seawolf17

="Edgy DC":3hea533s]This isn't about us.[/quote:3hea533s] Exactly. We didn't have a dog in this fight. I was more disappointed with Swisher going to the Bronx, because I thought he could have helped us. Get me Adam Dunn, Ollie, and Lowe, Omar. metirish Dec 23 2008 05:12 PM I think Hank stole $400 million from Fred. seawolf17 Dec 23 2008 05:15 PM Not necessarily -- this was Giambi/Mussina/Pavano money. They pulled a lot off the books this off-season, so they had money to play with. Fman99 Dec 23 2008 05:39 PM Apparently Christmas is the season for ****kicking. I have a big jealous chubby. I wish we would sign an impact bat. It's a bad deal but they print their own cash over there anyway. Fman99 Dec 23 2008 05:40 PM ="smg58":39swv4no]I think we should all move to the Bronx. The economy appears to be really, really good over there.[/quote:39swv4no] Couldn't I just punch myself in the face and eat my own shit instead? John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 23 2008 06:02 PM F the MFYs and F Texiera. I hope he has every bit as distinguished a tenure there as Giambi did, speaking of mercenary ****s I don't like. Willets Point Dec 23 2008 06:11 PM I suppose this means the Yankees will be hoisting the World Series trophy for the 27th time this coming October. Sigh. Kong76 Dec 23 2008 07:32 PM EDC: This isn't about us <<< Yeah, I won't even yup� it. Kong76 Dec 23 2008 07:45 PM I'll add that I'm against nearly decade long deals for anyone or anything. Rockin' Doc Dec 23 2008 08:09 PM A lot can happen in eight years. In the short term, it should be a great signing for the Yankmes. In the long term, I'm hoping this deal eventually becomes a millstone that drags down the dark empire for many years. I think the Mets should have Snachez hail Teixeira a cab when he comes to town for the contract announcement. metirish Dec 24 2008 04:28 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2gy0nvub]F the MFYs and F Texiera. I hope he has every bit as distinguished a tenure there as Giambi did, speaking of mercenary ****s I don't like.[/quote:2gy0nvub] Noting to add really except a big fuck yeah. MFS62 Dec 24 2008 05:42 AM Wht couldn't the Steinbrenners have invested all their money with Bernie Madoff? :ater Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 06:43 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2dvdkd97]A lot can happen in eight years. In the short term, it should be a great signing for the Yankmes. In the long term, I'm hoping this deal eventually becomes a millstone that drags down the dark empire for many years.[/quote:2dvdkd97] That's the danger in long-term deals for ... well, anyone, but 1st basemen in particular; except for DH there's nowhere for them to go once they start aging and if the bat starts to wane they're suddenly not very valuable. And now that I think about it, have there been any 1B/DH types in their late 30s towards the end of a long-term deal who were NOT overpaid? I keep coming up with names like: Mo Vaughn - Greg Vaughn - Todd Helton - Jason Giambi - Jim Thome - Richie Sexson and not a whole lot of the other kind. That Teixeira is a great fielder gives him a bigger margin for error than Giambi (although he's not much more mobile) but at least JG was coming off an MVP season (should have been two) something Teixeira's yet to even near. But Giambi's fatness and steroid use aside, Todd Helton's probably the best comp here: a terrific hitter/fielder in his prime signed to a lengthy deal (11 yrs in Helton's case) who, while still useful as the end nears, has lost his power and is totally unmovable due to the contract. metirish Dec 24 2008 07:08 AM WOW , had totally forgotten about Greg Vaughn. I think with Helton the fans there are a lot more forgiving with him being a lifer in that organization and a general great guy , he's basically Sean Casey now days. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:19 AM Greg Vaughn was an OF, not a 1B, but same deal. He became worthless defensively. I remember my nephew -- now 12 -- being confused as a kid and calling them both "Gregmo Vaughn." Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 07:37 AM See, the Athletics have this theory of "Get guys who can hit and who can walk, and we'll find positions for them." The Yankees seem to have a corrupted version of that thinking though. That works at one level when you're populating the lineup with 21-22 year olds who may not be as gifted with the glove, but still have their youthful suppleness, their foot quickness, their healthy knees, their lean frames. Before this gets too homoerotic, I mean to say it's another thing entirely when you're gobbling these guys up six, seven, eight years into their careers, and they're drifting already towards the right side of the defensive spectrum. They've got a bunch of Xavier Nadys and nowhere to play them. Even if Teixiera doesn't deteriorate, he contributes to the logjam of everybody who does. I'd consider moving him back to third, Rodriguez to short, and Jeter to second. Then I'd dye my hair and move to Belgium. They can always keep bringing left field in, I suppose. DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:11 AM 8 years is a long time. For comparison's sake, look at who was on the Opening Day lineups for 1B men in 2000 and see how many of them you'd want starting this April. That's what the 2017 MFY are looking at. Great deal short-term, harder to justify long-term Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 09:18 AM You're point is strong, but that would be the 2002 starting lineups, wouldn't it? DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:22 AM Stoopid arithmetic Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 09:28 AM I'll do the NL East: Atlanta: BJ Surhoff Florida: Derrek Lee Montreal: Lee Stevens Philadelphia: Travis Lee New York: Mo Vaughn DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:37 AM AL East: Baltimore: Jeff Conine Boston: Tony Clark Tampa: Steve Cox Toronto: Carlos Delgado MFY: Jason Giambi TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:47 AM NL Central: St. Louis: Tino Martinez Houston: Jeff Bagwell Cincy: Sean Casey Pittsburgh: Kevin Young Chicago: Fred McGriff Milwaukee: Richie Sexson DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:52 AM NL West: Dodgers: Eric Karros Giants: JT Snow Rockies: Todd Helton Padres: Phil Nevin Diamondbacks: Mark Grace DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:01 AM AL West: Oakland: Carlos Pena Seattle: John Olerud Texas: Rafael Palmeiro LAA: Benji Gil AL Central: Chicago: Paul Konerko Cleveland: Jim Thome Detroit: Dmitri Young Kansas City: Mike Sweeney Minnesota: Doug Mientkiewicz Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 10:06 AM I'm not sure what this proves. Some of those first basemen might have been 35 years old and may have been a good choice for that particular season. It doesn't mean their team was planning on keeping them for eight years. If anything, we should see which of those guys was 29 (or younger) in 2002 and then see how viable they still are eight years later. (And anyway, if we're talking eight years shouldn't we be looking at 2001?) DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:08 AM That's thirty teams. Six guys (Delgado, Thome, Konerko, Derrek Lee, Pena, and Helton) who may start. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 10:30 AM Ben Grimm is right, but i'd look at more than just 2002 if we're narrowing the field to just 29 year olds. i would look at guys who were 28-30 and use a range like 1997-2001 then look 8 years forward on each guy Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 10:30 AM Yanx without real positions this year. Damon - Probably will play LF cuz he can no longer play the position he was hired for (CF). Contract up after the year. Matsui - Pushed to DH/bench by Damon being pushed to LF. Contract up after the year. Swisher - Lost position before he really had one. Maybe he's the CF (although he's not really very good there) or a still-young semi-expensive utility man under contract for at least two more years. Cabrera - If Swisher plays, he doesn't. And he doesn't hit enough to DH. Then there's the question about whether Posada can still catch and, if so, how often. And it also leaves no room to move Jeter - not that they were going to do that anyway. DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:36 AM ]I'm not sure what this proves. It proves that I would rather do anything other than finish grading papers on Christmas Eve. duh. metirish Dec 24 2008 10:38 AM Also what happens to Posada and first base , I guess they are stuck with him as a full time catcher. duan Dec 24 2008 12:10 PM core talent wise If you asked me to compare the following for their value over the next 3/4 years (when contracts start running out on either side!) Alex Rodriguez v David Wright. Even Derek Jeter v Jose Reyes. Reyes Mark Texiera v Carlos Beltran Even CC Sabathia v Johan Santana Even The 4 yankees have the highest contracts in baseball. We're doing ok in the big ticket areas, we just have to be sure our spoorting cast is better. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 12:37 PM Would you trade our four for their four, right now, for 2009? I wouldn't. metirish Dec 24 2008 12:39 PM Not a chance I would do that. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 12:54 PM ]we just have to be sure our spoorting cast is better. we need to "be sure" our roster is better than Philadelphia's, Atlanta's, etc. not the New York Yankees' roster. metsguyinmichigan Dec 24 2008 01:03 PM I would even say I'd take Santana over Sabbathia rather than call that one even! That would give us two -- and without the Jeter stench! Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:39 PM So, Nady's the one with a guaranteed job? Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 02:18 PM Yanx lineup: - 1B: Highest paid 1st baseman, both currently and in the history of the game - 2B: 2nd highest paid active player (behind Utley) at the position - SS: Highest paid at the position in the history of the game - 3B: highest paid player [u:1kg25lk9]of any kind[/u:1kg25lk9] in the history of the game - C: Highest paid at the position in the history of the game - SP: Highest paid starter in the history of the game - RP: Highest paid reliever in the history of the game - The 4 largest contracts (total value) in the history of the game - Their 2008 Lux Tax bill was the same size as the Marlins payroll (which says something about both them and the Marlins). metirish Dec 24 2008 02:19 PM Incredible . Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 02:26 PM The Yankees really have to shore things up at second. Gwreck Dec 24 2008 10:19 PM ="seawolf17":3nh2omhf]Would you trade our four for their four, right now, for 2009? I wouldn't.[/quote:3nh2omhf] I wouldn't either. Maybe Texeira over Beltran...maybe. Beltran's defense at an impact position may still make Carlos more valuable, even if he doesn't have quite the same offensive production as Texeira. The other 3? Forget it. (Yes, even Rodriguez, if only for the baggage he brings). Ashie62 Dec 25 2008 10:02 AM Teixeira sponsorship on Baseball_Reference Somebody got to this quicky..A Yanqui smackdown on www.baseball-reference.com ... seawolf17 Dec 25 2008 12:08 PM ="Edgy DC":25bor5gt]The Yankees really have to shore things up at second.[/quote:25bor5gt] Someone send Hank Steinbrenner a 2005 baseball card of Luis Castillo, then have Omar call him and offer him Castillo for Nady and Cano. Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 10:54 AM And the last of the teams getting screwed by the Yanx signing Teixeira winds up being Milwaukee, plus, to a lesser extent, Toronto. With Sabathia, Burnett, & Teixeira all being Type-A FAs, obviously only one team can get the Yanx 1st round pick (mid-20s somewhere) in next June's draft. That team turns out to be the Angels based on Teixeira being the top-rated of all those FAs. Sabathia ranks next so the Brews get the Yanx 2nd rounder, while Toronto gets their 3rd round choice (probably up above pick #100) as compensation for losing Burnett. All three teams also get supplemental picks (in the same order I believe) after the end of the first round. So those Brew fans who consoled themselves by figuring they'd get a top-25 pick and a top-40 out of losing big CC wind up with one in the mid-60s or so to go along with the top-40. Oh well. Edgy DC Dec 26 2008 11:07 AM It would be maybe more coolio if maybe the second team who lost a type A to Team Y could get a pick right after the first team. Team Y, for their part, would sacrifice their first round pick for 2009 after signing the first, their first-round pick for 20010 after signing the second, etc. If Team Y is the Yankees, they'd be out first rounders up to 2051 by now, which would be such an abstraction to them, they'd care little, but they care little now anyhow, and at least the team losing their guy to the Yankees would get a prompt and fair (or more close to the intended fairness) compensation. The first year or two under this policy would lead to a bloated round one, but that would even out in subsequent years. metirish Dec 26 2008 11:24 AM Cashman is all about the farm , especially since he gained full control from the Tampa Rowdies a few years back.

