metsmarathon

does the situation improve if we look at OPS+? i mean, prolly not by much, but it could make for an ever so slightly rosier picture.

you're right. i did that across the board for anyone who got kerry wood right, it seems.

i heard/read the same thing as smg, though i cannot recall the source. so there go.

mmm... maypo... more lasting milledge please! where's the lastings milledge? mill... ings.... edge... edge... mill... last.... last... ings... mill.... edge....

naturally, i prefer the more weasely way around the teambuilding thing. build a strong character team such that you can add in a troubled soul and it will not tear the team apart but might actually inspire more greatness out of the player. basically, what the patriots are doing with randy moss.

sorry. source for stats, espn.com. i only looked at green's 06 total, not his metly split, though i think they were rather similar. clicked on teh right fielder position then summed the totals for the 40-odd players that showed up. then did hte necessary math to get the league RF average. i admit that i simplified obp into (H+BB)/(AB+BB), mostly due to laziness and not some inherent need to mislead and/or draw false conclusions.

]To me, the real fun lies in seeing kids develop into stars, and the real pain lies in seeing them do it for other teams. ...says the man who would have traded david wright to the marlins but that's besides the point. relative to this thread, not every trade can be made with a long view. sometimes you need to make a move to trade off potential future production for more certain present production. not that this justifies teh milledge trade - it doesn't, and i'll need to hear a lot more bad things about milledge's value in the eyes of other teams and see him fail to develop in washington before that can even begin to happen - but it does lend itself towards the green trade. evan maclane doesn't look like anything, and he netted the mets an improvement in right field that i would think helped stabilize the offense at the expense of lastings milledge who was not yet ready to produce daily on a competitive baseball team. oh, shawn green's 2006 OPS was 0.776. the average nl right fielder's ops was 0.775. this year, 0.782 for green, 0.795 for the nl average.

well, i'm easily confused.

