Centerfield

Ceets, I don't know why you continue to make reference to a roster crunch. There was no roster crunch. When you have room on your roster for Omar Quintanilla, there is decidedly no crunch! In 2014, Flores played more games at SS than any other position. Herrera had never played above single-A. His call up during the season straight from AA was somewhat of a surprise, but necessitated by the lack of depth at the infield positions. You know who became the Mets utility guy in 2014? Eric Campbell. A guy who didn't play defense as well as Justin Turner. Campbell posted a .680 OPS that year. 16 points lower than Turner's as a Met. Campbell's OPS plummeted from that point on. Turner, well, he went the other way... There is a reason people labeled this move as surprising, or a head scratcher. It's because it made no sense. And the lack of hustle? I would think you would bench a guy, talk to him, pull him from a game, do anything at least once before cutting him from the team. This wasn't a baseball move. Someone decided to be a dickhead. And when you do things for dickhead reasons, karma will come back to bite you.

Ceetar wrote: Barwis or not, does seem to be an argument that he wasn't going to become what he has with the Mets/within their system. two seasons of sub-par BB%, increasing Ks. No real sign of improvement. Was still a pretty silly move not to keep him for at least another year, versatility wise (it wasn't like he was _bad_) He also had bad defense numbers with the Mets that magically got better with the Dodgers. He's also one of those guys that really benefited from the juiced ball. There is no way to know what he would have been had we kept him. But if you believe his story, that he revamped his swing that winter, there is no reason to believe we wouldn't have seen similar results. Plus some guys just blossom late. Jose Bautista, Nelson Cruz. Even Jacob deGrom. The point is you don't just cut young, controllable players of value for no reason. Sure, most will not come back to haunt you, but unlike Murphy, this was an unforced error. Ceetar wrote: It really just seems like they believed Turner couldn't provide value at SS (which is funny since they played Flores there not a year later) and was too blocked at the other positions to be worthwhile. I don't think it's an unreasonable gamble to suggest Duda, Wright, Davis, Herrera, Flores, Murphy could more than adequately cover the rest of the infield and would be at least as good. Still should've kept him. but they chose others guys and he got lost in the roster crunch. There was no roster crunch. The 2014 Mets opened with Omar Quintanilla on their 25. You could have kept Turner along with all of those guys you mention. There is no baseball reason to make this move. This was personal.

Here's a thread from 2013: That Lazy No Good Justin Turner It's not as readable as it should be. It looks like we're having server issues where the style sheet isn't being recognized. We do apologize for any inconvenience. So the party line was that he was let go for lack of hustle. A trait that we, rabid fans of the team, did not see. Seriously, this has all the makings of a Jeff Wilpon Meddle Classic.

So really, what the fuck happened in 2013? I know it's easy to pile on now, with Turner hitting GW home runs in the World Series, but it was a foolish move then, and the Mets deserve all the criticism they are getting. An article at the time: http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2013/12/mets_non-tendered_justin_turner_after_frustration_over_effort.html The article reflects that this move was surprising. Turner was no all-star, but he hit 30 doubles in 117 games as a rookie. Injuries hampered him during the next two years, but in 2013, he filled in adequately at SS. His .280 average seemed Ruthian compared to Tejada and Omar Quintanilla. He had incredible versatility having started games at every infield position. I hated the move then. Mainly because I thought he played ok at SS, and thought he was our best chance to get any offense from that position. His swing looked good ("hitterish", and I know I also said that about Victor Diaz, but whatever). And he was only going to cost about $800k. I mean, there is simply no reason to let a guy like that go. It's not like he was blocking anybody. The article contains a quote from Sandy: "Don’t assume every non-tender is a function of money," Alderson said. Well then, what was it? Turner thinks it might have been Barwis. Mike FUCKING Barwis. https://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/world-series-ex-met-justin-turner-reinvented-himself-with-dodgers-1.14603499 But Turner had a plan. He intended to spend the winter of 2013 revamping his swing with Doug Latta, a private hitting instructor in his native Southern California. Turner had committed to going when the Mets suggested the workouts with Barwis. “They wanted me to pay for workouts,” Turner said. “I wanted to hit with my guy.” Sandy denies this. But his explanation sucks: Alderson denied that Turner’s decision to hit in California rather than sweat it out in Michigan played into his departure. “First I’ve heard that explanation,” he said. “There was never a Turner issue with Barwis.” With David Wright at third and Daniel Murphy at second, Alderson said, “Justin simply didn’t have a position with us.” That's bullshit. He was a perfect utility player. Cheap, versatile, and had the 6th highest OPS+ on the team. Not at all the type of player Sandy Alderson cuts. On the other hand, I can see the Barwis situation making sense. Everyone knows Barwis is Jeff Wilpon's guy. I can definitely see a scenario where Jeff urges all Mets to use him. Some say yes, some veterans say no. You can't force them to do anything. But when a young kid like Turner says no, Jeff gets pissed. "Who does he think he is?", Jeff says disgustedly, "Get that piece of shit Turner off my team NOW!!!" Yes, I'm saying this is all Jeff Wilpon's fault.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Bruce Jenner has also changed somewhat. Contest over.