="Benjamin Grimm":3sh8z3bk]I think us Yankee haters are going to pay dearly for the enjoyment we got out of the Yankees missing the playoffs in 2008. Of course, if they miss out again in 2009, it will be all the sweeter.[/quote:3sh8z3bk] So, so true. On both counts. But if anyone knows about "winning in December," it's Mets fans. They can have all the headlines they want right now. ="TransMonk":3sh8z3bk]FWIW, I'm glad he won't be playing in Washington.[/quote:3sh8z3bk] Me too. Glad not to see him 19 times a year. I was worried about that. Edgy DC Dec 23 2008 02:19 PM I'm going to fall in the category of "they're overpaying." They came up with a long-term solution to a short-term problem and I hope his deal will work out about as well as the Giambi one. I think his price-tag is dispropotionately tilted due to the post-trade muscle-ups he's been doing the last two years. YearPeriodAVGOBPSLGOPSOPS+2007Before Trade.297.397.524.921141After Trade.317.404.6151.0191632008Before Trade.283.390.512.902136After Trade.358.449.6321.081180 Yeah, I know. He looks pretty sexy before the trade too. But nothing lasts forever but the immense time. Let's see him hit a gyroball. Frayed Knot Dec 23 2008 02:28 PM Moves like this always pose a dilemma for MFY fans. The string of non-championship seasons have ignited a call for the return to home-grown and role players [repeat after me: like Tino, Brosius, & O'Neill] and an end to the "mercenaries" who can't win [ARod, Mussina, Giambi, Unit, etc]. Such logic is, of course, bullshit, seeing as how it requires one to wait and see how the player's NYY term works out before deciding whether said player was one of those great pickups who qualifies as a "true Yanqui" or an overpaid import who sucks and can't handle New York. So it'll fun to see how they hate/love this move (along with Sabathia, Burnett) all at once. Nice player, though a lot of money and years for a one-time All-Star who has once finished in the top 10 for MVP voting. I guess it means Swisher goes to CF (where he's not very good) or gets moved in a quick turn-around trade. The other guy this screws is Manny. It takes away the one big-money spot he was hoping could up the bidding and Boston is already out of the equation. metsguyinmichigan Dec 23 2008 02:36 PM They've spent nearly a half-billion dollars this off-season. This might be the best of their three moves. Burnett is a huge injury risk, and I just don't think Sabbathia is gonna work out over the long haul. smg58 Dec 23 2008 02:46 PM I think we should all move to the Bronx. The economy appears to be really, really good over there. Centerfield Dec 23 2008 04:02 PM That chart doesn't make me feel better at all. Ashie62 Dec 23 2008 04:02 PM The MFY'S sign Teixeira while The Wilpons sit on their ass I'm beginning to think The whole Citi/Madoff Debits Field mess in affecting the pursuits of FA's..even a "cheap" starting pitcher. Randy Wolf is the only name I saw mentioned 3yrs-30M Never easy being a Mets fan Farmer Ted Dec 23 2008 04:04 PM I hope Santa kicks Tex in the ****. Ashie62 Dec 23 2008 04:04 PM ="Farmer Ted":1owm5s1e]I hope Santa kicks Tex in the ****.[/quote:1owm5s1e] I hope Santa kicks Omar in the **** Edgy DC Dec 23 2008 05:05 PM This isn't about us. seawolf17 Dec 23 2008 05:12 PM ="Edgy DC":3hea533s]This isn't about us.[/quote:3hea533s] Exactly. We didn't have a dog in this fight. I was more disappointed with Swisher going to the Bronx, because I thought he could have helped us. Get me Adam Dunn, Ollie, and Lowe, Omar. metirish Dec 23 2008 05:12 PM I think Hank stole $400 million from Fred. seawolf17 Dec 23 2008 05:15 PM Not necessarily -- this was Giambi/Mussina/Pavano money. They pulled a lot off the books this off-season, so they had money to play with. Fman99 Dec 23 2008 05:39 PM Apparently Christmas is the season for ****kicking. I have a big jealous chubby. I wish we would sign an impact bat. It's a bad deal but they print their own cash over there anyway. Fman99 Dec 23 2008 05:40 PM ="smg58":39swv4no]I think we should all move to the Bronx. The economy appears to be really, really good over there.[/quote:39swv4no] Couldn't I just punch myself in the face and eat my own shit instead? John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 23 2008 06:02 PM F the MFYs and F Texiera. I hope he has every bit as distinguished a tenure there as Giambi did, speaking of mercenary ****s I don't like. Willets Point Dec 23 2008 06:11 PM I suppose this means the Yankees will be hoisting the World Series trophy for the 27th time this coming October. Sigh. Kong76 Dec 23 2008 07:32 PM EDC: This isn't about us <<< Yeah, I won't even yup� it. Kong76 Dec 23 2008 07:45 PM I'll add that I'm against nearly decade long deals for anyone or anything. Rockin' Doc Dec 23 2008 08:09 PM A lot can happen in eight years. In the short term, it should be a great signing for the Yankmes. In the long term, I'm hoping this deal eventually becomes a millstone that drags down the dark empire for many years. I think the Mets should have Snachez hail Teixeira a cab when he comes to town for the contract announcement. metirish Dec 24 2008 04:28 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2gy0nvub]F the MFYs and F Texiera. I hope he has every bit as distinguished a tenure there as Giambi did, speaking of mercenary ****s I don't like.[/quote:2gy0nvub] Noting to add really except a big fuck yeah. MFS62 Dec 24 2008 05:42 AM Wht couldn't the Steinbrenners have invested all their money with Bernie Madoff? :ater Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 06:43 AM ="Rockin' Doc":2dvdkd97]A lot can happen in eight years. In the short term, it should be a great signing for the Yankmes. In the long term, I'm hoping this deal eventually becomes a millstone that drags down the dark empire for many years.[/quote:2dvdkd97] That's the danger in long-term deals for ... well, anyone, but 1st basemen in particular; except for DH there's nowhere for them to go once they start aging and if the bat starts to wane they're suddenly not very valuable. And now that I think about it, have there been any 1B/DH types in their late 30s towards the end of a long-term deal who were NOT overpaid? I keep coming up with names like: Mo Vaughn - Greg Vaughn - Todd Helton - Jason Giambi - Jim Thome - Richie Sexson and not a whole lot of the other kind. That Teixeira is a great fielder gives him a bigger margin for error than Giambi (although he's not much more mobile) but at least JG was coming off an MVP season (should have been two) something Teixeira's yet to even near. But Giambi's fatness and steroid use aside, Todd Helton's probably the best comp here: a terrific hitter/fielder in his prime signed to a lengthy deal (11 yrs in Helton's case) who, while still useful as the end nears, has lost his power and is totally unmovable due to the contract. metirish Dec 24 2008 07:08 AM WOW , had totally forgotten about Greg Vaughn. I think with Helton the fans there are a lot more forgiving with him being a lifer in that organization and a general great guy , he's basically Sean Casey now days. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:19 AM Greg Vaughn was an OF, not a 1B, but same deal. He became worthless defensively. I remember my nephew -- now 12 -- being confused as a kid and calling them both "Gregmo Vaughn." Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 07:37 AM See, the Athletics have this theory of "Get guys who can hit and who can walk, and we'll find positions for them." The Yankees seem to have a corrupted version of that thinking though. That works at one level when you're populating the lineup with 21-22 year olds who may not be as gifted with the glove, but still have their youthful suppleness, their foot quickness, their healthy knees, their lean frames. Before this gets too homoerotic, I mean to say it's another thing entirely when you're gobbling these guys up six, seven, eight years into their careers, and they're drifting already towards the right side of the defensive spectrum. They've got a bunch of Xavier Nadys and nowhere to play them. Even if Teixiera doesn't deteriorate, he contributes to the logjam of everybody who does. I'd consider moving him back to third, Rodriguez to short, and Jeter to second. Then I'd dye my hair and move to Belgium. They can always keep bringing left field in, I suppose. DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:11 AM 8 years is a long time. For comparison's sake, look at who was on the Opening Day lineups for 1B men in 2000 and see how many of them you'd want starting this April. That's what the 2017 MFY are looking at. Great deal short-term, harder to justify long-term Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 09:18 AM You're point is strong, but that would be the 2002 starting lineups, wouldn't it? DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:22 AM Stoopid arithmetic Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 09:28 AM I'll do the NL East: Atlanta: BJ Surhoff Florida: Derrek Lee Montreal: Lee Stevens Philadelphia: Travis Lee New York: Mo Vaughn DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:37 AM AL East: Baltimore: Jeff Conine Boston: Tony Clark Tampa: Steve Cox Toronto: Carlos Delgado MFY: Jason Giambi TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:47 AM NL Central: St. Louis: Tino Martinez Houston: Jeff Bagwell Cincy: Sean Casey Pittsburgh: Kevin Young Chicago: Fred McGriff Milwaukee: Richie Sexson DocTee Dec 24 2008 09:52 AM NL West: Dodgers: Eric Karros Giants: JT Snow Rockies: Todd Helton Padres: Phil Nevin Diamondbacks: Mark Grace DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:01 AM AL West: Oakland: Carlos Pena Seattle: John Olerud Texas: Rafael Palmeiro LAA: Benji Gil AL Central: Chicago: Paul Konerko Cleveland: Jim Thome Detroit: Dmitri Young Kansas City: Mike Sweeney Minnesota: Doug Mientkiewicz Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 10:06 AM I'm not sure what this proves. Some of those first basemen might have been 35 years old and may have been a good choice for that particular season. It doesn't mean their team was planning on keeping them for eight years. If anything, we should see which of those guys was 29 (or younger) in 2002 and then see how viable they still are eight years later. (And anyway, if we're talking eight years shouldn't we be looking at 2001?) DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:08 AM That's thirty teams. Six guys (Delgado, Thome, Konerko, Derrek Lee, Pena, and Helton) who may start. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 10:30 AM Ben Grimm is right, but i'd look at more than just 2002 if we're narrowing the field to just 29 year olds. i would look at guys who were 28-30 and use a range like 1997-2001 then look 8 years forward on each guy Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 10:30 AM Yanx without real positions this year. Damon - Probably will play LF cuz he can no longer play the position he was hired for (CF). Contract up after the year. Matsui - Pushed to DH/bench by Damon being pushed to LF. Contract up after the year. Swisher - Lost position before he really had one. Maybe he's the CF (although he's not really very good there) or a still-young semi-expensive utility man under contract for at least two more years. Cabrera - If Swisher plays, he doesn't. And he doesn't hit enough to DH. Then there's the question about whether Posada can still catch and, if so, how often. And it also leaves no room to move Jeter - not that they were going to do that anyway. DocTee Dec 24 2008 10:36 AM ]I'm not sure what this proves. It proves that I would rather do anything other than finish grading papers on Christmas Eve. duh. metirish Dec 24 2008 10:38 AM Also what happens to Posada and first base , I guess they are stuck with him as a full time catcher. duan Dec 24 2008 12:10 PM core talent wise If you asked me to compare the following for their value over the next 3/4 years (when contracts start running out on either side!) Alex Rodriguez v David Wright. Even Derek Jeter v Jose Reyes. Reyes Mark Texiera v Carlos Beltran Even CC Sabathia v Johan Santana Even The 4 yankees have the highest contracts in baseball. We're doing ok in the big ticket areas, we just have to be sure our spoorting cast is better. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 12:37 PM Would you trade our four for their four, right now, for 2009? I wouldn't. metirish Dec 24 2008 12:39 PM Not a chance I would do that. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 12:54 PM ]we just have to be sure our spoorting cast is better. we need to "be sure" our roster is better than Philadelphia's, Atlanta's, etc. not the New York Yankees' roster. metsguyinmichigan Dec 24 2008 01:03 PM I would even say I'd take Santana over Sabbathia rather than call that one even! That would give us two -- and without the Jeter stench! Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:39 PM So, Nady's the one with a guaranteed job? Frayed Knot Dec 24 2008 02:18 PM Yanx lineup: - 1B: Highest paid 1st baseman, both currently and in the history of the game - 2B: 2nd highest paid active player (behind Utley) at the position - SS: Highest paid at the position in the history of the game - 3B: highest paid player [u:1kg25lk9]of any kind[/u:1kg25lk9] in the history of the game - C: Highest paid at the position in the history of the game - SP: Highest paid starter in the history of the game - RP: Highest paid reliever in the history of the game - The 4 largest contracts (total value) in the history of the game - Their 2008 Lux Tax bill was the same size as the Marlins payroll (which says something about both them and the Marlins). metirish Dec 24 2008 02:19 PM Incredible . Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 02:26 PM The Yankees really have to shore things up at second. Gwreck Dec 24 2008 10:19 PM ="seawolf17":3nh2omhf]Would you trade our four for their four, right now, for 2009? I wouldn't.[/quote:3nh2omhf] I wouldn't either. Maybe Texeira over Beltran...maybe. Beltran's defense at an impact position may still make Carlos more valuable, even if he doesn't have quite the same offensive production as Texeira. The other 3? Forget it. (Yes, even Rodriguez, if only for the baggage he brings). Ashie62 Dec 25 2008 10:02 AM Teixeira sponsorship on Baseball_Reference Somebody got to this quicky..A Yanqui smackdown on www.baseball-reference.com ... seawolf17 Dec 25 2008 12:08 PM ="Edgy DC":25bor5gt]The Yankees really have to shore things up at second.[/quote:25bor5gt] Someone send Hank Steinbrenner a 2005 baseball card of Luis Castillo, then have Omar call him and offer him Castillo for Nady and Cano. Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 10:54 AM And the last of the teams getting screwed by the Yanx signing Teixeira winds up being Milwaukee, plus, to a lesser extent, Toronto. With Sabathia, Burnett, & Teixeira all being Type-A FAs, obviously only one team can get the Yanx 1st round pick (mid-20s somewhere) in next June's draft. That team turns out to be the Angels based on Teixeira being the top-rated of all those FAs. Sabathia ranks next so the Brews get the Yanx 2nd rounder, while Toronto gets their 3rd round choice (probably up above pick #100) as compensation for losing Burnett. All three teams also get supplemental picks (in the same order I believe) after the end of the first round. So those Brew fans who consoled themselves by figuring they'd get a top-25 pick and a top-40 out of losing big CC wind up with one in the mid-60s or so to go along with the top-40. Oh well. Edgy DC Dec 26 2008 11:07 AM It would be maybe more coolio if maybe the second team who lost a type A to Team Y could get a pick right after the first team. Team Y, for their part, would sacrifice their first round pick for 2009 after signing the first, their first-round pick for 20010 after signing the second, etc. If Team Y is the Yankees, they'd be out first rounders up to 2051 by now, which would be such an abstraction to them, they'd care little, but they care little now anyhow, and at least the team losing their guy to the Yankees would get a prompt and fair (or more close to the intended fairness) compensation. The first year or two under this policy would lead to a bloated round one, but that would even out in subsequent years. metirish Dec 26 2008 11:24 AM Cashman is all about the farm , especially since he gained full control from the Tampa Rowdies a few years back.