Player old new edgy cougar Grimm smg nymr sharpie DocTee mm mgim attgig 1. Armando Benitez (FLA) RP FLA TOR PHI DET CIN FLA KCR PHI CHC STL HOU 2. Kris Benson (BAL) SP BAL STL PHI PHI BAL PIT CIN COL WAS KCR SFG 3. Barry Bonds (SFG) LF SFG CHW WAS NYY OAK Ret TEX TEX TEX Ret AK 4. Milton Bradley (SDP) LF SDP TEX WAS BAL SDP SDP SDP SDP BAL TEX SDP 5. Mike Cameron (SDP) CF SDP BOS HOU SEA MIN PHI ATL NYY MIN SDP SDP 6. Luis Castillo (NYM) 2B NYM NYM NYM NYM NYM NYM NYM NYM NYM NYM NYM SDP 7. Ramon Castro (NYM) C NYM NYM CHC NYM NYM NYM NYM COL COL COL NYM NYM 8. Roger Clemens (NYY) SP NYY Ret Ret uns Ret Ret Ret Ret Ret Ret Ret 9. Bartolo Colon (LAA) SP LAA CIN LAA SFG NYM LAA WAS TEX SDP LAA NYM 10. Francisco Cordero (MIL) RP MIL CIN STL NYY MIL MIL MIL MIL MIL HOU MIL BAL 11. David Eckstein (STL) SS STL STL STL CHC STL STL BAL BAL TBR STL HOU 12. Pedro Feliz (SFG) 3B SFG NYY KCR SFG uns NYY MIN SFG NYY SFG PHI 13. Cliff Floyd (CHC) RF CHC FLA FLA FLA uns SFG FLA Ret TBR FLA KCR 14. Josh Fogg (COL) SP COL NYM CIN COL COL COL COL COL PHI COL TBR 15. Eric Gagne (BOS) RP BOS NYY NYM LAD PIT NYM TEX CIN SFG LAD BAL 16. Freddy Garcia (PHI) SP PHI BAL NYM TBR KCR CLE NYM CIN ARI PHI BAL 17. Tom Glavine (NYM) SP NYM ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL ATL 18. Livan Hernandez (ARI) SP ARI NYM FLA CHW WAS TEX SEA SEA LAA NYM PIT 19. Torii Hunter (MIN) CF MIN LAA ARI NYY CHC NYY NYY TEX TEX SFG TEX BAL 20. Geoff Jenkins (MIL) LF MIL HOU ARI ATL SDP SFG LAD SFG ATL BAL MIL 21. Jason Jennings (HOU) SP HOU MIL NYM HOU COL --- CIN NYM COL NYM ATL 22. Andruw Jones (ATL) CF ATL LA?D HOU SDP LAD ATL BOS CHW LAA STL MIN 23. Paul Lo Duca (NYM) C NYM WAS SFG COL NYM COL CHC NYM NYM NYM COL 24. Kenny Lofton (CLE) CF CLE ATL CLE HOU ATL Ret CLE ATL LAD CLE ATL 25. Kyle Lohse (PHI) SP PHI CHC PHI PHI MIN PIT MIL PHI SEA CIN ATL 26. Kazuo Matsui (COL) 2B COL COL COL COL COL SFG CHC COL CHW HOU COL 27. Andy Pettitte (NYY) SP NYY PHI HOU NYY NYY NYY NYY TEX LAD NYY NYY 28. Odaliz Perez (KCR) SP KCR SEA mnl LAD ATL NYM LAA KCR PHI KCR ARI 29. Mike Piazza (OAK) DH OAK SEA OAK LAA MIN TEX MIN LAA OAK BAL TEX 30. Jorge Posada (NYY) C NYY NYY NYY NYY NYY NYY NYM NYY COL NYY NYY NYY 31. Mariano Rivera (NYY) RP NYY NYY NYY NYY NYY NYY NYY NYY NYY NYY NYY PHI 32. JC Romero (PHI) RP PHI NYM PHI NYM BOS LAD PHI SEA MIL NYY PHI 33. Alex Rodriguez (NYY) 3B NYY CHC NYM LAD FLA CHC LAD CHC NYM LAA LAD 34. Aaron Rowand (PHI) CF PHI PHI HOU PHI PHI CLE SDP NYY ATL CHW ATL 35. Carlos Silva (MIN) SP MIN KCR NYM HOU MIN MIN NYM COL STL MIN BAL 36. Sammy Sosa (TEX) DH TEX KCR mnl uns TEX Ret TBR CHW Ret TBR TBR 37. Yorvit Torrealba (COL) C COL NYM COL NYM COL NYY NYM NYW NYM COL HOU 38. Steve Trachsel (BAL) SP BAL SDP mnl uns BAL TBR CIN COL PIT KCR ATL 39. Luis Vizcaino (NYY) RP NYY JAP PHI NYY TOR NYY PIT LAD SFG NYY PIT 40. Kerry Wood (CHC) RP CHC CHC LAD TEX NYY NYY CHC CHC NYM NYM CHC MIN Total Correct --- 7 3 4 4 4 5 4 3 3 5 2 edit: fixed to address below concern.

edgy has his own little bit of confusion in his guesses: 22. Andruw Jones (ATL) CF Los Angeles written all over him.

can't think of good examples, other than, of course, pitchers. though any metric that shows dwright's 07 to be worth half of rollins', or hanley ramirez & pujols' 2007 to be worth a mere 7th of rollins can't be too good... i am curious of course as to how it does historically for current hall of famers.

only problem that i have with the mvp vote is that, as we've seen, those votes can get distributed for wacky and unjust reasons.

the only hope i can see in this is that somehow, brian schneider is a player that can be sent to baltimore along with some actually good players, in exchange for ramon hernandez and eric bedard. or that the a's might also be interested in some sort of catcher to help their team, along with those same good players, in echange for dan haren. elsewise, this is dumb dumb dumb.

seawolf17 wrote: I don't know how to do html tables. Drives me kooky. 1. make table in excel. 2. insert extra columns 3. insert needed code in extra rows 4. copy 5. paste into thread 6. delete unneeded line breaks and tabs 7. enjoy!

