawson spots him two hundred games and STILL beats him overall.

Part of the Hall of Fame discussion, I think, is whether a player was considered dominant at the time. You can't say that Andre Dawson wasn't considered among the dominant players in the NL during the bulk of his career. That's where the ASG starts and the MVP votes -- I think -- are so important, because it speaks to the time.