Ha! I can't wait for them to collapse this season.

It's 1986, baby. FIGHT!

="Centerfield"]="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]It could mean the worst outfield in the history of o.b.b., at least defensively. Manny-Johnny-Nady... wow. Nope. That distinction belongs to any outfield featuring Roger Cedeno in centerfield. "Wait... what?"

Eff that. I'd bring Manny to Shea for two years and $50 million.

="batmagadanleadoff":j352pbz3]I always think of Jim Ray, who was lights out in the first Strat-O-Matic set I ever played (1971 season) -- 1.59 ERA+, 1.055 WHIP, yet only three Saves.[/quote:j352pbz3] Oh, Strat-O-Matic. I have to go home and play now. soupcan Dec 18 2008 12:22 PM ="seawolf17":3onzxze0]="soupcan":3onzxze0]RIP Joe Smith, thanks for the homerun![/quote:3onzxze0] He was traded, not killed.[/quote:3onzxze0] Oops! metsguyinmichigan Dec 18 2008 02:53 PM Interesting quotes from Flannery Former big leaguer Tim Flannery said Smith apparently died of a heart attack, but the official cause of death wasn�t known. �He�s gone. My tears are the rain,� Flannery, the San Francisco Giants third base coach, told The Associated Press. Flannery said services were pending, but added that he and other surfers plan to paddle out onto the Pacific Ocean to spread Smith�s ashes across the water. �That was what he asked. That is what surfers do,� Flannery said. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 03:01 PM Uh, Tim: Dave wanted his ashes in the ocean because he was a whale, not because he was a surfer, I'm pretty sure. Just. Kidding. themetfairy Dec 18 2008 03:41 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":6fgcixlc]Uh, Tim: Dave wanted his ashes in the ocean because he was a whale, not because he was a surfer, I'm pretty sure. Just. Kidding.[/quote:6fgcixlc] I'd chide you about being disrespectful of the dead, but for the fact that made me laugh.

Not Doug Jones. Todd Jones.

="soupcan":394iiirf]RIP Joe Smith, thanks for the homerun![/quote:394iiirf] He was traded, not killed. Edgy DC Dec 18 2008 08:52 AM ="seawolf17":92rbrty0]="Edgy DC":92rbrty0]OK, let's do this thing. In tribute to Dave Smith, name the top ten all-time Astro saviors.[/quote:92rbrty0] Smith Wagner Sambito Lidge Valverde Kerfeld (?)[/quote:92rbrty0] 1) Wagner 226 (9 points for Seawolf) 2) Smith 199 (9 more) 3) Lidge 123 (8 more) 4) 5) Sambito 72 (8 points for Seawolf) 6) 7) 8) Valverde 44 (7 Wolfpoints) 9) 10) T36) Kerfield 7 (-3 Points for Von Wolftrap) Wolfie on board with 38 points. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 09:01 AM Ken Forsch Bob Forsch Frank DiPino Doug Jones Claude Raymond DocTee Dec 18 2008 09:07 AM I'll go with some Metly connections: Dan Wheeler and Octavio Dotel. seawolf17 Dec 18 2008 09:17 AM Not Doug Jones. Todd Jones. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 09:32 AM I can't even keep my Forsch's stright. That's why I named both though I think Ken was the Astro, at least for the longer period. SteveJRogers Dec 18 2008 09:50 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 18 2008 09:50 AM . RMPL! John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 09:50 AM Brill. SteveJRogers Dec 18 2008 09:53 AM John Hudek? Well, he DID go to an ASG one year as an Astro rep. batmagadanleadoff Dec 18 2008 11:00 AM I always think of Jim Ray, who was lights out in the first Strat-O-Matic set I ever played (1971 season) -- 1.59 ERA+, 1.055 WHIP, yet only three Saves. Edgy DC Dec 18 2008 11:06 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Ken Forsch Bob Forsch Frank DiPino Doug Jones Claude Raymond 1) Wagner 226 2) Smith 199 3) Lidge 123 4) 5) Sambito 72 6) Doug Jones 62 (7 Bucketpoints) 7) Ken Forsch 50 (7 Bucketpoints) 8) Valverde 44 9) Frank DiPino 43 (8 Bucketpoints) 10) 15) Claude Raymond 26 (-3 Bucketpoints) Infinity) Bob Forsch 0 (-3 Bucketpoints) Bucket on board with 16 points. ="DocTee"]I'll go with some Metly connections: Dan Wheeler and Octavio Dotel. 1) Wagner 226 2) Smith 199 3) Lidge 123 4) 5) Sambito 72 6) Jones 62 7) Forsch 50 8) Valverde 44 9) DiPino 43 10) Octavio Dotel 42 (10 Points for DocTee) 18) Dan Wheeler 23 (-3 DocPoints) Seven points for DocTee ="seawolf17"]Not Doug Jones. Todd Jones. 11) Todd Jones 39 (-3 for the Wolfchild, bringing him down to 35) ="SteveJRogers"]John Hudek? Well, he DID go to an ASG one year as an Astro rep. Don't defend your answers. 13) Joh Hudek 29 (-3 for Steve) So here we be, and I honestly don't even recognize the name of number four. So good luck trying to guess the lost son of Dave Smith. 1) Wagner 226 2) Smith 199 3) Lidge 123 4) 5) Sambito 72 6) Jones 62 7) Forsch 50 8) Valverde 44 9) DiPino 43 10) Dotel 42 seawolf17 Dec 18 2008 11:06 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":j352pbz3]I always think of Jim Ray, who was lights out in the first Strat-O-Matic set I ever played (1971 season) -- 1.59 ERA+, 1.055 WHIP, yet only three Saves.[/quote:j352pbz3] Oh, Strat-O-Matic. I have to go home and play now. soupcan Dec 18 2008 12:22 PM ="seawolf17":3onzxze0]="soupcan":3onzxze0]RIP Joe Smith, thanks for the homerun![/quote:3onzxze0] He was traded, not killed.[/quote:3onzxze0] Oops! metsguyinmichigan Dec 18 2008 02:53 PM Interesting quotes from Flannery Former big leaguer Tim Flannery said Smith apparently died of a heart attack, but the official cause of death wasn�t known. �He�s gone. My tears are the rain,� Flannery, the San Francisco Giants third base coach, told The Associated Press. Flannery said services were pending, but added that he and other surfers plan to paddle out onto the Pacific Ocean to spread Smith�s ashes across the water. �That was what he asked. That is what surfers do,� Flannery said. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 03:01 PM Uh, Tim: Dave wanted his ashes in the ocean because he was a whale, not because he was a surfer, I'm pretty sure. Just. Kidding. themetfairy Dec 18 2008 03:41 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":6fgcixlc]Uh, Tim: Dave wanted his ashes in the ocean because he was a whale, not because he was a surfer, I'm pretty sure. Just. Kidding.[/quote:6fgcixlc] I'd chide you about being disrespectful of the dead, but for the fact that made me laugh.