i haven't looked at the pitchers yet but here's my ranking of this year's class, with some numbers: career WARP3, 5yr max WARP3, the product thereof, HOF percentile, and nearest analog name career max5 c x 5 %-ile analog raines 132.5 52.5 6956.25 80% foxx trammell 123.2 51.1 6295.52 74% bench mcgwire 110.3 47.2 5206.16 60% doerr concepcion 106.3 46.9 4985.47 54% ashburn dawson 110.8 42.2 4675.76 50% hartnett mattingly 90.2 50.3 4537.06 47% puckett baines 102.5 36.7 3761.75 30% maranville murphy 85.5 42.5 3633.75 29% cepeda parker 85.6 41.4 3543.84 28% lazzeri rice 88.2 37.3 3289.86 24% killebrew knoblauch 74.1 44.2 3275.22 23% campanella fryman 74.4 42.6 3169.44 21% doby anderson 77.2 40.5 3126.6 20% averill justice 73.6 35.5 2612.8 14% roush dunston 48.4 21.8 1055.12 1% -- below 25% should have no chance. below 50% i need some talking-into. only ron santo is above 75% and not in (7217, 82%). more on this all when i get some time. i posted a graph way back in a ranking thread that somebody should dig up for me. ...gah, i had to edit... used warp1 instead of warp3... knobby, fryman & anderson get quite the boost! but still should get no consideration, imo. i need to look into it, but i'm pretty sure the bottom 25% of the hall is populated mostly by those who got in via either the veterans committee and/or the presumption that finishing one's career with a .300 batting average must make you worthy of enshrinement no matter the quality of the peripheral stats.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I just looked it up to discover 40% of all my surnamed players in MLB history were Mets. Take that, biotches. yeah, but did they ever win a freakin' sterling award?

while no major leaguers have ever been blessed with my surname, there are currently 5 active minor leaguers, per baseballreference, with it, including one met - a sterling award winner at that! this year's dsl mets player of the year - pedro zapata

boo! i live for this.

the most they should give him is a two year deal, perhaps with a third year option. treat him, essentially as jon lieber w/ the yankees. build the rotation without him, and treat it as a bonus if he's ready by midseason. but i'm not sure he'd be my #1 priority...

fukudome?

i'm too busy being lazy... i'll get on this after the holiday, sorry.

david wright was the best player in the national league this past season, and increased his team's win totals moreso than any other player in the league. therefore he should be the nl mvp.

torrealba had a more better than his backup CERA than did lo duca. both had about the same CERA. CERA torrealba / iannetta -- 4.12 / 4.71 lo duca / castro -- 4.13 / 4.27 i don't know if that's worth anything... also, relative to his backup, opposing baserunners attempted fewer stolen bases against torrealba than lo duca. SBA/G torrealba / iannetta -- 0.71 / 0.74 lo duca / castro -- 0.82 / 0.79 but those are fairly slim differences there, i think....

Nymr83 wrote: does one take ballpark into effect while the other doesnt? torrealba played in the best hitter's park in the league while shea is a pitcher's park warp is adjusted for season: ]Statistics that have been adjusted for a single season are the best stats to use when you are only interested in that one season. In these, adjustments have been made to account for the home park and for the offensive level of the league as a whole. Hitters have an adjustment for not having to face their own team's pitchers; pitchers have a similar adjustment for not having to face their own hitters. Hitters in the AL since 1973 have a disadvantage in these statistics, since the league average is artificially inflated by the use of the DH and no adjustment is made for that. win shares, i believe, needn't be, as they represent a portion of a team's overall wins/production. ]Win Shares is a very complicated statistic that takes all the contributions a player makes toward his team�s wins and distills them into a single number that represents the number of wins contributed to the team, times three.

yorvit torrealba, 3.2 wins above replacement paul lo duca, 2.6 wins above replacement granted... yorvit torrealba, 6 win shares paul lo duca, 8 win shares so... who knows.