And for the record, the runaway winner of the "I look nothing like my former self" contest is Wally Backman. The effect is lost a little because he remained with the organization, but compare young Wally to now Wally. Not a chance you recognize him. [fimg=700:17kf23s3]https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3RZj_aikX0U/WGrm4oGw4AI/AAAAAAAAOUc/EhiRFvccVx8rugLSbL-qQbzJKWwgur8cQCLcB/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/wally%2Bbackman%2B1986.jpeg[/fimg:17kf23s3] [fimg=700:17kf23s3]https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.12307325.1473742333!/httpImage/image.jpeg_gen/derivatives/landscape_1280/image.jpeg[/fimg:17kf23s3]

seawolf17 wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: You know? Some of these guys who I haven't really seen in years, I feel like if I ran into them on the street I'd be like DAMN I KNOW YOU FROM SOMEWHERE WHERE THE HELL DO I KNOW YOU? Like, in context, hey, that's Ray Knight. But if I saw him at the grocery store, I'd be staring at him awkwardly trying to figure out who he was. Whattaya lookin' at wolfboy? You got something to say to me? Let's go right now (starts swinging)

This is clearly my imagination but Jeff definitely looks like someone who didn't get his guy.

Oh Ray... https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2017/10/23/former-mlb-player-tv-analyst-ray-knight-charged-with-assault-battery/ It was caught on camera. It's a bit blurry but you get the idea.

I don't know. When I hear "Astro", I think green and gray.

(was meant to agree with the FK post two posts above!) I tend to agree with this. "Control" is perhaps too strong a word, but I think one of the big qualifications for manager was that the guy had to understand that Sandy's running the show, and he better be in line with the program.

Valadius wrote: I think I just may be able to let Beltran off the hook now. Seems pretty clear to me we were cursed that day. Beltran shouldn't be on the hook for anything. In that LCS Beltran hit .296 with 3 HR's and had a 1.054 OPS. Stole a base and played brilliant defense. He's as much to blame for the 2006 NLCS as Piazza is for the 2000 World Series.

Never heard of the guy, but I like the stuff I'm reading. Smart, young, personable. Willing to listen to analytics. Not full of himself. Also, I don't think Cory Kluber and Trevor Bauer are as devastating as some of the other elite pitchers. So getting that kind of performance out of them is something. Hopefully he can bring some of that success here. More than anything I'm glad this is done and over. Let's work on getting some players.

It's self aggrandizing. We the NY media are so in your face and intense only the strong can hack it! Barf. I'm happy to hear that Dusty is out. I never thought he was all that bright, but thought he was a good fit for that team. Had great success under him. I hope they re-hire Matt Williams. Not crazy at all about the remaining choices but admittedly know very little about them. I just wish it was over so we could focus on getting good players.

I think the Buster Posey rule definitely qualifies. So does Bob Uecker seats.

Chad Ochoseis wrote: I think we're using a really broad definition of "eponymous" - I wouldn't think of it as something that's simply named for someone, like Kiner's Korner, but of something that became so closely associated with a player that it took on his name naturally, like Tommy John surgery or Steve Blass disease. Yeah. This is more what I was going for. I think awards/places meant to honor someone don't count. So Shea Stadium and the Cy Young Award are off limits. I was testing theory that eponymous baseball terms are generally bad. Ruthian seems to be the exception. The Buster Posey rule I guess is kind of neutral. And to be eponymous, I meant that everyone who follows baseball (or even non-fans) should know what that means, and that it can apply to all players. Anyone in baseball can hit under the Mendoza line. Only Mets fans know what a Reyes Run is.

This crap I'm seeing about the Yankees likeable overachieving underdogs makes me hurl. How the fuck is the #2 payroll team in all of baseball an underdog? Fuckers.

Does anyone use "Steve Sax Syndrome" anymore? I remember hearing it when Chuck Knoblauch forgot to throw. Also "Pulling a Mariano" for when you murder neighborhood puppies and children.

How many can we think of? Inspired by the death thread... Tommy John Surgery Lou Gerhrigh's Disease The Mendoza Line (Mario Mendoza) Bob Uecker seats

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I haven't heard any recent speculation at all about Chip Hale or Bob Geren. Perhaps they're no longer being considered? Or maybe they never really were? According to Newsday, "sources" say that Hale and Geren are, in fact, not under consideration. Ausmus doesn't want to manage the Mets. Ventura doesn't want to manage at all. From what we can tell at this point, it looks like there are five, or perhaps six, actual candidates: Long, Cora, McEwing, Callaway, and Acta. Alomar's name hasn't come up recently, but I haven't seen where he's been ruled out. The current buzz seems to indicate that Long may be the front-runner. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I find I'm not thrilled about it for silliest of reasons. Like I've said before, I think I want a smart guy. And Kevin Long doesn't seem smart to me. I mean, I haven't heard anything about him being smart, but I also haven't heard that he isn't smart. But for me, he doesn't look smart. Something about him. So I find myself less than thrilled. I told you it was silly.

They're going to win it all. That's just how this season is going to end. Then Noah Syndergaard will be deported. Fuck 2017.

Gotta applaud BG's sense of duty. This was a shit year. I can't imagine organizing all of this with such shitty source material. I've always felt a little bad for guys like Gary Apple. Real Mets fans that are forced to conduct themselves professionally and host a post-game show after excruciating losses. We can turn off the TV, curse and rant, and drink. Those guys can't do that. Thanks BG for setting this up. I'm looking forward to hearing how Maja spent her year.

I have a bad feeling about this.

I don't think I'm really following your argument. Smoking increases your risk of lung cancer. I'm not sure why this is controversial. This is why life insurance companies, who make their money gauging likelihoods, check whether or not you smoke. If insurance companies were to insure winning, one of the factors they would consider is payroll.

If you smoke in 2018, you have a higher risk of cancer than you would if you didn't. This applies whether or not you smoked before. If you do not smoke in 2018, you have a lower risk of cancer than you would if you didn't. This applies whether or not you smoked before. Juan Lagares is a nonsmoker and gets lung cancer. Lorenzo Cain smokes two packs a day but is cancer free. This example does not make the two prior statements untrue.