="Edgy DC":2d2kldqy]OK, let's do this thing. In tribute to Dave Smith, name the top ten all-time Astro saviors.[/quote:2d2kldqy] Smith Wagner Sambito Lidge Valverde Kerfeld (?) seawolf17 Dec 18 2008 07:32 AM ="soupcan":394iiirf]RIP Joe Smith, thanks for the homerun![/quote:394iiirf] He was traded, not killed. Edgy DC Dec 18 2008 08:52 AM ="seawolf17":92rbrty0]="Edgy DC":92rbrty0]OK, let's do this thing. In tribute to Dave Smith, name the top ten all-time Astro saviors.[/quote:92rbrty0] Smith Wagner Sambito Lidge Valverde Kerfeld (?)[/quote:92rbrty0] 1) Wagner 226 (9 points for Seawolf) 2) Smith 199 (9 more) 3) Lidge 123 (8 more) 4) 5) Sambito 72 (8 points for Seawolf) 6) 7) 8) Valverde 44 (7 Wolfpoints) 9) 10) T36) Kerfield 7 (-3 Points for Von Wolftrap) Wolfie on board with 38 points. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 09:01 AM Ken Forsch Bob Forsch Frank DiPino Doug Jones Claude Raymond DocTee Dec 18 2008 09:07 AM I'll go with some Metly connections: Dan Wheeler and Octavio Dotel. seawolf17 Dec 18 2008 09:17 AM Not Doug Jones. Todd Jones. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 09:32 AM I can't even keep my Forsch's stright. That's why I named both though I think Ken was the Astro, at least for the longer period. SteveJRogers Dec 18 2008 09:50 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 18 2008 09:50 AM . RMPL! John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 09:50 AM Brill. SteveJRogers Dec 18 2008 09:53 AM John Hudek? Well, he DID go to an ASG one year as an Astro rep. batmagadanleadoff Dec 18 2008 11:00 AM I always think of Jim Ray, who was lights out in the first Strat-O-Matic set I ever played (1971 season) -- 1.59 ERA+, 1.055 WHIP, yet only three Saves. Edgy DC Dec 18 2008 11:06 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Ken Forsch Bob Forsch Frank DiPino Doug Jones Claude Raymond 1) Wagner 226 2) Smith 199 3) Lidge 123 4) 5) Sambito 72 6) Doug Jones 62 (7 Bucketpoints) 7) Ken Forsch 50 (7 Bucketpoints) 8) Valverde 44 9) Frank DiPino 43 (8 Bucketpoints) 10) 15) Claude Raymond 26 (-3 Bucketpoints) Infinity) Bob Forsch 0 (-3 Bucketpoints) Bucket on board with 16 points. ="DocTee"]I'll go with some Metly connections: Dan Wheeler and Octavio Dotel. 1) Wagner 226 2) Smith 199 3) Lidge 123 4) 5) Sambito 72 6) Jones 62 7) Forsch 50 8) Valverde 44 9) DiPino 43 10) Octavio Dotel 42 (10 Points for DocTee) 18) Dan Wheeler 23 (-3 DocPoints) Seven points for DocTee ="seawolf17"]Not Doug Jones. Todd Jones. 11) Todd Jones 39 (-3 for the Wolfchild, bringing him down to 35) ="SteveJRogers"]John Hudek? Well, he DID go to an ASG one year as an Astro rep. Don't defend your answers. 13) Joh Hudek 29 (-3 for Steve) So here we be, and I honestly don't even recognize the name of number four. So good luck trying to guess the lost son of Dave Smith. 1) Wagner 226 2) Smith 199 3) Lidge 123 4) 5) Sambito 72 6) Jones 62 7) Forsch 50 8) Valverde 44 9) DiPino 43 10) Dotel 42 seawolf17 Dec 18 2008 11:06 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":j352pbz3]I always think of Jim Ray, who was lights out in the first Strat-O-Matic set I ever played (1971 season) -- 1.59 ERA+, 1.055 WHIP, yet only three Saves.[/quote:j352pbz3] Oh, Strat-O-Matic. I have to go home and play now. soupcan Dec 18 2008 12:22 PM ="seawolf17":3onzxze0]="soupcan":3onzxze0]RIP Joe Smith, thanks for the homerun![/quote:3onzxze0] He was traded, not killed.[/quote:3onzxze0] Oops! metsguyinmichigan Dec 18 2008 02:53 PM Interesting quotes from Flannery Former big leaguer Tim Flannery said Smith apparently died of a heart attack, but the official cause of death wasn�t known. �He�s gone. My tears are the rain,� Flannery, the San Francisco Giants third base coach, told The Associated Press. Flannery said services were pending, but added that he and other surfers plan to paddle out onto the Pacific Ocean to spread Smith�s ashes across the water. �That was what he asked. That is what surfers do,� Flannery said. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 03:01 PM Uh, Tim: Dave wanted his ashes in the ocean because he was a whale, not because he was a surfer, I'm pretty sure. Just. Kidding. themetfairy Dec 18 2008 03:41 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":6fgcixlc]Uh, Tim: Dave wanted his ashes in the ocean because he was a whale, not because he was a surfer, I'm pretty sure. Just. Kidding.[/quote:6fgcixlc] I'd chide you about being disrespectful of the dead, but for the fact that made me laugh.

="HahnSolo":u9j3osuh]Actually, Joe, when I think of Astros closers I do not think of you. Seems like a wrong way to inject yourself into a conversation or story. Joe Sambito, bad fit.[/quote:u9j3osuh] Yeah, really. Dick move, Joe. Edgy DC Dec 18 2008 07:17 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 18 2008 07:22 AM OK, let's do this thing. In tribute to Dave Smith, name the top ten all-time Astro saviors. soupcan Dec 18 2008 07:19 AM ="HahnSolo"] Actually, Joe, when I think of Astros closers I do not think of you. Seems like a wrong way to inject yourself into a conversation or story. Joe Sambito, bad fit. Thought the same thing when I read that. ="HahnSolo"]What I recall about Smith that year is that he was pretty light's out against everybody, but the Mets hit him well, and not only that, thought they could hit him if they brought him in. I had cahnfidence going into the 9th inning of Game 3. I remember that those Mets hit everybody's bullpen well. If they were behind in a game and the starter left - you knew they would come back. RIP Joe Smith, thanks for the homerun! seawolf17 Dec 18 2008 07:32 AM ="Edgy DC":2d2kldqy]OK, let's do this thing. In tribute to Dave Smith, name the top ten all-time Astro saviors.[/quote:2d2kldqy] Smith Wagner Sambito Lidge Valverde Kerfeld (?) seawolf17 Dec 18 2008 07:32 AM ="soupcan":394iiirf]RIP Joe Smith, thanks for the homerun![/quote:394iiirf] He was traded, not killed. Edgy DC Dec 18 2008 08:52 AM ="seawolf17":92rbrty0]="Edgy DC":92rbrty0]OK, let's do this thing. In tribute to Dave Smith, name the top ten all-time Astro saviors.[/quote:92rbrty0] Smith Wagner Sambito Lidge Valverde Kerfeld (?)[/quote:92rbrty0] 1) Wagner 226 (9 points for Seawolf) 2) Smith 199 (9 more) 3) Lidge 123 (8 more) 4) 5) Sambito 72 (8 points for Seawolf) 6) 7) 8) Valverde 44 (7 Wolfpoints) 9) 10) T36) Kerfield 7 (-3 Points for Von Wolftrap) Wolfie on board with 38 points. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 09:01 AM Ken Forsch Bob Forsch Frank DiPino Doug Jones Claude Raymond DocTee Dec 18 2008 09:07 AM I'll go with some Metly connections: Dan Wheeler and Octavio Dotel. seawolf17 Dec 18 2008 09:17 AM Not Doug Jones. Todd Jones. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 09:32 AM I can't even keep my Forsch's stright. That's why I named both though I think Ken was the Astro, at least for the longer period. SteveJRogers Dec 18 2008 09:50 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 18 2008 09:50 AM . RMPL! John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 09:50 AM Brill. SteveJRogers Dec 18 2008 09:53 AM John Hudek? Well, he DID go to an ASG one year as an Astro rep. batmagadanleadoff Dec 18 2008 11:00 AM I always think of Jim Ray, who was lights out in the first Strat-O-Matic set I ever played (1971 season) -- 1.59 ERA+, 1.055 WHIP, yet only three Saves. Edgy DC Dec 18 2008 11:06 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Ken Forsch Bob Forsch Frank DiPino Doug Jones Claude Raymond 1) Wagner 226 2) Smith 199 3) Lidge 123 4) 5) Sambito 72 6) Doug Jones 62 (7 Bucketpoints) 7) Ken Forsch 50 (7 Bucketpoints) 8) Valverde 44 9) Frank DiPino 43 (8 Bucketpoints) 10) 15) Claude Raymond 26 (-3 Bucketpoints) Infinity) Bob Forsch 0 (-3 Bucketpoints) Bucket on board with 16 points. ="DocTee"]I'll go with some Metly connections: Dan Wheeler and Octavio Dotel. 1) Wagner 226 2) Smith 199 3) Lidge 123 4) 5) Sambito 72 6) Jones 62 7) Forsch 50 8) Valverde 44 9) DiPino 43 10) Octavio Dotel 42 (10 Points for DocTee) 18) Dan Wheeler 23 (-3 DocPoints) Seven points for DocTee ="seawolf17"]Not Doug Jones. Todd Jones. 11) Todd Jones 39 (-3 for the Wolfchild, bringing him down to 35) ="SteveJRogers"]John Hudek? Well, he DID go to an ASG one year as an Astro rep. Don't defend your answers. 13) Joh Hudek 29 (-3 for Steve) So here we be, and I honestly don't even recognize the name of number four. So good luck trying to guess the lost son of Dave Smith. 1) Wagner 226 2) Smith 199 3) Lidge 123 4) 5) Sambito 72 6) Jones 62 7) Forsch 50 8) Valverde 44 9) DiPino 43 10) Dotel 42 seawolf17 Dec 18 2008 11:06 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":j352pbz3]I always think of Jim Ray, who was lights out in the first Strat-O-Matic set I ever played (1971 season) -- 1.59 ERA+, 1.055 WHIP, yet only three Saves.[/quote:j352pbz3] Oh, Strat-O-Matic. I have to go home and play now. soupcan Dec 18 2008 12:22 PM ="seawolf17":3onzxze0]="soupcan":3onzxze0]RIP Joe Smith, thanks for the homerun![/quote:3onzxze0] He was traded, not killed.[/quote:3onzxze0] Oops! metsguyinmichigan Dec 18 2008 02:53 PM Interesting quotes from Flannery Former big leaguer Tim Flannery said Smith apparently died of a heart attack, but the official cause of death wasn�t known. �He�s gone. My tears are the rain,� Flannery, the San Francisco Giants third base coach, told The Associated Press. Flannery said services were pending, but added that he and other surfers plan to paddle out onto the Pacific Ocean to spread Smith�s ashes across the water. �That was what he asked. That is what surfers do,� Flannery said. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2008 03:01 PM Uh, Tim: Dave wanted his ashes in the ocean because he was a whale, not because he was a surfer, I'm pretty sure. Just. Kidding. themetfairy Dec 18 2008 03:41 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":6fgcixlc]Uh, Tim: Dave wanted his ashes in the ocean because he was a whale, not because he was a surfer, I'm pretty sure. Just. Kidding.[/quote:6fgcixlc] I'd chide you about being disrespectful of the dead, but for the fact that made me laugh.

="A Boy Named Seo":20g5adgv]I still would like to see Ollie, Sheets, Niese, and as many non-roster scrubs as they can stitch uniforms for.[/quote:20g5adgv] /starts throwing long toss /starts developing knuckleball A Boy Named Seo Dec 17 2008 12:48 PM And Seawolf and Dennis Springer. metsmarathon Dec 17 2008 01:23 PM or that japanese chick! MFS62 Dec 17 2008 07:06 PM John Maine Interview: http://www.wfan.com/pages/744514.php Later Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 06:36 AM Today's buzz has the Mets becoming serious about negotiating with Lowe. While I do like the idea of getting a pitcher who'll be the Number 2 guy (as opposed to a Number 4 guy) I'm concerned that Lowe will be too old and expensive. Especially if he ends up with a five-year deal. I think I'd rather seem them put that money towards Randy Wolf and Orlando Hudson. seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 07:20 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 07:51 AM good idea, i say we make the hot bimbo the banner on top of the forum! Bunt the First Two Dec 24 2008 08:15 AM If you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Christmas eve is here today And Christmas should be jolly Ollie can be widely variant But Lowe's an obnoxious wiener And I know what Keith and Gary meant When they praised young Ollie's demeanor So, I'm clinging to the familiar And I fear the enemy hireling You may find my perspective sillier My wife does; as does my sireling Lowe's not alone in adulte-ray To think so would be rank folly But if you're going to overpay Overpay for Ollie Joyeux No�l Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 08:21 AM How is it possible that Bunt the First Two, who's been here for three and a half years, only has 9 posts? (And a very nice avatar, by the way.) seawolf17 Dec 24 2008 08:38 AM I thought BtF2 was someone's nym. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 10:53 AM Metsblog linking to The Boston Globe[/url:a9uzs6db] reports that the Mets are close to a 3-4 deal with Lowe for 14-16 Mil per. metirish Dec 24 2008 11:06 AM Could we not sign Perez for that money? Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:07 AM I have to confess that I don't know much about Lowe, but I'm so done with Oliver Perez. Benjamin Grimm Dec 24 2008 11:16 AM Just in case this is true, here's a tidbit from Wikipedia for the Wifey Watch: ]On August 3, 2005, FSN West in Los Angeles announced that "Dodger Dugout" anchor Carolyn Hughes had been suspended pending an investigation into a potential relationship between her and Lowe. Shortly thereafter, the pitcher filed for divorce from his wife of seven years, Trinka Lowe, with whom he fathered two children. Hughes' husband had also filed for divorce and, as of early 2006, Lowe and Hughes were living together. Lowe and Hughes were married on December 13, 2008 at The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan. TransMonk Dec 24 2008 11:21 AM ="metirish":20spwfpg]Could we not sign Perez for that money?[/quote:20spwfpg] Maybe, but Lowe's more of a sure thing than Perez IMO (at least for 2009-10). Perez is younger and a lefty, but Lowe has averaged 200 IPs with a mid 3 ERA for the past 4 years. He won't K as many batters as Perez, but he will also walk about half as many. The problem with Lowe is that he will turn 36 this year....so by the end of the contract he will be 40ish. But you can't argue with his consistency. Nymr83 Dec 24 2008 01:06 PM A 4 year contract to Lowe now could easily turn into the equivalent of the 4 year deal given to Glavine at age 36 following the 2002 season. Glavine's ERA+ the 4 years before the Mets contract: 109, 135, 125, 140 Lowe's ERA+ the past 4 years: 114, 124, 118, 131 Glavine IPs: 234, 241, 219, 224 Lowe's IPs: 222, 218, 199, 211 Glavine's ERA+ the first 4 years with the Mets: 93, 119, 116, 114 Glavine IP the first 4 years with the Mets: 183, 212, 211, 198 They're pretty similiar pitchers and Lowe is around the same place in his career now that Glavine was when he became a Met (though he was probably a bit better then than Lowe is now.) Were you happy with how that 4 year contract to Glavine turned out? A Boy Named Seo Dec 24 2008 01:23 PM I thought of Glavine this morning when I read the Mets were maybe close on Lowe. I like Lowe and I think he'd be fine, but don't want him instead of Ollie. I want him along with Ollie. Edgy DC Dec 24 2008 01:58 PM Glavine didn't become fat until his second year he was with the Mets. Lowe = already fat. Oliver Perez is the way to go. MFS62 Dec 24 2008 07:07 PM According to a report on WFAN (or was it ESPN radio?) tonight, the Mets are one of three teams still negotiating for Lowe. Later John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 24 2008 08:29 PM I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game? TransMonk Dec 24 2008 09:10 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2k22o8do]I'd prefer Ollie if we only got one of them, too. I'm not a Lowe hater, necessarily, tho I do recall the Mets beating the crap out of him once in '07. Anyone remember that game?[/quote:2k22o8do] Yup...and Glavine got his ass kicked about as badly in this game too.[/url:2k22o8do] Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 25 2008 10:46 AM Derek Lowe for Christmas? ESPN says no. ]ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports the Mets ARE NOT close to a deal with free agent pitcher Derek Lowe. Sources tell Olney the Mets HAVE NOT made an offer to Lowe...and are still seriously considering free agent pitchers Randy Wolf and Oliver Perez., among other pitching options. The Boston Globe reported the Mets would offer Lowe $14-16 million per season. Lowe just finished up a four year deal, $36 million deal with the Dodgers. Newsday also says no. It seems they are speaking, though. ="Kat O'Brien"]"We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Maybe for Boxing Day? Edgy DC Dec 25 2008 05:52 PM Nowe Lowe! Frayed Knot Dec 26 2008 07:14 AM Newsday: The Mets continue to try to sign one more starting pitcher, but general manager Omar Minaya said nothing is imminent. "We're talking, we're having discussions, but nothing's going to happen in the next day or two," Minaya said by phone Wednesday afternoon. Several reports online had the Mets close to agreement on a four-year deal with righthander Derek Lowe. Minaya said Lowe is just one of several pitchers the Mets are in negotiations with, along with Oliver Perez and Randy Wolf. The Mets stand a strong chance of eventually signing one of those three starters. Minaya said it wouldn't happen in the immediate future, though, urging: "Go enjoy the holiday." Benjamin Grimm Dec 27 2008 05:11 PM ="Buster Olney":1q35kutm]There are other market forces in play now. The Mets would like a starting pitcher, but just as they ascertained before delving into the bidding for a closer, they realize that they might be the only team ready to give out a sizable multiyear contract for a starting pitcher -- especially in the aftermath of the Yankees' signing of Mark Teixeira, which is likely to compel the Bombers to fill the last spot in their rotation with a youngster. The Mets have surveyed the rest of the market, and they see that the Cardinals are not ready to hand out a massive deal for a starter, nor are the Milwaukee Brewers or the Dodgers. The Braves have money to spend but have reportedly determined that they are not interested in signing Derek Lowe. So the Mets can sit back and pluck the best of the starting pitchers, at their price, just as they did with K-Rod; in this case, their choices are likely (1) Oliver Perez, (2) Lowe or (3) Randy Wolf. Heck, the Mets might find themselves in a position to take advantage of a two-for-one sale. That is how far the prices have been depressed. The Mets will be patient, writes Mike Puma. [/quote:1q35kutm] Nymr83 Dec 28 2008 12:35 AM sounds good to me, lets see what happens Rockin' Doc Dec 28 2008 07:13 AM Damn, I knew this day would come. This thread has finally turned the page and now the mysterious honeydew smuggler has gotten away. It's a sad day I tell you. Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2008 07:19 AM ="seawolf17"]="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I just wanted to make sure she was at the top of page 3 of the thread also. Centerfield Dec 28 2008 09:47 PM Ken Rosenthal reporting that the Red Sox are close to signing Brad Penny. You'd have to think this bodes well for us on the Lowe front. metirish Dec 30 2008 09:01 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Her husband just got charged with assault and affray after spending the last 24 hours in jail following a beating of a DJ in a pub after Liverpool FC beat Newcastle Sunday. Gerrard along with five others got arrested in the early hours Monday morning after allegedly beating the DJ up , apparently the DJ wouldn't let Gerrard spin his favorite tunes. His favorite singer is Phil fucking Collins , hard to blame the DJ on that. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 09:39 AM Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 09:43 AM Beating up a DJ is like the guy who shot someone in a movie theatre the other day for yapping too much: either may be justifiable depending on the specifics. John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 09:47 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. Wait, what? Edgy DC Dec 30 2008 10:02 AM I heard the guy beat up the DJ after he played Jay-Z's new joint, "The Riddler Got Some Titties." VC Firecracker, meanwhile, just made the Oddest Stories of the Year list. Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 30 2008 10:07 AM Sorry, I just always think of Patrick Bateman when I hear that someone likes Phil Collins. Or Huey Lewis. metirish Dec 30 2008 10:16 AM ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Phil Collins' solo efforts seem to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially No Jacket Required and songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds" (though that song was overshadowed by the masterful movie from which it came) and "Take Me Home" and "Sussudio" (great, great song; a personal favorite) and his remake of "You Can't Hurry Love," which I'm not alone in thinking is better than the Supremes' original. But I also think that Phil Collins works better within the confines of the group than as a solo artist- and I stress the word artist. In fact it applies to all three of the guys, because Genesis is still the best, most exciting band to come out of England in the 1980s. In the article I read which I can't be bothered to look for it mentioned that his favorite album ever is Phil Collins "Hits" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hits_(Phil_Collins_album) Centerfield Dec 30 2008 07:30 PM Three year, $36 million offer to Lowe says Tom Singer at Mets.com. It cites a Times report but I couldn't find the article. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081230&content_id=3730397&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 30 2008 07:38 PM ]Mets Offer Lowe a Deal: 3 Years and $36 Million By JACK CURRY Published: December 30, 2008 After methodically studying the starting pitchers left on the free-agent market, the Mets have determined that Derek Lowe would be the best addition to their club. The Mets have shown that by offering Lowe a three-year contract for about $36 million, according to people who have been briefed on the discussions. As the Mets try to add a reliable starter, they have marked Lowe as their priority over Oliver P�rez, who has pitched for them since 2006. Lowe, a durable pitcher with a superb sinker, was 14-11 with a 3.24 earned run average for the Los Angeles Dodgers last season. Scott Boras, the agent who represents Lowe and P�rez, would not comment specifically about the Mets� offer to Lowe. But he said, �Obviously, we�ve taken offers from a number of teams.� Boras also said he was still talking to teams and was in the process of establishing Lowe�s value. Lowe is believed to be seeking a five-year, $90 million deal. The Mets do not want to offer Lowe more than three guaranteed years, so if he holds firm in his pursuit of five years, he may not be close to signing. Lowe, who turns 36 in June, has averaged more than 200 innings and 15 wins the last seven seasons. When the Mets pursued the free agent Francisco Rodr�guez, they benefited from being one of the only teams willing to spend for a closer. Before the season ended, there was speculation that Rodr�guez would receive a $75 million deal. The Mets signed Rodr�guez for about half that, giving him a three-year, $37 million deal. The Mets are hoping the same happens with Lowe, and that he eventually falls to them for less than the $18 million a year he is seeking. Boras would not say how many teams had made offers to Lowe, but he said there were more teams involved in talks with Lowe than a week ago. Boras will probably remind teams that Ryan Dempster, a converted closer who had a stellar year as a starter with 17 victories, received a four-year, $52 million deal from the Chicago Cubs last month. The Mets have emerged as the favorites to sign Lowe, but the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies have also expressed interest. It is unclear if either team would outbid the Mets or offer more than three years. Lowe pitched for the Red Sox from 1997 to 2004 and has spoken about his desire to return to Boston. If the Mets are unable to sign Lowe, they will pursue P�rez, who was 10-7 with a 4.22 E.R.A. They may also go after Randy Wolf, who, like P�rez, is left-handed. Wolf was 12-12 with a 4.30 E.R.A. for the San Diego Padres and the Houston Astros. But by making their first offer to Lowe, the Mets have told him and Boras that Lowe is the pitcher they would prefer. Before that can happen, the Mets and Boras need to agree on Lowe�s value. Frayed Knot Dec 30 2008 07:46 PM Beats the hell out of both the asking price (5x$18) and the widely rumored price (4x$15). Maybe we wind up getting trumped here, but I'd have trouble going more than 3 years. Guess that's what they mean by 'Going Lowe' on a bid. Rockin' Doc Dec 30 2008 08:30 PM The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times. Nymr83 Dec 30 2008 09:16 PM ="Rockin' Doc":sf7zf4o4]The Mets should give Lowe and Borass a few days to respond, then if they don't get a response that looks favorable they should offer Oliver Perez an offer in the neighborhood of 4 years for $36 mil. and tell Boras that the first accept will get the one rotation slot available. I would love to see a few of Boras' high profile clients get stuck because of his blustering and posturing. I believe Manny Ramirez just may be the one to lose big because of Boras overplaying his hand in these difficult financial times.[/quote:sf7zf4o4] i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients. MFS62 Dec 31 2008 06:42 AM Now we're going to find out if Omar has friends in Lowe places. Later Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 07:15 AM ="Nymr83":jqmfi9t3]i would love to play Boras' clients against each other by making reasonable offers to both pitchers and say its first come first served. this puts Boras in a position where he can't do right by both clients.[/quote:jqmfi9t3] Well, he can advise them both to hold out for more. I'm not saying it'll work, but he's got a corner of the market by holding the best two remaining pitchers. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 07:19 AM I notice the article says the Mets don't want to guarantee more than three years. My prediction: They'll sign him to a deal that guarantees $39 million over three years, with a clause that gets him a fourth year (at another $13 million) based on some innings pitched criteria. An article in the Daily News this morning said that the Mets were the lone remaining suitor. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is Boras will, of course, try to get them to bid against the mysterious phantom team. metirish Dec 31 2008 07:23 AM Thankfully Minaya is't Cashman who at this point with no other suitors would sweeten the pot by at least $60 million. soupcan Dec 31 2008 07:50 AM I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen. We all thought the A-Rod opt-out would backfire and that certainly did not. Boras turned that around from a disaster to friggin' no-holds barrred success. Boras is a smart guy - he knows exactly what he is doing and always gets the most for his clients. As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:03 AM I'm perfectly happy seeing Boras clients walk off with all the money they can get --- as long as my team drives a harder bargain than everybody else's. He got the Yankees to bid against themselves to pay Alex Rodriguez more, even though everybody hates the guy? I applaud him. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 08:09 AM ="soupcan":388olj2s]I'd love to see Boras get his comeuppance as well but it just doesn't happen.[/quote:388olj2s] It does occasionally. A couple years back he was telling anyone who would listen that he had a multiple 5-year offers for Kenvin Millwood at something like $15 per. Millwood eventually settled for a one-year arbitration settlement for around $10 or so. And there have been others as well - usually with smaller/mid-range clients. It's the big boys who generate most of the publicity and those are the ones he hits on - but, of course, it's a lot easier when you've got the goods. What remains to be seen here is whether this year is going to be a downward trend after several years of rapidly rising salaries like happened a few years ago following the 1999-2001 spending boom. So far the only player for whom there was a serious bidding war was Teixeira. Sabathia certainly got a chunk of change but it's not clear whether than was necessary, and guys like F Rodriguez got a whole lot less than what was suspected even 2-3 months ago. Centerfield Dec 31 2008 08:24 AM ="soupcan":1gdt0nu9]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy.[/quote:1gdt0nu9] Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? metsmarathon Dec 31 2008 08:41 AM i only hate him when players i want the mets to get have him as their agent, and that drags out the process of signing said player, and typically means that, if we do get said player, its at a higher cost and because we offered the most money (as opposed to the fictional world i wish to live in where free agents choose the mets not for the most money but because they're the awesomest destination, and do so cheaply and before christmas). soupcan Dec 31 2008 08:45 AM ="Centerfield"]="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 08:50 AM ="soupcan":f7bp71p6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:f7bp71p6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise Centerfield Dec 31 2008 09:08 AM ="soupcan"]="Centerfield"]="soupcan"]As a fan I hate him, but if I were an athlete he'd be my guy. Why do you hate him as a fan? As an owner or GM, he might be the scum of the earth, but do fans really have a rooting interest in negotiations between player and team? I suppose its not him I hate but rather the escalating salaries that continue to move the players and the game farther away from the fan. As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game. So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game. Benjamin Grimm Dec 31 2008 09:14 AM One reason not to like Boras: He represents Mike Pelfrey. If Pelfrey continues to develop into the pitcher we'd like him to be, we have little to no hope that he'll sign a contract like Wright and Reyes did. He'll do the arbitration thing each year that he can, and then he'll test the market. It makes it just a teeny bit harder to get attached to a home-grown player. attgig Dec 31 2008 10:29 AM ="Edgy DC":6u8g9kac]="soupcan":6u8g9kac]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:6u8g9kac] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:6u8g9kac] not only demand, but supply. all these new ballparks have less seats. friggin owners. BUT, I would love to see how ticket prices changed from before Free Agency to the early nineties (when contracts started going into the millions). soupcan Dec 31 2008 10:58 AM ="Edgy DC":2ijnmyx6]="soupcan":2ijnmyx6]As a fan though - the higher the salary, the higher the operating costs of the team, the higher the cost of watching or going to a game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't believe that for a minute. Prices are driven by demand, not by salary expenses. Don't let the owners convince you otherwise[/quote:2ijnmyx6] I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor. ="Centerfield":2ijnmyx6]So you're saying you don't hate the playa, you hate the game.[/quote:2ijnmyx6] Word. Edgy DC Dec 31 2008 11:14 AM ="soupcan":osy3ctu2]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:osy3ctu2] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable. soupcan Dec 31 2008 11:29 AM ="Edgy DC":r44vyrx7]="soupcan":r44vyrx7]I don't mean to say that salaries are the only thing but they are a significant contributing factor.[/quote:r44vyrx7] I don't think they mean a thing. All the restraints of a salary cap haven't made basketball and football tickets any more affordable.[/quote:r44vyrx7] It's not like their salary caps have kept those other sports salaries low either though. Frayed Knot Dec 31 2008 12:07 PM Not low, but lower than they'd be under a true open market -- and yet the NFL with its hard cap and often elusive FA system has still managed to be the sport to virtually invent and exploit things like seat licensing and mandatory pre-season buys.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1596/199/116/672155021/n672155021_5092687_484.jpg

Let me host it somewhere else, not in my personal photobucket. I'll re-post the link.

="Frayed Knot":379v5mwy]="Edgy DC":379v5mwy]The park will be called Coca-Cola Field ...[/quote:379v5mwy] NIckname = 'The Coke Den'[/quote:379v5mwy] I'm trying to make a joke about them hiring Doc as a pitching coach, but it's not there. Farmer Ted Dec 17 2008 02:32 PM They broke out the new logo and I'd be a bit peeved if I was from Buffalo to see the NYC skyline. http://buffalo.bisons.milb.com/images/2008/12/16/ZMxGVjXR.jpg I still have a problem with the S on Bisons.

Sweet. Can you link my blog in there? (http://sbuchris.blogspot.com) I posted about Jason's post this morning.

Interesting. I hope it's part of the regular package. I'll check tonight.

Merch available starting tomorrow.

I don't know who that is, but wow, that's a lecherous look from the dude in the car. I like Redding a lot -- he's a Rochester guy -- but bleh on him joining the Mets, except as a Tony Armas-type emergency guy.

Ha! No, it's way more obscure than that. We all (all of them and I) share a birthday.

The orange paint actually came with the house, which was nice. A few more of my autograph frames: Recent Mets: 1986/1988 Mets: Old School Mets: What do these guys have in common?

I figured I'd repost this here so it doesn't get lost in the "first" thread, and so we can save it for posterity. My first major league game, and all the participants therein, in autographed baseball card form.